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Makaitoshi SaGa/Romancing SaGa/SaGa Frontier |OT|

I'm a huge fan of the franchise, and since there isn't much love here on GAF, I figured we could use a thread to discuss it.

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Makaitoshi SaGa/The Final Fantasy Legend
Platform: Gameboy/Wonderswan Color/Cell Phone

This groundbreaking first game follows the adventures of a small band of adventurers as they explore a tower situated in the middle of their world. It is said that whoever can reach the top of the tower will reach Paradise. However, the Tower is a gateway to other Worlds. In order to reach the top of the tower, you must explore those worlds and solve their problems.

What really set this game apart for me was the fact you can pick your own party. Your choices? Humans, which have well rounded stats. Mutants/Espers, which are capable of learning magic but are physically weaker than Humans. And then Monsters. Monsters do not earn stat increases from battle. Instead, they can occasionally eat the meat of fallen monsters, triggering a transformation that makes them stronger.

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SaGa 2: Hihou Densetsu/Final Fantasy Legend 2
Originally released GameBoy, remade for DS

This second game starts off with your dad bidding you farewell as he jumps out the window. Some odd years have passed and he hasn't returned. Determined to find him, you embark on a journey to find him. Along the way, you get caught up in a conspiracy. Several powerful figures are competing to find magical artifacts called Magi, so that they can become New Gods. Once again, your adventure takes you through several different worlds.

Like SaGa 1, SaGa 2 also lets you pick your party members. However, now you can have a robot on your party. Robots cannot learn magic. However, any item you equip on them gets repaired when you stay at an inn.
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In 2009, the game was remade for DS. It was given a visual upgrade, but plays almost exactly the same, with the exception that random encounters were removed in favor enemies being able to be seen on the map. Sadly, the game was never released in America.

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Jikuu no Hasha SaGa 3/ Final Fantasy Legend III
Originally released on Gameboy, remade for the DS

This final game in the Gameboy trilogy tells the story of a group of children sent back in time to prevent a great flood from destroying the world. It is quite the departure from the other two games. An entirely separate team developed SaGa 3, which would go on to make Final Fantasy Mystic Quest. Unlike the first two games, you have a set party you must use. Weapons no longer have durability as well.

Like SaGa 2, this game was later remade for DS, though it also never was released stateside
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Romancing SaGa
Platform: Super Famicom, Remade for PS2

The first Super Famicom release tells the story of of eight adventurers who must stop the revival of an evil god named Saruin from reviving. This game stands out in that the game has an open world, a new concept for JRPGs back in the early 90s. You pick one of the 8 characters. Each one has their own starting point and special sidequests pertaining exclusively to them. This encourages multiple playthroughs.

The game was remade for the Playstation 2 in 2004 and is quite different from its original release. While the scenario and characters are the same, the game play is COMPLETELY different. Systems introduced in later games were placed here, such as the awesome glimmer system.

Plus it has one of the best theme songs ever:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjKD77dwyQY

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Romancing SaGa 2
Super Famicom

Romancing SaGa 2 is a multi-generation story about the Royal family of Avalon and their war against 7 legendary heroes who have become corrupted by their anger after having been imprisoned in another dimension.

Like RS1, the game is pretty much an open scenario. You can fight the villains in the game in any order you wish. Furthermore, at certian points in the game, you will be forced to pick an heir. Your heir inherits any abilities their parent had.

RomancingSaGa2-8.png


The game also features some pretty rocking battle themes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gS7GAoEcbyk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eZGnTuBHGg

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Romancing SaGa 3
Platform: Super Famicom

Romancing SaGa 3's plot centers around a phenomena called the "Death Ecilpse". Every 300 years, this eclipse occurs. During that time all new life on the planet dies off. However, eventually one singular baby is born with immense powers, who then grows up to either be the next Demon King or the planet's savior. 16 years have passed and the world is still waiting to see if the child born during the eclipse is either a demon or a savior...

Like RS1, you have eight people you choose from. The plot is largely the same though there are some scenes that play out differently or are seen from a different perspective depending on which character you are, especially early on.

Of the three Super Famicom games, this is the only one to get an English fan translation. To this day, Romancing SaGa 1 and 2 SFC are both only in Japanese.

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SaGa Frontier
Playstation

SaGa Frontier features 7 different scenarios that weave around each other but are largely independent. Storie include:
- a young man becoming a Kamen Rider-esque super hero in order to get revenge against a criminal organization that murdered his father.
- an arrogant mage must track down and defeat his older brother in order to learn the ultimate magic
- A young women is injured in an accident and rescued by a powerful Mystic. She awakens 12 years later only to find out she is now a Half-Mystic. Desperate to escape her benefactor's help, she must come to terms with her new powers
- A famous model takes the fall for her boyfriend's murder. She must escape prison and track down her boyfriend's killer
- A robot is reconstructed by a young boy. It attempts to remember what its true mission is.
- A monster is sent to the world of the humans in order to recover a set of magical rings

The game has a sort of weird eclectic mix of settings. Some are super science fiction-y. While others are more contemporary or fantasy-based. It doesn't seem like it should mix, but it does.

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SaGa Frontier 2
Platform: Playstation

The second entry in the series tells the story of two men as their fates become intertwined in mysterious artifact called The Egg. One of the men is a disgraced prince who is exiled when it is discovered he has no anima, a sort of spiritual energy. The other story is that of a young treasure hunter who is trying to uncover the cause of his parent's death.

The game is unique in that it has two battle systems. The first battle system is similar to other games in the franchise. Your party faces the enemy party and you select your attacks from a menu much like you would any other JRPG. The other battle system is a one-on-one battle system where you pick a string of basic commands like "smash" or "cut". If you issue the commands in the right order, you will unleash powerful skills.

SaGa Frontier has the best graphics on the playstation one, by the way.

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Unlimited SaGa
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Most fans of the series like to pretend this game doesn't exist. I personally think it's "okay" but wouldn't want any other game in the franchise to follow this game's direction. It plays sort of like a table top RPG. The battle system is pretty bad though. It relies too much on its roulette system. It IS pretty to look at though, and Hamauzu really did a bang up job on the soundtrack.

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Riposte

Member
I remember, coming off of Final Fantasy 7 (I think), being so confused and overwhelmed by SaGa Frontier as a young teen. It was like a JRPG overload. Think I'll play it again.
 

lupin23rd

Member
I remember seeing the SFC games in various magazines when I was a kid and thinking thy looked like more Final Fantasy (which was a good thing back then).

It actually wasn't until the last couple of months that I decided to get back into collecting SFC games that I realized they were a bit different an just recently picked these up, so when I get back home and find a system to play them on, I'm looking forward to actually trying them.
 
For me, I first got into the series when I was a kid, probably 8 or 9. I had borrowed Final Fantasy Legend 2 from a friend. I loved the heck out of that game.

SaGa Frontier also has an especially strong place in my heart. I bought it used from Electronic Boutique. The cashier, who was familiar with the game, warned me against buying it but I did so anyway. Unfortunately, the disc was messed up so I couldn't get pasted the beginning of the game. Without going into details, all of my PS1 games were stolen from me EXCEPT my defective SaGa Frontier. I was so desperate to play the damn game that I kept trying to play it. Amazingly one day it actually got past the part it always got stuck at and I was able to play through it.

I eventually bought a new copy off ebay.
 

Mandoric

Banned
FF Legend was--still is--amazing played mutants/monsters only as a proto-loot game. The setting was incredible for its time too.
 
D

Deleted member 57681

Unconfirmed Member
I tried to play Final Fantasy Legend countless times when I was a kid. I just didn't get it, so I traded it in.
I regret that now :(


SaGa Frontier 2 holds a special place in my heart though.
 

Kuro Madoushi

Unconfirmed Member
I ported RS2 and played it on my SNES. I got all the way to the final boss and could never beat him. I didn't know what the fuck I was doing since I couldn't and still can't read Japanese, but it was a fun game. When the hell was there an English remake?!?!?!?!
 

Tizoc

Member
Why not just call it 'SaGa Series |OT|' or the like?
Anyways, this along with various Nintendo titles are in my ever increasing franchises to play backlog @_@.
 

Coxswain

Member
I remember, coming off of Final Fantasy 7 (I think), being so confused and overwhelmed by SaGa Frontier as a young teen. It was like a JRPG overload. Think I'll play it again.

This was my initial reaction too, having played it way back when the only RPGs I was into were as straightforward as Final Fantasy. I couldn't figure it out at all, and really ended up hating it.

I ended up going back to it a few years ago, and I ended up really liking it. A big part of that is that each character's story is basically its own separate 6-8 hour RPG inside of the same world. For me, it ended up scratching this itch, where if I wanted a quick RPG fix, I could play one from start to finish in one or two solid evenings, but I also wasn't left wishing that there were more to the game, because there's seven different scenarios.


I haven't had much luck getting into any other games in the franchise, but it's something that I mean to get around to one of these days(years).
 

Suirrad

Member
Saga Frontier is one of my favorite games and brings back so many memories. Like someone above, i too was overwhelmed as a youngster at how much there was to do.

Some of the best music any any RPG I've play aswell.
 

Ourobolus

Banned
SaGa Frontier 2 was amazing, shame I never ended up beating the final boss (holy hell he's ridiculous).

Romancing SaGa was awesome as well. I kinda wish the Super Famicom versions were translated, I'd love to try them (I know RSaGa 3 is, but the concept of 2 intrigues me).

Unlimited Saga blows. I've tried again and again, but it's just awful. But that soundtrack...

I should try SaGa Frontier one of these days.
 
The original SaGa Frontier is such a nostalgic title for me. I played the hell out of it, and remember being so disappointed that SaGa Frontier 2 ruined what was great about the first one.
 

Bwahahahaha. So apt!

Anyway, Megalosaro, (huh, didn't know you were on GAF) you forgot The Last Remnant.

Also, I don't know about most SaGa fans dismissing Unlimited. I know most non-SaGa fans did, but I think it's a pretty solid game. The learning curve has a steep entry cost, but if you can get how the blacksmithing and panel systems work, the game is pretty solid. (I think part of the difficulty is that the manual was terrible for explaining how things worked, and that the systems in this Saga, more than any other Saga, are so deeply interconnected that you really have to get almost all of them to be able to plan how your party is going to work.)

I'm also looking forward to the Romancing SaGa 2 fan translation.
 
How was Minstrel's Song received compared to the others in the series. I still have a copy of it that I never ended up playing much.
 

Valentus

Member
SaGa Frontier set the bar in boss battles' music. One of the games with the best OST in battle music.

Romancing SaGa 3 and SaGa Frontier are the best in the SaGa metaverse IMO.
 

Ourobolus

Banned
How was Minstrel's Song received compared to the others in the series. I still have a copy of it that I never ended up playing much.

I'm not sure of the overall reception, but I enjoyed my playthrough (I only did one, Albert's). There are some hidden mechanics that determine what quests are available when (based on number of battles fought), but overall it's pretty solid. I'm a fan of the glimmer system, and the game proved to have some decent challenge here and there.
 

MoogPaul

Member
It's always kind of sad to me that The Last Remnant always gets cut out from these discussions just because it has a different name.
 

batbeg

Member
I've only played Final Fantasy Legends III, which I hear a lot of people call a bad game, especially in comparison to the others. I don't know, but I loved it as an eleven year old :)

If we were to count The Last Remnant, then yes, I absolutely adore it. I wish Square-Enix would make this series more accessible since I've always wanted to try it following TLR... Are the Saga Frontier games available on PSN by any chance?
 
I still need to beat Romancing SaGa, SaGa Frontier (only beat Blue's story), and SaGa Frontier 2.

And get back into The Last Remnant, which is basically a SaGa game.
 

cuilan

Member
I've really enjoyed every Kawazu game I've played so far.

One of my favorites that people don't really talk about is the Wonderswan-exclusive Wild Card. It's a very SaGa-ish dungeon-crawler that's entirely card-based. I've spent literally hundreds of hours on it across multiple save files.
 

Necron

Member
I always felt it lived in the shadows a bit compared to Square's other output. I want this series to make a comeback.

The graphical art style from SaGa Frontier 2 is fantastic.
 

RangerBAD

Member
SaGa: the games I can never seem to beat. Strangely, I keep trying though.

I always felt it lived in the shadows a bit compared to Square's other output. I want this series to make a comeback.

The graphical art style from SaGa Frontier 2 is fantastic.

That drew me to the game too. That and the beautiful use of the piano. Hamauzu at his best.
 

Varg

Banned
I remember playing saga frontier as a child and not knowing what the hell I was doing or where to go half the time. Loved every second of it though !!!!!! XD
 

Vamphuntr

Member
I love Saga Frontier a lot but I have a hard time calling it a good game and recommending it to people. I really like to replay it and I enjoy the mechanics a lot but it's not a game you recommend to people. It really seems like the game is incomplete compared to RS3.

Story wise it seems they writer ran out of steam or (and?) time after having written Red, Riki and T-260G's chapters. These either have unique areas/plot dungeons or at least creative challenges and an interesting plot.

With Asellus they started to show fatigue, her only unique areas are the Facinataru's castle and the labyrinth and most of her chapter involve going around randomly doing the generic sidequests while hoping to get ambushed by the bosses that will move the plot forward. That's right, you have to run around the areas hoping you will trigger the next boss battle. You can spend a long time roaming while getting stuck and if it's the first scenario you play you will be yelling at your tv.

With Emelia they started rehashing some areas from Red's story and using the generic sidequests as story dungeons to pad it out. The last boss has nothing to do with the story at all.

Blue's chapter is probably one of the worst. The objective is simply to collect the magic gifts from the sidequests to trigger the boss battle leading to the final dungeon. Definitely the worst ending in a videogame ever. If you dare call that an ending.

And Lute... Well, it's about more or less grinding then go beat the final boss since you can reach him 5 minutes after starting his chapter.

It seems like they wanted to make 7 totally unique scenarios but realized it wouldn't be possible at some point during development.

Towns are a step down from RS3. In RS3 you had vignettes in each town and they were really well done like the two robins, the two mages fighting each other, the aurora borealis and so on. In Saga Frontier most towns are mostly just there to buy things or do a sidequest for the rune or arcane gifts. The best vignette are probably the mermaid in the manor and the sidequests where you get drunk in the swamp but they are really short.

The combo system is nice but you don't really get unique abilities or animations from it. There were actual unique combination spells in RS3...
 

SkyOdin

Member
I am a big fan of the SaGa games. SaGa Frontier is one of my favorite PS1 titles. It just has so many gameplay options and team customization options.

Romancing SaGa for the PS2 was pretty good too. It lacks the re-playability of SaGa Frontier, since it has a smaller pool of recruitable characters and each individual playthrough takes much longer, but it has a really interesting world that feels like it has some history to it.

I am still really bummed that we never got the DS remakes of SaGa 2 and 3. I liked those games on the Gameboy, and I want to play them with the system stuff introduced in the later SaGa games.
 
^ There was a fan translation done for the NDS version of SaGa 2 and 3 seems to still be in the works.

I am playing through Emilia's scenario in SaGa Frontier right now. Saddens me that we may never see another new entry in NA.
 

randomkid

Member
My experience with this franchise is kind of funny.

Eager to play more Final Fantasy after beating Final Fantasy II (SNES), I notice that there are two Final Fantasy games on the Game Boy available at Sears: Final Fantasy Legend 3 and Final Fantasy Adventure. I choose FFA.

A couple years later, after reading previews in EGM and Gamefan, I decide that I must play Romancing Saga 3. My friends pool together money for my birthday and are prepared to order it for $140 or something. At the last minute, I change my mind and decide to put the money towards getting a Playstation instead.

A couple years after that, I decide to give Saga Frontier a shot by renting it. The nonlinear structure overwhelms me and I pass on the purchase.

The sheer visual prowess of Saga Frontier 2 convinces me to get the game day 1, finally a purchase! I love it.

Feeling very good about this franchise, I pick up Unlimited Saga day 1. I no longer feel very good about this franchise.

I come close to picking up Romancing Saga PS2, but end up holding off for reasons.

So, seems like it's been lots of fits and starts and almosts for me with Saga. These days, I want to give Saga Frontier another shot when it shows up on PSN, and one day I will play the fan translations of Romancing Saga 2 and 3. I tried Unlimited Saga again a couple years ago just to confirm and yup, this is not the way the series should have ended.

I pretend that Emperor Saga doesn't exist.
 

Terra_Ex

Member
This thread has convinced me I need to play more of the SaGa games, only played the PS2 remake of Romancing SaGa so far (loved it aside from the last boss) and some of Unlimited SaGa, it seems like there might be something of value in Unlimited SaGa but like Romancing & Last Remnant you seem to have to decipher the game mechanics as you go and hope for the best, in my experience luck/RNG weighed into the equation very heavily with regards to learning new skills. I especially liked how plot progression worked in Romancing SaGa, with certain quests pushing the plotline forward, somewhat reminiscent of Valkyrie Profile's system.

It seems the series is difficult to get into due in no small part to how it masks its mechanics, I recall struggling with Last Remnant until I made the connection that it was essentially a SaGa game, then things fell into place. I even had a brief stint where I got quite into Unlimited Saga but then I think the game screwed me over in some way and I ditched it.

I believe have SaGa Frontier 1 & 2 sat on a shelf somewhere so I'll probably start with them.
 

SkyOdin

Member
I especially liked how plot progression worked in Romancing SaGa, with certain quests pushing the plotline forward, somewhat reminiscent of Valkyrie Profile's system.
That is what I thought as well at first, but I was wrong. Romancing SaGa actually uses an unconventional system where time progresses based on how many battles you have fought in. There are 22 Event Ranks, with your Event Rank increasing once every 10-13 battles or so. Hitting Event Rank 20 opens the endgame and the quests needed to face the final boss. Quests will open and disappear based on your current Event Rank.

Yeah, I have found that SaGa games are generally more strategy guide and FAQ reliant than other RPGs. However, that also means they tend to have deeper and more interesting mechanics than many other RPGs. If you are going to play SaGa Frontier, I highly recommend taking a look at a guide for using Monsters. They are the most unintuitive and complicated of the four character types, but apparently can become freakishly powerful. Feel free to just experiment and learn them on your own if you want, but don't overlook them because they seem weak at first.
 

randomkid

Member
Also can't believe no one in this thread has said anything yet but Tomomi Kobayashi is one of this industry's greats.

FRwceqL.jpg


Her art is honestly one of my favorite things about this franchise.
 

oddigy

Member
Also can't believe no one in this thread has said anything yet but Tomomi Kobayashi is one of this industry's greats.

Her art is honestly one of my favorite things about this franchise.

Yes. I own two of her artbooks. When I got my copy of the SaGa Frontier soundtrack years ago, I spent a very long time gaping at the incredible character art inside the included booklet. I also own a copy of Unlimited SaGa Limited Edition (J) because I had to have the cardboard artbook-thing. Aaaaah, she has a website. http://www.kobayashi-tomomi.com/
 

Jarnet87

Member
It's quite surprising that Saga Frontier 1 and 2 aren't on the US PSN. Kawazu is pretty high up, he probably just hates America. There are games that sold far less copies on the PSN, kind of a shame.

Frontier 1 & 2 and Unlimited are beautiful looking games, the Romancing Remake not so much. It is nightmare inducing with those god awful Thunderbird puppet looking characters, whoever designed that was on drugs.
 

bluemax

Banned
I played the crap out of FFL as a kid. It was the first game I bought with my Gameboy. I played the other two on emulator but none of them had the same impact after the first.

I tried playing RS3 on emulator as a kid but never got anywhere, I think the patch wasn't 100% then and I got confused/lost. I wish the others got translation patches.

I think I tried playing SaGa Frontier 2 on PS1 but never got into it. That art is pretty hot though.

Just listened to the 7 Heroes Battle theme, totally digging it.
 
D

Deleted member 20920

Unconfirmed Member
I love Saga Frontier a lot but I have a hard time calling it a good game and recommending it to people. I really like to replay it and I enjoy the mechanics a lot but it's not a game you recommend to people. It really seems like the game is incomplete compared to RS3.

Story wise it seems they writer ran out of steam or (and?) time after having written Red, Riki and T-260G's chapters. These either have unique areas/plot dungeons or at least creative challenges and an interesting plot.

With Asellus they started to show fatigue, her only unique areas are the Facinataru's castle and the labyrinth and most of her chapter involve going around randomly doing the generic sidequests while hoping to get ambushed by the bosses that will move the plot forward. That's right, you have to run around the areas hoping you will trigger the next boss battle. You can spend a long time roaming while getting stuck and if it's the first scenario you play you will be yelling at your tv.

With Emelia they started rehashing some areas from Red's story and using the generic sidequests as story dungeons to pad it out. The last boss has nothing to do with the story at all.

Blue's chapter is probably one of the worst. The objective is simply to collect the magic gifts from the sidequests to trigger the boss battle leading to the final dungeon. Definitely the worst ending in a videogame ever. If you dare call that an ending.

And Lute... Well, it's about more or less grinding then go beat the final boss since you can reach him 5 minutes after starting his chapter.

It seems like they wanted to make 7 totally unique scenarios but realized it wouldn't be possible at some point during development.

Towns are a step down from RS3. In RS3 you had vignettes in each town and they were really well done like the two robins, the two mages fighting each other, the aurora borealis and so on. In Saga Frontier most towns are mostly just there to buy things or do a sidequest for the rune or arcane gifts. The best vignette are probably the mermaid in the manor and the sidequests where you get drunk in the swamp but they are really short.

The combo system is nice but you don't really get unique abilities or animations from it. There were actual unique combination spells in RS3...

8 actually. There was supposed to be another scenarios staring Fuse. And they ran out of time/budget and had to cute away plot from some of the scenarios as well. It'll be good if they actually remake this game.
 

Mandoric

Banned
It's quite surprising that Saga Frontier 1 and 2 aren't on the US PSN. Kawazu is pretty high up, he probably just hates America. There are games that sold far less copies on the PSN, kind of a shame.

Frontier 1 & 2 and Unlimited are beautiful looking games, the Romancing Remake not so much. It is nightmare inducing with those god awful Thunderbird puppet looking characters, whoever designed that was on drugs.

It wouldn't amaze me if SF1 in particular is in the same hell as Suikoden 2--can't pass cert due to bugs, can't sell anywhere near enough to justify a fix.
 

RedBoot

Member
8 actually. There was supposed to be another scenarios staring Fuse. And they ran out of time/budget and had to cute away plot from some of the scenarios as well. It'll be good if they actually remake this game.

Yeah, Frontier is massively unfinished, and there's quite a bit about it out there if you dig through the game's debug mode and read up on some of the info scattered about.

I actually felt Asellus's scenario was one of the most realized, next to Red and T-260, but most of the cut content you can read about is from her story. So if she was that unfinished, then what did they intend for people like Emelia, Blue, and Lute?

But yeah, there's tons of areas in the game that have no purpose at all, like the Bio Lab and Furdo's Workshop. My dream this-will-never-happen game is a remake of Frontier with all the intended content restored.
 

Goldrush

Member
Got to the last dungeon in both scenario in SFII. Found out I have no clue how either battle systems work and got stuck as I can't grind my way out.
 
Oh man, that must have sucked. Yeah, SF2 is a game where you can stumble through it without really understanding how it works but then you get the end of the game and can't beat it because of a Point of No Return.
 

randomkid

Member
I thought the last fight in Gustav's scenario in SF2 was one of those strategy game battles where it's impossible to grind anyways? I remember trying it out like 10 times before I figured out how to beat it (relying a little on luck too).
 
I love the saga series. When I found out how unfinished Saga Frontier was I had to get the gameshark running. On sheer potential after digging around with gameshark it could've been a really great game.

Although personally, Romancing Saga 3 is easily in my top RPG's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEqenMyjVRQ

That opening theme has just as much impact on me as hearing the FF Crystal Prelude. And ALL the Saga battle musics are godtier.
 
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