Support NeoGAF

[Dalek]

I just signed the new whitehouse petition to have the Department of Justice review of all legal institutions involved in the conviction and appeal of Steven Avery.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pe...onviction-and-appeals-concerning-steven-avery

 

[gamz]

I just signed the new whitehouse petition to have the Department of Justice review of all legal institutions involved in the conviction and appeal of Steven Avery.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pe...onviction-and-appeals-concerning-steven-avery

Thanks for this and signed!

 

[Dalek]

The Federal government cannot pardon Steven, but they can review the case for any shenanigans.

 

[FlyinJ]

The Federal government cannot pardon Steven, but they can review the case for any shenanigans.

Like everyone is saying, him being guilty or not is beside the point of the absolute gross incompetence and corruption carried out by the sherrif's department and the DA.

The one thing that needs to happen is an investigation into these guys and bringing them to task for their actions.

I can only imagine how many other cases they handled in a similar fashion.

 

[Socreges]

The cops essentially manipulated Brendan to make up a story they would be satisfied with before they would let him go. Thus holding him for nearly four hours. The story Brendan made up was from a book he was reading.

The interrogations of Brendan are worthless to anyone that is thoughtfully evaluating this case. I'm sorry you feel like they are some bastion of crucial evidence but they are most certainly not.

Not to mention that they largely went after Brendan as they did, and with the imaginative horror that they did, because of his cousin's report. ie, her lies based on what she'd heard in the news.

 

[figadapaura]

I have absolutely no problem believing the MCSD would frame Avery even if they had evidence pointing towards another culprit. They did in 1985.

This case stopped them being punished for that one. Ridiculous.

 

[arts&crafts]

Its funny, after watching this I watched The Jinx last 2 days and..

JINX SPOILERS

Spoiler

It is the complete opposite end of the justice system. He admits to doing at least one of the murders "by accident" but the jury finds him innocent of the "murder" charge so he goes free. I dont understand, if you get charged with 1st degree murder and you claim it was an accident you cant get charged with manslaughter after? Isn't that new evidence? WTF! Both cases are so dumb.

 

[The Beard]

Except according to Brendan's own testimony, the cops didn't feed him the story. A book he read did.

Brendan reading a 500 page novel? Please. I don't believe anything he said from those interviews. He thought it was some sort of game or something, "what can I say that will make these fuckers leave me alone so I can go play some PlayStation 2?"

Google "Brendan Dassey transcripts". Read transcripts 1 through 3, in that order. See how Brendan offers up no real info. See how the investigators feed him every detail about the case, and see how Brendan either says "yeah", or just parrots whatever they're telling him.

 

[mackattk]

Its funny, after watching this I watched The Jinx last 2 days and..

JINX SPOILERS

Spoiler

It is the complete opposite end of the justice system. He admits to doing at least one of the murders "by accident" but the jury finds him innocent of the "murder" charge so he goes free. I dont understand, if you get charged with 1st degree murder and you claim it was an accident you cant get charged with manslaughter after? Isn't that new evidence? WTF! Both cases are so dumb.

JINX SPOILERS

Spoiler

I thought they framed it as self-defense... Still. at least he got 3 years for mutilation/improper disposal of a body that the doc didn't over... What I don't understand is that he was never questioned about what happened to the head...and was there any evidence that the victim was shoot (assumingly) in the stomach/chest/torso?

 

[arts&crafts]

JINX SPOILERS

Spoiler

I thought they framed it as self-defense... Still. at least he got 3 years for mutilation/improper disposal of a body that the doc didn't over... What I don't understand is that he was never questioned about what happened to the head...and was there any evidence that the victim was shoot (assumingly) in the stomach/chest/torso?

Spoiler

I think you are right, it was "self defense" and he accidently killed him after getting the gun or something. Either way the argument is stupid and the facts dont support it. Also since it is in Texas I think you can get away with a lot more if you frame it as self defense or its my right!Oh well, it really makes you think about the justice system either way

 

[Epix]

The Federal government cannot pardon Steven, but they can review the case for any shenanigans.

Correct, nor can the President, although he can be pardoned by Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker.

 

[Vincent Alexander]

I just signed the new whitehouse petition to have the Department of Justice review of all legal institutions involved in the conviction and appeal of Steven Avery.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pe...onviction-and-appeals-concerning-steven-avery

Signed!

 

[aerts1js]

Correct, nor can the President, although he can be pardoned by Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker.

Pretty sure the governor refuses to even watch the documentary.

 

[FlyinJ]

[/b]

Brendan reading a 500 page novel? Please. I don't believe anything he said from those interviews. He thought it was some sort of game or something, "what can I say that will make these fuckers leave me alone so I can go play some PlayStation 2?"

Google "Brendan Dassey transcripts". Read transcripts 1 through 3, in that order. See how Brendan offers up no real info. See how the investigators feed him every detail about the case, and see how Brendan either says "yeah", or just parrots whatever they're telling him.

Don't bother with Ethan. He has been direct linked the transcripts twice before in this thread and then he disappears, only to pop up again later with the same exact arguments about the testimony.

It's really annoying. I'm pretty sure he's trolling.

 

[Princess Carl]

My general take based on the show and surrounding reactions:
- Steven is probably guilty
- The cops and Sheriff's department involved were absolutely crooked
- Some of the allegations of evidence planting or manipulation are probably true
- Not clear about reasonable doubt besides that
- Brendan is probably not guilty of the murder or rape, but possibly guilty of some sort of accomplice after the fact
- First defence attorney for Brendan seemed comically incompetent, maybe even to the point of professional sanction.

I think the show is very good although the editing could have been tighter (this as a 6-7 episode show would have been truly stunning--the middle, around episodes 5-8, when it was mostly court stuff, could have been trimmed). My overall impression wasn't so much about the case at hand, which seemed like a somewhat normal murder prosecution with corrupt cops.

In terms of petitioning and getting angry, I think the bigger cause should not be Steven Avery. Almost the entire Avery family, as pictured in the documentary, appear to have moderate to severe cognitive-intellectual impairments. I'm not arguing that dumb people ought to get away with murder, but seeing Brendan especially be totally unaware of what was happening to him and unable to work through basic life situations is just tragic. It made me think of an experience watching someone at the social security administration trying to get her benefits increased because she had "adopted" (not legally) a kid whose mother had "just left him with her". She had great difficulty explaining the basic details of what was going on or answering any of the questions. It just made me think that we have a lot of systems set up to assume basic adult competence, and people who fall short of that (for whatever reason) are paralyzed when dealing with bureaucracy, even when the consequence is death or a ruined life. It's kinda shocking. A fair system would have not only afforded the kid a defence attorney during questioning, but also provided his family with significant resources to navigate the judicial system. I just came away really disgusted at that most of all.

I don't really see this at all frankly.

You mention how developmentally disabled the family is, but then the cavalcade of conflicting pieces of evidence and events doesn't throw up red flags? For me, the press conference was the moment I felt personally that they were orchestrating a massive social campaign to convict stephen before the trial every began. That level of repugnant behavior and social engineering should have the ended of the investigation for the state of Wisconsin right there. It screams orchestrating a conviction.

Going by what we saw, literally every piece of evidence used to convict stephen, was something that was framed very specific to the narrative but then completely useless and misleading once you take even 1 step back and try to look at it as a complete event that took place in reality. It all fell apart or fell back on the sheriffs department for it's origin.

Then there's the savant/moron dichotomy of every single piece of important evidence they use. That was a point where it should dawn that this is more the behavior of 1 or more people "discovering" evidence(at completely different dates also) at it's most convenient for the person "discovering" it.

• 
  The car versus the murder scene: how it was handled by steven
  The murder scene versus the back of the car
  The murder scene versus the decision to burn in locally, but then also be burning it somewhere else, move it around a bunch, and then bring it back, but not all of it.

etc.

The degree that things steadily and rapidly moved in one singular direction despite the numerous red flags and outright law breaking that took place, speaks to a department completely confident in it's invulnerability.

And historically speaking? The behavior isn't outlandish in the slightest!

 

[y2dvd]

I just signed the new whitehouse petition to have the Department of Justice review of all legal institutions involved in the conviction and appeal of Steven Avery.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pe...onviction-and-appeals-concerning-steven-avery

Annnnd signed. Those crooks needs to be taken down.

 

[Daffy Duck]

This whole thing is so outlandish that I would not rule out something utterly fantastically ridiculous happening in years to come that would blow it all up again and probably end up freeing them both.

How they convicted Brendan ill never know.

 

[Deadstar]

Can someone explain to me why Brendan's defense attorney was doing all of these shady things and trying to make him confess to something he did not (allegedly) do? Why would the defense attorney's first choice be a plea bargain when he can instead argue that Brendan was coerced into saying the things he said and that the real story is what he wrote on the piece of paper?

Also, why would the judge deny the ability to have a second trial? It is clear that the defense attorney does not have Brendan's best judgment in mind, especially when he sent him to some investigator who coerced him to sign paperwork that fits the investigators narrative? It's just wrong. How does the judge not understand that?

 

[Homeboyd]

Can someone explain to me why Brendan's defense attorney was doing all of these shady things and trying to make him confess to something he did not (allegedly) do? Why would the defense attorney's first choice be a plea bargain when he can instead argue that Brendan was coerced into saying the things he said and that the real story is what he wrote on the piece of paper?

To get the conviction on SA that the state desperately wanted. He never was on Brendan's side.

 

[Dalek]

Can someone explain to me why Brendan's defense attorney was doing all of these shady things and trying to make him confess to something he did not (allegedly) do? Why would the defense attorney's first choice be a plea bargain when he can instead argue that Brendan was coerced into saying the things he said and that the real story is what he wrote on the piece of paper?

Also, why would the judge deny the ability to have a second trial? It is clear that the defense attorney does not have Brendan's best judgment in mind, especially when he sent him to some investigator who coerced him to sign paperwork that fits the investigators narrative? It's just wrong. How does the judge not understand that?

It was a set up. Brendan was used as a pawn to convict Steven.

 

[Deadstar]

It was a set up. Brendan was used as a pawn to convict Steven.

This is exactly what I thought after watching what I've seen so far from the documentary, but then it seems that the judge was in on it too. It just seems unbelievable that there are so many people that want Avery in jail. I guess when you think about what a 36 million dollar lawsuit would cost, it's a lot cheaper to pay off everyone for less to do your evil bidding and make that stop. It's too bad that the Avery family couldn't continue the lawsuit without Steven on behalf of their son.

One thing I find odd about the victims brothers are that they are so sure it's Steven. They should want to find the person who killed their sister, regardless of who it is. They seem so sure it's Steven when they don't have a clue. Too many things don't add up. I find it hard to believe that the brothers didn't think something fishy was going on.

 

[Homeboyd]

It begins.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

It begins.

Awesome. Finally some good news.

 

[bebop242]

I'm only half way though this and completely floored with the amount of fuckery that went on in this case. All evidence and testimonial stuff has something shady behind it. Not personally convinced Steven Avery didn't do the murder, but how the hell did they get the conviction? Boggles my mind.

 

[Homeboyd]

http://www.kathleentzellner.com

MCSD is toast

edit: holy shit at these settlements: http://www.kathleentzellner.com/verdicts-settlements

 

[Deadstar]

http://www.kathleentzellner.com

MCSD is toast

Now this is very interesting....I hope the truth comes out and justice is served.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

I'm only half way though this and completely floored with the amount of fuckery that went on in this case. All evidence and testimonial stuff has something shady behind it. Not personally convinced Steven Avery didn't do the murder, but how the hell did they get the conviction? Boggles my mind.

I'm not 100% convinced of his innocence either, but there is definitely enough reasonable doubt that he never should've been convicted.

 

[Kuro Madoushi]

http://www.kathleentzellner.com

MCSD is toast

edit: holy shit at these settlements: http://www.kathleentzellner.com/verdicts-settlements

Yikes...gauntlet has been thrown...

 

[Zemm]

 

[BronsonLee]

Man, even looking at those civil winnings, Steven really went for the jugular with his suit didn't he

 

[Dalek]

http://www.kathleentzellner.com

MCSD is toast

edit: holy shit at these settlements: http://www.kathleentzellner.com/verdicts-settlements

Oh man. I'd love to be a fly in wall in Manitowoc County right now.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

Oh man. I'd love to be a fly in wall in Manitowoc County right now.

"Is there any way we can plant a body in his cell?"

 

[Dalek]

 

[A Link to the Past]

This is exactly what I thought after watching what I've seen so far from the documentary, but then it seems that the judge was in on it too. It just seems unbelievable that there are so many people that want Avery in jail. I guess when you think about what a 36 million dollar lawsuit would cost, it's a lot cheaper to pay off everyone for less to do your evil bidding and make that stop. It's too bad that the Avery family couldn't continue the lawsuit without Steven on behalf of their son.

One thing I find odd about the victims brothers are that they are so sure it's Steven. They should want to find the person who killed their sister, regardless of who it is. They seem so sure it's Steven when they don't have a clue. Too many things don't add up. I find it hard to believe that the brothers didn't think something fishy was going on.

The judge doesn't have to be in on it. He could be incompetent, he could be a judge who's more willing to favour prosecutors, he could have allowed bias to influence his judgment.

 

[Ayt]

https://twitter.com/ZellnerLaw/status/683342594907058180

 

[Dalek]

https://twitter.com/ZellnerLaw/status/683342594907058180

Hell yes. That's what I've been saying!!

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

I'm wondering if they're doing this for free or in the hopes of a major payday for Steven. I find it hard to believe he has any money left from his original settlement, and last I heard, he was stuck with public defense (and even that had recently been denied to him).

Good to see some big shots step up either way.

 

[BronsonLee]

Lol what the fuck
She has zero percent chill, court of public opinion time. See how it works for the other side now

 

[Homeboyd]

"Is there any way we can plant a body in his cell?"

:lol

 

[Nafai1123]

Oh snap, finally some good news. Can't wait to see how this all plays out.

 

[Deadstar]

Hell yes. That's what I've been saying!!

So to play it from the other side. If Steven did do it, he could have forced her to delete the voicemails at gunpoint, right?

 

[Dalek]

New thread worthy?

 

[FlyinJ]

http://www.kathleentzellner.com

MCSD is toast

edit: holy shit at these settlements: http://www.kathleentzellner.com/verdicts-settlements

That's great, but what I REALLY want to see is a press release from the DOJ stating a massive investigation is going to occur against the MCSD, their court system and one Mr. Kratz.

 

[BronsonLee]

So to play it from the other side. If Steven did do it, he could have forced her to delete the voicemails at gunpoint, right?

Were they deleted before or after she went missing?

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

So to play it from the other side. If Steven did do it, he could have forced her to delete the voicemails at gunpoint, right?

Steven has an IQ of 70 and doesn't strike me as a criminal mastermind of any kind. That type of action would take someone who really planned this crime out in advance.

 

[Ayt]

Because much like The Innocence Project and all the appellate courts, I choose to look at everything. After watching the shitty, obviously biased, documentary, I read all the transcripts online. There's far more against Avery and Brendan than there is questionable. Avery sought this woman out. Harassed her on more than one occasion, and requested that she be the person that photograph his van on that day. He just so happened to buy shackles and handcuffs days prior, which he claims were for his fiancee, yet she was in jail. And Brendan magically knew that Avery used those same items to tie Teresa to the bed. Believe what you want. That's cool. I'll believe what I want. Avery is where he should be.

I'm curious about your thoughts on the Legal Director of the Midwest Innocence Project becoming one of his representatives.

That's great, but what I REALLY want to see is a press release from the DOJ stating a massive investigation is going to occur against the MCSD, their court system and one Mr. Kratz.

This is the legal system. Things will move much more slowly than that.

 

[ZQQLANDER]

So does Brendan still have public defenders? Or are Steven's lawyers thinking that if they can get him out then Brendan will follow?

 

[Homeboyd]

So does Brendan still have public defenders? Or are Steven's lawyers thinking that if they can get him out then Brendan will follow?

Brendan has the Chicago Innocence Project working on his case.

 

[Dalek]

I'm curious about your thoughts on the Legal Director of the Midwest Innocence Project becoming one of his representatives.

Hahahahahahahahaha

 

[ZQQLANDER]

Brendan has the Chicago Innocence Project working on his case.

Solid.