HotHamWater
Member
Brendan saying he guessed - like he does on his homework - really fucked me up.
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Making A Murderer - Netflix 10-part documentary series - S1 now streaming on Netflix
- Thread starter Armadilo
- Start date
A lot of things are fishy. As HeySeuss mentioned, the ex-boyfriends demeanor on the stand is very peculiar and aloof. He obviously pretends he doesn't remember the last time of day he remembers seeing her. He even says it with a bemused smirk on his face.
Zomba13
Member
It's mad at the "justice" system. Doesn't matter what your views are on the verdict of the trial, the way the case was handled is stuff that makes you mad.
Realplumpbox85
Member
Oh ok. Thanks!
17 Seconds
Banned
this sums up my feelings, as well
the parallels are there though. in this case, a town that viewed the Avery family, and Steven especially, with super prejudicial eyes that cloud judgement. Plus as others have pointed out, Brendan is a textbook case of coercion of a highly unintelligent child (like Misskelley in the West Memphis Three) who was made to say EXACTLY what cops needed to secure a conviction in their eyes.
JimiNutz
Banned
About four episodes into the show I was convinced of Avery's innocence and was ready to buy into the theory that he was entirely set up by the police, however by the end of the series I start thinking that no matter how low your IQ you're not going to admit to murder or witnessing a murder for no reason at all (Brandan) unless he did actually see something suspicious.
The police questioning Brendan was definitely shady and suggestive but I still don't understand why he gives that statement on multiple occasions and also why the neice says that Brendan said he saw toes in the fire. Just seems to me that something strange was going on. Definitely not enough to convict Avery but I'm not so sure that he's entirely innocent anymore.
Either way Brandan should not be in prison. That poor kid got screwed
The police questioning Brendan was definitely shady and suggestive but I still don't understand why he gives that statement on multiple occasions and also why the neice says that Brendan said he saw toes in the fire. Just seems to me that something strange was going on. Definitely not enough to convict Avery but I'm not so sure that he's entirely innocent anymore.
Either way Brandan should not be in prison. That poor kid got screwed
Yes and no. It definitely would have been one of the first areas that should have been searched, however without a warrant, they couldn't have searched it. But the fact that it was found by members of the volunteer search party tells me that the Avery's gave them permission to search on their property anyway so yes, 8 days is an unusually long time to have looked in the most obvious of places.
I don't think there was any issue with them allowing the searchers on their property considering how Steven didn't seem to ever have any issue with allowing them to search his home to begin with.
Cannot unsee.
We binge-watched the rest of this over the weekend and my god, as soon as the police took over the Avery salvage yard Steve and Brendan were fucked.
I'd be interested to know which of the weak-minded jurors changed from voting innocent to guilty, and whether there had been any police involvement with that too, cause 7 innocent, 3 guilty and 2 undecided coming up with a guilty verdict is silly.
Also, how on earth did they find him guilty of murder but not mutilation? Is there any explanation of who is supposed to have cut up and burned the body if it wasn't Steven?
Ken Kratz always seemed like a sneaky fuck, his voice is too high for his appearance, so the sexting just confirmed it really. I can't tell whether it was Teresa's ex who killed her because he was jealous, the brother because they just didn't get along, or both, but they're way more likely to be guilty than Steven as they're suspicious as shit.
PetriP-TNT
Member
Not sure what I watched but I did enjoy it
STILLethal
Member
Everyone should watch Memories of Murder, Korean movie but so good and similar to this.
Everytime I heard Kratz' voice my blood was boiling, fuuuuuuken hate that mthfkr, such a hateable voice/personality for some reason
bishopcruz
Member
In Kayla's case, people lie all the time. Sometimes innocently sometimes not. A fourteen year old girl or boy with knowledge of the case can easily create a story either to be important or to please the cops.
And sorry to say, lots of people have confessed to crimes they didn't commit. Look up false confessions on Google and read some of the science. It's scary. Also, in cases where there have been DNA exonerations 29% of them had a false confession.
Watching this just makes you mad, livid and angry.
If any one is looking for a feel good film that is true and similar, watch this film:-
Conviction (2010)
One thing I never understood is why the 2nd lawyer defense team for the poor kid decided not to include the last 90mins of the interrogation which where he says "they got in my head"
I also totally think Teresa brother did it or the ex, both had access to her phone because they knew her password and messages were deleted. How the police never asked for their alibi is beyond belief too and allowing them access in the search party within the Avery property is like WTF.
All of this is too much.
If any one is looking for a feel good film that is true and similar, watch this film:-
Conviction (2010)
One thing I never understood is why the 2nd lawyer defense team for the poor kid decided not to include the last 90mins of the interrogation which where he says "they got in my head"
I also totally think Teresa brother did it or the ex, both had access to her phone because they knew her password and messages were deleted. How the police never asked for their alibi is beyond belief too and allowing them access in the search party within the Avery property is like WTF.
All of this is too much.
lazybones18
Banned
for anyone that's interested, the makers of the doc will be guests on tonight's Late Show w/Stephen Colbert
TVexperto
Member
woah thanks! colbert is the perfect late night host for this
I agree, great movie.
So the new laywer found new evidence? What, tell me? They need to talk haha.
Gravy Boat
Member
I haven't read the whole thread but what are peoples thoughts on all the articles that have come out recently with supposed evidence that was left out from the show?
Spoilers for those who are still watching
Not sure if there's any merit to them or not, would be interesting to see what other people think as they could potentially sway my opinion on the whole thing.
Spoilers for those who are still watching
I've seen articles with supposed phone transcripts between Brendan and his mother, talking about how he did do it and how Steven had sexually abused him on multiple occasions. Supposedly how the interrogation of Brendan was like 4 hours long and in the full video, you see him very openly giving a detailed and specific account of what happened, it doesn't look like the info was dragged out of him the way the show makes it seem
Not sure if there's any merit to them or not, would be interesting to see what other people think as they could potentially sway my opinion on the whole thing.
Booker.DeWitt
Member
I found this comment on a facebook post about the series. the guy nailed. Spoile ALERT
PS: I love Steven's lawyer. They are so knowledgeable and humble. I don't know how they did not storm seeing that crap being done and the fake testimonies from the police officers. A lot of contradiction
**** I copied this from another thread, but I had to share. This person nailed it.......
Thought this comment I found on another page needed to be shared. It sums up PERFECTLY how I feel about this case:
Let me recap the prosecution's "airtight" case in a nutshell:
A guy who is a month or two away from a $36 million dollar check gets impatient waiting for all that money and decides to rape and murder a woman that he telephonically arranges (which she seems un-frightened to see him in her voicemail) to come visit his property in the middle of a weekday in full view of various people coming and going from said property. Once he gets her inside his trailer and commences with said raping, he gets a knock on his door, and answering it, he sees his nephew with the mental capacity of a 9 year old. Rather than saying, "I'm busy", he invites said nephew in to witness, participate in, and eventually confess about all the subsequent rapiness and other crimes that happen. Luckily for him, the nephew does not seem to possess any DNA, since none of it gets anywhere during the entire afternoon and evening.
Later, after much raping, stabbing, cutting, slitting, etc, that happens without any blood loss, the woman is dragged to the garage where she is shot eleven times, again without any blood loss, and also without making any sound. Later that evening, they burn the woman's body a few yards away from where several people live, without the horrifying and distinctive smell caused by a burning body.
At some point during this time, the guy and his nephew drive the woman's car (after first taking some of her bloody hair and drawing pictures with it in the back of the vehicle) to what they think is a perfect hiding spot behind 3 or 4 branches, which is located very close to a large and inconvenient car-crusher. They do this without leaving any fingerprints or the tiniest bit of DNA in the car, except for a lot of smeared blood in very obvious spots.
Three days later the police come asking questions and want to look around inside the trailer. The guy lets them do it, knowing he is safe because all of the raping, stabbing, cutting, slitting, etc, that happened in his carpeted trailer happened without any blood loss. The very next day, this guy leaves for his family's cabin 100 miles away, but decides not to bring the woman's car key, bones, teeth, cell phone, camera, etc. to dispose of far away because he knows he's loved by the Manitowoc police department and they will never suspect him and search his property.
Thought this comment I found on another page needed to be shared. It sums up PERFECTLY how I feel about this case:
Let me recap the prosecution's "airtight" case in a nutshell:
A guy who is a month or two away from a $36 million dollar check gets impatient waiting for all that money and decides to rape and murder a woman that he telephonically arranges (which she seems un-frightened to see him in her voicemail) to come visit his property in the middle of a weekday in full view of various people coming and going from said property. Once he gets her inside his trailer and commences with said raping, he gets a knock on his door, and answering it, he sees his nephew with the mental capacity of a 9 year old. Rather than saying, "I'm busy", he invites said nephew in to witness, participate in, and eventually confess about all the subsequent rapiness and other crimes that happen. Luckily for him, the nephew does not seem to possess any DNA, since none of it gets anywhere during the entire afternoon and evening.
Later, after much raping, stabbing, cutting, slitting, etc, that happens without any blood loss, the woman is dragged to the garage where she is shot eleven times, again without any blood loss, and also without making any sound. Later that evening, they burn the woman's body a few yards away from where several people live, without the horrifying and distinctive smell caused by a burning body.
At some point during this time, the guy and his nephew drive the woman's car (after first taking some of her bloody hair and drawing pictures with it in the back of the vehicle) to what they think is a perfect hiding spot behind 3 or 4 branches, which is located very close to a large and inconvenient car-crusher. They do this without leaving any fingerprints or the tiniest bit of DNA in the car, except for a lot of smeared blood in very obvious spots.
Three days later the police come asking questions and want to look around inside the trailer. The guy lets them do it, knowing he is safe because all of the raping, stabbing, cutting, slitting, etc, that happened in his carpeted trailer happened without any blood loss. The very next day, this guy leaves for his family's cabin 100 miles away, but decides not to bring the woman's car key, bones, teeth, cell phone, camera, etc. to dispose of far away because he knows he's loved by the Manitowoc police department and they will never suspect him and search his property.
PS: I love Steven's lawyer. They are so knowledgeable and humble. I don't know how they did not storm seeing that crap being done and the fake testimonies from the police officers. A lot of contradiction
bishopcruz
Member
There really isn't a lot of merit to that IMO.
The full interview is much like the part we saw, but remember, it was his fourth interview with Fassbender and Weigart. They had both been interviewing him and feeding him info for ages. All without either counsel or a parent present. They had also set up a pattern that if he told them what they wanted to hear, they would reward him or let him go. Why do you think he was thinking he might be able to make 6th period? During their first inteview, they let him go back to class afterwards.
But the full videos are on Youtube, or at least the main March 1, one is, so you can judge for yourself. There are also full transcripts of the Dassey trial and interviews here.
You're not going to let that out publicly. You present it to the court first.
Vampire On Titus
Member
Two of the jurors had ties to Manitowoc County. One man's son worked for the Manitowoc County Sheriff's Department and another man who's wife worked for the county clerk of courts office. The excused juror who left due to a family emergency has stated that the jurors who believed in Avery's guilt were arguing very adamantly. That the atmosphere for deliberations was tense because of this. I think the guilty verdict on the charge of mutilation was a compromise. Most likely people were tired and wanted to go home.
I don't know if there's ever been confirmation that the jurors vehemently arguing guilty were those biased jurors. But I'd but my money on it.
Gravy Boat
Member
You forgot
that he then took a small handful of her burnt bones and scattered them in a nearby quarry.
Kathleen Zellner's tweet:
https://twitter.com/ZellnerLaw/status/686915077384069121
"Visit w/Steven Avery at Waupon CC. He is identical to the other 17 innocent men we've cleared. Won't quit until he's out. #MakingAMurderer"
https://twitter.com/ZellnerLaw/status/686915077384069121
"Visit w/Steven Avery at Waupon CC. He is identical to the other 17 innocent men we've cleared. Won't quit until he's out. #MakingAMurderer"
HammerOfThor
Member
Was it ever uncovered who kept calling Teresa's cell that she didn't want to answer?
Sorry if this has been asked before, but have the creators of the documentary given any interviews or behind the scenes looks at how it was made? Seems like it would be an interesting story, I'm really curious about it. They got some very personal interviews with the family throughout the entire process.
Booker.DeWitt
Member
shortsFortallPeople
Banned
the creators will be on stephen colbert tonight so you might get answers there
Booker.DeWitt
Member
No. It was never looked into. I would say the good odds would be that it was her ex boyfriend calling her all the time, especially since he was the one who accessed her voicemail and checked her messages. And more than likely erased a couple of the messages he didn't want anyone to hear. I think that was the real reason he needed to access her phone, because he was the one harassing her blowing up her phone and left threatening messages trying to get her to take him back.
Her coworker said she knew the number and it was considered more of an annoyance than something she was fearful of. That's generally indicative of someone she would know.
Thanks guys. Also found this interview from a view days ago which I thought was interesting (I'm sure it's been posted before but whatever) http://www.vox.com/2016/1/11/10748138/netflix-making-a-murderer-review-interview. There's a good discussion regarding internet detectives missing the point of the show.
RustyNails
Member
Do we know if phone companies (even the ones no longer around like Cingular) are told by the law to keep voicemails in their database even if the user deletes them? It seems like a subpoena could solve the deleted voicemails mystery.
I don't think people are missing the bigger picture of the broken legal system. But what's more interesting to discuss is the case at hand.
No its up to their individual policies. Last time I wrote a warrant for text messages from Verizon, they only stored the last 3 months on their servers and anything before that is simply gone. With defunct wireless companies that get absorbed by other companies, sometimes all of that data is lost.
That's why burner phones are so popular. Nothing besides the calls can be pulled on them. Their retention policies make it impossible to pull texts from them once they're deleted.
José Mourinho
cocknose
Great read.If anyone else wants to read a similar story of an innocent man who was wronged by the justice system, this is a must read article. I read it late one night and I was riveted the entire time-and in the end had tears streaming down my face. This is one of the most well written pieces of journalism I've ever read.
http://www.texasmonthly.com/politics/the-innocent-man-part-one/
On August 13, 1986, Michael Morton came home from work to discover that his wife had been brutally murdered in their bed. His nightmare had only begun. - See more at: http://www.texasmonthly.com/politics/the-innocent-man-part-one/#sthash.0oYO4mPw.dpuf
Booker.DeWitt
Member
watch this interview on fox news.
really nice
Love Dean Strang
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIBAoe8hNPk
really nice
Love Dean Strang
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIBAoe8hNPk
Booker.DeWitt
Member
Woody Invincible
Banned
Go Go Avery! Sue that county into oblivion!
Doug Heffernan
Member
If anyone else wants to read a similar story of an innocent man who was wronged by the justice system, this is a must read article. I read it late one night and I was riveted the entire time-and in the end had tears streaming down my face. This is one of the most well written pieces of journalism I've ever read.
http://www.texasmonthly.com/politics/the-innocent-man-part-one/
On August 13, 1986, Michael Morton came home from work to discover that his wife had been brutally murdered in their bed. His nightmare had only begun. - See more at: http://www.texasmonthly.com/politics/the-innocent-man-part-one/#sthash.0oYO4mPw.dpuf
There's also a documentary about this on Netflix, and it's very good.
onadesertedisland
Member
This is another great one from Texas Monthly:
http://www.texasmonthly.com/articles/the-murders-at-the-lake/
http://www.texasmonthly.com/articles/the-murders-at-the-lake/
Finally finished this last night. I think it is possible Avery did kill the women. It makes no sense but crazy shit happens. Do I believe he did it beyond a reasonable doubt, absolutely not! The DA openly admits during closing that someone in law enforcement may have put his DNA on the key and planted it in the house, but so what, its no big deal. That alone is more than enough to not convict him. As to Brendan he was straight up fucked over at every single level. His initial lawyer and those that conspired with him should be in jail.
Applesauce
Boom! Bitch-slapped!
For those interested it's called 'An Unreal Dream : The Michael Morton Story'
Watching now
FlashbladeGAF
Member
My thoughts exactly.
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