To play devil's advocate, he coulda just been checking his memory based on an earlier dispatch or briefing. It's not a crazy thing.
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Making A Murderer - Netflix 10-part documentary series - S1 now streaming on Netflix
- Thread starter Armadilo
- Start date
To play devil's advocate, he coulda just been checking his memory based on an earlier dispatch or briefing. It's not a crazy thing.
Resident_UA
Member
You again? Once again, nobody here is saying that Steven is a good guy. In fact a lot of people agree that it's very likely that he did it. The issue here is with police.
Didn't he read the license plate number to the dispatcher? That wouldn't be something he'd have memorized.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
Maybe he wrote it down without the name and wanted to double check that it was indeed the plate for her vehicle. There are plenty of innocent explanations for him calling it in. It's just that particular cop doing so is suspicious.
StreetsAhead
Member
Whether or not Steven Avery is someone you'd want as a friend, whether or not he committed Teresa's murder, whether or not he should be in prison based on the evidence presented at court, and whether or not the police fucked with the investigation by planting evidence are 4 completely different questions. It's not enough to to simplify it to 'Steve Avery is a shitty dude, therefore must have done it, therefore it doesn't matter if the police/courts failed'.
So why call in a random car located on Steven's property? That makes zero sense unless he already knew.
Ya, idk how people miss this earlier. They do realize a lady with a law firm dedicated to getting people exonerated AND the Midwestern innocence project are on his side. They obviously know more than we do / feel he was wrongly convicted (which they aren't alone in, obviously).
Right, that's what I mean. If we reversed the accusation people in this thread would (rightfully) be pointing out how it's a bit of a stretch. It's not really a slam dunk piece of evidence against Colburn is all I need.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
No, I mean a defective tells him the license number of the missing rav4 and he writes it down. Later he looks at his notes and sees a license plate number which he thinks is Teresa's but he isn't sure. So he calls and has them confirm it. He doesn't have to be looking at the car when he calls to check.
Right. Or fuck, he is looking at a Rav4 that almost matches the description, but wants to double check it's not the right one.
Grinchy
Banned
I ended up watching Death on the Staircase because of this series. I have The Jinx ready to go next. I enjoyed the way The Staircase flowed better than Making a Murderer. It just felt more natural and less slimy.
I'm also less convinced that Michael Peterson killed his wife than I am that Steve Avery killed Teresa. But there's still a big part of me that thinks they're both murderers. Especially in Steven's case. You can't deny the strong defenses in both cases, though.
I'm also less convinced that Michael Peterson killed his wife than I am that Steve Avery killed Teresa. But there's still a big part of me that thinks they're both murderers. Especially in Steven's case. You can't deny the strong defenses in both cases, though.
Aarglefarg
Member
They made a follow-up feature-length documentary to The Staircase that it is important to watch afterwards. The Staircase 2: The Last Chance.
H.Cornerstone
Member
His body language was more of a clue to me than anything. The look on his face was "ohh shit they caught me."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpsRtPCWHoM
Just look at this reaction.
This whole thing is insanity. I just finished the series, have there been any updates to the case since?
This whole thing is just incredibly depressing.
I still don't get what you mean. He called in the plates 2 days before she was even reported missing.
Why did he call in the plates of the missing car 2 days before it was actually missing?
Outdoor Miner
Member
Yep. I'm no body languag expert but god damn that reaction of his is so telling. Dunno why the defense didn't bury him or bring it up again.
Aarglefarg
Member
No. She was reported missing days before. The car was found days later.
Two days before the car was (officially?) found.
Ah, right, but I don't think it was days later. Maybe that same day. Also, why not ask about the color or model of the vehicle if he wasn't standing next to it? 99 Toyota is pretty vague of a description if he's looking for a missing vehicle. And why call it in to begin with?
Because the car was found?
But the questions are where was it found and why didn't he report it?
I just don't think Steven is smart enough to do this. And I keep going back to the 2 phone calls made to prison the day of the event. At 9 pm, presumably right after he JUST TORCHED A FUCKING HUMAN IN A FIRE, he manages to be lovey dovey with his girlfriend on the phone, without extreme paranoia, and or madness, sounding without even a elevated heartrated, and sincere calmness.
Imo
Imo
hey_monkey
Banned
Not only that, but we are talking about a four-five hour window for the bulk of the thing. Killing. Cleaning. Burning. Calming down. I just don't see it either. Not between the bus driver's report and Jodi's calls.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
The only people claiming the Averys were geniuses were the cops.
Oh no, the woman that has been suffering for 28 fucking years has a crackpot theory! The nerve of her, what a terrible person!
You are a terrible, dishonest debater with little to no sense of intelectual honesty and logic.
How was there not a speck of blood anywhere in Avery's home even though Brendan was given life for cutting her throat in Avery's bedroom?
Obviously she wasn't killed anywhere near the Avery residence and simply brought there afterwards.
And yet so much of the case relies on the story that Stephen and Brendan apparantly raped her, cut her throat AND shot her on Stephen's property. And yet not one atom of dna was found?
Clown courtroom indeed.
Obviously she wasn't killed anywhere near the Avery residence and simply brought there afterwards.
And yet so much of the case relies on the story that Stephen and Brendan apparantly raped her, cut her throat AND shot her on Stephen's property. And yet not one atom of dna was found?
Clown courtroom indeed.
Odd how the feelings of the murdered woman's parents/family are absent from your analysis.
Vampire On Titus
Member
Wow, you're right. A grief stricken old woman said something wrong. Confirmed trash family. I guess it's a good thing two potentially innocent men got rail-roaded by an obviously corrupt criminal justice system.
Now it's even. Everything worked out in the end.
I'm not playing "goalposts around the world" with you like you've been doing for weeks.
Find another fool.
To be quite honest, the family of the victim should be the first people in the world to want to see this case set straight, as it means the real killer could be out in the streets while not only one, but two people rot behind bears for something they didn't do.
It is a quite absurd notion to try to protect the family by pretending this case doesn't need to be re-opened, regardless if Avery did or didn't do it.
SenorArdilla
Member
The police's personal vendetta and incompetence had put her son in prison for 18 years and you think she'd still trust them after that? And then after 18 years of saying her son was innocent, she was proven right. Of course she'd think there's some full-blown conspiracy against them.
Mr. Mister
Member
If he was looking at the car couldn't he have just been illegally trespassing on the junkyard?
PrivateWHudson
Member
Sure, that whole "illegal" part just compounds how terrible the police work was throughout the case.
Mr. Mister
Member
"If" he was looking at the car. The defense provided no evidence that he did anything wrong.
mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
Correct me if I'm wrong, but there was no hard evidence found that involved Brendan at all, except his "confession", right? I'd like to hear that jury debating giving a life sentence to this kid with zero evidence found and only a confession to go on, it seems like the concept of reasonable doubt was no longer a thing for them.
Just to add a little something on my mind.
Of course everyone is speaking everywhere of the real life aspect of all that, and the human consequences and all, that's understandable as there are 2 men jailed for life.
Now, speaking about the documentary, art wise.. If Steve did it. It's even more fucking incredible lol!
To me the whole documentary is genius in its david simonish way to show how the society can crush a family with its infinite complexity and idiocy. It's also unbelievable in term of pure crime intrigue. From that later point of view, if the film makers did so much to convince everyone, and themselves, that all those proofs were fake.. That's amazing lol.
Cause chen you thinkk about it, there are soooo many proofs, and we are all convinced the more proof they find, the more innocent Avery is, cause it seems soo big and obvious. Now if all those proofs are true. The key, the blood etc.. All those evidences and millions of people convinced themselves to unvalid all of them, that's fucking incredible when you think about it. That's a thing of beauty in itself!
Now i still can't really believe he did it, cause there was no motives and it doesn't make sense. Now that's troubling that everything, in the documentary, that could lead to think Avery is a "monster" (the cat fire, the violence with his cousin and his first wife..), and that would make the case so much more believable.. is said super quick. They never come back on the early episode informations about Avery's youth. They talk about the mail exchange with his wife in prison, that is pretty violent. They say something like "it escalated quickly but nothing special". Same for the cat "Every said it was an accident". The cousin and the car incident, the same. All of that is seen super quickly and they never really come back on it. And our perception of the case changes a lot cause of that. A documentary in the other direction would have easily showed Avery as a deranged, violent and dumb man, and then there would be way less will, from the viewer, to see every evidences as ridiculous.
But that doubt is what makes the film for me, narrative wise.
Of course everyone is speaking everywhere of the real life aspect of all that, and the human consequences and all, that's understandable as there are 2 men jailed for life.
Now, speaking about the documentary, art wise.. If Steve did it. It's even more fucking incredible lol!
To me the whole documentary is genius in its david simonish way to show how the society can crush a family with its infinite complexity and idiocy. It's also unbelievable in term of pure crime intrigue. From that later point of view, if the film makers did so much to convince everyone, and themselves, that all those proofs were fake.. That's amazing lol.
Cause chen you thinkk about it, there are soooo many proofs, and we are all convinced the more proof they find, the more innocent Avery is, cause it seems soo big and obvious. Now if all those proofs are true. The key, the blood etc.. All those evidences and millions of people convinced themselves to unvalid all of them, that's fucking incredible when you think about it. That's a thing of beauty in itself!
Now i still can't really believe he did it, cause there was no motives and it doesn't make sense. Now that's troubling that everything, in the documentary, that could lead to think Avery is a "monster" (the cat fire, the violence with his cousin and his first wife..), and that would make the case so much more believable.. is said super quick. They never come back on the early episode informations about Avery's youth. They talk about the mail exchange with his wife in prison, that is pretty violent. They say something like "it escalated quickly but nothing special". Same for the cat "Every said it was an accident". The cousin and the car incident, the same. All of that is seen super quickly and they never really come back on it. And our perception of the case changes a lot cause of that. A documentary in the other direction would have easily showed Avery as a deranged, violent and dumb man, and then there would be way less will, from the viewer, to see every evidences as ridiculous.
But that doubt is what makes the film for me, narrative wise.
For the idea that he was calling to check what the plate number was associated with-
At this point in his testimony he might have thought the defense was pointing out that he had an awful memory and couldn't be trusted, which would explain his body language.
Something to keep in mind is he didn't use his radio, he called the station on his cel. This could be because he didn't want anyone to know he forgot what the plate was or something more malicious.
mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
I was also reminded so much of the West Memphis 3 during this doc, not only because of the forced confession from a mentally unsound kid, but because of the fact that when it came time for appeals, they were having to face the judge that passed the first verdict. Now why in the hell could they expect that to result in any kind of reexamination of the case?
PrivateWHudson
Member
Sure. I just keyed into the phrase " just been illegally trespassing" thinking you were being dismissive about illegal trespassing.
Vampire On Titus
Member
I just watched Nancy Drew's appearance on Dr.Phil. I want to die now. It seems to me the only option left.
That reaction could just be 'shit this looks bad' even if he has an entirely innocent reason for calling in the plate.
RustyNails
Member
Then just tell us what the entirely innocent reason is? He's fumbling, even saying he didn't say the make and model of the vehicle but the dispatch did right after Strang played the call. He was shook. After a few more questions, he simply curls up into a ball and goes with the typical manitowoc county sheriff department "I don't recall" defense.
The defense DID provide evidence he may have done something wrong, which is why it was admissible in court. If it was evidence of literally nothing it wouldn't have been presented.
Can anyone give a me a refresh in the bus drivers testimony? It's slipped my mind.
BubbleBobble
Banned
I only watched the first episode, and at first I was starting to feel a little bit of his plight
after thinking more about it, I was inclined to agree with my sister - this guy burned a cat alive, or threw it over a fire or w/e.. I don't particularly care to see much more about what injustices he faced based on that and a couple of other personality traits that he (had) exhibited in the first ep
I'm sure it's all f'ed up, of course, but.. cruelty to animals doesn't really make me feel sorry for anyone to any degree after that =3 perhaps if they had omitted that part
after thinking more about it, I was inclined to agree with my sister - this guy burned a cat alive, or threw it over a fire or w/e.. I don't particularly care to see much more about what injustices he faced based on that and a couple of other personality traits that he (had) exhibited in the first ep
I'm sure it's all f'ed up, of course, but.. cruelty to animals doesn't really make me feel sorry for anyone to any degree after that =3 perhaps if they had omitted that part
So since he's not a very good person, you don't care that he was wrongly imprisoned for 18 years and now possibly wrongly imprisoned for life for another crime?I only watched the first episode, and at first I was starting to feel a little bit of his plight
after thinking more about it, I was inclined to agree with my sister - this guy burned a cat alive, or threw it over a fire or w/e.. I don't particularly care to see much more about what injustices he faced based on that and a couple of other personality traits that he (had) exhibited in the first ep
I'm sure it's all f'ed up, of course, but.. cruelty to animals doesn't really make me feel sorry for anyone to any degree after that =3 perhaps if they had omitted that part
Complex Shadow
Cudi Lame
What...I only watched the first episode, and at first I was starting to feel a little bit of his plight
after thinking more about it, I was inclined to agree with my sister - this guy burned a cat alive, or threw it over a fire or w/e.. I don't particularly care to see much more about what injustices he faced based on that and a couple of other personality traits that he (had) exhibited in the first ep
I'm sure it's all f'ed up, of course, but.. cruelty to animals doesn't really make me feel sorry for anyone to any degree after that =3 perhaps if they had omitted that part
LaserBuddha
Member
When this kind of police and prosecutorial misconduct can run unchecked, you can save the sorry feelings for yourself, when I happens to you. It takes a lot of naïveté to see such injustice and not care because you're not on trial right now. It is a very American thing to think that way, I guess.I only watched the first episode, and at first I was starting to feel a little bit of his plight
after thinking more about it, I was inclined to agree with my sister - this guy burned a cat alive, or threw it over a fire or w/e.. I don't particularly care to see much more about what injustices he faced based on that and a couple of other personality traits that he (had) exhibited in the first ep
I'm sure it's all f'ed up, of course, but.. cruelty to animals doesn't really make me feel sorry for anyone to any degree after that =3 perhaps if they had omitted that part
As far as the cat thing, it's horrific but I'm not going to feel like justice is done when they spend 2 decades in jail under a false rape conviction and potentially spend the rest of their life in jail for a false murder conviction. Maybe work on your sense of empathy if you're willing to go to such extremes with what you're comfortable with when another act personally angers you. People should be allowed to make mistakes and still have a life. Stephen Avery has an IQ around 70 and grew up as trailer trash, basically. Unfortunately acts of animal cruelty are extremely common in those conditions.
I only watched the first episode, and at first I was starting to feel a little bit of his plight
after thinking more about it, I was inclined to agree with my sister - this guy burned a cat alive, or threw it over a fire or w/e.. I don't particularly care to see much more about what injustices he faced based on that and a couple of other personality traits that he (had) exhibited in the first ep
I'm sure it's all f'ed up, of course, but.. cruelty to animals doesn't really make me feel sorry for anyone to any degree after that =3 perhaps if they had omitted that part
You don't have to like him. It's not about that. It's about the injustice of the system.
And it should be pointed out that Avery admitted he was very young, hanging out with the wrong crowd, and felt sadness after killing the cat.
He fessed up to the crime of killing the cat, admitted to his guilt, and took his punishment.
It's not like the guy was bragging about killing the cat.
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