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[starchild excalibur]

I suggest you do more than skim a few pages, because most of your questions have already been covered many times over. And it would assist in the context of why people are continuously using the line "diet racism".

See, even the way you quoted me is the stuff I'm talking about, but okay. Fair point. The last time I read through this thread was 5 pages in and - you got me - I hadn't read the hundreds of other posts since then. I've now gone back and read more.

To answer your question, black face could work if black people were equal and the world was all rosy and nice. But it's not like that. Black face is still used as a tool to mock black people - to treat them like sideshows. lol halloween isn't an excuse to be racist, or to be offensive.

So by your estimation, any applying of pigmentation to signify blackness is immediately the act of treating the person being represented as a sideshow? A spot-on costume of, say, Ray Charles, is an homage until the point that the wearer decides to put on make-up to match Ray Charles's skin tone? We're not talking about those pics of "dead Trayvon Martin" or "Random Black Gangster #1."

Does the requirement of this impossible utopia before someone can don brown make-up suggest that it would only be in this utopia that you would trust that someone is doing it out of homage or respect and not derision of the black race?

Even within the context of the article I posted, the dude's girlfriend was saying shit like "people really thought he was a black person lol". Do you think that's appropriate? You talk of intent, and that's exactly what he was aiming for. He wasn't ignorant of how black face is seen in America. He just didn't give a shit.

"Man dresses up as someone else and tricks others by his costume" is automatically racist to you? You talk of intent, but it's obvious we see the intent differently here. And what's more inappropriate - that she laughed at his costume being more effective than she expected to be or the fact that some people literally couldn't separate a white man with brown pigment from an actual black person?

(I love that "I don't see color" shit, by the way. Classic escape tactic!)

I agree. I hate when people use this line.

This really goes for yellow face or red face. None of that shit is okay. It's characterizing and stereotyping a group of humans in order to feel superior.

Where's the bolded part coming from? What metric are you using when determining the goals of anyone's costume when it involves dressing as another person? Again, not talking about "dead Trayvon" here - is every act of pigmentation altering an act of wanting to feel superior? You can't simultaneously say that intent is on the bingo score card of racist apologists one second and then assume intent the next regardless of the context.

West's pigmentation isn't even his most defining feature! You can do any of these costumes without resorting to being tactless! Grace certain pages on this very thread, and you'll see examples of it.

You're right - it's not his most defining feature. But it is a feature. I never said and am not saying the guy had to change his pigmentation to do the costume. He absolutely did not. What I'm asking is the inclusion of this element (albeit not a critical one) of Kanye's look automatically the wearer as someone who's seemingly wanting to feel "superior" over the person he's representing?

Black face doesn't need to have the old school acting of "dumb black person" antics. It's the same thing, regardless of if they are at a piano or on some insensitive white person's face.

I disagree. I don't know what else to say but I disagree. Black skin isn't offensive by itself regardless of whether it's black skin on a black man or black skin on a white man. What makes it offensive is what the latter does while in the guise of this other race. It's obvious you disagree though, so maybe all of this is moot. If the history of black face wasn't rooted in buffoonery actions...in the derision of the very blacks white people were seeking to portray in those roles, this thread would be different than it is today.

And dude, don't use the RDJ or Mac thing. Those are exactly what people are talking about in this thread - where reminders of how bad it is and how ignorant people are of the subject get deflected over the act. There's another time you can use black face - when you are reminding people about how shitty that stuff is.

I read the previous pages. The couple people that brought them up in defense were shut down by people who said that the characters were made fun of in the film and therefore shouldn't be used as examples. Only one person as far as I can remember brought up my point - that even in depicting these characters as being flawed, you're still granting the act of blackface a pass.

Once again, all of this is on the previous pages. If you really want a discussion, read, do more than skim. Else it's the same song and dance.

Hypothetically, what could someone say who absolutely 100% disagrees with you that would lead into a proper discussion with you? Anything? I'm not being snarky here, I'm genuinely curious.

It's all about tact and respect. You can discuss whether black face is wrong or not in your opinion without "telling" people they are dumb for being offended and/or variations of this. Understand that most people (particularly black people, whether you yourself are black or not) find it offensive/look down upon it and think about that as you express your opinions. Also, it's generally better when it comes to things being offensive or not to express your own opinions as to why you think something isn't offensive to you while understanding it might be offensive to someone else and that it is ok for them to be offended just like it is ok for you not to be offended.

I appreciate your post and I totally agree. I completely understand that I'm in the minority of black people that doesn't automatically find the act of painting your face black offensive. I completely agree that it's insensitive to not take the feelings of those around you into account when dressing a certain way for Halloween. Everybody has a right to be offended. I'm not debating that. I don't believe anyone else - black or not - is wrong for feeling negative about the image in the OP. I'm just curious as to different people's thought processes and finding where there's overlap or not with those that hold different views.

 

[openrob]

There's no separating that act from how it has been carried out for centuries in the States.

I think this is the crux of most peoples offence. Not that US is completely rid of rascism (far FAR from it by the way things seem). But we are so removed from early depictions of black people in media being as they were, that the act becomes a different one.

hell, when the guy is mimicing a black celebrity, I think the idea of black face stuff being shoehorned into this is something I disagree with

 

[Crimson_Gold]

I think this is the crux of most peoples offence. Not that US is completely rid of rascism (far FAR from it by the way things seem). But we are so removed from early depictions of black people in media being as they were, that the act becomes a different one.

hell, when the guy is mimicing a black celebrity, I think the idea of black face stuff being shoehorned into this is something I disagree with

You do know there were black "celebrities" during the heights of blackface as well right?

 

[Evening Musuko]

Ok so I'm a little confused by your post.

Well by that assertion the dude in the OP as Kayne isn't any more or less off-base either. Who knows, maybe he's really influenced by Kanye's music and hiphop culture?

It is insensitive because he's American and he should definitely know why it is. Anyone who has any respect for black musicians would know how most black people feel about blackface, especially if he or she is American.

I don't have an issue with either in terms of them feeling like they're maliciously racist. But it's funny to see the double standards in place and honestly makes you ask why. Is it because one's Korean and the other's white? Is it because of the (false) notion that minorities of one group can't be racist towards minorities of another group? Is it the (also false) notion that all incidents of racism are white people against minorities? Or is it because Korean culture is different from American culture so a concept such as "blackface" has a much different history there compared to here?

I'm not so sure what you're talking about. Are you talking about people excusing the Kpop singer for painting his face black? If that's the case I agree. It's not just white people who do racially insensitive things.

Honestly, where is the line drawn? If blackface is so bad, it shouldn't be tolerated anywhere. But are either of these incidents "blackface" in the historical minstrel sense? Not in my opinion.

Unfortunately for these two globalization just mainly means the expansion of Western (mostly American) corporations and cultural sensibilities to the rest of the world, and America hasn't resolved its own problems and history regarding racism, so other countries basically have to abide by American ideas on this front even if their history is much different. And sometimes that's a good thing (Zwarte Piet), but other times it's not.

It doesn't have to be in the "Historical Minstrel" sense in order for it to be inappropriate, as it's been stated countless times in this thread by black people themselves.

And Super Junior is famous all over the world and have sold out arenas around the world. Yes, that includes the U.S. so even though their bread and butter is in Asia, they're still aware about their fanbase abroad and therefore should be a bit more more aware of the cultural sensitivities. That goes for American groups too.

 

[openrob]

You do know there were black "celebrities" during the heights of blackface as well right?

What do you mean?
I'm talking about the idea that I think acts can eventually be separated from their historical connotations, of how things once were. Obviously a lot of horrible stuff happened, and that was a terrible thing. The blackface stuff was about white people putting black people down, asserting their superiority and so forth. My point is that this is some regular guy mimicing one of the richest and powerful (I use that word lightly lol) celebrities in the US, or even the world.

And I think that is indicative of at least a move away from what it used to be.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

What do you mean?
I'm talking about the idea that I think acts can eventually be separated from their historical connotations, of how things once were. Obviously a lot of horrible stuff happened, and that was a terrible thing. The blackface stuff was about white people putting black people down, asserting their superiority and so forth. My point is that this is some regular guy mimicing one of the richest and powerful (I use that word lightly lol) celebrities in the US, or even the world.

And I think that is indicative of at least a move away from what it used to be.

Chris Rock:

“In my neighborhood, there are four Black people. Hundreds of houses, four Black people. Who are these Black people? Well, there’s me, Mary J. Blige, Jay-Z and Eddie Murphy. Only Black people in the whole neighborhood. So let’s break it down, let’s break it down: me, I’m a decent comedian. I’m a’ight. Mary J. Blige, one of the greatest R&B singers to ever walk the Earth. Jay-Z, one of the greatest rappers to ever live. Eddie Murphy, one of the funniest actors to ever, ever do it. Do you know what the White man who lives next door to me does for a living? He’s a f**king dentist! He ain’t the best dentist in the world…he ain’t going to the Dental Hall of Fame…he don’t get plaques for getting rid of plaque. He’s just a yank-your-tooth-out dentist. See, the Black man gotta fly to get to somethin’ the White man can walk to!” – Kill the Messenger (2008)

 

[Crimson_Gold]

What do you mean?
I'm talking about the idea that I think acts can eventually be separated from their historical connotations, of how things once were. Obviously a lot of horrible stuff happened, and that was a terrible thing. The blackface stuff was about white people putting black people down, asserting their superiority and so forth. My point is that this is some regular guy mimicing one of the richest and powerful (I use that word lightly lol) celebrities in the US, or even the world.

And I think that is indicative of at least a move away from what it used to be.

It is more of a perpetuation of the same thing. What was once used to demean is now used as a passive joke. It still offends. One individual is putting on another's identity in jest. This same individual has privileges that a person of that identity does not have. Who cares how rich Kanye is? Again, there were rich blacks during the era of blackface as well. That does not justify the action. Trying to say you can move blackface away from its roots is the same as saying that the Confederate flag is now about heritage. It is what it is.

Is it bad to portray yourself as another gender?

Let's not do this

 

[shadowsdarknes]

Is it bad to portray yourself as another gender?

 

[Seesaw15]

Is it bad to portray yourself as another gender?

 

[Stet]

Is it bad to portray yourself as another gender?

No, but you can only kiss 174 men at the time.

 

[Numb]

Is it bad to portray yourself as another gender?

As long as you are open about it and don't go trick people.

 

[lethial]

Is it bad to portray yourself as another gender?

Haha I get it, your tag. Haha so meta.

 

[Tarkus]

Found this thread from rumblings in another. I'd be interested to know the body count.

 

[starchild excalibur]

It is more of a perpetuation of the same thing. What was once used to demean is now used as a passive joke. It still offends. One individual is putting on another's identity in jest. This same individual has privileges that a person of that identity does not have. Who cares how rich Kanye is? Again, there were rich blacks during the era of blackface as well. That does not justify the action. Trying to say you can move blackface away from its roots is the same as saying that the Confederate flag is now about heritage. It is what it is.

This is a good post. I think what put me at odds with some of the other posters is that I don't agree that sporting it automatically putting on "another's identity in jest" - at least not specifically in terms of race. Kanye West is as fair game as Elton John or Bono as far as I'm concerned. But it's a fair point that because the vast majority of people still feel wounded by the deep connotations it has regardless of the intent of the wearer, that it should be avoided.

 

[akira28]

As long as you are open about it and don't go trick people.

You can trick people if its like, arm wrestling or basketball slam dunk contests or something. Just no funny business.

 

[Numb]

Found this thread from rumblings in another. I'd be interested to know the body count.

50 bodies.
Yes.

You can trick people if its like, arm wrestling or basketball slam dunk contests or something. Just no funny business.

The type of funny business that spreads around space AIDS to 200 people lol

 

[ShinRPGamer]

Found this thread from rumblings in another. I'd be interested to know the body count.

Is there an official body count? I was lurking back in the Epic Mickey days but I remember that the two big threads dedicated to that had like 80 bans combined.

We are now at 51 with the most recent ban.

 

[Bronx-Man]

Is it bad to portray yourself as another gender?

As long as you tell everyone else you're dressed as a hippie.

 

[Numb]

We are now at 51 with the most recent ban.

Another person eh..

As long as you tell everyone else you're dressed as a hippie.

Thought it was only me who thought that.

 

[Team Alucard]

I saw the smoke coming from the OT. Is everyone alright!?

 

[Dai101]

I saw the smoke coming from the OT. Is everyone alright!?

 

[TheSpoiler]

Snip.

I had a big long post, but I think I can sum up most of your questions. A lot of what you are asking seems to be funneled through "but what about all cases"?

It's really about being insensitive and being a walking reminder of the constant struggle black people continue to face every single day. From being beat down by cops on the smallest things to having the very systems installed for others made to keep you out, nobody needs to be reminded of how they were and still are viewed as comical sideshow attractions.

Personally, there aren't many cases where this shit is okay to me. Just like it's not okay for someone to walk around insulting any other race or sex. It pushes us backwards because it continues ignorance and really shows how little people care about the plight of others. Maybe it's small to some people, but that shit adds up.

To me, it's context. With parody or satirical, the effort is to inform the viewer and not necessarily be some sort of parade of painful reminders. In fact, I believe that stuff is important regardless of the situation depending on how tactfully it was done, but that's a story for another day.

I give it a pass because it's actively informing someone instead of just being racial.

There's a difference between that and Halloween costumes. The intent isn't to go around showing people how shitty black face was and how it continues to impact our society to this day. The intent is to goof around and dress up as whatever thing they want to dress up as.

His wife's comment about how "people thought he was actually black!" is exactly what I'm talking about - it's a joke to them to dress up as a black person. To clown around as "one of them". This is how they dance, this is how they look, haha lemme just wash my face and come back to the better side.

When it comes to discussion, I'm not really asking all that much. I'd be more than happy to see another side if the other side wasn't originally steeped in racism or wanting to do something just to piss off the PC crowd.

But what hypothetically would be 100 percent disagreement? Because at that point, you don't think black face is a big deal at all and that blacks should just get over it. Still willing to engage, but telling an oppressed person to just accept that way of life from the get-go isn't going to drum up the best discussion. The onus isn't on the marginalized side to be walked on.

 

[toastyToast]

Every time I see one of these black face threads I expect people to mock the offender then go about their business. The thread reaching 2-3 pages and gracefully slipping away from the first page

Never happens

 

[rjinaz]

Every time I see one of these black face threads I expect people to mock the offender then go about their business. The thread reaching 2-3 pages and gracefully slipping away from the first page

Never happens

So you're saying people are overreacting? I guess? Sorry not sure what you mean.

 

[stump sock]

So you're saying people are overreacting? I guess? Sorry not sure what you mean.

they're saying they have more faith in humanity than we actually deserve

 

[FartOfWar]

So you're saying people are overreacting? I guess? Sorry not sure what you mean.

Fucking hell, this is some inquisition/French Terror shit here. Guy suggests nothing more than that he expects people to step in, see someone in blackface who is either ignorant, racist, or both, scoff at the stupidity and/or racism and that's that. You're looking like Robespierre/John Hathorne/etc. high on the scent of blood.

 

[rjinaz]

Fucking hell, this is some inquisition shit here. Guy suggests nothing more than that he expects people to step in, see someone in blackface who is either ignorant, racist, or both, scoff at the stupidity and/or racism and that's that. You're looking like John Hathorne high on the scent of blood.

Wasn't my intention. I honestly didn't know what he meant. It honestly sounded that way to me. Sorry to the poster if I was incorrect.

 

[weekev]

I mean, I had no idea folks found this so offensive. First time I looked at it I just thought it was a shit costume. Read through the thread and can see why folks find it offensive now. Thanks for the education GAF.

 

[rjinaz]

I mean, I had no idea folks found this so offensive. First time I looked at it I just thought it was a shit costume. Read through the thread and can see why folks find it offensive now. Thanks for the education GAF.

Yeah I wish people would have read through the thread instead of just reacting. Especially since this issue probably means absolutely nothing to them personally but means a heck of a lot to the other side. Sometimes you just got to let things go even if you don't 100 percent agree.

 

[weekev]

Yeah I wish people would have read through the thread instead of just reacting. Especially since this issue probably means absolutely nothing to them personally but means a heck of a lot to the other side. Sometimes you just got to let things go even if you don't 100 percent agree.

I would have expected a grade school teacher to be clued up on the fact his outfit is actually really fucking offensive and changed to something traditional like Joker and Harley. Maybe he wanted to be famous. What a prick.

 

[toastyToast]

No. I'm saying it's disappointing that all these threads follow the same trajectory. Like no one ever learns anything

Wasn't my intention. I honestly didn't know what he meant. It honestly sounded that way to me. Sorry to the poster if I was incorrect.

No reason to apologize. What put you on guard exactly?

 

[stump sock]

No reason to apologize. What put you on guard exactly?

51 bans, I'm guessing

 

[rjinaz]

No. I'm saying it's disappointing that all these threads follow the same trajectory. Like no one ever learns anything



No reason to apologize. What put you on guard exactly?

The people posting such things in this thread like clockwork. We saw people not learning in this very thread. I do see what you were saying now.

 

[LionPride]

I mean, I had no idea folks found this so offensive. First time I looked at it I just thought it was a shit costume. Read through the thread and can see why folks find it offensive now. Thanks for the education GAF.

Why can't more people just do this instead of trying to argue against it or anything else being offensive?

 

[rjinaz]

I would have expected a grade school teacher to be clued up on the fact his outfit is actually really fucking offensive and changed to something traditional like Joker and Harley. Maybe he wanted to be famous. What a prick.

Wow I didn't even realize this was a teacher. So this person is college educated and likely teaches black children. Mind boggling.

 

[weekev]

Why can't more people just do this instead of trying to argue against it or anything else being offensive?

I guess some folks are still ignorant of the fact that racial equality isnt a thing yet. "well I treat everyone the same regardless of race" gives them license to pull shit that they would call others racist for. All the while completely ignorant of how stupid they are being.

Id genuinely put it down to stupid naivety in general tbh.

 

[way more]

Blackface is so bad, and it shouldn't be tolerated anywhere (and not just because of the horrible history of minstrel shows), and being influenced by Kanye doesn't mean you get to parade around in altered skin tone.

Hell, I still have a problem with Kyle "Soft Dolezal" Jenner.

Ugh, make-up is evil. Or maybe you are for judging an 18 year old girl who probably feels more comfortable looking like her older, famous, celebrity siblings.

 

[EloquentM]

Wow I didn't even realize this was a teacher. So this person is college educated and likely teaches black children. Mind boggling.

"Can a nigga get a pencil?"

 

[Bunta]

I'm guessing his apology was already posted?

edit: Yep, found it through search.

 

[oneils]

Has anyone made a bingo card for this yet? Maybe there are not enough dumb statements to fill up a card...

 

[rjinaz]

I'm guessing his apology was already posted?

edit: Yep, found it through search.

Pretty sure it was. Remember reading it when reading through most of the thread. Something about not seeing color, and yet proceeds to color himself.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

"Can a nigga get a pencil?"

That guy..sheesh.

 

[rjinaz]

"Can a nigga get a pencil?"

That guy..sheesh.

I'm guessing this is a reference to something or someone that I missed?

 

[zer0blivion]

I'm guessing this is a reference to something or someone that I missed?

Can you lend a nigga a pencil?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WiYt7gAySw

 

[Dai101]

Has anyone made a bingo card for this yet? Maybe there are not enough dumb statements to fill up a card...

I'm sure we can fill 3 different ones.

 

[Lotto]

We are now at 51 with the most recent ban.

 

[rjinaz]

Can you lend a nigga a pencil?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WiYt7gAySw

Lol oh man. Never saw that.

 

[weekev]

Can you lend a nigga a pencil?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WiYt7gAySw

Lol at the news reporters face. TV chiefs knew what they were doing when they sent her to interview him.

 

[danm999]

why would you do this.

why would you defend this?

This thread just gets worse and worse the more I read it as more idiots drop their 2 cents in about how black people need to get over something they don't even seem to understand.

is it just racism or ignorance or an oppositional disorder or a combination of them all or something? like are people really fucking hot to use blackface or something?

Well they say there's a Simpson gif for everything and I think reading this thread puts me in mind of this one

 

[rjinaz]

why would you do this.

why would you defend this?

This thread just gets worse and worse the more I read it as more idiots drop their 2 cents in about how black people need to get over something they don't even seem to understand.

is it just racism or ignorance or an oppositional disorder or a combination of them all or something? like are people really fucking hot to use blackface or something?

Well they say there's a Simpson gif for everything and I think reading this thread puts me in mind of this one

You know I think a lot of it is just being told they can't do something. If it's not against the law people feel like they need to rebel. Not saying that is what this guy did but certainly people in this thread defending him come across that way. "Don't tell me what I can't do!"