Man does black face for Kanye West costume because this shit will never end

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Rembrandt said:
it's weird because it takes one google search to get all the history you need to know. just google blackface and bam, the first paragraph of wikipedia tells you why it's offensive. it takes a certain type of person to paint their face black in america. it's also not like it's the first type these stories have popped up. you're bound to hear at least one each year if you post on GAF or any social media site.
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See, this is the issue, I was aware of blackface, I was not aware of how popular it actually was and how degrading and dehumanizing it could actually be. The first paragraph of wikipedia really doesn't give you this knowledge, neither do the main picture on the page. I deduced it when reading more thoroughly, and watching the video of Bamboozled posted in the thread.

Most of the exposure to blackface outside of the US comes from maybe stuff in Tom and Jerry cartoons, and they are so rare, sporadic and tamed down that many just don't see the issue, because on the surface blackface seems to be putting on black make-up and just that. Black makeup in itself is just not offensive for most people outside the US. And then you get the shocked responses "you are being too sensitive" of some people here in the thread. I do agree people should be more respectful, and after all GAF is mostly an american forum, this is something that you just have to keep in consideration.

jhmtehgamr20xx said:
Unfortunately for these two globalization just mainly means the expansion of Western (mostly American) corporations and cultural sensibilities to the rest of the world, and America hasn't resolved its own problems and history regarding racism, so other countries basically have to abide by American ideas on this front even if their history is much different. And sometimes that's a good thing (Zwarte Piet), but other times it's not.
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This is another issue that bothers me a lot. There is a carnival in my country where people paint their faces black, its part of a much bigger celebration, but from some of the responses here the mere act of black paint in the face is unacceptable, and I just can't agree with that. Zwarte Piet should be judged by its own history and background, I actually had no idea such a character existed so I'm not sure I can pass judgement on it right now without reading more about it, but as I said, its own background should be its measuring stick, not other country's.
 
I suppose since I second guess myself everytime this type of thing happens, I figure this really is the best place to ask. I'm sure there are a few decent posts in this thread that would give me good insight but I don't think I'd be able to find them in any meaningful amount of time since so much of this thread is still gross responses.

My main (only) reservation is just "no blackface" being a binary decision. I mean that blackface is *always* wrong no matter the context. And I get to that because I feel like dressing up is not inherently wrong if you want to portray yourself as someone or something else in a friendly context. Now I understand a couple problems that come from this:
1) Being allowed to "dress up" and not have the true weight or burden or reality of whatever or whoever you roleplay is demeaning to those who are oppressed
2) Most of the time it (blackface) is done to demean or make fun or just be truly antagonistic and racist
3) There is just a ton of racist weight and history behind blackface itself

I think for me it's that it's hard to separate blackface completely from "cosplaying" or "dressing up". In my mind, it is still that despite its history, and there *can* exist a context where it simply is done for the sake of just being in cosplay or roleplay. So I can't just put a blanket judgment on all blackface (though it is almost universally done with in a demeaning slant). And for me this applies to dressing up as anybody because it's fundamentally just dressing up. Is there more insight anyone could give me to break that barrier? Because I'm struggling to just completely separate the two as different acts.
 
weekev said:
I mean, I had no idea folks found this so offensive. First time I looked at it I just thought it was a shit costume. Read through the thread and can see why folks find it offensive now. Thanks for the education GAF.
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Seriously people, how hard is this? I know it's fun to just jump in with a "don't know what the big deal is" but I swear to God, is it worth it?

IS IT WORTH IT
 
mantidor said:
There is a carnival in my country where people paint their faces black, its part of a much bigger celebration, but from some of the responses here the mere act of black paint in the face is unacceptable, and I just can't agree with that.
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Do they put on black paint because they're mocking black people or people with dark skin? If it is, I can see why people would think it's unacceptable.
 
Zocano said:
My main (only) reservation is just "no blackface" being a binary decision. I mean that blackface is *always* wrong no matter the context. And I get to that because I feel like dressing up is not inherently wrong if you want to portray yourself as someone or something else in a friendly context. Now I understand a couple problems that come from this:
1) Being allowed to "dress up" and not have the true weight or burden or reality of whatever or whoever you roleplay is demeaning to those who are oppressed
2) Most of the time it (blackface) is done to demean or make fun or just be truly antagonistic and racist
3) There is just a ton of racist weight and history behind blackface itself

I think for me it's that it's hard to separate blackface completely from "cosplaying" or "dressing up". In my mind, it is still that despite its history, and there *can* exist a context where it simply is done for the sake of just being in cosplay or roleplay. So I can't just put a blanket judgment on all blackface (though it is almost universally done with in a demeaning slant). And for me this applies to dressing up as anybody because it's fundamentally just dressing up. Is there more insight anyone could give me to break that barrier? Because I'm struggling to just completely separate the two as different acts.
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"I get why killing is wrong, but I can't just put a blanket judgment on all killing."

This is farther than I've ever seen anyone go just to say "yeah, but..."

So what I'm gathering is: people can list the reasons why something is objectively wrong, can eloquently describe other people's opinions as to why it's wrong, and yet still bemoan how unfair it is that they can't do that thing.
 
Popping in for the second time after thread was started to see if we got to the Rachel Dolezal vibes...i see we did. Not surprised at that ban count neither.
 
Not said:
"I get why killing is wrong, but I can't just put a blanket judgment on all killing."

This is farther than I've ever seen anyone go just to say "yeah, but..."

So what I'm gathering is: people can list the reasons why something is objectively wrong, can eloquently describe other people's opinions as to why it's wrong, and yet still bemoan how unfair it is that they can't do that thing.
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I don't think that analogy works very well.

I am just trying to explain where I'm coming from and why I'm having reservations about the whole issue.
 
Japanmanx3 said:
Popping in for the second time after thread was started to see if we got to the Rachel Dolezal vibes...i see we did. Not surprised at that ban count neither.
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What are Rachel Dolezal vibes? Is she vilified? Someone already called Kylie Jenner "Dolezal-lite" and I wasn't clear on the intention.
 
EloquentM said:
And I think people should respect the historical context behind black face no matter what context they want to justify it with. It's literally the same reason the majority of black people have a problem with other races saying nigga. It's about respect and people who constantly do this every fucking year should absolutely not have a platform to stand on. It's a disgusting tradition and those who continue to support it should be berated, and rightfully so.
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Oh, this is a good eloquent explanation for me (way earlier in the thread). Or at least you said this in a manner that makes it very clear to me.
 
Zocano said:
I don't think that analogy works very well.

I am just trying to explain where I'm coming from and why I'm having reservations about the whole issue.
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Yeah, I suck at analogies, but I was hoping it would be blunt enough to help you understand that just because things can be "acceptable" in very, very, very specialized situations, doesn't make them worth defending. You wouldn't be so attached to your core hypothesis-- that it's not a binary issue of right or wrong-- unless you were truly, truly invested in being allowed to paint your skin darker in order to emulate another person, to the point where you have to dig incredibly deep and grasp at some incredibly short straws in order to do so.

It's been said earlier in the thread, but when people are privileged, the only things they want more than anything else are what they're told they can't have.

EDIT:

Zocano said:
Oh, this is a good eloquent explanation for me (way earlier in the thread). Or at least you said this in a manner that makes it very clear to me.
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Oh OK, sweet. Sometimes I have a problem assuming positive intent, especially in threads like this one.
 
mac said:
What are Rachel Dolezal vibes? Is she vilified? Someone already called Kylie Jenner "Dolezal-lite" and I wasn't clear on the intention.
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I suppose the factor of appropriating something for your whole life--rather than just for Halloween--would come into play somehow.
 
I haven't read the thread and probably won't, but this shit happens every year.

I don't think it's racist and I don't think there's any hatred for anyone, but it's insensitive. Black face has a bad history and that needs to be taken into account when you plan your stupid Halloween costume.
 
mac said:
What are Rachel Dolezal vibes? Is she vilified? Someone already called Kylie Jenner "Dolezal-lite" and I wasn't clear on the intention.
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My intention was just saying that "racial dressup" is not okay with me in any form; Halloween costumes, going full Dolezal, or whatever the hell Kylie is doing. I don't believe you can or should turn racial identity into something you can just "play as" because it's not something that can really be taken that lightly. Even if your intentions are trying to be positive, and you think the race you're dressing up as is amazing and great (which is *not* what people who paint themselves for Halloween are doing), you're being appropriative and disrespectful of the baggage that comes with being a member of that race. Trying to take the good parts of being in that race when you never have to deal with the bad is not showing respect.
 
mantidor said:
See, this is the issue, I was aware of blackface, I was not aware of how popular it actually was and how degrading and dehumanizing it could actually be. The first paragraph of wikipedia really doesn't give you this knowledge, neither do the main picture on the page. I deduced it when reading more thoroughly, and watching the video of Bamboozled posted in the thread.

Most of the exposure to blackface outside of the US comes from maybe stuff in Tom and Jerry cartoons, and they are so rare, sporadic and tamed down that many just don't see the issue, because on the surface blackface seems to be putting on black make-up and just that. Black makeup in itself is just not offensive for most people outside the US. And then you get the shocked responses "you are being too sensitive" of some people here in the thread. I do agree people should be more respectful, and after all GAF is mostly an american forum, this is something that you just have to keep in consideration.



This is another issue that bothers me a lot. There is a carnival in my country where people paint their faces black, its part of a much bigger celebration, but from some of the responses here the mere act of black paint in the face is unacceptable, and I just can't agree with that. Zwarte Piet should be judged by its own history and background, I actually had no idea such a character existed so I'm not sure I can pass judgement on it right now without reading more about it, but as I said, its own background should be its measuring stick, not other country's.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwarte_Piet

Wiki seems to think it's racist and I agree.
 
Oh, yah I agree it's fair to not just assume everyone has a real desire to change when it comes to issues like this. In this case I guess I was just stuck on thinking that because it *can* be okay means it's fine to do (and inherently "okay") when that doesn't actually apply with blackface anymore. The history of it has changed it too much from just cosplaying/roleplaying and I understand that now, I think.
 
How does this keep going. 😂😂😂 Just how many fucked up juniors do we have to sacrifice their accounts for this.
 
Slayven said:
1492607196062741285_nww08x.png

http://www.complex.com/style/2015/10/student-nicki-minaj-blackface-costume

Really Nicki isn't even that dark
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http://fox43.com/2015/10/27/twitter...er-to-task-for-blackface-nicki-minaj-costume/

Not only did Emma receive a series of angry replies to the tweets, but offended parties also found out what high school she attends and what college she’s applying to. She has now deleted her Twitter account but several people have already emailed her high school and alerted the University of Florida, where she’s applying for school next fall.

The dean of Emma’s high school began emailing out a form letter reading, “Thank you for the information. Our administration is investigating this.”
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rip
 
Massive Duck said:
This type of thing is going way too far. Pointing and giggling at people in blackface (especially shittu blackface) is fine, but trying to fuck up their present and future is doing too much
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Nope!

They did this to themselves. Nobody forced them to take the picture. What people do after the fact is just history. I bet she wont try this shit again. She will get into a college just not the one she wants.
 
Internet bullies give every just cause a bad name

EDIT: Although she can't blame said bullies for her deciding to wear blackface
 
Crud said:
Nope!

They did this to themselves. Nobody forced them to take the picture. What people do after the fact is just history. I bet she wont try this shit again. She will get into a college just not the one she wants.
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Nah

Pragmatically, trying to prevent her from getting into college (where she might actually learn something) has no real benefit for randoms on the net. Dragging her is fine though
 
Massive Duck said:
Nah

Pragmatically, trying to prevent her from getting into college (where she might actually learn something) has no real benefit for randoms on the net. Dragging her is fine though
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This is how she learns. There are consequences to her actions. I'm sorry people want to hold her accountable and it scares you.

EDIT: Shitty blackface is there a blackface you prefer? Please explain.
 
uncelestial said:
My intention was just saying that "racial dressup" is not okay with me in any form; Halloween costumes, going full Dolezal, or whatever the hell Kylie is doing. I don't believe you can or should turn racial identity into something you can just "play as" because it's not something that can really be taken that lightly. Even if your intentions are trying to be positive, and you think the race you're dressing up as is amazing and great (which is *not* what people who paint themselves for Halloween are doing), you're being appropriative and disrespectful of the baggage that comes with being a member of that race. Trying to take the good parts of being in that race when you never have to deal with the bad is not showing respect.
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I guess if you are saying she looks like she's painted up like a Halloween character because of all the make-up (not cool to say) then that makes sense.

uncelestial said:
Kylie-Jenner.jpg'
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And I wasn't aware that Rachel Dolezal had become a figure of contempt among the black community. Although not black herself she identifies enough to become a leader of the NAACP. If she's doing that much social work I don't think she's just dressing up to look cool.
 
mac said:
And I wasn't aware that Rachel Dolezal had become a figure of contempt among the black community. Although not black herself she identifies enough to become a leader of the NAACP. If she's doing that much social work I don't think she's just dressing up to look cool.
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...

Either you don't know anything at all about that entire chain of events, or this is a joke post.
 
Evening Musuko said:
Do they put on black paint because they're mocking black people or people with dark skin? If it is, I can see why people would think it's unacceptable.
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Well not at all, and I think it's the farthest thing from blackface. But as I said, I feel people take issue with just the mere act of applying black makeup.

The carnival of blacks and whites (Carnaval de blancos y negros) happens in the southern part of Colombia, and its the result of many, many different traditions and syncretisms, from native american celebrations to the moon to celebrations from african slaves to the obvious european influences of carnaval itself. It lasts around a week, but the main important days are the blacks day and the whites day.

It's supposed to be a "game", people roam the streets to try to "paint" as many people as possible with black cosmetics, while screaming "vivan los negros!", there are also parades, floats, etc, etc, needless to say most people pretty much end up completely painted in black.

carnavalBYNg.png
blancos-negros07.jpg
carnavalaa.jpg
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White's day is kind of the opposite, except that this time its flour and foam, with the main parade with giant floats, people scream "vivan los blancos" (I know, equal opportunity and all :P).
rbquhhtr-1278827085-bg.jpg
Colombia-Narino-Pasto-Carnaval-De-Negros-Y-Blancos-611.jpg
352747_112245_5.jpg
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That last one there? it's the freaking president of the country. No one is spared.
 
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