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[shaowebb]

He should be in jail, but 162 years does constitute cruel and unusual punishment in my eyes. He deserved a good several years for that junk, but that amount of time with no hope of parole for this is more than a little absurd. If they're going to use a stacking thing it should have an optional cap a judge can utilize with discretion or something, because this is just a bit much.

 

[Joni]

Walking in with a gun with no intent to ever shoot it at anyone trumps murder.

But he did shoot it showing he had intent to use it if necessary.

Yeah, the guy should be in jail. He should be in jail for a long time even, but not from 18 until he's dead. Not when he was 18 and this was his first offense. There aren't many crimes someone could commit in that situation where I'd feel like they deserved to be locked away for life. Murder and rape are actually the only examples I can think of.

It wasn't his first offense. It was his first trial. He commited seven known offenses.

If the penalty for armed robbery is 5 years and the penalty for second degree murder is 25 years for example, he should have gotten 35 years max. Not over 100 years.

The penalty is 10 to 20 years for one count of armed robbery.

 

[Zaptruder]

Dear "But I wouldn't shed a tear for a criminal" crowd... of course you wouldn't. Your stone cold motherfucker on the inside.

But surely that isn't a catchall for - "if you do anything illegal, they could rape you kill you, and I wouldn't give a shit"?


The jay-walking mother fucker. Littered on the sidewalk too. Then shoved a granny. He deserves to be drawn and quartered.

 

[womfalcs3]

Just because it's the first time he's been caught doesn't mean he should be treated like a first-time offender. Good for the judge to run those sentences consecutively. Maybe he should've put parole on the table though.

 

[Vagabundo]

The jay-walking mother fucker. Littered on the sidewalk too. Then shoved a granny. He deserves to be drawn and quartered.

Three strikes man. He made his choice.

 

[nelsonroyale]

What a waste of life and tax payers money...the judge should at least donate some of his income to pay for the sentancing and volunteer to take on 155 odd of those years himself...a failure of the justice system for employing a fool who could pass this sentance

Its amazing how risk averse our society has become though....some people seem to actually think that because he had a gun and may have threatened to shoot people, that is actually as bad as shooting and killing somebody....its all about potential. I dont agree with that at all.

 

[mre]

That is because it was worded like ass.



Then in my next post I asked for something different, which was about the trials. Which was kinda what I meant in my first post. My bad. So let me rephrase it:

Was there a trial for each robbery, or was it one trial for the whole string of them?

He was indicted on, at least, seven counts of armed robbery, conspiracy to commit armed robbery, and probably some charges related to discharging his firearm. All of these indictments were addressed at one trial.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

1 murder compared to 7 armed robberies is not the same thing as comparing the number 1 to the number 7. Try again.

If the penalty for armed robbery is 5 years and the penalty for second degree murder is 25 years for example, he should have gotten 35 years max. Not over 100 years.

What's with the condescending tone? He got charged and penalized for a lot more than just armed robbery since he fired a gun twice. Where are you getting the 5 years from? Or did you just make that up?

Edit: Again, how do you get him never having the intent to use it but shooting it multiple times. I know when I don't intend to use something, I don't, ya know, use it...

Dear "But I wouldn't shed a tear for a criminal" crowd... of course you wouldn't. Your stone cold motherfucker on the inside.

But surely that isn't a catchall for - "if you do anything illegal, they could rape you kill you, and I wouldn't give a shit"?


The jay-walking mother fucker. Littered on the sidewalk too. Then shoved a granny. He deserves to be drawn and quartered.

Yes, they're obviously saying they hope people who litter and jaywalk get raped. You got them. Can you stick anymore logical fallacies in your post?

 

[Joni]

Edit: Again, how do you get him never having the intent to use it but shooting it multiple times. I know when I don't intend to use something, I don't, ya know, use it...

And even if he didn't fire it: I don't even own stuff I don't intend to use. Why bring something you don't intend to use?

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Dear "But I wouldn't shed a tear for a criminal" crowd... of course you wouldn't. Your stone cold motherfucker on the inside.

But surely that isn't a catchall for - "if you do anything illegal, they could rape you kill you, and I wouldn't give a shit"?


The jay-walking mother fucker. Littered on the sidewalk too. Then shoved a granny. He deserves to be drawn and quartered.

Fuck this bullshit. Have you ever had a gun pointed in your face by someone who could snuff your life out in the blink of an eye just cause he mad? I have. So I have no sympathy for a douchebag through his own douchebaggery got his ass thrown in the slammer.

Not. One. Fuck. Given.

I shed plenty of tears for non-violent drug offenders. Whom make up the OVERWHELMING majority of prison inmates. I shed tears for innocent people convicted of crime they never did. But this guy? Nope. As far as the courts go...using a gun as a threat in the commission of a crime and discharging it is inherently violent and I have no sympathy for someone that made a shitty choice like that. This guy isn't a political prisoner. He's an asshole that decided to rob people. And he didn't fucking stop until he got busted.

So stop with the hyperbole. If you're going to disagree, disagree with what people are ACTUALLY saying. Don't put words in their mouths.

 

[Zaptruder]

Fuck this bullshit. Have you ever had a gun pointed in your face by someone who could snuff your life out in the blink of an eye just cause he mad? I have. So I have no sympathy for a douchebag through his own douchebaggery got his ass thrown in the slammer.

Not. One. Fuck. Given.

I shed plenty of tears for non-violent drug offenders. Whom make up the OVERWHELMING majority of prison inmates. I shed tears for innocent people convicted of crime they never did. But this guy? Nope. As far as the courts go...using a gun as a threat in the commission of a crime and discharging it is inherently violent and I have no sympathy for someone that made a shitty choice like that. This guy isn't a political prisoner. He's an asshole that decided to rob people. And he didn't fucking stop until he got busted.

So stop with the hyperbole. If you're going to disagree, disagree with what people are ACTUALLY saying. Don't put words in their mouths.

I'm using the hyperbole to point out the fallacy of dehumanizing all criminals on the basis that they did something illegal.

At what point is it acceptable to turn a blind eye to the injustices of the state? What arbitrary line are you going to draw? Is a domestic abuse charge sufficient? Is physical punishment of your own child considered domestic abuse? If people step over that line, can we just leave them to the wolves so to speak?


Personally, I think the whole idea of creating these lines that allow us to go - yep, that guy is no longer human, we don't need to consider any outcome against him against the framework and understanding of his humanity - he's now just a vehicle for our angst and injustice in this world, a vehicle for our thirst for vengeance - something that makes us more like them... like the people that are willing to take lives unjustly... and less like the people we should be - people that are willing to recognize humanity and justice in all situations and forms - not just on a contextual basis - be it the context of criminal activity, or the context of different national boundaries and cultures.

 

[The Faceless Master]

Question for those who are ok with the 160+ years of jail time for this guy: do you think the state should just execute him? If not, why?

do you think a terminally ill cancer patient that murders a few dozen people shouldn't be charged with any crimes?

 

[Vermillion]

As a student of international law based in Europe, your legal system is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen in my entire life. It manages to be even more shocking and dysfunctional than the one in Saudi Arabia, because at least theirs can be excused considering the country they live in. As someone who has visited and loves your culture and most of your past history and hopes to establish a home there, I must confess I do not understand how you are not shamed by the past 30 years of your country's history. There is something deeply wrong with the way you guys do things there, and your legal, educational and healthcare systems happen to be the places where it is most evident.

Ah, there we go:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=481479

 

[AndyD]

Just because it's the first time he's been caught doesn't mean he should be treated like a first-time offender. Good for the judge to run those sentences consecutively. Maybe he should've put parole on the table though.

This. A lot of people keep saying first offender, but he is not. This may be the first time he is caught but that does not make all crimes committed prior to being caught one event.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

I'm using the hyperbole to point out the fallacy of dehumanizing all criminals on the basis that they did something illegal.

At what point is it acceptable to turn a blind eye to the injustices of the state? What arbitrary line are you going to draw? Is a domestic abuse charge sufficient? Is physical punishment of your own child considered domestic abuse? If people step over that line, can we just leave them to the wolves so to speak?


Personally, I think the whole idea of creating these lines that allow us to go - yep, that guy is no longer human, we don't need to consider any outcome against him against the framework and understanding of his humanity - he's now just a vehicle for our angst and injustice in this world, a vehicle for our thirst for vengeance - something that makes us more like them... like the people that are willing to take lives unjustly... and less like the people we should be - people that are willing to recognize humanity and justice in all situations and forms - not just on a contextual basis - be it the context of criminal activity, or the context of different national boundaries and cultures.

I draw the line when a douchebag picks up a gun and commits armed robbery 1...2...3...4....5...6...7...times. This is the core of my point and I'm not going to stray away from it and have a pseudo-psychological debate about "the context of criminal activity and the context of different national boundaries and cultures". Maybe he shouldn't have dehumanized himself or his victims when he picked up a gun and robbed 7 locations. It's not about vengeance, it's about keeping a dangerous person away from society. Give me a break with the bleeding heart bullshit. This isn't a political prisoner. It's an asshole that made shitty choices and got what was coming for him. I feel bad but him and only him was responsible for his own undoing.

 

[Zaptruder]

I draw the line when a douchebag picks up a gun and commits armed robbery 1...2...3...4....5...6...7...times. This is the core of my point and I'm not going to stray away from it and have a pseudo-psychological debate about "the context of criminal activity and the context of different national boundaries and cultures". Maybe he shouldn't have dehumanized himself or his victims when he picked up a gun and robbed 7 locations. It's not about vengeance, it's about keeping a dangerous person away from society. Give me a break with the bleeding heart bullshit. This isn't a political prisoner. It's an asshole that made shitty choices and got what was coming for him. I feel bad but him and only him was responsible for his own undoing.

Man, go fuck yourself with your retarded machoman perjoratives. Bleeding heart, pseudo-psychological? Seriously?

The point is simple you blood thirsty knucklehead (you like that?) - we should treat the worst of our society as humans so that we remember to treat each other humanely. Every time we draw a line and ignore the fate/humanity of everyone that sinks under that line - when the line can differ so dramatically from person to person based on their opinions and beliefs, we reinforce the attitude or idea within society that there are people that deserve inhuman hate and scorn.

In this case, yeah, 100+ years in prison, 7 seperate armed robberies or not, is a particularly cruel and unusual punishment - removing any and all chance of hope at seeing the world again - something that we don't really do for murderers or rapists by default. And it's not because I care about some guy that goes out and commits 7 armed robberies - it's because I care about the damage to our social psyche that's A-OK about dehumanizing, disproportionate rulings that is in many ways, a miscarriage of justice.

The thing is... my view isn't particularly uncommon - it exists in most civilized western parts of the world - places that have abolished the death penalty as a nation, that have for the most part made concurrent jail terms the legal standard.

When you compare the outcomes of the entire American judicial system to that of other nations - prison rate, costs, recidivism - it's hard not to make the argument that there's something deeply, systemically flawed there. My point is that a large part of it stems from societal attitudes about the humanity of people - you guys see it as a privilege to lose; like a driving license... where as a lot of the rest of the world (indeed, much of America - but not enough) see it as something innate to people.

 

[RobotMafia]

Yeah, this is fucked. He deserves jail, but he is also young and does deserve an actual chance at rehabilitation (which this country really doesnt give a fuck about).

 

[Forever]

you blood thirsty knucklehead (you like that?)

Wow.

 

[Chumly]

I still can't believe people are defending this. Its absolutely disgusting. Most of the people that will end up supporting this are also probably anti government spending which is ironic considering how much the moronic sentence is going to cost us.

 

[RiccochetJ]

I still can't believe people are defending this. Its absolutely disgusting. Most of the people that will end up supporting this are also probably anti government spending which is ironic considering how much the moronic sentence is going to cost us.

No one is defending what happened. Get that through your head.

 

[Attackthebase]

I'm for death for armed robbery so meh.

I'm damn happy that only the minority holds that viewpoint.

 

[Joni]

The thing is... my view isn't particularly uncommon - it exists in most civilized western parts of the world - places that have abolished the death penalty as a nation, that have for the most part made concurrent jail terms the legal standard.

In what nation do you get to sit out two jail terms at the same time? How many Western nations still have life as a punishment? And how many times have you had a gun pointed at your head?

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Man, go fuck yourself with your retarded machoman perjoratives. Bleeding heart, pseudo-psychological? Seriously?

So you throw personal insults when you disagree with someone? Really? Seriously? Grow up dude. It's not "machoman" or "bloodthirsty" to want to keep a bad person locked up. I'd say a seven time armed robber fits that bill pretty snuggly.

The point is simple you blood thirsty knucklehead (you like that?) - we should treat the worst of our society as humans so that we remember to treat each other humanely. Every time we draw a line and ignore the fate/humanity of everyone that sinks under that line - when the line can differ so dramatically from person to person based on their opinions and beliefs, we reinforce the attitude or idea within society that there are people that deserve inhuman hate and scorn.

I agree with treating them like humans. Humans in jail. Don't want to be locked up for a long time...don't commit 7 armed robberies. It's not rocket science. Go cry for kids locked up for 40 years because they were involved in drugs. Not a douchebag using a gun in his robberies.

In this case, yeah, 100+ years in prison, 7 seperate armed robberies or not, is a particularly cruel and unusual punishment - removing any and all chance of hope at seeing the world again - something that we don't really do for murderers or rapists by default. And it's not because I care about some guy that goes out and commits 7 armed robberies - it's because I care about the damage to our social psyche that's A-OK about dehumanizing, disproportionate rulings that is in many ways, a miscarriage of justice.

I can't justify his sentence, I didn't give it to him. Would I personally have handed down that sentence? No. But like I said, I don't give a shit of pity about an armed robber. Sorry. Once again, if you've been on the receiving end of this shit you wouldn't be complaining about the poor dehumanized armed robber. He's responsible for his choices and where they took him, not me, not you, and not the system.

The thing is... my view isn't particularly uncommon - it exists in most civilized western parts of the world - places that have abolished the death penalty as a nation, that have for the most part made concurrent jail terms the legal standard.

When you compare the outcomes of the entire American judicial system to that of other nations - prison rate, costs, recidivism - it's hard not to make the argument that there's something deeply, systemically flawed there. My point is that a large part of it stems from societal attitudes about the humanity of people - you guys see it as a privilege to lose; like a driving license... where as a lot of the rest of the world (indeed, much of America - but not enough) see it as something innate to people.

Of course there's something fundamentally flawed in the US justice system. Putting a 7 timed armed robber away for life isn't one of them. I'd be more focused on non-violent drug offenders....but that's just me. Everyone has humanity. But everyone also has a choice what they do with their humanity. I don't have much of a give-a-shit about people that point guns at people because they want money. I completely concede that jails are fucked up and the system needs to be reformed, with that said....this sums it up.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

I still can't believe people are defending this. Its absolutely disgusting. Most of the people that will end up supporting this are also probably anti government spending which is ironic considering how much the moronic sentence is going to cost us.

I'm not defending it. I'm just saying he brought it on himself when he picked up a gun and did the armed robberies. That's really my main point. I can't bring myself to feel bad about him being locked up. Can't do it. I'm sad he made the shitty choices he made but he made them.

Would it be better for society if we at least TRIED to reform? Absolutely. But there's no magical formula to reach people like that. You can do your best and they still choose the wrong path.

 

[Timedog]

I think the major difference between US and Europe is this:

USA = jail is to punish criminals
Europe = jail is to rehabilitate people

It's a big philosophical gap, which I think is especially painful in a situation like this. Rather than locking up a disadvantaged kid for life to become a high cost & ruin his life, I think the European system would've mandated education in prison and aimed to restore this guy to society.

Our incarceration rate should give a glimpse at how well the US philosophy is working. Greatest country in the world!

Spoiler

It's probably Obama's fault.

 

[Row]

I was expecting to read about an innocent man unjustly charged...instead it's a typical scumbag. The sentence is ridiculous no doubt, but he'd never be in this mess if he hadn't taken part in this crap.

 

[Timedog]

I was expecting to read about an innocent man unjustly charged...instead it's a typical scumbag. The sentence is ridiculous no doubt, but he'd never be in this mess if he hadn't taken part in this crap.

If someone received life in prison for stealing a candy bar, you could say the exact same thing, and it would be the exact same logic that you are using. It has no place in the discussion.

 

[Row]

If someone received life in prison for stealing a candy bar, you could say the exact same thing, and it would be the exact same logic that you are using. It has no place in the discussion.

if he stole that candy bar in an armed robbery, and did it multiple times, sure

 

[Timedog]

if he stole that candy bar in an armed robbery, and did it multiple times, sure

The "If he hadn't taken part in this he wouldn't have to worry about it" line of thinking adds absolutely nothing to the discussion. Or do you really think you're informing anyone of some sort of new information or a new interesting thought? If he hadn't done the crime he wouldn't be in jail--yeah, that's painfully obvious, and has nothing to do with the discussion.

 

[Joni]

A Chicago man who spent more than 30 years behind bars before DNA evidence helped overturn his conviction in the rape and killing of a 3-year-old girl was released from prison late Friday, just hours after prosecutors dropped the case against him.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/07/andre-davis-released_n_1655914.html

-> Stuff like this is why hardly anybody cares about someone that committed seven counts of armed robbery.

 

[Arthrus]

if he stole that candy bar in an armed robbery, and did it multiple times, sure

Timedog is correct. As are the posters who point out that his sentence would have no effective difference than if he murdered everyone he robbed. The fact that he never actually hurt another human and was thrown under a bus by his conspirators (for a plea bargain he was never offered) suggests he should have a similar sentence to theirs.

They received 9 to 22 years in prison for the same stuff that got him his sentence. He should get the same. Personally, I believe 15 to 20 years would be appropriate for his crimes.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Timedog is correct. As are the posters who point out that his sentence would have no effective difference than if he murdered everyone he robbed. The fact that he never actually hurt another human and was thrown under a bus by his conspirators (for a plea bargain he was never offered) suggests he should have a similar sentence to theirs.

They received 9 to 22 years in prison for the same stuff that got him his sentence. He should get the same. Personally, I believe 15 to 20 years would be appropriate for his crimes.

I agree completely. It's definitely not the sentence I would have chosen for him. But as it is (not as it should be) I just don't have any sympathy for a dude robbing people and threatening people with mortal violence.

 

[Timedog]

I agree completely. It's definitely not the sentence I would have chosen for him. But as it is (not as it should be) I just don't have any sympathy for a dude robbing people and threatening people with mortal violence.

The greater issue is the system itself rather than a specific case. He does deserve to be locked away for a long time.

 

[spwolf]

Dear "But I wouldn't shed a tear for a criminal" crowd... of course you wouldn't. Your stone cold motherfucker on the inside.

But surely that isn't a catchall for - "if you do anything illegal, they could rape you kill you, and I wouldn't give a shit"?


The jay-walking mother fucker. Littered on the sidewalk too. Then shoved a granny. He deserves to be drawn and quartered.

so, it is perfectly fine to be ringleader in 7 armed robberies and shoot around, poor fella, i feel it for him. Definitively the same as jay-walking.

what do you think what would he do if he got back on the streets in 10? Find a job? Or?

his objections seem to be the fact that he wasnt offered plea bargain - but ringleaders never are. Purpose of plea bargain is to convict most responsible person, and plus other guys got 9 to 20, it is not like they got out of it easy.

 

[Joni]

his objections seem to be the fact that he wasnt offered plea bargain - but ringleaders never are. Purpose of plea bargain is to convict most responsible person, and plus other guys got 9 to 20, it is not like they got out of it easy.

To get a plea bargain you also have to plead guilty, which they did and he didn't. He wanted to get out of it without any jailtime.

 

[Arthrus]

so, it is perfectly fine to be ringleader in 7 armed robberies and shoot around, poor fella, i feel it for him. Definitively the same as jay-walking.

what do you think what would he do if he got back on the streets in 10? Find a job? Or?

his objections seem to be the fact that he wasnt offered plea bargain - but ringleaders never are. Purpose of plea bargain is to convict most responsible person, and plus other guys got 9 to 20, it is not like they got out of it easy.

Nobody has objections to a long prison sentence for what Davis did. The issue is whether the length of his sentence, relative to what others get for similar crimes (or more severe crimes such as murder), is appropriate. Given that the others got significantly shorter sentences, it is questionable that his was over 100 years.

That said, you misread the information from the article and might reconsider part of your opinion...

Davis, who was not identified as the group's ringleader, claims he was never offered a plea bargain.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Out of curiosity, were the people who are outraged over this sentence this angry and acting as such when madoff was sentenced with his absurd sentence? I don't remember anyone really being mad on gaf but rather people being happy he got what he deserved and he got fucked so much harder than this guy could.

Just curious on the seemingly huge difference in reactions.

 

[NeoUltima]

Out of curiosity, were the people who are outraged over this sentence this angry and acting as such when madoff was sentenced with his absurd sentence? I don't remember anyone really being mad on gaf but rather people being happy he got what he deserved and he got fucked so much harder than this guy could.

Just curious on the seemingly huge difference in reactions.

I guess it's the idea that Madoff was a grown-up, educated man. He should have known better.
I also doubt this kid stole nearly as much money lol.

 

[Chumly]

Out of curiosity, were the people who are outraged over this sentence this angry and acting as such when madoff was sentenced with his absurd sentence? I don't remember anyone really being mad on gaf but rather people being happy he got what he deserved and he got fucked so much harder than this guy could.

Just curious on the seemingly huge difference in reactions.

Yea i heard these guys almost stole as much money as Madoff

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Yea i heard these guys almost stole as much money as Madoff

No instead they threatened people with guns. So it's cool to threaten people with guns and shoot your gun but it's horrible and deserves the absolute max of 150 years if you steal money from rich people?

I guess it's the idea that Madoff was a grown-up, educated man. He should have known better.
I also doubt this kid stole nearly as much money lol.

Why shouldn't this person know better? He was also an adult.

 

[User Name Here]

"Davis was convicted of participating in a string of armed robberies in the Miami area in 2010."

I'm all for addressing the root cause of a problem and not the effects of it, but come on....