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[Deleted member 47027]

Cannot WAIT to get my hands on this:

http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ytr-vtr-toru-together-2-translation-project

 

[Pristine_Condition]

Realistic? The whole obsession with huge heavyweight wrestlers was primarily because they were 'larger than life', not because they just looked like your average joe. Size has nothing to do with making a match believable or realistic, two things I'd never attribute to a Buff Bagwell match.

Yeah. Buff is clearly an idiot.

I mean, if the bodybuilder look makes you a realistic fighter, Phil Baroni would have never lost a fight in the UFC. Instead, if he didn't finish a guy in the first round, it was highly likely dude would predictably gas out and get pounded.

And the current #1 contender to Jon Jones' belt and the guy voted by the fans to be on the cover if the UFC Videogame, Alexander Gustafsson, looks about as impressive physique-wise as CM Punk.

 

[BronsonLee]

And the current #1 contender to Jon Jones' belt and the guy voted by the fans to be on the cover if the UFC Videogame, Alexander Gustafsson, looks about as impressive physique-wise as CM Punk.

Yo, can we talk about why the hell Gustafsson was on a damn FightPass card? The hell is that shit?
Dana trying to BURY

 

[Deleted member 47027]

Yo, can we talk about why the hell Gustafsson was on a damn FightPass card? The hell is that shit?
Dana trying to BURY

FightPass is buried deeper than Jimmy Hoffa's body.

 

[charsace]

Oh Buff...

Buff is right. Cena is nothing special, he came along at the right time and got pushed right and was given the right move set. Most of the guys that WWE sells fans as having "it" is due to how they book them. Look at Roman Reigns. Can't really talk or wrestle. He uses a high impact move set, gets the hot spots, hardly gets pinned, and is paired up with two charismatic guys who carry everything until the climax and because of that Reigns is over. Randy Orton has been top 5 in the company for most of the time he has been there. If you take a young Buff Bagwell and put him in this current era where they push guys based on their looks he would bet pushed relentlessly and Buff has the temperament to work with a Mojo Rawley character. Cena isn't the Rock, Austin, or even Michaels who jobbed and still got over with the fans. Cena is Hulk Hogan without the charisma and comes off phony.

 

[somedevil]

News on Lockdown Attendance:

According to one TNA source, there were only around 900 tickets sold for last night's Lockdown pay-per-view before it began.

Ouch. Wonder how much papered attendance they did.

 

[slightconfuse]

WWE: heres wrestlemania

UFC: here is fight night Madagascar

 

[Aiii]

Buff is right. Cena is nothing special, he came along at the right time and got pushed right and was given the right move set. Most of the guys that WWE sells fans as having "it" is due to how they book them. Look at Roman Reigns. Can't really talk or wrestle. He uses a high impact move set, gets the hot spots, hardly gets pinned, and is paired up with two charismatic guys who carry everything until the climax and because of that Reigns is over. Randy Orton has been top 5 in the company for most of the time he has been there. If you take a young Buff Bagwell and put him in this current era where they push guys based on their looks he would bet pushed relentlessly and Buff has the temperament to work with a Mojo Rawley character. Cena isn't the Rock, Austin, or even Michaels who jobbed and still got over with the fans. Cena is Hulk Hogan without the charisma and comes off phony.

You...
1) Are grossly underestimating Cena.
2) Should really go back and watch Buff Bagwell matches, because he really wasn't as good as you remember.

 

[Batigol]

Oh Buff...

I don't know man. He's kinda right about Cena and Punk

 

[Deleted member 47027]

Well, how much is Cena's success attributed to Cena vs the WWE itself?

 

[krae_man]

News on Lockdown Attendance:



Ouch. Wonder how much papered attendance they did.

That probably includes the papering.

 

[krae_man]

Oh Buff...

95% of Cena's character is "the guy who wins all the time" So it is kind of true that anyone can do it.

 

[Sokantish]

krae_man, how could ANYONE do it when they lose a lot more often than Cena does? Ever think of that?

 

[BronsonLee]

WWE: heres wrestlemania

UFC: here is fight night Madagascar

To be fair to UFC, I could argue the on demand library being far superior, if a bit harder to find (they literally put up everything), the live content is still quite a lot, and of course we weren't getting the PPVs... but no Fox related cards without paying?

Garbage.

 

[krae_man]

krae_man, how could ANYONE do it when they lose a lot more often than Cena does? Ever think of that?

Well that is true. Nobody can replace Cena because they won't let anyone replace him. They also don't let the roster under him perform to their full abilities because that would make the standard Cena match look like crap. Although they did let the Wyatt's and Shield Go.

 

[Seraphis Cain]

Oh hey, Ryder's doing a thing again.

 

[jred2k]

Well, how much is Cena's success attributed to Cena vs the WWE itself?

I think a lot of Cena's success is due to, no pun intended, his loyalty. Aside from Orton, just about everyone else Vince has put a lot of money behind the past 10 years or so either hasn't panned out or has left cause they thought they could be bigger somewhere else.

So to reply to your question, I think it is really a combination of both. I think Cena was mostly responsible for initially getting himself over, but once you get to a certain level it becomes a lot easier to maintain. The WWE completely controls all of the messaging most people see about them so if they constantly expose you to someone and tell you their good eventually the fanbase is going to start to believe it. Cena has probably cycled a lot of fans during his tenure. For every 20 something year old that has gotten tired of the same old shit, there are two kids that see him as this over-the-top champion

Considering what wrestling is I think both sides share equal importance. If Vince decided tomorrow to never put Cena on tv again or started getting squashed by Zack Ryder he'd obviously lose his popularity. At the same time, if Vince put him on TV constantly, but he had no charisma, it would equally go nowhere.

 

[Aiii]

Oh hey, Ryder's doing a thing again.

Good on him, I can respect a guy that doesn't settle when he's in a shitty situation. This is a lot better than the Twitter whining at least.

Well, how much is Cena's success attributed to Cena vs the WWE itself?

I think in every case it's a 50/50 type of deal. You can't get over without the backing of the company and on the other hand you can't get over if you're a flat character devoid of charisma. Cena can talk, Cena can definitely wrestle 5-star matches if he really puts in an effort. To say anyone can be Cena is selling the guy short.

 

[charsace]

You...
1) Are grossly underestimating Cena.
2) Should really go back and watch Buff Bagwell matches, because he really wasn't as good as you remember.

Cena really isn't that good in the ring. Outside of it he is great because of all he does. Cena has a super hero look and that's probably why the WWE pushed him. He has good charisma, but he's an average wrestler at best. He isn't really athletic and looks robotic in the ring. Some of his no sells are actually due to him being stiff. One thing that the next face of the company Roman Reigns has over Cena is that he moves like an athlete and doesn't look like he has a stick up his ass throwing punches.

Buff is a midcarder, but when he was young he was a good looking guy and that alone gets you a push in today's WWE. WWE now looks for guys like Buff, 220lbs+ guys with the physic and looks, and pushes them relentlessly.

I give Cena props for what he does outside of the shows, but in regards to wrestling itself he is nothing special and there are a lot of guys in Wrestling that could have been booked like Cena because the WWE has no competition and the merchandise would sell.

 

[Aiii]

So how do you explain all the 5-star matches Cena has had in the past 10 years?

 

[Shamrock7r]

Cena really isn't that good in the ring. Outside of it he is great because of all he does. Cena has a super hero look and that's probably why the WWE pushed him. He has good charisma, but he's an average wrestler at best. He isn't really athletic and looks robotic in the ring. Some of his no sells are actually due to him being stiff. One thing that the next face of the company Roman Reigns has over Cena is that he moves like an athlete and doesn't look like he has a stick up his ass throwing punches.

Buff is a midcarder, but when he was young he was a good looking guy and that alone gets you a push in today's WWE. WWE now looks for guys like Buff, 220lbs+ guys with the physic and looks, and pushes them relentlessly.

I give Cena props for what he does outside of the shows, but in regards to wrestling itself he is nothing special and there are a lot of guys in Wrestling that could have been booked like Cena because the WWE has no competition and the merchandise would sell.

Cena is by no means a Daniel Bryan, but he's definitely grown into a top wrestler in WWE. In some of his ppv matches, he has actually pulled out a good amount of moves that aren't part of his usual formula. I've never heard of him being dangerous or sloppy int he ring with his opponents either. This "Cena is average at best" nonsense is just an angry carryover from years back for people who still just can't stand his character/position in the company.

 

[jmdajr]

Lol. Buff Bagwell.

Pretty much single handed buried WCW after it's purchase.

Yeah, yeah..exaggeration perhaps but he sure as heck didn't help. HHH didn't even have to pedigree him.

 

[Plywood]

Honestly I don't think Joe not fitting in the hole is something people are hung up on because it's TNA. Any PPV with that sort of thing...everyone would focus on that. Because it is ridiculous and insane.

New Page

Now I'm shipping Melina and Vince.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

Now I'm shipping Melina and Vince.

Go here instead...

 

[Aiii]

Go here instead...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZqo4OZ0Pqs

 

[Plywood]

Oh hey, Ryder's doing a thing again.

Good for him.

Go here instead...

Nevah!

 

[krae_man]

So how do you explain all the 5-star matches Cena has had in the past 10 years?

All what like 3 of them?

Vs HBK, Vs Punk X2, ????

 

[kirblar]

Zack is super-cheesy. Definitely a better approach than Dolph "why won't I get pushed" Ziggler.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

All what like 3 of them?

Vs HBK, Vs Punk X2, ????

Bryan? There's more brother!

 

[Aiii]

Bryan? There's more brother!

Edge, Lesnar.

 

[charsace]

So how do you explain all the 5-star matches Cena has had in the past 10 years?

He worked with great match callers like CM Punk. If you take an average guy and have him work 20+ minute matches with guys like CM Punk or a Shawn Michaels or RVD or Seth Rollins or the Undertaker or Eddie Guerrero they are going to have a good match. That's what great booking is. A lot of people think Reigns is a good wrestler too because of how he's booked. There are a lot of people that liked the CM Punk Reigns match even though Reigns looked green and bad in it.

Cena is by no means a Daniel Bryan, but he's definitely grown into a top wrestler in WWE. In some of his ppv matches, he has actually pulled out a good amount of moves that aren't part of his usual formula. I've never heard of him being dangerous or sloppy int he ring with his opponents either. This "Cena is average at best" nonsense is just an angry carryover from years back for people who still just can't stand his character/position in the company.

A lot of moves doesn't make a guy a good wrestler. The Rock before he got into acting was a better wrestler than Cena ever was and he didn't use a lot of moves and Austin after the neck injury only did a few moves and was still better than Cena. You don't need a lot of moves to put on a good match. The flow of the match and the story the wrestlers are bringing to the match and the one they tell in the ring is what matters. Its why people buy into Bryan and Punk's striking based offense as being deadly and always get up for their matches or how the Rock can get a huge pop for doing ducking under a punch versus Cena would be caught in a hold, do something flashy to get out of it, and still get boring/Cena sucks/boos.

 

[Sephzilla]

Oh Buff...

I dunno, he's pretty on the button regarding Cena I think.

 

[krae_man]

Bryan? There's more brother!

So is any Cena match above and beyond his standard match 5 stars now?

Edit: I'd call stuff like the last man standing match with Umaga, TLC with Edge, I Quit with JBL good/great. But man you have some crappy 5 star standards.

 

[UberTag]

Cena can go in the ring when he's invested and matched up against a great performer that can carry him (i.e. not Dwayne). No question about that. He can raise his game when it matters.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

So is any Cena match above and beyond his standard match 5 stars now?

Edit: I'd call stuff like the last man standing match with Umaga, TLC with Edge, I Quit with JBL good/great. But man you have some crappy 5 star standards.

YOU have crappy standards! Part of it is that it's always a surprise, but he does plenty of stinkers too. Barret/Cena was no fun. Orton/Cena for their iron man match was fun as shit.

5-star is a little generous though for any of his, but I definitely enjoy Cena matches when they're huge.

Taker/Batista at Mania was so good though. THAT shit is 5 stars.

 

[jred2k]

All what like 3 of them?

Vs HBK, Vs Punk X2, ????

Bryan at SS and Cesaro a few weeks ago on Raw were excellent. Maybe not 5*, but very entertaining wrestling matches. What is supposed to do in his 1,000th match with Orton or gimmick matches with Ryback? To be fair to Cena, those are some pretty fucking boring opponents and if I was in his shoes I wouldn't be enthused by those match-ups either.

 

[lovely ladies]

GAF's spazzing out a bit on mobile, don't see anything on gaming side that would overload the servers. Are people having meltdowns over something

 

[Aiii]

So is any Cena match above and beyond his standard match 5 stars now?

Edit: I'd call stuff like the last man standing match with Umaga, TLC with Edge, I Quit with JBL good/great. But man you have some crappy 5 star standards.

Lets not start a discussion on star-ratings and scaling please.

The argument is about Buff and Buff hasn't even remotely come near any of the matches you mentioned, not once in his career.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

GAF's spazzing out a bit on mobile, don't see anything on gaming side that would overload the servers. Are people having meltdowns over something

There's a lot of people with beanies on their avatars talking about Titanfall.

 

[jred2k]

All what like 3 of them?

Vs HBK, Vs Punk X2, ????

Fucking double post cause of these 504s.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

I have a simple rating system.

Don't watch this
Watch this
PLEASE GOD WATCH THIS

 

[jmdajr]

GAF's spazzing out a bit on mobile, don't see anything on gaming side that would overload the servers. Are people having meltdowns over something

Well..Driveclub got canned...

 

[UberTag]

There's a lot of people with beanies on their avatars talking about Titanfall.

Titanfall is the biggest game release of 2014. At least that's what Microsoft and EA have told me.
It's to be expected that GAF will be sluggish today.

 

[Sheroking]

I think Cena is a rich-man's Lex Luger in a way, only with a real deep love of the business.

People didn't think Lex could work, but Lex regularly carried bad-hands to better than expected matches. When he was in the ring with a great, like Steamboat, it could be a really great match. Same deal with Cena. He took Batista, Umaga, Big Show, etc to decent matches and Shawn Micheals got a five star match out of him. He has personality, it's just not one everybody likes.

Whether you like it or not, he is legitimately one of the biggest stars in the history of the company. I guess you could argue that he wouldn't have been in a prior era, but I think he would have had the opportunity to flex different muscles in another era and you have to remember: even Undertaker was a distant, distant third or fourth during the height of the Attitude Era.

RE: Buff Bagwell. He made Roman Reigns look like Lou Thesz. He wouldn't have been a star because he's a headcase. He once had his mom call in sick to Jim Ross at Titan Tower, like four days into his WWE career (that lasted a couple weeks IIRC). A good look will get you a chance with Vince, but only a chance.

 

[Perspicacity]

Star ratings are for nerds.

In other nerd news, Stacy Keibler just married some nerd:

 

[Deleted member 47027]

I think Cena is a rich-man's Lex Luger in a way, only with a real deep love of the business.

People didn't think Lex could work, but Lex regularly carried bad-hands to better than expected matches. When he was in the ring with a great, like Steamboat, it could be a really great match. Same deal with Cena. He took Batista, Umaga, Big Show, etc to decent matches and Shawn Micheals got a five star match out of him. He has personality, it's just not one everybody likes.

Whether you like it or not, he is legitimately one of the biggest stars in the history of the company. I guess you could argue that he wouldn't have been in a prior era, but I think he would have had the opportunity to flex different muscles in another era and you have to remember: even Undertaker was a distant, distant third or fourth during the height of the Attitude Era.

RE: Buff Bagwell. He made Roman Reigns look like Lou Thesz. He wouldn't have been a star because he's a headcase. He once had his mom call in sick to Jim Ross at Titan Tower, like four days into his WWE career (that lasted a couple weeks IIRC). A good look will get you a chance with Vince, but only a chance.

When Lex wasn't feeling it though, he had some SHITTASTIC stuff. Early on Lex was a lot of fun to watch because physiques like his (pre-WWE work) weren't standard, and he did a lot of good shit.

 

[British Monsoon]

Gaming side are spazzing out because of that topic; "Sony have gone back to the drawing board with DriveClub". I mean, it's not clear if the quote is referring the previous delay or some new delay and we still don't have a clear release window for the game since it was first delayed, so...yeah. Spazzing about nothing again.

Or, something Titanfall related. Couldn't care less.

I have a simple rating system.

Don't watch this
Watch this
PLEASE GOD WATCH THIS

I knew there was a reason I liked you, Vince.

My rating system goes;

. That was bad
. That was fine
. That was good
. That was great
. That was AWESOME

 

[lovely ladies]

She looks like an old Taylor Swift in that photo.

 

[Rapstah]

Can we define what we mean by "five-star match" instead? Because if it's your own rating of Cena matches, responding to "I don't think John Cena has had any good matches" with "haven't you seen my five-star ratings for all of these John Cena matches" is quite possibly the dumbest argument ever.

John Cena had WWE's only Dave Meltzer five-star match of the past ten years and that's great for him.

 

[Anth0ny]

I have a simple rating system.

Don't watch this
Watch this
PLEASE GOD WATCH THIS

MINUS FIVE STARS
4.5 stars
5 stars