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March Wrasslin' |OT| The NXT Era Has ArRIVED
- Thread starter Kaladin
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FallingEdge
Member
his finisher still sucks
good point! haha
admittedly one of the first things I thought was "What happens when he has a 'coming back' sequence?" or something I think I heard him refer to as "hyper drive," - wouldn't that indeed be... getting hype?
A thread title is not a gimmick doe
Spider from Mars
tap that thorax
I feel like the people who came straight to the WWE developmental system with no previous experience will never be as competent in ring as those who traveled the world and worked a bunch of different styles to create their own in ring identity.
Rafa=FedKilla
Banned
Wow. We are wither looking at two different brahs or the E's target audience has finally been found. Wow. No offense, but he is completely awful. He is The Ascension with a smile.
British Monsoon
Member
This. Obviously the WWE style is a whole different animal and not every great wrestler created outside of that system is going to be able to adapt to it, but the experience gained from working as many places as possible is what makes guys like Cesaro, Bryan and Seth such competent, well-rounded wrestlers.
I kinda wish WWE would send their home-grown talent out on learning excursions to other promotions, like New Japan does, but I guess the whole Performance Center deal is so they can do everything in-house.
1) I haven't seen him wrestle yet, completely going off his promo package which sold me. Same thing happened for me and the Wyatts.
2) The Ascension can't wrestle, but they ALSO can't promo for shit and have no real enthusiasm for their gimmick. It's a pretty big difference.
3) Mojo has an impressive physique that I can believe being a powerhouse, I believe Connor O'Brien is fat.
Presentation and enthusiasm/"being real"(- Batista) can get you over with "The People," because they believe in you. Charm, charisma, "it" factor, etc.
Don't get me wrong, Mojo has a lot of work to do in the ring. But he's got the presence thing down. He knows how to work a crowd and that's a part of the equation a lot of guys who have all the ring ability in the world don't get.
slightconfuse
Banned
Court Bauer said that at one time Vince was trying to open developmental territories in different countries like Brazil UK and japan.
Uno Venova
Banned
I know it's not midnight, but....
I was a fan of Tori.
lovely ladies
Member
Stole this from /wooo/
there's even more but I'll just leave it at that for now
lol, pro wrestling is only step 1 to HHH's world domination.
British Monsoon
Member
Trailer for Two Falls to a Finish, an upcoming documentary about the past and present of British wrestling;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtAx2KrbCG8
Really looking forward to this, hope it turns out good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtAx2KrbCG8
Really looking forward to this, hope it turns out good.
GhaleonQ
Member
From the last topic, sorry:
As far as I could tell, that was the best shot they got of me and the sign. See below, but there was a PERFECT one where Ziggler taunted Batista in the opening, they cut to Dave looking confused, and LEGIT SHOOK was right by his head. It must have been edited out.
Whoa, they did! You can hear the beginning faintly, twice, but it built quickly such that he did the "stop and look around" wrestler thing to intimidate Batista. It went on for 45 seconds or so and he had to stop the crowd. Even the kids were in on it.
It went on awhile *points up*, so they had to make time for those Raw recaps!
I'd like to say that his big advantage is that he helped his "network" out in a way the others wouldn't have, but Rollins-Ambrose and Zayn-Cesaro prove that's not really the case.
It's unfortunate for him that all of the things you wouldn't expect of the indie crowd (mic skills in a WWE context, meeting "big match" expectations) he has, yes, but most of the others do, too.
Just seeing a perfect picture of Ultimo Dragon makes my day better. Thanks!
I think that NXT's major weakness could become short-term reactions determining futures. I don't want to say that Kruger didn't get a LONG time to convince people (as much as I loved his style and persona), but I don't know how you can debut 5 or 6 comedic gimmicks per year. There's just an imbalance in the stories WWE is likely to tell. Heck, even when they have a winner with an easy-to-execute plan like Emma, they don't trust themselves to do it.
Adam Rose will probably be more popular than Leo Kruger in NXt, but I doubt he has the sunset date of Kruger on Raw.
As far as I could tell, that was the best shot they got of me and the sign. See below, but there was a PERFECT one where Ziggler taunted Batista in the opening, they cut to Dave looking confused, and LEGIT SHOOK was right by his head. It must have been edited out.
@HEELZiggler: kudos to @WWE for editing out the
WE WANT ZIGGLER chants
face to face w/dave
I will never forget that
thank u milwaukee
#SmackDown
Whoa, they did! You can hear the beginning faintly, twice, but it built quickly such that he did the "stop and look around" wrestler thing to intimidate Batista. It went on for 45 seconds or so and he had to stop the crowd. Even the kids were in on it.
It went on awhile *points up*, so they had to make time for those Raw recaps!
Confession: I don't miss CM Punk at all. Seriously. Yes, he was a great talker (one of the best, in fact), but, man, was he super sloppy in the ring the past 6-8 months. In fact, he was never that great of a wrestler to begin with (I'm seriously not trolling, btw).
When it comes to the indy darlings (Cesaro, Bryan, Zayn, Rollins, etc.) Punk is easily my least favorite in the ring. All those other guys I just listed are phenomenal, though (Cesaro is easily my favorite wrestler right now).
Curious what y'all think.
I'd like to say that his big advantage is that he helped his "network" out in a way the others wouldn't have, but Rollins-Ambrose and Zayn-Cesaro prove that's not really the case.
It's unfortunate for him that all of the things you wouldn't expect of the indie crowd (mic skills in a WWE context, meeting "big match" expectations) he has, yes, but most of the others do, too.
Just seeing a perfect picture of Ultimo Dragon makes my day better. Thanks!
I think that NXT's major weakness could become short-term reactions determining futures. I don't want to say that Kruger didn't get a LONG time to convince people (as much as I loved his style and persona), but I don't know how you can debut 5 or 6 comedic gimmicks per year. There's just an imbalance in the stories WWE is likely to tell. Heck, even when they have a winner with an easy-to-execute plan like Emma, they don't trust themselves to do it.
Adam Rose will probably be more popular than Leo Kruger in NXt, but I doubt he has the sunset date of Kruger on Raw.
Dork Knight
Member
You make some good points, particularly about storytelling and in-ring charisma. I can't deny he's very proficient in both those areas. But, to me, his overall sloppiness and lack of any real athletic talent is what killed it for me.
Also: y'know all the jokes about him looking like a Waffle House chef? Well, it's true -- I just don't buy that CM Punk is a guy that is a legit badass. It's hard for me to suspend my disbelief that this dude can even CONCEIVABLY beat Brock Lesnar in a real fight. It's positively preposterous, really. So when they feuded, I just found it laughable.
However, I TOTALLY believe Cesaro is a badass and I firmly believe he'd throw my ass into the 5th row (maybe farther). Same goes for Bryan -- even though he's small and short, I buy that he's a dude that can kick ass. I just never got that from Punk. Great, great talker, but that's about it, really.
BTW: I've thought this WAY before he came to the WWE. I remember my friends raving about his ROH matches back in the day and I just didn't understand why he was so hyped up, especially when he debuted in ECW. My initial reaction was: "Uh, that's it?" Whereas I was immediately a fan of the other ROH guys.
Pristine_Condition
Member
The coolest thing about shaking Bret Hart's hand is, once you've done it once, you never have to do it again, cause they are basically all the same handshake.
You have to think, NXT is development for creative as well as wrestlers. I think that's a big part of the reason we see some wrestlers go through multiple persona changes in NXT and eventually repackaged on the main roster.
He's got the five fingers of doom down pretty good.
Rafa=FedKilla
Banned
Leo Kruger's Kraven The Hunter/Most Dangerous Game gimmick could've gotten over big in The E.
Pristine_Condition
Member
LAWL
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Cesaro's got to drop the Neutralizer. It has the same end result as the Styles Clash, but it comes off bad because you're expecting a piledriver, and the way he holds them between the legs seems unnecessary. Just make it a Styles Clash.
British Monsoon
Member
I agree, it doesn't look all that great - they should just let him do a Gotch-style piledriver, which is what it looks like he's setting up for anyways;
Truth, they made a mistake dropping that gimmick.
Net_Wrecker
Member
Punk's not a badass, though, not in the conventional sense. His natural role is that of the outcast. The guy who stands apart from the rest of the roster, even apart from the face/heel split, and follows his own code. The believability (aside from getting over how he looks and suspending disbelief) comes from his ability to tell a story, get in his opponent's + the audiences head(s), and make it seem like he'll do anything to anyone even if it gets him beat down, fired, or killed. He's supposed to be the tough lone wolf who's proficient enough in, and against, most styles to keep him afloat, but his cunning, ego, and rebellious attitude helps him swim with the sharks.
He's supposed to be a mix of Raven, HHH, and Jake The Snake, and the foil of everyone on the roster because of his versatility. Basing everything on his physical ability is looking at it the wrong way. He's the psychological character that also happens to not be a coward heel (or even sometimes the babyface depending on his motives). When they don't use him as such, he and the angle suffers.
Um....yeah. I usually proof read my stuff better than that....but as I said, I was wanting to get this thread live since it's running a day later than our usual threads.
darkside31337
Tomodachi wa Mahou
Well yeah its a new month.
worldrunover
Member
I always thought of the Neutralizer he does as a badder ass version of the Pedigree. I kinda like it, plus they will never let him do an actual piledriver.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
I can see what you mean about Punk not looking like a legit threat to Lesnar or most guys, but in the world of pro wrestling, he's the guy that's in everyone's head. He's the guy who goes way, way too far to really mentally fuck up his opponent, and he knows some MMA and Japanese wrestling shit to finish them off when the match happens.
No one else could have done the Taker vs Punk storyline like Punk. Him dicking around with the Paul Bearer urn and later pouring the ashes on Taker's body, rubbing the ashes all over himself, eating the ashes, etc. was fucking gold. During the WM match itself, he's constantly mocking Taker's moveset and gimmick. In wrestling logic, I could believe that Taker was thrown way off of his game by all of this bullshit and could be beaten.
Think about things like Heyman and Punk recreating Lawler's heart attack in the ring, or the ways Punk got real as fuck and broke out of contrived wrestling angles against Cena at MITB 2011, or how he held that title for almost a year and a half no matter what bullshit got piled on him. He's a legitimate heel who actually wants the fans and his opponents to hate him. The mental game is real (if you watch UFC, think about how GSP's career high and low points are always tied to how he lets things get to him).
I'll say that Punk has the slowest, sloppiest, and laziest kicks in professional wrestling for a guy who's supposed to be the best at them. He always does that roundhouse head kick that just looks like he's resting his leg on his opponent's shoulder.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
I can see that. The Pedigree is still leagues better because of the double underhook so the guy's face isn't protected at all. I feel like there's no impact when the Neutralizer hits. A lot of finishers have lame impact, like the Attitude Adjustment, but they're a bit more believable because they come out of nowhere. The Neutralizer has a lot of set up that kills that aspect of it.
darkside31337
Tomodachi wa Mahou
I'm okay with the Neutralizer but the Pedigree is definitely a better move. It looks more painful and while its not sudden it isn't nearly as slow to deliver.
Cesaro could definitely use a better finisher though.
Johnny Ryall
Member
Evening folks (or I guess afternoon for the US guys). After hearing Gerstmann bury Souled Out 97 thought I would try it out. Wow. I only really had access to WWF when I started out and I only really watched from 2000 onwards so this whole NWO takeover thing is just the weirdest thing in hindsight. The show starts with tweener dudes shouting out WCW SUCKS. I'm still on the opener but so far this is fun watching with the benefit of hindsight.
Dork Knight
Member
What I meant about him not being a badass was less about him being PERCEIVED as one by the audience, but more my own take on his believability of being a professional wrestler (if that makes sense?). Basically, heel/face/whatever, I just have a hard time believing that CM Punk can actually beat up someone in a real fight. That's all. He's not very athletic, he's not very strong, and he's not very graceful. And that's not his fault -- that's genetics.
But, to your point about him being believable as an outcast, I 100% agree with that. As a CHARACTER, I love CM Punk. Like I've said, he's one of the best talkers out there, and he's phenomenal at blurring the lines between fiction and reality. Sadly, as good as a talker as he has, I just don't want to see him wrestle. In fact, like I stated a few posts back, I'd LOVE for him to be a commentator. I've been listening to a lot of Jessie Ventura on the WWE Network and I just adore his commentary. I think Punk could do a MUCH better job at JBL's heel-like commentary role.
You definitely brought up some great points, particularly his ability to build up programs. Like I said, I think he's an awesome character, and is leagues better than most of the guys on the roster when it comes to cutting a promo. His work with John Cena during the Summer of Punk was awesome, and his feuds with Rey/Jeff Hardy were also great. I just wish his wrestling ability matched his character/promos. If that were the case, I'd easily call him one of the best wrestlers of all-time.
It's a fine finisher for this age of wrestling. And as mentioned it's typically paired with the uppercut.
Look at Cena and Orton who have two of the tamest move-sets you'll ever see. Cena uses a borderline firemans carry body slam and the RKO is nothing more than a comical diamond cutter.
Shadowlink
Member
I never understood the point of editing out chants. There are certain things to edit out depending on the context, but why edit out simple things like We Want Ziggler?
Net_Wrecker
Member
I get what you're saying, 100%, I just have a hard time seeing it the way you do because Punk is such a great presence in terms of storytelling and mannerisms that it doesn't bother me. Would I prefer that his ring work was more crisp and hard hitting? Absolutely, but I don't think it holds him back, and I definitely don't want him sitting on the bench because he can carry a ton of guys to a feud that's more than just "I beat you, you beat me."
Swiss Death should be Cesaro's finisher. It's the most legit OUTTA NOWHERE move in WWE right now. It looks awesome and crushes dude. Or some kind of other deadlift kind of move that shows off his power. The Neutralizer only really does that when he's picking up guys like Khali.
Pristine_Condition
Member
So Regal was a guest on Stone Cold Steve Austin's podcast, and he mentioned this match:
http://youtu.be/aDQNF7TqU7k
Steve Wright (Alex Wright's dad) versus Tiger Mask.
Everybody who likes Euro-style should watch this. Wright working Tiger Mask's leg is a thing of beauty.
http://youtu.be/aDQNF7TqU7k
Steve Wright (Alex Wright's dad) versus Tiger Mask.
Everybody who likes Euro-style should watch this. Wright working Tiger Mask's leg is a thing of beauty.
Dork Knight
Member
Cue that Meltzer breakdown audio clip!
I know, I was really hyped up for the match at the time as it was two of my favourites. Some guys just don't have chemistry no matter how good they are, I guess.
I find it extra strange considering it fits the narrative if it was while Batista was out. Either that or that chant didn't happen and it was just a tweet gimmick. Wrasslegaf sign guy should confirm.
spindashing
Banned
HHH is Gill from Third Strike even further confirmed.Stole this from /wooo/
there's even more but I'll just leave it at that for now
Rafa=FedKilla
Banned
It's gonna be sad to see him go....
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