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Marine Le Pen pledges to recognise Crimea and drop sanctions against Russia
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Led_Zeppelin
Member
He also said that the Italian referendum would fail, and fail it did. People from the left will be wise to start supporting non neoliberal left parties to avoid right wing populist to storm down on the elections, though I think Blyth may be wrong about France only because of how their elections work and how the system to avoid communist from gaining power now is being used to avoid right wing populist to do so.
Trump beat his poll by 2% on average and 3% in swing states dude.
It was close.
French election is not close.
Sidewinder
Member
French people better not fuck this up, go vote and not for Le Pen of course.
dapperbandit
Banned
I heard the FN are pretty cash strapped and French banks refused to offer a loan so I don't know if she has a choice but to accept Uncle Vlad's rubles and associated policy positions that sound so sock puppety
Perhaps, but Blyth absolutely has his finger on the pulse regarding the problems and failings of neoliberalism itself. It's created these beasts many of us who believe in reason, equality, and compassion see roaming into power with views and values that are almost are war with such views.
I do worry the technology problem will be the bullet in the chamber for much of this to start getting really bad, as technologist Jeremy Howard believes there are "clear signs" of a collapse occurring within the next six years based on this issue alone. This problem directly attacks Rural America too, for they banked on Trumps lies to return them to an old narrative that is economically implausible today, so these will be the first casualties, if you don't already consider them one.
His Majesty
Banned
While I believe in the principle of self-determination, the circumstances in which the referendum took place are suspicious at best.
Crimea's parliament first unilaterally voted for independence from Ukraine after which they decided to join Russia through a referendum. The first act is illegal according to Ukrainian law and the second act was obtained through violence according to observers.
I don't see Russia trading back Crimea nor do I think Crimea wants to go back to Ukraine by the way, as post-referendum polls show.
Crimea's parliament first unilaterally voted for independence from Ukraine after which they decided to join Russia through a referendum. The first act is illegal according to Ukrainian law and the second act was obtained through violence according to observers.
I don't see Russia trading back Crimea nor do I think Crimea wants to go back to Ukraine by the way, as post-referendum polls show.
Ether_Snake
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I said it before if Trump loses his own supporters, they'll move further toward radical candidates like Duke. Not all of them, but enough to make matters even worst since among them many hold offices of power. This in itself will push people opposing them to go further in the opposite direction, which is no better.
Obama understood that dynamic.
Obama did, and I do wish we had more people like him in office.
He's opening up to the need of a UBI, but one of his earlier plans was wage insurance, which would actually have protected these people somewhat, as social mobility via technology is negative, not positive.
Of course, the GOP looked at it as the evil S O C I A L I S M and didn't even entertain the concept for a second, and here we are, knowing these people are in collapse...
Led_Zeppelin
Member
Automation is certainly a factor that will shape the political discourse of most industrialized nations but Rural areas are already heavily automated and have been so for years, automation will hit harder on the suburban areas in most cities since this time automation isn't just automation of manufacturing but automation in key sectors of the service industry that is what employs most of the low skill workers in the cities, and is not just them that their jobs are on the chopping block since automation isn't just aiming to replace low skill workers in the service industry.
I do agree with Blyth and he seems one of the few people making sense when trying to explain the current situation in the west, I just hope people listen to his message while there is time to correct some of the problems with globalization and not reach a point where people will decide that is better to have a right wing populist in charge over having the same political elite lying to them over and over again.
Dice//
Banned
No seriously -- What exactly is happening these days???
I think it will be interesting what the international status of Crimea will be in the future. Is there any reliable, unbiased polling of what the Crimeans themselves think? It's not recognized as part of Russia because it was unjustly annexed, but I wonder if after some time, if the inhabitants are "happy" or at least there's no real separation movements (or are there currently any?), other states will just say "fuck it" and recognize the pragmatic reality?
Some of you still never learn.
Do people really want a Putin puppet just because they are scared of immigrants? people really need to start asking themselves this question
Well 48 percent of the US did. And apparently most of our electors did too.
His Majesty
Banned
Most post-referendum polls seem to indicate that the Crimeans are quite happy with the territorial changes.
Some of you still haven't learned how elections work in France so it's fine.
I hope she never wins but feels like we've been here before.
clockworkinyou
Banned
Oh but you do.
DeviantBoi
Member
Heckler456
Banned
No. Stop. The exact same thing was said the last time too, and look where it got us. All you're doing is promoting complacency. We SHOULD be looking at the Brexit and Trump as portends for things to come.
Actually, it's all the more comforting/easier to take nationalism and bravado when everything is falling apart around them.
It's that much easier to blame other countries. Foreigners. Anything except the fact that the system is corrupt and broken. No, it's much easier to say "it's those people, they're the reason our economy fell apart. They're why you don't have jobs or healthcare or a pension."
Any Questions
Member
Fingers crossed. But you need to pay the devil for his services.
If they know what's good for them.
Any Questions
Member
Double or single fist action? Also make or female companion? Either way, outch.
No we haven't. Polls for Brexit were always tight and the results constantly alternated between Leave and Remain. The only relevant polls regarding the american election are the few there are about the popular vote and these are tight as well. Le Pen has never even passed 40% in any of the polls.
All these "France is next" posts are reading as some sort of fantasy by now tbh.
Exactly. Use the shadow... Just like Germany did with jews. Carl Jung would be terrified these days.
Heckler456
Banned
What do you gain from explaining away this very real threat? It kind of seems like you're soothing yourself just so you don't have to think about the very real possibility that this person will wield some very real power.
I still remember wanting to post something akin to "don't slack off now, go vote!" right before election, but I didn't because I knew people would respond with the same thing you said. "It's not the same as Brexit. Don't worry, the polls are totally against Trump!" And look where we're at now.
Again, I'm not sure what you think you're accomplishing here, but all you're doing is promoting complacency. People should be freaking the fuck out over people like this not only surviving, but seemingly thriving in the spotlight.
Is that considered blackmail material in France? It's France. I imagine refusing an after dinner cigarette is more scandalous
This shift isn't in "the West". It is in England and the USA and it feeds directly off the myths of English and American exceptionalism being deflated by the emergence of a multi-polar world. Rather than accept this reality much of the electorate (those who feel "left behind" because they have failed despite seeing the success of immigrants in their own communities) has retreated into the arms of those who perpetuate the lies of exceptionalism and claim they will protect them.
France has some faintly similar baggage in its own colonial past, but from what I've seen it doesn't manifest in quite the same way as English/American nationalism.
I mean I literally just explained why the situations are different. Not my fault the USA has a nonsensical election system that allows for someone with 46% of the vote to win.
And promoting complacency ? My country isn't the one with a 58% turnout here.
Haha, they fucking wish
Alx
Member
Well to be fair one can't deny there is a shift towards populism and nationalism in continental Europe, including France, but not for the same reasons. Le Pen has been on the rise during the last years (and her party during the last decades), even if she should still be far from being able to be elected (this time).
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Europe is fucked for the next decade, isn't it?
Le Pen is a threat, but nowhere near as big as a threat as people think. She has way to much political baggage compared to trump to even have a chance of winning the french presidential election this year. Trump was an unknown on the political scene in the US compared to the Le Pen and her father. He could easily find a way to atrract people to vote for him because it was kinda hard to attack him since he literally had barely any political history. You literally had to find a way to attack him in another way effectively which everyone he faced in the republican primary and general election failed to do last year. The last time a le pen got to the second round they got crushed by literally 65 points. Le pen's father is pretty awful to and despite his daughter trying to distance herself from him she will be hurt still by being associated with him. She may also not be able to sell an effective message like trump could that will get people to support her and she may hurt her chances of winning by saying controversial things.There also are not enough WCW in France to help her win the second round of the french presidential elections. She's also pretty much crushing her competitors with that group but it's not really helping her get past the mid 30's against Fillon and Macron in second round polls. Finally, her niece may also hurt her chances of winning the second round of the french presidential elections in May.The second round of the french election in May will be a worse repeat of the Austria one for the FN. I expect that Marine Le Pen will lose in the second round by 20 to 40 points unless her opposition is terrible. People in france still do need to vote in the second round of the presidential elections in May.
Also I'm not really shocked that le pen recognizes Crimea and plans to drop sanctions against Russia if she wins the presidential elections in May. She's always been really open to being buddies with Russia for awhile now.
Also I'm not really shocked that le pen recognizes Crimea and plans to drop sanctions against Russia if she wins the presidential elections in May. She's always been really open to being buddies with Russia for awhile now.
I don't think the racist sentiments will ever be appeased, because they want unrealistic solutions like deporting all the brown people and think the EU is to blame for everything and not their own local/national politicians screwing them over.
Since these racist sentiments in the population won't be appeased by any non-far-right party, expect the far-right to come into even more power and disrupt the institutions that should otherwise serve as safe-guard against fascism and bigotry. Then they most likely will ally their fascist cultural politics with the libertarian economics (because capitalism is amoral). People will become even poorer and inequality exacerbated even further.
Since it's impossible to deport brown people who were born in the European countries, expect them to be treated even more as second-class citizens, dehumanize them through discriminatory laws that target them via dog-whistles, and stove them together in housing projects and ghettos even more.
Russia's own society fits well with this form of authoritarian discriminatory approach and I could see a form of cooperation until Putin" leans in" onto the Eastern European countries that the country would like to annex again. European countries will do little, because they're ruled by far-right parties who sympathize with Russia and its authoritarian system more than with other EU countries.
theignoramus
Member
He's a White, anti-Muslim authoritarian with tough guy imagery, which is what they like, if they're being honest.
All of this.
Heckler456
Banned
Yes, you're promoting complacency. Aside from "look how smart I am, I can relativize.", what is it that you're trying to accomplish here? People are going "Holy shit, things are going terribly. Marine Le Pen actually stands a chance at the presidency!", and you among others are going "that's not true! Don't worry, and here's why: ...".
People should be running fucking scared right now, to the point where they'll get off their asses and do something about what's going on in their countries.
SlickShoesRUCrazy
Member
And she was at Trump's tower a few days ago....
Yep, not suspect at all.
Yep, not suspect at all.
theignoramus
Member
With all this talk the last year from self appointed experts assuring us how various right wing political movements were doomed to fail, I feel like these were the conversations Neville Chamberlain & like-minded thinkers had during Hitler's ascendancy. The dominoes were falling, piece by piece, but they stubbornly refused to believe the chain of events would go any further.
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