How do you figure? I mean, come on...daredevils powers alone makes this untrue. Then you add in Madam Gao and that kid that had powers as well. Anything but grounded.
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Marvel going street level w/ Netflix (Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, Iron Fist)
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How do you figure? I mean, come on...daredevils powers alone makes this untrue. Then you add in Madam Gao and that kid that had powers as well. Anything but grounded.
TDLink
Member
Honestly if they don't go full on Fraction Immortal Iron Fist they are doing something wrong. Daredevil and Luke Cage are showing/going to show enough traditional crime fighting in New York. Immortal Iron Fist is the best thing they've done with the character and it's something different. No one will care about the mysticism stuff. If you want to do IF in New York then save it for a season 2 or a crossover show like Heroes for Hire.
They need to adapt Immortal Iron Fist though. Otherwise what's the point?
They need to adapt Immortal Iron Fist though. Otherwise what's the point?
Damn straight. That article has me worried.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
There is no way for Marvel to win with an Iron Fist show. Either it's white appropriation and cultural erasure or they cast an Asian actor and suddenly all the magical kung-fu stuff comes across as casual racism.
Their best bet would be to cast an Asian actor as Danny, with an Asian cast and director. Have like, zero white dudes involved. Then they'd piss off super fans, but honestly, it's Iron Fist. How many of those can there really be?
Their best bet would be to cast an Asian actor as Danny, with an Asian cast and director. Have like, zero white dudes involved. Then they'd piss off super fans, but honestly, it's Iron Fist. How many of those can there really be?
(kidding on that last, don't karate kick me)
I don't know much about Iron Fist, but I highly doubt those are the only two options.
Didn't the Mandarin essentially pose a similar problem, with the character's "Yellow Peril" origins? I feel like that was subverted pretty cleverly without being mired in the "cultural appropriation vs. Orientalism" dilemma. All they need are talented writers.
Then again, Daredevil did kinda poorly in this exact area.
Have a latino playing Danny. Problem solved!
Joking aside, I'm really curious to see how both Iron Fist and Black Panther will turn out in the end. I really hope they nail both productions.
Chiaroscuro
Member
Danny should Be caucasian IMO. The whole point is a western guy with no familiar with the oriental culture to surpass His limitation and grow ti be a champion of a eastern empire. Place an oriental actor there and you Will have Chang-Shi.
How the fuck is it white appropriation when ...fuck it. Not even getting into the stupidity anymore.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Father_Brain
Banned
Well, as Faraci notes, they significantly downplayed the fact that Daredevil has powers at all.
The Gao stuff worked with the overall tone because it was kept mostly implicit, but when Black Sky shows up, or Nobu dons a bright red ninja outfit to fight Daredevil... it simply didn't jibe with the gritty-crime-drama tone of most of the series very well. Which wouldn't have been an issue in a Daredevil show that didn't have "crime drama first, superhero series second" as its mantra and foregrounded the comic-booky elements a bit more.
Dongs Macabre
aka Daedalos42
I'm not really a huge Iron Fist fan, but I don't think that he should be white. It would be nice to have a prominent Asian male superhero and it would make just as much sense for him to be an Asian-American. I would be fine with anything other than white, really.
If you want an asian super hero , then you make Shang-Chi Master of Kung Fu.
Iron Fist is not asian. He is a blonde rich kid who visited the Himalayas when he was young and had K'un-Lun appear.
If you are not "a really huge fan" then who are you to have a say trying to change the character?
On the face of it, Iron Fist definitely has "Tom Hanks is The Last Nigga on Earth" flavor. "White American Dude comes out of nowhere and is actually the greatest warrior in an entire city of magical Asian martial artists." I think they handle it pretty well, honestly, as of late - everyone knows and hates this dude for exactly that reason, that his being the Iron Fist is a bit of a fluke and he's not entirely comfortable with it, so on so forth. So I think it's definitely doable if you have good writers on the task.
But honestly, you can do the "outsider" theme with him being Asian-American. He'd still face prejudice and jealousy and that fish-out-of-water undercurrent would still be present. Possibly not as readily apparent or resonant as a blonde-haired, blue-eyed dude in K'un-L'un... but unlike some characters I don't think there's any real loss in bending Danny's race.
But honestly, you can do the "outsider" theme with him being Asian-American. He'd still face prejudice and jealousy and that fish-out-of-water undercurrent would still be present. Possibly not as readily apparent or resonant as a blonde-haired, blue-eyed dude in K'un-L'un... but unlike some characters I don't think there's any real loss in bending Danny's race.
Dongs Macabre
aka Daedalos42
I'm not saying they have to do anything. I'm just giving my two cents. His whiteness isn't really integral to his character. He could be black and his story would still work, although I guess his whole dynamic with Luke Cage might not work if they're both black.
There's already an example of this in Agents of SHIELD.
When Skye goes to Afterlife, which, while mostly Asian, has some diversity, she is definitely still an outsider there.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
This is how I feel too. Anything can be overcome with good enough writing, but Iron Fist, more than most, is going to have to be handled with more care in order to avoid certain segments of the population from losing their collective shit. I believe they can do it, but unless you've been living under a rock for the past, oh, 7-8 years, you'll see very quickly why they're taking their time figuring out how to bring the character into the mainstream limelight in 2015.
spatenfloot
Member
Can't they just get Emma Stone?
Wiktor
Member
I would be pretty sad if he wouldn't be white blond dude. It would loose a lot of of it's fish out of water story and most of it's akward humor this way.
I wouldn't mind pretty much every other single white MCU character being turned asian. Even Punisher would work just fine. But I would be sad if they did this to Danny Rand
I wouldn't mind pretty much every other single white MCU character being turned asian. Even Punisher would work just fine. But I would be sad if they did this to Danny Rand
This could work.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
ratcliffja
Member
It does work and you can still use the comes from old money angle.
Yep, I was actually half-joking with that one. Latinos are usually ignored in comic book character race discussions since most of the time it boils down to black/white/asian.
I'd love to hear what goes on in their meetings regarding the show. Daredevil was such a smashing success that I'm sure the pressure is much bigger now on making it work right. Not to mention that any other mystic details that pop-up in DD season 2 will probably tie-in to Iron Fist, so they also have to keep paying attention to that and make it mesh properly.
DryEyeRelief
Member
Entryhazard
Banned
Does anyone know when will Jessica Jones come out?
So white people can not know martial arts without it being white appropriation?
Really?
What horse shit is this?
I am guessing most likely April or May.
We will hopefully get more information in the next month.
Entryhazard
Banned
I do not think we will see DD s2 until much later. I do not think it has even started shooting yet unless I am mistaken.
Entryhazard
Banned
BrokenFiction
Member
Most of the rumors say later this year/winter.
MisterNugNug
Member
Cast a white actor. Stay true to the source material. You know what they should do? Introduce Amadeus Cho in the Shield series.
Jessica Jones will be sometime by the end of this year. Daredevil was shot from July to Dec last year, and came out in April. JJ started shooting in Feb this year, and should be wrapping soon. A few months of post, and it should be ready to be released. Daredevil Season 2 will probably start shooting within a month or two, so it'll be within the same schedule range as the first season.
TDLink
Member
Danny Rand doesn't know "martial arts". He knows mystical super kung fu which he learned from the mystical Asian themed city of Kunlun filled with Asian people with Chinese names, ruled over by the Jade Emperor. He mastered their skills and fought a dragon to gain the right to become the Iron Fist, a mantle held by the greatest warrior of the city. In maybe of the side stories featuring the other historical Iron Fist characters, they are all Chinese.
Please tell me how this is any different from American Ninja or Last Samurai.
This fall.
D
Deleted member 13876
Unconfirmed Member
Chris Farley is sadly no longer available for casting.
Glass Rebel
Member
I want them to keep Danny White just to see if they manage to adapt the character without going full on mighty whitey on us. I think they have to subvert it somehow in 2016. I wouldn't have a problem with them changing Danny's race, even if it reeks of tokenism. I'd much rather preferred if they just used the minority characters they already have instead, Shang-Chi, White Tiger etc.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
I think he cameod in TIH from memory?
But yeah, i want Danny to stay white. How about Jimmy Woo in Shield or Shang Chi to feature in IF but to get his own damn Netflix series too?
Not officially. Wasn't credited as such.
DryEyeRelief
Member
I get the problem you and others have with it. I have a love/hate thing going on with this discussion. I'll try to explain myself:
I think the actual problem is derived from the fact that this trope happens way too often in the same direction (a white guy mastering foreign culture/arts). The balance in pop culture is screwed, and I won't argue that Iron Fist contributes to that wrong balance (edit: if they decide on white). However, in itself I believe this premise is not something morally wrong (if done properly), since a white guy could be just as able to do so.
In fact, I believe If this "trope" would be a common thing featuring all kinds of races in a similar situation, it would actually be a thing of beauty. Because if it happens in all directions (read: insert race of any skin color "going native" in insert culture), it would actually be a message that race does not matter. But offcourse this is hardly the situation at the moment.
So, I admit I am annoyed at times, because I believe IF will be awesome and do not see a any problem with the guy being white in itself. When I see people telling me it is morally wrong that the main is white and solely because of that, I don't like that. Because even if the intentions are good, it is driven yet again by a focus on distinction on basis of race. However, I do think it is a good thing people complain, since it is likely to have a positive influence on the long term. And to be honest, I have no idea how to support more diversity without criticising current protagonist designs specifically.
Weapxn
Mikkelsexual
I've been told December or January from a very reliable source that I happened by chance to meet briefly in the city.
Said by everyone that doesn't read the book. The cities of heaven are full of badass motherfuckers. And not every Asian character is a martial artist.
DryEyeRelief
Member
I don't think I need to be a diehard iron fist fan to say something about it. Being Chinese is enough.
And you're definitely something to try and frame him as a character meant to offset Asian stereotypes, instead of...it being a character whose premise came from 40 years ago. People probably weren't as open about race. The spider man guys could at least admit that much.
Entryhazard
Banned
The spider man guys introduced Miles Morales instead of turning Peter Parker black
DryEyeRelief
Member
I meant the posters here, regarding why Peter Parker is white.
Entryhazard
Banned
still, I prefer give the limelight to character that already are of a minority instead of altering existing ones.
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