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Marvel stays winning: Jessica Jones Hires All Women Directors for Season 2
- Thread starter excelsiorlef
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Monocle
Member
Daredevil tho.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
It doesn't matter but for studios and scenarios where a product bombs, they usually completely ignore what they did for that project and try not to repeat it. Great ideas get diminished because of a failed project.
Dark Ninja
Member
Hopefully Season 2 is better. Season 1 DRAGGED.
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
im a asian girl viewer
i love LOVE Luke Cage. the female characters in it were various and terrific, covering all sorts of personality flaws and strengths. great show.
jessica jones was so under par for me. i couldnt engage with it well at all. i enjoyed it for what it had to offer though, and would like to see a better season 2.
QuantumZebra
Member
DD S1 is third for me, S2 fell off a bit, but Punisher was good.
AoS is a secret favorite of mine, but its not as well composed and paced as the others.
JasonUresti
Member
Ive liked the Marvel shows, but they all have suffered from one degree or another from being too long. The set in stone 13 episode order has them stretching to fill up running time. Jessica Jones was hurt the most by this, it could have shed 3-4 episodes worth of filler, and been much stronger for it.
that, and Hollywood is very "incestuous" - even when there's no ill intent people will recommend and hire who they know, and who they know in the business are white males. they are statistically over-represented. that's how the machine is rigged because it was created during more exclusionary times and it kept growing like that.
the effort we're seeing here is about leveling the playing field and give minorities visibility where there is virtually none. the ultimate goal is for this kind of thing to not be needed, but first the system has to change, and these methods are the only way to realistically achieve that.
That's a neat thing.
I'm rooting for the show as I like Jessica.
Sadly I'm also in the camp that thought the show itself though kinda sucked.
Though I haven't exactly liked any of Marvels TV output, outside of some of the Punisher stuff in S2 of DD.
I'm actually really scared for how Iron FIst is going to turn out.
I'm rooting for the show as I like Jessica.
Sadly I'm also in the camp that thought the show itself though kinda sucked.
Though I haven't exactly liked any of Marvels TV output, outside of some of the Punisher stuff in S2 of DD.
I'm actually really scared for how Iron FIst is going to turn out.
Discotheque
Banned
There's quite a few talented women directors on tv. So it won't be a problem filling the gap.
Basura show but still good on them for the initiative
Basura show but still good on them for the initiative
Jessica Jones doesn't need to have fancy choreography. She wasn't trained by Stick nor is she a professional fighter. She just punches hard.
For people calling about "quality directors" here is the DGA diversity research on FIRST TIME DIRECTORS WITHOUT ANY PROVEN EXPERIENCE
http://www.dga.org/News/PressReleas...rlooked-for-First-Breaks-in-TV-Directing.aspx
Here is the 30-57 (which features shows that have SOME woman) and the part for your first question
For people bad at math, the biggest percent is basicaly 2 women in 14 episodes
and here is the source and a quote for the second question
http://www.dga.org/News/PressReleases/2016/160912-Episodic-Television-Director-Diversity-Report.aspx
http://www.dga.org/News/PressReleas...rlooked-for-First-Breaks-in-TV-Directing.aspx
That really puts things into perspective!
Although, Stranger things seems out of place, yes it's 100% directed by white men, but aren't all of its episodes are directed by those same white men?
Also what are the bolded parts?
Here is the 30-57 (which features shows that have SOME woman) and the part for your first question
For people bad at math, the biggest percent is basicaly 2 women in 14 episodes
and here is the source and a quote for the second question
http://www.dga.org/News/PressReleases/2016/160912-Episodic-Television-Director-Diversity-Report.aspx
Yeah as much as I love the Marvel Netflix shows, they all feel like 9 or 10 episode stories dragged out to 13. Sometimes, like in Daredevil Season 2 or in Luke Cage, they actually feel like 2 or 3 separate stories, and the first one is better than the others.
Aizen.S.Kennedy
Banned
😑😑. Actually yes all black directors would be great for luke cage. And I'm sure If u go thru smallville/arrow/Lois &clark/ batman/Gotham/ daredevil. Etc basically ANY superhero show that stars a white dude since the beginning of superhero shows u will find ENTIRE seasons directed by white males. So your slippery slope argument is dumb. The fact that I can state that as fact without even having to fact check but know for a fact that none have been done with all black or with all women means it should very well be done.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Zero people are being excluded. Doing something to be more inclusive is NOT exclusionary towards the most advantaged groups. This kind of logic is no different than saying that the Ghostbusters "girl power" picture is misandrist.
CaviarMeths
Member
Not surprised this turned into the 402nd "Netflix Marvel shows are too long" thread.
I think it's a Pop-GAF thing?
"Marvel stays winning" translates to "Marvel does cool thing that competitors aren't doing, furthering their reputation as the superior entertainment provider."
I think it's a Pop-GAF thing?
MegaManTrigger
Banned
I think where the issue starts is there are two groups of people with different ways of seeing what this means: 1) The people who see this as a win for the industry as a whole as we edge closer to having women be part of the industry, vs. 2) The people who are more interested about what this means in regards to the quality of the show, which is still an unknown at this point. I think both sides raise valid points.
wut
Permanently A
Junior Member
I'll wait to see if reviews for S2 are good. S1 was so padded with dumb bullshit I couldn't finish it. Couldn't keep watching after
I absolutely despise it when a show dumbs down characters for the sake of the plot moving forward and boy does JJ have a lot of that.
the lawyer in her infinite wisdom decided that letting Kilgrave out of the cage would totally work out in her favor.
Monocle
Member
Why assume the quality of the show is threatened when only women are directing, when nobody tends to worry when only men direct other shows?
MHWilliams
Member
The point of a director is to direct. To place the camera in a place that will tell the story in what they believe in the most interesting way. Michael Bay does not shoot films like Ryan Coogler, who does not shoot films like Elizabeth Banks. Given the same script, you'll be left with very different films.
There are two points to having a team of female directors.
1 - A team of female directors may be have a different point of view, especially on a show with a female lead.
2 - The number of chances for female directors are rather low, as noted by Platy's posts above. This is a chance for them to add to their resumes.
CaviarMeths
Member
TV shows tend to stick to the script much more than movies do due to the nature of serials, but generally speaking, a director can go off script or call for rewrites if they want. They're also the one chiefly responsible for interpreting the script, which can make big creative differences. My go-to example would be Alien: Resurrection. Joss Whedon, who wrote it, hated the movie because the director interpreted the script all wrong, tried to direct it as a straight-forward horror flick rather than the tongue-in-cheek movie that Joss intended. It was supposed to be more Evil Dead, less Texas Chainsaw.
There's also setting up shots, angles, lighting, music, editing choices, all sorts of things that can end up giving a scene or episode entirely different feelings or even themes, if the director chooses to highlight or emphasize certain aspects of the script.
Check out the last episode of Game of Thrones season 6. The opening 10 minutes were phenomenal and I don't think any other director who has worked on the show would have shot it quite like Miguel Sapochnik did, or call for new music to be written like he did.
MegaManTrigger
Banned
Who said (or assumed) the quality was threatened? I never explicitly wrote that nor implied it. When I mentioned that it would be interesting to see, it's because JJ S1 was perceived negatively by some people. And because it is perceived negatively, people have wondered what this means for the future of the show from a narrative and directorial standpoint. Now with this move, it's interesting to see what happens: it could be the case that these women manage to elevate the show to levels far better than what S1 displayed, but the same is possible for the opposite end of the spectrum. Don't get me wrong, I love the move for women in the industry as a whole, but I think we're jumping the gun if we assume that this move means a superior product in S2. It will remain to be seen until S2 is released.
Also, I don't think the gender argument works well in this context. With so much hyper-attention focused on how TV shows, movies, books, etc. deliver on writing and directing nowadays, the gender of the director/writer/creative team matters far less than their ability to put forth an excellent product for the audience. I mean, you still see male directors chastised for creating garbage (and there's really only a few exceptions where you can clearly see their perspective on gender seep into their creativity). What it really comes down to is, as long as people can get behind the narrative, and the character development, the show will be golden.
Raw, untrained power, with people getting thrown all over the place is what they went with (definitely the right choice for the characters' strength levels), but the only fights that didn't look just flat out embarrassing were the bar fight, and Jessica and Trish vs Nuke.
Not having showy choreography doesn't mean everything has to look awful. It was more the way it was all shot and cut together than anything.
Neat. Overall I liked the emotional arc of Jessica Jones more than any other Marvel show out there. I cared more for Jessica than I did Luke or Matt. Yeah, the first season was hokey in places and they could have done a better job reasoning why it went on for so long. But it had the most terrifying villain of any MCU entry.
Palette Swap
Member
It's always disappointing, and yet unsurprising, how some people lose their minds over something so benign. Great initiative.
As an aside, I just read yesterday the newAlias Jessica Jones book by Bendis/Gaydos and I don't know where they're going with this.
Not if Luke settles down with Claire.
As an aside, I just read yesterday the new
Oh for...
Who cares why it's done? This opens up opportunities for female directors. And it's not like the poor male directors will struggle to find work.
The first-time hire stats are telling.
The point is: It's very easy to get more female directors in film and TV. Very easy. But it's not happening. It's worse than in the 90s at the moment. Almost no position in corporate America is less equally distributed. And we see just how silly it is when this story is news.
Funnily enough superhero properties have shown us how easy it would be to get more female directors chances. When DC wanted to make a Wonder Woman movie, suddenly it would look daft if it wasn't directed by a woman and they went out to look for female directors. Several were considered, Michelle McLaren was hired. Due to creative differences she left, and just like that they picked up another capable female director in Patty Jenkins.
Now that Captain Marvel is a movie it would look daft for symbolic reasons if it wasn't directed by a woman. The long and shortlist of directors they consider and talk with? Long as hell. Female directors with experience, new talented indie directors (which make up a lot of male superhero director hires) - there are PLENTY to choose from who would undoubtedly do the job expected. But they are not given a chance until the studios are forced to
The point is: It's very easy to get more female directors in film and TV. Very easy. But it's not happening. It's worse than in the 90s at the moment. Almost no position in corporate America is less equally distributed. And we see just how silly it is when this story is news.
Funnily enough superhero properties have shown us how easy it would be to get more female directors chances. When DC wanted to make a Wonder Woman movie, suddenly it would look daft if it wasn't directed by a woman and they went out to look for female directors. Several were considered, Michelle McLaren was hired. Due to creative differences she left, and just like that they picked up another capable female director in Patty Jenkins.
Now that Captain Marvel is a movie it would look daft for symbolic reasons if it wasn't directed by a woman. The long and shortlist of directors they consider and talk with? Long as hell. Female directors with experience, new talented indie directors (which make up a lot of male superhero director hires) - there are PLENTY to choose from who would undoubtedly do the job expected. But they are not given a chance until the studios are forced to
Intheflorsh
Banned
That's what I was trying to get across in my post, yeah.
Because opportunities don't automatically equate to a better product?
I appreciate the sentiment of hiring only female directors. Some of my favorite episodes of television have been directed by women - like Michelle MacLaren on Breaking Bad. But one can't expect the novelty (for lack of a better word) of only female directors to improve the shortcomings of this series.
I think this is a criticism that can run parallel to enthusiasm for only female directors. Reception to this plan doesn't have to be binary.
Benzychenz
Member
I'm curious, did those that found JJ slow and boring binge the whole 13 episodes over a weekend?
Angelus Errare
Banned
Neither does getting yet another white male director. So why not?
I watched it over the course of three weeks. Pacing was really terrible. The subplots were shallow and most of the supporting cast were so weak that it got bogged down in boring monotony by the time it got back to Kilgrave.
If you would have read the rest of my post, you would have found that I agree with you. I don't care if a man or woman directs it in the context of the finished product's quality.
JJ was a bit too long but people overstate it. I found her regular dealings aside from Kilgrave to be as interesting as the Kilgrave plot. More than the other Marvel shows I felt like I got to know the city and the people around the main character through her eyes. It also felt more grounded and as such more interesting as a character study.
jim-jam bongs
Member
It's crazy that people are getting weird about this, especially in a post Grab-Em-By-The-Pussy world. Jessica Jones isn't just a strong female lead, she's an unreservedly strong female lead who, despite her strength, becomes a victim of rape and abuse at the hands of her partner; which she then overcomes, despite the toll it takes on her. Given the spotlight on abuse of women right now, and the sheer volume of women who are talking about their experiences, I can't understand how people don't see why an all female directors crew wouldn't make total sense for this show, and wouldn't be a really positive thing.
Dragon Puncher
Member
Agreed. I loved the first season, but 80% of that was Killgrave.
Yeah, this is a big concern that I have. They've already exhausted 90% of the source material that Marvel can tackle within the realm of the Netflix TV shows. There's very little MCU crossover allowed so the majority of The Pulse would have to be completely reworked
(especially since Osborn is likely far from appearing)
I really don't know where they can go. ABC's writing teams are definitely hit or miss so original story could be dicey and Bendis isn't really cranking out any gems for them to mine these days for an adaptation.
Kilgrave had very little screentime for much of the episodes. He was the mystery and driving force luring in the back - sure - but all you need for that to work is find a core emotional connection between the main character and the arc, you don't need Tenant or Kilgrave. It was the JJ character who sold it, not the villain. As far as I understand it the 2nd season will focus more on her close relationships and the emotional weight will follow.
Anyway, this has nothing to do with the topic here.
Anyway, this has nothing to do with the topic here.
My boy Will is gonna be the S2 villain. Just give him a red...
So is it the case that women aren't being hired, or that there is just less female directors out there? If there's just less women directors available, then the issue is with TV / film education, not hiring practices.
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