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Marvel to re-evaluate phases 5 and 6 after knowingly having a poor quality phase 4
- Thread starter bitbydeath
- Start date
- Rumor
BaneIsPain
Member
Waste of a Phase. I’m not sure I’m interested anymore other than GotG. well, good luck.
Xenon
Member
I dont see using a laser pointer to highlight the single think that lead to the MCU to the point it is at today, it requires a shot gun spread at Disney
They got arrogant.
Disposed of their lead characters without replacing them.
Stopped using best stories from comic history.
Started drawing from unpopular modern comics.
Diversity and inclusion committees.
Disney +
Marvel process of green screening everything.
B to C List actors
They have lost the plot on why super heroes have been so popular for generations.
Wokeness
Now I want to clarify this last one. Wokeness is not just having a diverse cast, despite what they keep telling us. Wokeness is Interjecting these things in an obvious manner in order to virtue signal. The goal is to get recognition of their effort and activism.
Take for instance Kevin Feige saying that he was going to not have Doctor Strange manspain magic Scarlet Witch. He could have just done it without telling people but the very reason he's doing is so people know he is one of the good ones. Because the industry is under such scrutiny to be as progressive as possible. Considering how he fits into things I'm pretty sure he has to go the extra mile to prove It.
They got arrogant.
Disposed of their lead characters without replacing them.
Stopped using best stories from comic history.
Started drawing from unpopular modern comics.
Diversity and inclusion committees.
Disney +
Marvel process of green screening everything.
B to C List actors
They have lost the plot on why super heroes have been so popular for generations.
Wokeness
Now I want to clarify this last one. Wokeness is not just having a diverse cast, despite what they keep telling us. Wokeness is Interjecting these things in an obvious manner in order to virtue signal. The goal is to get recognition of their effort and activism.
Take for instance Kevin Feige saying that he was going to not have Doctor Strange manspain magic Scarlet Witch. He could have just done it without telling people but the very reason he's doing is so people know he is one of the good ones. Because the industry is under such scrutiny to be as progressive as possible. Considering how he fits into things I'm pretty sure he has to go the extra mile to prove It.
gothmog
Gold Member
Or it was all Covid. Schedules got fucked up and they had to pivot. The pivot wasn't great.
Wildebeest
Member
The harder they try to mine the Marvel back catalogue for commercial material, the more they are going to come back with nuggets of mixed quality that please way fewer people. Their strong point is reinventing the same old 1960s characters and story lines for new generations.
nush
Member
Stitch
Gold Member
He's in Deadpool 3
Toons
Member
Theres like... 2 or 3 gay characters out of maybe 50 - 70 established characters fam. You're revealing more about yourself than me with this one.
Toons
Member
Top Gun was a great movie but I dont see its success being replicated. That said its not even the best Tom Cruise film of the last few years imo. Im much more excited for the new MI stuff
Toons
Member
The folks saying they have no plan just arent paying attention lol. They've been laying a ton of plot threads and establishing a ton of characters. Ohase 4 is setup, it was a new Phase 1 beginning the second "season". Phase 5, which begins in less than 2 months, is going to begin paying off allof that. Its already a foregone conclusion
Toons
Member
Oh there absolutely is, if you ask me. I'd take Falcon and Winter soldier over Cap 1 any day. Iron Man 1 is solid. Iton Man 2 is bottom of MCU tier even still, even if it's watchable.
People going on and on about "Diversity and Inclusion" largely ignoring that these so-called "woke stories" that Disney forced on the MCU are literally from the comics themselves (with some actually pretty good). T
he issue with the last crop of stuff post-Thanos, is that it largely hasn't had much direction. Thanos was literally in the first "Ok we can make a genre out of this" movie with The Avengers, and was seeded throughout that for what seemed like forever until Infinity War/Endgame. I still don't know what the point of the recent "experimental" crop of properties was, especially if it wasn't working towards The Eternals/Celestials/etc. I thought Secret Wars was going to be the big one, but that's being shunted off to D+, despite the seeds of that having been started even before Endgame (and would have been a perfect follow-up). Eternals and Inhumans was such a wasted opportunity, and it seems Disney is unwilling to "fix" misfires and so that whole thing, despite having incredible potential for stories, is just. . .over.
If the short-term goal is to bring in the X-Men, it can't be totally beholden to the Fox version. If it is FF, with Galactus (and GotG has already shown that we're ok with the REALLY weird cosmic stuff), then they need to start planting those seeds (the lynchpin of which should be introducing the Silver Surfer but not blowing your load immediately on Galactus, and instead having the Surfer's motives play out a bit over a few movies where knowing fans are waiting for "the turn" to happen).
TLDR: "Wokeness" isn't the cause of the seeming lull in MCU quality, despite the howls of the most dedicated culture warriors, it is a glaring lack of focus (brought on by the purchase of FOX properties and COVID).
he issue with the last crop of stuff post-Thanos, is that it largely hasn't had much direction. Thanos was literally in the first "Ok we can make a genre out of this" movie with The Avengers, and was seeded throughout that for what seemed like forever until Infinity War/Endgame. I still don't know what the point of the recent "experimental" crop of properties was, especially if it wasn't working towards The Eternals/Celestials/etc. I thought Secret Wars was going to be the big one, but that's being shunted off to D+, despite the seeds of that having been started even before Endgame (and would have been a perfect follow-up). Eternals and Inhumans was such a wasted opportunity, and it seems Disney is unwilling to "fix" misfires and so that whole thing, despite having incredible potential for stories, is just. . .over.
If the short-term goal is to bring in the X-Men, it can't be totally beholden to the Fox version. If it is FF, with Galactus (and GotG has already shown that we're ok with the REALLY weird cosmic stuff), then they need to start planting those seeds (the lynchpin of which should be introducing the Silver Surfer but not blowing your load immediately on Galactus, and instead having the Surfer's motives play out a bit over a few movies where knowing fans are waiting for "the turn" to happen).
TLDR: "Wokeness" isn't the cause of the seeming lull in MCU quality, despite the howls of the most dedicated culture warriors, it is a glaring lack of focus (brought on by the purchase of FOX properties and COVID).
pramod
Banned
Yeah, that's what bothers me about the way Marvel has been treating their more obscure or "minor" characters.
You don't have to try so hard to make every Moon Knight into the next Cap or Iron Man, or even have any connection to the rest of the MCU. They can be their own thing.
That's what the DCEU has done with characters like the Peacemaker, and they did a great job in making these obscure characters memorable by doing the exact opposite what Marvel is doing.
For example what the MCU did with Batroc. Even in the comics, Batroc is meant as a joke character. But they tried so hard to make him some serious terrorist threat, which is completely missing the point of what the character is supposed to be.
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Azurro
Banned
My god, what a bigot, it's spelled chxrxters. Ewww.
AJUMP23
Parody of actual AJUMP23
Wedge?
Toons
Member
Cmon you have GOT to have better ones in the tank than this
Like you could've said "the correct word is QUEER you bigot!" Or something like that.
But this? MEDICORE
Brian Fellows
Pete Carroll Owns Me
They should just kill off the MCU and start the XCU. The Muties have more than enough content for their own universe.
Toons
Member
Peacemaker was James Gunn doing the exact same thing he did with the guardians of the galaxy but for DC characters this time lol
Esca
Member
They lost me with this phase. In order to know what's going on you have to watch everything which isn't bad but they're is so many series now on d+ and that's a lot more time. I'm not a big fan of TV series in general. I much rather a movie or a limited series like 4 episodes. Also a lot of it just does not look that interesting. I've seen all the movies besides wakanda forever and I really didn't care for them even when understanding the d+ info needed to know what is going on some more.
Looks like - from the ANT MAN trailer - that they are quasi-working towards something with Kang the Conqueror (which I completely missed in the trailer the first time seeing Glass Onion) into the actual next Avengers movie. If this is building towards something like "Avengers Forever", that I can get behind, though how they're going to do setup in three years. It also means that they are fine not trying to shoehorn their stories on to just "Earth" and the modern era (one hopes). There are a lot of excellent modern, trippy stories that have come out of MARVEL recently, usually involving Jonathan Hickman, and this could easily set this up (including the "Future Foundation" version of the Fantastic Four, the Council of Richards and Hickman's version of "Secret Wars" - though this has no chance of happening as we're already getting that).
This was my issue with Dr. Strange. I forgot WandaVision was a thing and missed watching it, and watched Multiverse first and was like "When did this happen?" They need to adopt a policy of self-contained stories in the TV shows that aren't prerequisites for other properties. In the comics you don't need to know about Spiderman's recent history to have him show up and do a team up with the Avengers. Hopefully they get better at this and Feige starts pushing back.
Batroc was literally a joke cameo meant for knowing fans. There was nothing "try hard" about that scene in CW other than letting GSP do his thing.
This was my issue with Dr. Strange. I forgot WandaVision was a thing and missed watching it, and watched Multiverse first and was like "When did this happen?" They need to adopt a policy of self-contained stories in the TV shows that aren't prerequisites for other properties. In the comics you don't need to know about Spiderman's recent history to have him show up and do a team up with the Avengers. Hopefully they get better at this and Feige starts pushing back.
Batroc was literally a joke cameo meant for knowing fans. There was nothing "try hard" about that scene in CW other than letting GSP do his thing.
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Azurro
Banned
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
It's been 100% confirmed that Kang the Conqueror is the main villain of this set of phases.
The next Avengers movie is even going to be called Dynasty of Kang or something like that.
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Toons
Member
What's MEDiCORE??
You should get your wife's boyfriend to check your spelling.
JOKES ON YOU! I don't have a wife, a boyfriend or even a girlfriend!
I am INVINCIBLE
(Not the superhero)
bitbydeath
Gold Member
Xenon
Member
They may have sold a few more tickets but it wouldn't have made the quality of their films better.
One of their biggest mistakes was once again virtue signaling, by firing James Gunn. Guardians 3 could have came out this Christmas instead of summer of 2023.
TonyK
Member
I truly disliked all Marvel TV shows in Disney+. They damaged my positive perception about Marvel. Now, between non memorable movies and new characters and these horrendous TV shows, I think Marvel never again will achieve something similar to Infinity War, my favourite superhero movie of all time.
As funny as this is, it was probably gonna be used for that Patty Jenkins x-wing movie well never see.
Doom85
Member
It would have been better to save the Pakistan stuff for Season 2. Pushing Bruno, Nakia, and Zoe out of the story for two episodes only to rush them back in for the final episode was poor structuring, plus Kamala didn’t really do much to establish herself as Jersey City’s hero so the townsfolk sticking up for her at the end felt forced. She should have stayed in her town for all of Season 1 to build her rep as the local hero.
Also a better antagonist. Should have used the Inventor as the villain for Season 1 as he was a villain in the early issues of Ms. Marvel’s first run, and would have fit the show’s generally more light hearted tone.
Still a good show, but was kind of carried by the cast and stylization in some scenes.
chromhound
Member
Not tired. Just that the movies got shitty
Batiman
Banned
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Toons
Member
That’s up there with Captain Marvel and Eternals for me. The absolute worst of the MCU.
Well yea you and I have very different tastes then.
Thor 2, Iron Man 2, TIH are all lower than all three of those. I quite liked eternals actually.
Azurro
Banned
I think your title is actually SHILLIO - Protector of the IP, Perfect Consumer, Licker of boots.
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nush
Member
Black Widow is where the rot set in "Unresolved family issues we talk about at length for ages" - The Movie. It was so hard to make it through to the end of that one.
Toons
Member
Ok, nevermind that wierd gay joke was actually better than this.
Do you have anything actually good? Like I get you're trying to insult me for having a different opinion, i can respect that, but surely all this amazing content you're consuming instead of this should provide you with better than... "shillio".
That actually almost sounds kinda cool. I think I'll use that on the comic project I'm working on
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Biggest Trails Stan
It would have been better to save the Pakistan stuff for Season 2. Pushing Bruno, Nakia, and Zoe out of the story for two episodes only to rush them back in for the final episode was poor structuring, plus Kamala didn’t really do much to establish herself as Jersey City’s hero so the townsfolk sticking up for her at the end felt forced. She should have stayed in her town for all of Season 1 to build her rep as the local hero.
Also a better antagonist. Should have used the Inventor as the villain for Season 1 as he was a villain in the early issues of Ms. Marvel’s first run, and would have fit the show’s generally more light hearted tone.
Still a good show, but was kind of carried by the cast and stylization in some scenes.
Despite my issues with Ms Marvel, it's still the best of the Phase 4 show. The flaws you mentioned is my issues with the show too. The others shows being Loki and Moonknight that are the best of Phase 4.
Movies wise, Doctor Strange In The Multiverse of Madness is the best movie of Phase 4
I think it's a good idea that Marvel Studios is reevaluating thier slate.
I'm getting Comic Book Fatigue and its due to how much stuff we are getting.
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im really not looking forward to Disney completely bastardizing Wolverine's character. Like maybe in Deadpool 3 it'll be solid, but you know they are just going to make him a quippy asshole like virtually every other MCU character at this point.
nush
Member
It's a tie with Spiderman.
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Biggest Trails Stan
nush
Member
It's not the fall from grace that Love and Thunder was. Ragnarok was a high water mark.
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Biggest Trails Stan
Yeah I enjoyed Love And Thunder but that movie really disappointed me with Gorr The God Butcher. I'm a big fan of that Story Arc in the Thor comics and the movie could have been so much better if the movie was longer and Taika wasn't directing it
OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
Save us Wolverine. He's the biggest character to not be present in the mcu so far. If they can nail the casting and the writing of him we got a shot. The X-men and the mutants of course can bring a lot of fresh stories and characters. I'd love to see someone like Mr Sinister. Apocalypse in a more accurate comic book look would be cool instead of that Power Ranger bad guy we got.
Dr.D00p
Member
It was self indulgent trash and a clear sign that post Endgame, The MCU is clearly past its peak and on a fast, downward trajectory into irrelevance.
One of the things I liked about L&T, which might have hurt it in other ways, was Taika's possible metacommentary about restrictions directing these sorts of movies and the scaling of battles with Thor from the first shown to the last and how the ridiculousness can work and not work in different ways.
Doom85
Member
My issue is the Fox X-men series was notorious for underutilizing many X-men just to focus constantly on Wolverine. Xavier, Magneto, and a few others managed to get some development, but still, a TEAM series should actually develop the team as a whole. I personally am hoping they save Wolverine for at LEAST the second MCU X-men film. Besides, we’ll be getting the Fox Wolverine for one last time in Deadpool 3, so it’s not like the character would be totally absent for a while.