Marvel vs Capcom 3: Fate of Two Worlds |OT| - Ya down with OTG? Yeah, you know me!

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Chamber said:
I'm still wondering why (S)SF4 was considered newbie friendly.
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SF4 was considered newbie friendly? LOL when?

About the only thing newbie friendly about it is that if you get beat up a lot you get access to ULTRA moves which allowed a potential comeback.

Everything about it screams hardcore. Plinking, just frame combos, FADCing, kara throws and that's just where it starts.

I got out of SSF4 early, it's probably the most difficult fighting game I have ever played.
 
Dahbomb said:
SF4 was considered newbie friendly? LOL when?

About the only thing newbie friendly about it is that if you get beat up a lot you get access to ULTRA moves which allowed a potential comeback.

Everything about it screams hardcore. Plinking, just frame combos, FADCing, kara throws and that's just where it starts.
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Cause for the most part the game is newbie friendly :P how the fuck are kara throws plinking and fadcing hard at all?
 
Chamber said:
I'm still wondering why (S)SF4 was considered newbie friendly.
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Cynical answer: Newer players were winning and all veterans think their favorite installment of their franchise is the deepest while the rest are button mashy, friendly noob fests. Ultras are stupid and reward players for getting hit.

Sincere answer: Generous reversal window, various shortcuts and auto-corrects on specials. Capcom's did such a good job of convincing nonFG fans that SF was more accessible that even veterans believed that message.

edit: Also, newer games probably seem easier but the things have changed so much.

1. With the internet age in full effect everything is out in the open now. You're not going to have a situation where Japanese learns how to roll-cancel and the US is gets got offguard.

2. The deconstruction of games happens much more rapidly as result, seeing as people know what to look for now. Think about how improved kinselogy produces better athletes.
 
QisTopTier said:
Cause for the most part the game is newbie friendly :P how the fuck are kara throws plinking and fadcing hard at all?
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By the above logic, ST must be incredibly easy because you can just double tap all the 1-frame reversals.

I wouldn't consider any game newbie friendly based on what techniques are needed to learn the game, but rather what decisions need to be made on a higher level to beat an opponent well-versed in footsies, zoning, etc.
 
the huge reversal window that made it really difficult to set up resets was the biggest thing along with the input shortcuts and the general shallow combo system.

It was just annoying to have to rely on having frame advantage if you knew someone was mashing SRK to get a reversal as soon as your combo ended. It also contributed to a lot of the defense focus of the game.

I really like this game but man is there a lot of dumb stuff in it. I still have a really hard time dealing with people who just spam high priority projectiles like hadokens or magneto's disruptor on the ground. I guess I can't complain because for now arthur is my point man and that's his game as well, keepaway with those spears.

One thing I don't get about the game is ground game/footsies. I play a lot of people who I know are going to do a certain set of attacks because that's all the do all game is jump in and do a magic series, jump in and do a magic series. But I am really not understanding how to punish them for it or get momentum going my way.

I play Arthur, Ammy and Tron, all assist B. I love tron's assist B for GTFO for rushdown characters like Dante and X-23 and wolverine etc. People constantly hitting buttons and not covering their attacks get fucked up by that assist.
 
QisTopTier said:
Cause for the most part the game is newbie friendly :P how the fuck are kara throws plinking and fadcing hard at all?
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Compared to what? Maybe SF3 but even then that game didn't have FADC stuff.

Plinking is just a really unintuitive concept, I never understood the rationale behind something like that. Kara throws I get and something I can perform well enough. The frame link combos are the worst, I mean holy shit that stuff gives me nightmares.

If you compare SF4 to any of the 3D fighters, then you would find that it isn't newbie friendly at all.
 
Duelist said:
By the above logic, ST must be incredibly easy because you can just double tap all the 1-frame reversals.

I wouldn't consider any game newbie friendly based on what techniques are needed to learn the game, but rather what decisions need to be made on a higher level to beat an opponent well-versed in footsies, zoning, etc.
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Even with that it's easier to grasp than other fighters. Saying otherwise is just being in denial. There is a reason why so many people are "good" at the game. *no I'm not saying I am I haven't bothered even remotely trying to play it really in like 7 months now* :P
 
ST is a pretty easy game too, mechanically/execution wise. ST was always more of a mindgame than an execution game.

It's just that one mistake gets you killed vs SSF4 where the damage is lower and it's more allowing people to play defensive and come back.
 
Why are you even saying FADC's are hard? That shit is damn near brain dead easy. You want a cancel that takes effort get down False Roman Cancels :D
 
QisTopTier said:
Why are you even saying FADC's are hard? That shit is damn near brain dead easy. You want a cancel that takes effort get down False Roman Cancels :D
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Probably the most difficult players to use in SSF4 are makoto because of her dash punch cancels and command grab setups, and C. Viper because of SJ cancels and complicated input stuff for ultras.
 
QisTopTier said:
Even with that it's easier to grasp than other fighters. Saying otherwise is just being in denial. There is a reason why so many people are "good" at the game. *no I'm not saying I am I haven't bothered even remotely trying to play it really in like 7 months now* :P
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I'm not really sure what you consider by many "good" players, since most large tourneys have a pretty consistent top 8.
 
SonOfABeep said:
Probably the most difficult players to use in SSF4 are makoto because of her dash punch cancels and command grab setups, and C. Viper because of SJ cancels and complicated input stuff for ultras.
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Yeah c.viper and to a lesser degree maks cancels are actually difficult, viper isn't a damn sf character at all.
 
QisTopTier said:
Why are you even saying FADC's are hard? That shit is damn near brain dead easy. You want a cancel that takes effort get down False Roman Cancels :D
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It was always a foreign concept for me when I got SF4 first. Like being able to cancel a Shoryuken into FADC into another something else was mind warping for me. Then I saw what other characters can do with some FADC into their game and it was like... this is a whole new SF.

It's not that I couldn't do it, it's that I hard trouble incorporating into my main game like I was supposed to. I especially had trouble with the "dash" part, I ended up doing too much and missed the follow up or did too little and missed the FADC altogether.

Ironically I can do False Roman Cancels, I can do just frames in Tekken and just about any combo in that game, I can do the crazier stuff in VF, I can parry in SF3 but I still can't play SF4 at that level.

And don't get me started on Viper, holy shit.
 
QisTopTier said:
Yeah c.viper and to a lesser degree maks cancels are actually difficult, viper isn't a damn sf character at all.
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There are pictures of two characters from another (canceled?) project that look similar to Viper and Rufus. People used to go ballistic whenever they were posted.
 
QisTopTier said:
Why are you even saying FADC's are hard? That shit is damn near brain dead easy. You want a cancel that takes effort get down False Roman Cancels :D
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I can't fuck with FADC into Ultra. Cannot do it. Full Hakumen corner counter combo's? No problem. Ryu DP into ultra? 15% of the time I'll get it off. I never really tried to play SF4 that hard, though.
 
It's really weird, I am way more serious with MVC3 than I was with SF4 even though SF4 is the more serious game.

I guess with MVC3 I know I can go a lot further.
 
I actually like MvC 3 as opposed to me feeling that I have to play Super because everyone else does. Within one week I had spent more time in training mode than my entire 2 years with Street Fighter 4.
 
mvc3_phoenix_wright.jpg
 
_tetsuo_ said:
I actually like MvC 3 as opposed to me feeling that I have to play Super because everyone else does. Within one week I had spent more time in training mode than my entire 2 years with Street Fighter 4.
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Same here. Training mode is so awesome.
 
whoever said iron man's proton cannon can't be link to proton cannon with xfactor is bullshit.

I did, xfactor > proton cannon > dash > proton cannon.
 
Smision said:
the link timing in SSFIV is still a huge mystery to me. It feels like there's a .3 second window to get the input in. And that window is hidden in a different spot for every move :\

I wouldn't say I like MVC3 better, but it's much more accessible. I guess that's how it was with MVC2 as well.
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I can easily say I do like MVC3 a lot better for that sole reason. Don't get me wrong I still get my ass handed to me online, but I get the feeling from training offline that if I put more time in it, I could get kinda good at this. The mission mode in SF4 on the other hand didn't entice me to practice further. The combo input timings felt so damn arbitrary and failing what could be simple tasks 20 times in a row was very frustrating for someone who never really got into fighting games on an actual competitive level.
 
SSF4 is scrub/casual friendly insofar as it's impossible to control a match without heavy option select abuse and a lot of guesswork. Easy reversals, Ultras, auto-correct, shitty frame data, shitty dashes and generally slow speed ensure that it's impossible to completely route an inexperienced/less-competitive minded player without enacting baiting tactics to open them up for big damage - a necessary approach to the game that threatens momentum.

There's nothing casual about FADC, let's not be ridiculous. There's nothing intuitive about the concept at all and despite its potential in concept, it's been regulated, by the developers themselves, to only a handful of usages (making DPs safe, juggling Ultras, and specials etc.).

It's easily executed once conceptualized, sure, but I've met no truly casual players of the game that can FADC Ultra, or even wrap their heads around it.
 
I've spent roughly 40 hours offline(mostly in training mode) and maybe 10 online. I don't know if it's because the marvel style play is brand new to me or because the online sucks but I've been putting in some serious offline work.

Also does anyone know the link the the GVN Winter Brawl stream?
 
Nils said:
I can easily say I do like MVC3 a lot better for that sole reason. Don't get me wrong I still get my ass handed to me online, but I get the feeling from training offline that if I put more time in it, I could get kinda good at this. The mission mode in SF4 on the other hand didn't entice me to practice further. The combo input timings felt so damn arbitrary and failing what could be simple tasks 20 times in a row was very frustrating for someone who never really got into fighting games on an actual competitive level.
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Exactly right. Nearly two weeks with Marvel and I feel like I'm a better player than I was on day 1 (from super suck to just really suck). I spent a good two months messing around in SF4's training mode and I don't think I picked up anything. That kind of stuff is really discouraging especially when Capcom marketed the game as newbie friendly.
 
jdub03 said:
I've spent roughly 40 hours offline(mostly in training mode) and maybe 10 online. I don't know if it's because the marvel style play is brand new to me or because the online sucks but I've been putting in some serious offline work.

Also does anyone know the link the the GVN Winter Brawl stream?
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http://justin.tv/teamsp00ky
 
Chamber said:
Exactly right. Nearly two weeks with Marvel and I feel like I'm a better player than I was on day 1 (from super suck to just really suck). I spent a good two months messing around in SF4's training mode and I don't think I picked up anything. That kind of stuff is really discouraging especially when Capcom marketed the game as newbie friendly.
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It has nothing to do with Capcom's marketing and everything to do with your approach to the game. If you wasted time in training mode during SSF4, it' because that game's gameplay simply didn't inspire you enough to expand. Marvel is a completely different type of game which likely gels with you more. The game's not magical.
 
Kimosabae said:
It has nothing to do with Capcom's marketing and everything to do with your approach to the game. If you wasted time in training mode during SSF4, it' because that game's gameplay simply didn't inspire you enough to expand. Marvel is a completely different type of game which likely gels with you more. The game's not magical.
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It's not as if I went into SF4 thinking I could be the next Daigo. Just that anything beyond casual play with friends ended with frustration.

Don't get me wrong. I like SF4. It's just that I had to forget any notion of trying to be good at it before that was possible.
 
Chamber said:
It's not as if I went into SF4 thinking I could be the next Daigo. Just that anything beyond casual play with friends ended with frustration.

Don't get me wrong. I like SF4. It's just that I had to forget any notion of trying to be good at it before that was possible.
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That's part of my point. If you think that Marvel won't provide similar frustrations once you drop the casual approach for a more competitive one you're only fooling yourself. You may find the game more fun than SSF4, generally, but you won't be paying attention to that once you start focusing more on how to beat Sentinel Assist traps, Dark Phoenix, Trish traps, Wolverine rushdown, etc, etc.
 
God's Beard said:
Plinking turns SSF4 into an Imagine: Comboz™ baby-game.

I remember when 1-frame links actually separated top players from everyone else.
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Because people weren't double tapping before plinking existed.
 
Kimosabae said:
That's part of my point. If you think that Marvel won't provide similar frustrations once you drop the casual approach for a more competitive one you're only fooling yourself. You may find the game more fun than SSF4, generally, but you won't be paying attention to that once you start focusing more on how to beat Sentinel Assist traps, Dark Phoenix, Trish traps, Wolverine rushdown, etc, etc.
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I already dropped the competitive approach to Marvel. When I say "I think I can be good at this game", I just mean I think I'll be able execute decent combos and hold my own online. The first couple of days with the game I kept reading guides and trying to put together teams that fit together for some predefined strategy and I hated the game because of it. Now I just play with Dante/Mags/Ryu because they're my 3 favorite characters and see what I can do.
 
Chamber said:
I already dropped the competitive approach to Marvel. When I say "I think I can be good at this game", I just mean I think I'll be able execute decent combos and hold my own online. The first couple of days with the game I kept reading guides and trying to put together teams that fit together for some predefined strategy and I hated the game because of it. Now I just play with Dante/Mags/Ryu because they're my 3 favorite characters and see what I can do.
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Great. We agree. :)
 
_tetsuo_ said:
I actually like MvC 3 as opposed to me feeling that I have to play Super because everyone else does. Within one week I had spent more time in training mode than my entire 2 years with Street Fighter 4.
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I feel pretty much the exact opposite of this.

I really, truly loathe this game. I've played hundreds of matches with my friends and about 200 online and I just hate it. I hate the crazy zoning assists, I hate the prevalent use of super armour, I hate the strong amount of variance of dashing options on different characters, I hate the shoddy netcode, and I even hate the graphics. I don't know why I'm still playing it because I don't have a single nice thing to say about it; the only reason that I can come up with is that everyone else is playing it.

I cannot wait for CS2 to come out and liberate me from this game.
 
Fugu said:
I feel pretty much the exact opposite of this.

I really, truly loathe this game. I've played hundreds of matches with my friends and about 200 online and I just hate it. I hate the crazy zoning assists, I hate the prevalent use of super armour, I hate the strong amount of variance of dashing options on different characters, I hate the shoddy netcode, and I even hate the graphics. I don't know why I'm still playing it because I don't have a single nice thing to say about it; the only reason that I can come up with is that everyone else is playing it.

I cannot wait for CS2 to come out and liberate me from this game.
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Your opinion on fighting games is meh :D

This makes no sense, THE GAME SUCKS CAUSE THERE IS VARIETY
 
Fugu said:
I feel pretty much the exact opposite of this.

I really, truly loathe this game. I've played hundreds of matches with my friends and about 200 online and I just hate it. I hate the crazy zoning assists, I hate the prevalent use of super armour, I hate the strong amount of variance of dashing options on different characters, I hate the shoddy netcode, and I even hate the graphics. I don't know why I'm still playing it because I don't have a single nice thing to say about it; the only reason that I can come up with is that everyone else is playing it.

I cannot wait for CS2 to come out and liberate me from this game.
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About the only 2 negatives found in this post.

You basically described the 3 main types of play/characters in the game: Zoners, heavy armored/grapplers and rushdown characters. The fact that there is prevalent use of all 3 types is actually... good.
 
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