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Marvel vs Capcom 3: Fate of Two Worlds |OT3| Self-Control Support Group
- Thread starter Teknopathetic
- Start date
scytheavatar
Member
I think the definition of a Major needs to be considered too. To me the Canada tourneys and Shadowloo Showdown can't be considered a "major" when the standard is just not there save a couple of players.
SolarPowered
Member
Heath just let us know that the Capcom changelog will be coming at the end of the week(Friday most likely). Figured I'd let you guys know since some folks might not be active in the UMvC3 thread.
Hey wait a minute....Road said:
Is this fighting game philosophy 101? I'd say it isw because they are the best in the game.Kimosabae said:
SolarPowered
Member
Still better to run Wesker on point. Any reason in particular for the rocks?El Sloth said:
EraldoCoil
Member
4th place marvel teams this past weekend at drom. Woot.
win of the tournament was my win over Ricky.
Hopefully can win it all for y'all next time. Time to hit up the lab again and fix all the small things till ultimate comes out.
win of the tournament was my win over Ricky.
Hopefully can win it all for y'all next time. Time to hit up the lab again and fix all the small things till ultimate comes out.
Alright, Wesker it is then. Dorm is the focus of my team since he has always been the only character in MvC3 that immediately clicked with me, so I want rocks to hold people in place after a flame carpet OTG.SolarPowered said:
I hadn't considered that, nice. But since Doom will be my anchor I would probably be better off just popping Wesker's level 3 instead wouldn't I?Frantic said:
Grats, man.EraldoCoil said:
I actually felt bad for that tournament, though. They got overshadowed a bit by Yipes and it seemed like they reached too far in trying to be "big", especially given the prior two weekends of big tournaments.
I think if they broke 2k viewers, they only did it at the end.
Depends on the situation. After an OTG, the only way Wesker can do a hyper finisher without an assist is via THC. Depending on the situation, a THC is sometimes better to use than an actual Level 3, namely when you only have two bars. If you're using Dorm second though, you usually won't be getting Doom in a level 2 THC unless you used Dorm as an assist right before you THC'd, so I guess that point isn't all that useful, haha.El Sloth said:
Congrats, dude.EraldoCoil said:
Ah, I didn't know that. Thanks for that, I'll keep it in mind. It's still good to know in those situations where mid battle my line up get's jumbled and Wesker can call Doom for a 2 meter THC.Frantic said:
Looking over the UMvC3 changelogs, I don't understand why Capcom doesn't switch out one of Dorm's assist for a flame carpet assist. I want all my characters to have cockblock flames in front of them dammit.
SolarPowered said:
This is a belabored topic at this point, but let's try this again: the characters with the fastest initial success in a competitive FG will always be the characters with the lowest execution barrier. Doesn't mean they will remain at the top if things manage to settle - but it doesn't necessarily imply they will be dethroned either. Marvel 3 is far from settled.
Look at Bomb's breakdown - the characters with low execution requirements dominate everything. Wesker, Phoenix, Magnus (who can be effective in team chemistry due to his simpler Fly combos, despite being the most intricate combo character in the game overall, probably), She Hulk, Wolverine, Ammy, Akuma.
Dante, who everyone and their mother likes to bitch and whine about, has won one major tournament, is less prominent in top 8 that many of the prior listed characters and has been in three GFs - but according a lot of you, he's the best character in the game. Based on what? The stats don't point to it. But it's obvious to all of us that Dante is a great character, because his potential is obvious. He requires execution and It takes time for people to become good at things. Marn combos with BnBs with Dante don't cut it at this point, because they don't add shit to a team in regards to Synergy.
Dante is one of the most used characters, no doubt, but he doesn't win like other characters due to how relatively easy it is to drop his combos in comparison to someone like Wolverine or Wesker - it's his combo capacity that really adds to a team's synergy. But that can change. Dante is flawed, intrinsically, despite how people like to pretend otherwise.
Iron Man is one of the darkest Dark Horses in FG history, imo. I think IM is at least a high A, if not - S tier character. You read that right. What is this character missing, exactly? Good health, raw damage with no Assist - upwards of 700, 000 with one meter, a rapidfire cr. L for hit-confirming into these combos, GDLK Assist, most versatile Tri-Dash in the game, Fly mixups, A Flight Mode that helps stay away from X-Factor, outzones everyone but Mags, Doom, Dark Phoenix and maybe Trish, can self-OTG, has a double jump (which is a surprising commodity in this game), 500+ off an Airthrow with no Assist, a Beam Hyper (with admittedly slow startup, but the physical hitbox gives it other applications)...
Why is this character not tops? Oh yeah, he's hard to play. And he's not popular. That has no legitimacy in face of the facts, but people are always waiting for someone to show them why something is good, instead of connecting the dots, going into Training Mode and showing themselves. People pick Iron Man as an Assist primarily, which often means those players are trash with Iron Man, because you don't become good with a high execution character (or any character, really) always having them 3rd on your team. People lose badly with Iron Man and whine that he's trash.
Iron Man is the SSF4 Viper of Marvel - more so than MvC3 Viper is, because everyone's perception of that character being good carried over from SSF4. For those that don't know, Viper was considered trash in SF4 before the game hit consoles and was still barely "mid-tier" throughout that game's lifespan. Just like Iron Man, people just didn't know wtf to do with her, and there were easier characters to win with.
Everyone's just now waking up to MvC3 Viper now and admitting that her "theoretical maximum" isn't that theoretical, causing some to hyperbolize that she's the absolute best in the game. But remember, 7-8 months ago, her capacity was unachievable and irrelevant to the discussion.
Ultimate Marvel VS. Capcom 3 is one the biggest agents of blue balls, ever.
Karsticles
Member
Good stuff DahBomb.
LOL ok.God's Beard said:
They are considered majors and they had EVO points. Of course they didn't have the competition but the same can be said for something like Summer Jam, ECT3 where it was only East Coast players showing up. Besides the Canada/SS stuff don't upset the stats much at all, the same rankings would apply except you wouldn't see Hulk there because that's the only time Hulk made top 8 (shout outs to Family Guy for hyper performance against NerdJosh).
Wolverine/Wesker/Phoenix are easy characters to win with or play. Same applies to She Hulk who also dominates in the listings.
Magneto got a ton of representation because he's good AND he had a major legacy following from MVC2. The same sort of applies to Sentinel and Storm despite not being good. Sentinel is way over represented and Storm got more representation than some people think she deserved.
You are not going to see anyone debate that Ryu is better than Viper, Zero or Dante but results say otherwise. The numbers and stats don't really paint the big picture because they are not a full representation of character strength. Execution plays a major role in dictation character picks and of course tournament play and wins. What if ChrisG picked Dante over Ryu? Dante would have almost as many tournament wins as Wolverine.
Pretty much every top player respects Dante, Viper, Zero (and the other S tiers) as the best in the game. If the game was fleshed out more and allowed to breath these characters would've seen more representation guaranteed.
Agreed, MVC3 is far from settled. Already there has been a decline in Wolverine usage if you look at the stats very closely. There is also a rise in Viper and Zero play as of late.
Of course this is true and I pretty much said this going into EVO that the winner of the tournament is going to be Wolverine/Wesker + Top tier assist (Akuma/Haggar/Tron/Dante Jam session/Sentinel Drones) + Phoenix. This combination is easy as hell to win with and someone is going to abuse it. Season Beatings final was a no brainer, it was the exact same formula. And guess what there are more combinations of this exact same formula out there.
Dante has pretty much been getting better with age in MVC3. He was day 1 dominant and he is currently dominant. No one doubted him being good and in S tier despite him not bringing the results. Right now he is the best character in the game if nothing is done about that glitch. He's also the best character against Phoenix right now and has the best match ups against the "other" S tiers as I like to call them.
I don't agree with IM being High A/Low S at all, more like Low High/Upper Mid. Too many characters that are just simply better than him (around 15 or so). Those tools listed aren't that godlike, most of the S tiers have at least that much plus twice as much or just simply their tools are too godlike. Iron Man IS underrated and is a dark horse but he is not some sleeper S tier character.
Iron Man is very popular but he doesn't get played in Marvel because he is really too hard and there isn't enough reward for the execution requirement. The reward from putting in the time with Viper/Magneto/Dante/Zero is much much higher than IM. People have seen what IM can do, they have seen videos of him and they have seen matches of him. It's not godlike and people just say "if that's the best that IM can do then I am not going to spend months training with him if I can put in months in X character and get way more profit".
Viper was considered by many to be "on paper top tier" since day 1 once her tools were broken down. I really hope Enzo pops out that quote from Haunts where he says that in 3 or more months Viper will be top 3 in the game. Shit was prophetic.
Well Viper still hasn't reached her theoretical maximum and neither has Dante or Zero for that matter. Neither have many characters like Spider Man, Jill, MODOK, Felicia, Joe and X-23. Although for some of these characters their theoretical max is still not as good as some of the S tiers. Someone like Phoenix/Wolverine are stuck in month 1 because no one has even BOTHERED to figure out more stuff on them because they are already so powerful. Wolverine had a TOD starting at 1 meter since like week 1 of game and it took people 8 months to TRY it in a match. It took so long because there was no need... he was killing people with his basic mission mode combo. THAT'S an S tier character, where even your base level is godlike. If your character has to reach a theoretical max to reach another character's base level... yeah it's not looking pretty. The difference between someone like Viper/Dante/Zero compared to say Iron Man is that the other 3 if pushed would be better than Wolverine but not Iron Man. Hence people stick with these characters.
Here's what would be different if Vanilla was allowed to breath:
*More Viper, Dante and Zero winning tournaments with more technology found out on them (pretty much what people have been saying since day 1)
*Even less Sentinels.
*More Phoenixes but even more snap back/mix up technology
*Less Wolverines, She Hulks and Weskers because they have unfavorable match ups against Dante and Zero esp with a top assist and their damage output is pretty much topped out
*Steady number of Taskmasters and Ammy. More technology on Ammy and more people learning TODs with Taskmaster.
*More Jills, Trish, Dooms, X-23s, Spider Mans, Felicias, MODOK and Iron Mans in competitive play but still less than the tops. Trish especially would be picked up more often since she has favorable match ups vs the "new" S tiers
*More Akuma assists simply because it's too good with teleporters and rushdown
*More Trons and Haggars because they are godlike
*Less of the same Mid or lower characters
*More use of guard breaks, less use of DHC glitches
It's not going to be THAT much different but if there were more players of Zero/Viper things would look different. Zero is someone who doesn't even have that high of an execution barrier to be top tier.
Its meangingless because i believe any potential change would be meaningless as well. I dont see a reason to believe that Iron Man would be S tier if the game would be given more time, or Modok, or Hsienko or whatever.
Thanks to the internet, (Streams, youtube, srk, ect) the amount of time needed to explore a game is dramatically shortened. We know who the better characters are, and i believe they dominate the bulk of the top 8 teams.
Thanks to the internet, (Streams, youtube, srk, ect) the amount of time needed to explore a game is dramatically shortened. We know who the better characters are, and i believe they dominate the bulk of the top 8 teams.
The first is true but it doesn't discount the possibility of new game breaking tech found like DHC glitch or Quicksilver. That sort of thing shifts tiers around. Dante as of THIS post is undeniably the best character in the game because he has Quicksilver.
The 2nd is some what true. We know who is good within the next few months but it's going to take longer for people to get there. Like people have seen that Zero is top tier material but it's going to be a long time before he puts in numbers at top 8s. He is not going to dominate the top 8s despite people knowing at the back of their mind that he is good enough.
I don't know if any of you guys follow SRK... but right after Viscant lost to Flocker he made a nice post about the whole Wesker + Haggar vs Zero + invincible assist match up. He said that if Zero is allowed to breath he would make some of the current S tiers sort of unfavorable as Zero just dominates the match up (Wolverine and Wesker were brought up).. almost enough that he himself would have to drop Wesker. However for this to happen, there needs to be as many Zeros as Weskers in tournaments winning and representing which is a LONG time from now.
the quicksilver stuff is a glitch, Yipes automatically banned it and i cant see anybody else not doing the same. Dante is still S tier, and i think things like what Pr Rog was doing in the Good vs Evil thing are more important than a glitch (that desk would have found eventually anyways lol)
Yipes only soft banned it and DHC glitch gets used also.
Although for sure that shit should be banned but my point is that something SO powerful was discovered on a character that action had to be taken on it. There is no reason for something slightly less broken but still powerful to be discovered on another character and that might move him/her up the tiers. Glitch or not. So many glitches already get abused in MVC3, like the switch glitch.
Although for sure that shit should be banned but my point is that something SO powerful was discovered on a character that action had to be taken on it. There is no reason for something slightly less broken but still powerful to be discovered on another character and that might move him/her up the tiers. Glitch or not. So many glitches already get abused in MVC3, like the switch glitch.
VISCANT said:
JeTmAn81
Member
IMO, the Quicksilver glitch is a non-issue because it's clearly not something that will be allowed by tournament organizers. Even the DHC glitch isn't nearly so bad because it doesn't guarantee wins and can be done with many different characters. This is just a bug, something that should be a highlight in a Desk video and nothing more.
Man, that post from Viscant coincides damn nearly perfectly with my opinion of the matter of Zero and Wesker, except explained way better than I could have done. I'm really not looking forward to fighting the buffed Zero army in Ultimate.
Thanks for posting that, Dahbomb - and also for posting the tournament results. Always love reading stuff like this, haha.
Thanks for posting that, Dahbomb - and also for posting the tournament results. Always love reading stuff like this, haha.
Oldschoolgamer
The physical form of blasphemy
Speaking of glitches, I'm kinda saddened that quicksilver was one of the only cool infinites found in the game. I got hyped when I saw Mag's go to work with his in MvC2. Chun-li's was probably the only thing coming close. Even then...it's Chun-li and the setup wasn't easy. LOL.
The simple fact that Quicksilver can freeze the game is reason enough that it would get banned. An infinite is an infinite, but that is on some Gambit glitch god tier of infinites. No way it would get a pass.
The simple fact that Quicksilver can freeze the game is reason enough that it would get banned. An infinite is an infinite, but that is on some Gambit glitch god tier of infinites. No way it would get a pass.
i've been playing zero,wesker,akuma for a while now. probably since a month after the game came out and i can definitely say i've always had trouble fighting trish with zero and wesker so that's good to hear it might not be such a good match up for me.
let the quicksilver glitch rock till ultimate. shit is so hype.
let the quicksilver glitch rock till ultimate. shit is so hype.
If you did not watch that latest, legendary Guard Crush with Rush Hour.. I think you know what you should be doing right now.smurfx said:
I was crying of laughter IRL when Mags was doing an air combo and Chris Hu was just yelling OTG! OTG! OTG!
Also, this.
ThatCrazyGuy
Member
How is that particular glitch hype? It should (and I assumed will) be banned. It can freeze the game, and freezes the screen as well.
I don't know why Mr. Quotes was yelling so loud when it happened. I am down for yelling on the mic btw during hype moments, but that was too much. I was shaking my head, why so excited.
I was more like Yipes, I chuckled when I saw it.
I don't know why Mr. Quotes was yelling so loud when it happened. I am down for yelling on the mic btw during hype moments, but that was too much. I was shaking my head, why so excited.
I was more like Yipes, I chuckled when I saw it.
Parallax Scroll
Banned
It was exciting because the stream went from "RogueYoshi says he's got a new glitch" to him actually landing it in a match in a matter of minutes. It's a much more interesting way to debut it than just making a youtube video.ThatCrazyGuy said:
Chris Hu is the best.enzo_gt said:
Thnx everyone for the support this season!!!! ultimate i think imma go a little more hardcore and of course im still rocking magnus!!! main characters will be Magnus,Vergil,Dante,Wesker,Nemesis,Akuma and captain america.. I WANNA HIT THE LAB ALREADY!!
From yipes facebook fanpage. Lol yipes playing Cap.
From yipes facebook fanpage. Lol yipes playing Cap.
So that's 5 characters you'd expect Yipes to play and Nemesis and CapAm. Interesting.Grecco said:
Kind of thought he'd give Strange.
I'm actually so stoked to see what pros have to bring to the table.
Viscant already said that he's heavily considering other options cause his team got nerfed, if anything I only see Wesker staying.
MarlinPie says he's ditching Ammy and probably Mags too in favour of PW, Nova or Strange.
Team EG is also probably in for a shakeup along with all the frauds out there.
I wonder if Combofiend will shake up his team too, I see She-Hulk getting replaced at maximum, Spencer will stay, Combo likes him way too much.
I can see Chris G shaking it up too, probably will keep Ryu cause of the straight buffs he's got and how that's his signature character.
And of course, I wonder if MastaCJ will revamp his old Dorm team now that Dorm has gotten a bit snappier and trickier overall.
I'm more confused about why he'd pick up Nemesis. His team has always had meaty health so I guess that could be a reason but his team also consists of characters with at least average mobility whereas Nemesis doesn't fit that bill. Will be interesting, I don't see him staying with him at all.smurfx said: