Somebody above said the game was pushed up but also you can tell by the content so far that the game is being rushed.
Marvel Vs. Capcom: Infinite Characters and Stages Roster Discussion Thread
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Somebody above said the game was pushed up but also you can tell by the content so far that the game is being rushed.
lucebuce12
Member
Capcom launch a game before it's complete?
Why I never.
Why I never.
sixteen-bit
Member
Capcom should push this game back. Guarantee this game will be lacking in more ways than just the roster.
SneakersSO
Member
All the modes that they have said are going to be in this game are still there. Ofc there are people going to say its lacking cause buying into a 'rushed' narrative is just en vogue right now. But don't let that stop ya from just shitting on it due to its perfectly-fine roster.
Shadoken
Member
USF4? Sold more than SFV i think.
That's a good one.
So which games has he worked on. Somebody said MVC:I is his 3rd major title.
Heard any #s on the amount of planned DLC chars for 2018?
SneakersSO
Member
Still being finalized. I'll hear more about it as things become concrete after launch. But the support for this game is being planned for a long term, multi-year style support. And they know full well which fan favorites people want to be added, as well as which newcomers they'd like to see.
Fighting games are now GaaS titles. I know the fanbase doesn't want to accept this, and I do think it'd behoove Capcom to approach cheaper prices of entry for some of these games, but it is what it is.
I make this point in the podcast - the issue with the roster isn't the selection; its the size of the roster. Plenty of these characters, both oldcomers with new moves, as well as newcomers, have the potential to be these obelisks of hype that we typically associate with our 'fan favorites' from years past. If we had this current selection + the characters everyone just wants cause thats who they followed or played in the older titles, no one would bat an eye at the roster.
But Marvel Infinite is by all accounts a new game. The new systems yield no guarantee that our old favorites would either play the same or be as effective as they were in prior entries. In fact, removing assists means the angle of approach on many of our old fan favorites, like Magneto or Zero or Vergil, would need to be replaced with something else in order play like they used to in order to be anywhere near as effective as they were.
I've never shied away from that fact that I like having a new Marvel game that purges a ton of the old top tier in favor of exploring cast members & playstyles that never get their chance in the spotlight because they are completely overshadowed by the dominant meta or old fan favorites from like, almost 20 years ago. And regardless, fan favorites are going to be hitting this game & hard over the course of the next few years, so its not like we aren't getting them back regardless.
This whole "wait for the game when the roster complete" thing only works when your game is NOT a full retail $60 product.
If Marvel Infinite had an alternate F2P model like Killer Instinct then people would be less inclined to complain about it. This is obviously built up as a game for service model just like SFV yet without having an entry point of said games.
I personally do not look forward to paying $60 extra until EVO for 12 new characters. That's ridiculous and there is no alternative to acquiring the new characters on the cheap, the seasons pass is still $30 for 6 characters (and some costumes for characters I definitely will not be playing). People blasted UMVC3 for putting out 12 characters for $40, this is going to be even worse.
As far as the modes go... I'll believe it when I see it. I have no reason to believe that the story mode of this game is going to be anything other than a schlocky 2 hour mess that is going to be far below the quality of Injustice 2 (the new standard). The rest of the modes they hyped up make up the bare essentials that should be in a fighting game. Putting Arcade mode as a god damn bullet point in your PR is not impressing anyone.
In addition, there's no valid excuse for there being a small roster to begin with. What's their excuse for not putting in Dormammu, She Hulk, Ghost Rider, Iron Fist, MODOK from the Marvel side? It's a copy/paste job, go all the way on it and not have us charge DLC for god damn copy/paste characters.
If Marvel Infinite had an alternate F2P model like Killer Instinct then people would be less inclined to complain about it. This is obviously built up as a game for service model just like SFV yet without having an entry point of said games.
I personally do not look forward to paying $60 extra until EVO for 12 new characters. That's ridiculous and there is no alternative to acquiring the new characters on the cheap, the seasons pass is still $30 for 6 characters (and some costumes for characters I definitely will not be playing). People blasted UMVC3 for putting out 12 characters for $40, this is going to be even worse.
As far as the modes go... I'll believe it when I see it. I have no reason to believe that the story mode of this game is going to be anything other than a schlocky 2 hour mess that is going to be far below the quality of Injustice 2 (the new standard). The rest of the modes they hyped up make up the bare essentials that should be in a fighting game. Putting Arcade mode as a god damn bullet point in your PR is not impressing anyone.
Issue with the roster is BOTH small size and the selection plus representation. There's absolutely no reason why they should have had 2 GnG representatives in there for example, that's a no brainer when it comes to putting out a small roster.
In addition, there's no valid excuse for there being a small roster to begin with. What's their excuse for not putting in Dormammu, She Hulk, Ghost Rider, Iron Fist, MODOK from the Marvel side? It's a copy/paste job, go all the way on it and not have us charge DLC for god damn copy/paste characters.
Shadoken
Member
I think he worked on USF4, SFV and now MvCI. I believe he was associate producer or something for the first two? Not entirely sure.
Doctrine Dark
Member
Sneakers, do you really think Capcom releasing the game with those characters is a good idea?
Marvel is obviously going to push the MCU, but why is Capcom only repping 1 new IP in this game?
This is the most uninspired roster ever. The amount of negative feedback they're receiving right now is not surprising.
Marvel is obviously going to push the MCU, but why is Capcom only repping 1 new IP in this game?
This is the most uninspired roster ever. The amount of negative feedback they're receiving right now is not surprising.
Even if it's not technically rushed, releasing with that number and breakdown of returning characters, and then 6 all new characters in the three months following definitely feels like the base product was intentionally shorted and affects the value perception.
I do agree the roster is "fine". That would be the best word to describe it, imo. It's just fine. That's it really. I think there's a lot of over-exaggeration and avoiding any disappointment is going to be near impossible in this situation given the way way the super hero genre has blown up since the last game. There are just too many characters and too few slots to blow people away. However, releasing with the 6 new characters in the base game could have made it feel closer to "great."
Another point of disappointment with Marvel Infinite is how much of a step down it is roster wise from Marvel 3.
Marvel 3 launched with 38 characters, built from scratch. Marvel Infinite is using mostly reused characters from Marvel 3 and is still launching with 10 less characters. When it boils down to it... that is the main gut puncher.
Marvel 3 launched with 38 characters, built from scratch. Marvel Infinite is using mostly reused characters from Marvel 3 and is still launching with 10 less characters. When it boils down to it... that is the main gut puncher.
SneakersSO
Member
The thing to understand about the Capcom side is they choose to go with more favorites that are more well known by a wider audience. Like, I know a lot of people want a BoF rep, but we haven't gotten a new mainstream console BoF game in ~15 years. Clover studios (RIP) and their output hasn't been relevant to Capcom & the larger gaming audience for just as much as time as well. And 5-6 years ago, we all sat here & poured one out for the supposed shunning/death of one of Capcom's biggest mascots due to him not making the cut in MvC3 or UMvC3 (MegaMan), and now we have X being repped on day 1.
Monster Hunter, Dead Rising, & even Ghosts & Goblins have all been franchises that has gotten some form of play in various WW markets in some form or another in the last 5 years, and are going to be engaged further in their portfolio in the not-so-distant future.
Do I think this is roster is a good idea for day 1? It's fine. Not the best, but certainly not the worst, and not nearly as bad as everyone on here is making it out to be. If they had more characters for launch, it'd be a moot point entirely, especially when what people are actually complaining about is their fan favorite(s) not making the cut.
Absolutely agreed that if DLC1 were rolled into the launch roster or handing out those character post-launch for free would rectify a lot of this, but once again, we both know that the chief complaint here isn't lack of new characters; the biggest complaint is the lack of fan favorites not making the cut. The likes of Vergil, Wesker, or Doom, Skrull, or whatever aren't making it into DLC1 regardless, so you know the people complaining about these big, obvious omissions aren't going to quiet down.
However, I am very hopeful that the new characters & new character kits for the returning cast will wind up being super-hype, especially when we see how crazy competitive matches will be getting.
Here is a big misconception that needs to be cleared up - Marvel 3 was not 'built from scratch'. So many of the aspects that compose each kit came from earlier entries in the series. Sure, they were 2D, but they didn't build a ton of kits from scratch - characters were just being interpreted from earlier iterations. The same thing is happening here - its just more apparent because we had a 3D game that interpreted each of those kits & normals from already.
Eh, mobile i guess rofl
Shadoken
Member
If they used the money they spent that shitty story mode money on some more characters , maybe we could have got a roster size similar to MvC3.
But hey then you would have poor review scores and sales because apparently that shit is important in FGs nowadays.
Isnt there some Chinese/Korean mmo or something? Maybe it does really well in that region.
But hey then you would have poor review scores and sales because apparently that shit is important in FGs nowadays.
Isnt there some Chinese/Korean mmo or something? Maybe it does really well in that region.
Jedah is one of only three Capcom newcomers, hailing from a series that hasn't had a new installment in 20 years. There's no point in trying to make sense of Capcom's choices.
Doctrine Dark
Member
If that's the case, Sneakers, why is DMC only getting 1 rep this time around? GnG is a classic franchise, but 2 reps in a small roster is too much. Nemesis making it over countless other RE reps (including RE's #1 villain) is also strange. Mike Evans said the characters were chosen because of the interest in their fighting style, as well as their story viability. He says this more than once.
Like, I get the whole idea that DLC will eventually fill in the void, but doesn't making a first impression matter here? Capcom intends to sell 2 million copies of this game by a certain point. If this game gets enough bad word of mouth, how is this going to play out any differently than SFV?
Like, I get the whole idea that DLC will eventually fill in the void, but doesn't making a first impression matter here? Capcom intends to sell 2 million copies of this game by a certain point. If this game gets enough bad word of mouth, how is this going to play out any differently than SFV?
So basically on the same tier as Breath of Fire then and lower than Sengoku Basara and Phoenix Wright.
Also lower than Dragon's Dogma, a game that Capcom is actually somewhat pushing visibly worldwide.
SneakersSO
Member
I mean, there are some very obvious reasons (to me anyway, but some of ya'll on this board have short attention spans when it comes to leaks anyway, so this choice in particular is going to make infinitely more sense in a year or so). That being said, there have been several mobile efforts for GnG that has done well in international markets.
Suffice it to say, with the exception of Darkstalkers characters (and even then, who knows), if Capcom is putting these characters in the game, they have plans for them in the not so distant future.
What Mike Evans said still holds true - Nemesis is more unique in terms of gameplay style than say Wesker. And Nemesis is still popular, and one of the premiere faces villains for the series. Sure, Dante & Vergil have a lot of unique parts about their kit, but they also share quite a bit of overlap as well. The 2 GnG entrants have very unique character kits & that series is getting pushed by Capcom.
I kinda go over a lot of this in that VA podcast though lol. I should just save it for that.
Shadoken
Member
He does have a point tho , apart from Darkstalkers. Which pretty much live on only in VS games now. Al the other IPs are very active.
In fact the last Capcom character is most assuredly Frank West or PW.
MvC3 saw such a huge surge in new characters, because Capcom had made so many new famous IPs between MvC2 and MvC3. But in MvC I , its still just the same franchises that are active as during MvC3 time.
Only MH is something that became bigger in the west recently. Asura's Wrath is a dead IP, maybe a Dragons Dogma rep ( but even this IP is only semi-active in the west , unless they wanna bring DD Online)
I'll give you DD. But just like MH , theyd have to make some generic "Arisen" character.
PW is surprising indeed , the last char might be him or Frank West. Also GnG does have some OG status here in the west too. Unlike Sengoku which is completely JApan only.
I highly doubt a new Bionic Commando is in the pipeline.
Please tell me Spencer wasn't just someone Combofiend personally wanted then. I need a new Bionic Commando in my life!
Or a game featuring Nemesis. Hell, with this logic they should be using current Chris.
Come on son, dude needs to stop fronting like he's an insider.
GARGOYLE'S QUEST 3 AND/OR DEMON'S CREST 2 CONFIRMED!
Or, yeah, that Knights of Aegis game being a new GnG. But I'd prefer NEW GARGOYLE'S QUEST!
New GnG, Darkstalkers, Strider and Bionic Commando games incoming then.
Even IF there was a new GnG game coming, I would not have put 2 GnG characters in there.
Shadoken
Member
I agree 2 GnG is definitely excessive for such a small franchise. Should have thrown in PW instead. But that character is popular enough to get DLC money so Capcom gonna Capcpcom.
Only franchises that would deserve two spots in base should be the big ones like SF,RE,DMC,Megaman. Instead its SF,RE and GnG? WTF.
Only franchises that would deserve two spots in base should be the big ones like SF,RE,DMC,Megaman. Instead its SF,RE and GnG? WTF.
Yeah, I think that's where the "no one is going to pay 5 bux for Firebrand" logic comes in, unfortunately.
Maybe once they knew the roster size they were going to have at launch, and since they were using mvc3 characters as a base, they brought over characters that offered more of a mix in play styles?
I don't know, I'm still not bothered by the roster. E3 gameplay vids/hands on reports will bring people around again. (Assuming it's good, of course.)
I don't know, I'm still not bothered by the roster. E3 gameplay vids/hands on reports will bring people around again. (Assuming it's good, of course.)
Shadoken
Member
ApologyMan is an insider confirmed.
But yea they clearly know Vergil , Zero , Wesker can sell as DLC easily. Heck they are probably going to headline Season pass just like in SFV , by keeping fan favs/Mainstream popular ones as Hostage. (Akuma,Sagat..etc)
SneakersSO
Member
Except current Chris doesn't have anything to really create a new character kit from? What would his super be - he comes up & picks you up off the floor? Repels down from a helicopter as his tag-in? RE5 Chris has been built up over the course of almost 10 years, and is being featured in a new animated RE movie launching this year.
Nemesis also has a unique playkit (something that they actively wanted in this game & said so), so why shouldn't he be in this game?
Maybe they should have a bigger roster to include him and other fan favorites at the same time!
Nemesis is the only big body? Obviously they want a big grapple character, but he's not the only one they could use.
SneakersSO
Member
Hey, Spencer wound up being a very hype character in MvC3, and the Switch is a big thing nowadays - if there is any time for a franchise revival of Bionic Commando on any platform, now & Switch is the time.
I mean, Thanos could easily wind up being another big body. Same thing for Rocket/Groot.
As long as the gameplay is solid and the content is good, then I think the roster is fine. Sure, the lack of new characters is my biggest disappointment but I'd really like to avoid another MvC3 where we have a good roster with next to no content and horrible online.
Let's see how things turn out.
Let's see how things turn out.
Shadoken
Member
I think Haggar might come sometime next year when the FF chars like Cody and Guy come to SFV too. Its going to be 30th anniv of Final Fight so maybe they will tie it to that.
We need to convince them to "please understand".
What I don't get is that they must know they're taking big risks while rushing things out or using exploitative DLC models. It's like "get rich quick" schemes, they almost never work, but the odd time they do will make people focus their efforts on them rather than a more likely path to success with a smaller, almost guaranteed reward.
SneakersSO
Member
I'm not saying they were exclusively trying to push new shit. RE5 Chris is in a new movie; 'Not a Hero' Chris hasn't starred in a game yet - he's not even a fleshed out character yet. What if 'Not a hero' Chris winds up being his alt-skin?
What they were trying to push were unique & varied character kits/gameplay styles, and they went with a combination of fan fulfillment (hence guys like X, Sigma) as well as popular oldcomers from the series past. And again, plenty of room for DLC to bring back fan favorites in the future.
Couldn't agree more. Leon in the base roster and then Chris as DLC would have been correct.Chris was defo just coz of asset reuse. They should have put Leon instead
Capcom especially after the shit they've pulled in the past. People still haven't let them live that one down. Selling new characters and characters people want as DLC is going to backfire on them so hard.
As much as I liked Nemmy in 3 I would take Haggar over him, then sub in Wesker or hell even Jake for the second RE rep.
I'm curious as to if we get a Dead Rising character again this time. Watch it be DR4 Frank though if we do get one. That would be terrible and I don't even hate DR4 Frank.
I'm curious as to if we get a Dead Rising character again this time. Watch it be DR4 Frank though if we do get one. That would be terrible and I don't even hate DR4 Frank.
SneakersSO
Member
Chris was defo just coz of asset reuse. They should have put Leon instead
I talked this character specifically yesterday - what would Leon bring that is wholly different from Chris in terms of a kit, that would warrant him being in & Chris not being in? In the world of RE, he's another 'human' character who relies on guns/knives/traps - they'd just be making another Chris.
SneakersSO
Member
And yet, the largest complaint about this game's roster is that there aren't enough returning characters, not that there aren't enough new characters.