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Mask Efficacy |OT| Wuhan!! Got You All In Check
- Thread starter keraj37
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Birgitte2004-2
Banned
This is not the battle we are faced with today.
Today's battles is between "COVID response needs to not cause more deaths and economic disaster than COVID would" vs. "Screw that, better 1 million people commit suicide and bankrupt the entire world than 1 more person die from COVID".
cryptoadam
Banned
thats the switch. Somehow it was decided that we have to eradicate this virus, old fashion style, like in biblical times with lepers. Not sure when anyone signed up for that, since the original deal was to "flatten" the curve like you said. It won't ever be erradicated until herd immunity is reached world wide. Even the great China is having cases again and looking at lock downs. So unless you are some island that blocks off all international travel the virus will be here and we will have to live with it.
Joe T.
Member
The underlined is key. You're telling me to do what I want for the entire world: personal responsibility. Let's get back to normal and take responsibility for our own lives, keep our deceptive governments out of this.
Anyone that wants to make a comparison to Idiocracy should consider how easily the masses have fallen for lie after lie after ridiculous lie these last few years. Many of our governments are deceiving us daily in order to keep this pandemic alive (ironic...). I don't care for injecting politics into this, but the message in the clip below can be applied universally and is as relevant as ever today:
Airbus Jr
Banned
The underlined is key. You're telling me to do what I want for the entire world: personal responsibility. Let's get back to normal and take responsibility for our own lives, keep our deceptive governments out of this.
Anyone that wants to make a comparison to Idiocracy should consider how easily the masses have fallen for lie after lie after ridiculous lie these last few years. Many of our governments are deceiving us daily in order to keep this pandemic alive (ironic...). I don't care for injecting politics into this, but the message in the clip below can be applied universally and is as relevant as ever today:
Joe T.
Member
Much of the data that runs counter to the mainstream narrative is publicly available, you're simply not getting the full/balanced story from the mainstream media or most governments. That's not conspiracy theory, that's the cold, hard truth. If you can't accept that it's not my problem.
The mainstream sources occasionally reveal those hard truths and then bury them with the usual sensationalized reporting, that CTV News story I highlighted from last weekend being a prime example.
Airbus Jr
Banned
-Minsc-
Member
There are many battles being faced today. The one you mention is one you focus on. I pointed out a different one.
In some circles it definitely is about preventing all cases. I would expect especially so in the science community. Obviously not the entire science community because there would be people making the above suicide argument.
As for the economy tanking. All I can say is the entrepreneurs will find a way to keep moving forward while others complain about how oppressed they are.
Euclid's Bendy Water
Banned
Here's my simple formula for working out whether there could be such a thing as 'conspiracies'
Are people capable of lying = yes
Are people who want power or are in power capable of lying = 10000000% yes
Infact if you choose to vote in a democracy...if your side loses ,the other side are conspiring against you by default as the reason you voted for one party is cause you didn't like what the other had to offer you.
It was the CIA which invented the term 'conspiracy theorist' in the late 60's to quell the dissenting voices who were sceptical of the offical narrative about JFK. It came out in a transcript from a court case in the early 70's.
www.zerohedge.com
I think many people baulk at going near conspiracys as they are fearful of what they might find and might have to get of there asses and do something about it...much more convienent and less stressful to bury there heads in the sand and label others crazy for bringing it to there attention.
The world is run by criminals people...deal with it... and we could if we all put down the petty differences these scumbags create so they can divide and rule us.
Are people capable of lying = yes
Are people who want power or are in power capable of lying = 10000000% yes
Infact if you choose to vote in a democracy...if your side loses ,the other side are conspiring against you by default as the reason you voted for one party is cause you didn't like what the other had to offer you.
It was the CIA which invented the term 'conspiracy theorist' in the late 60's to quell the dissenting voices who were sceptical of the offical narrative about JFK. It came out in a transcript from a court case in the early 70's.
ZeroHedge
ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
www.zerohedge.com
I think many people baulk at going near conspiracys as they are fearful of what they might find and might have to get of there asses and do something about it...much more convienent and less stressful to bury there heads in the sand and label others crazy for bringing it to there attention.
The world is run by criminals people...deal with it... and we could if we all put down the petty differences these scumbags create so they can divide and rule us.
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MisterFalcon
Member
Those million suicides pale compared to the billion who died from corona.
(making up numbers is fun)
(making up numbers is fun)
Joe T.
Member
"Covid zero" is a respectable scientific ambition, same as eliminating AIDs, but it is not by any stretch of the imagination a rational approach to governance. That is the scientific community's battle, not the world's. Upending life for months/years every time a new strain of the flu or some other communicable disease pops up does not make any sense.
The goal was to prevent hospitals from being overrun - that's it, that's all. We largely avoided that despite our best efforts to crash the system with 24/7 panic porn that succeeded in convincing everyone this needed to be treated with unprecedented measures.
Remove the ridiculous news coverage from the equation such as the collapsing people in China's streets, the high mortality rate out of Wuhan, the fake stories about how it kills healthy children, teenagers and twenty/thirty-somethings just as easily as anyone else, the highly contagious asymptomatic spreaders, etc, etc and this would not have been viewed as anything more than a bad flu, similar to what Australia experienced in 2019. No masks, no social distancing, no lock downs - none of it, just common sense measures like staying home when sick and covering up your cough. Sweden came closest to taking that path without imposing draconian measures.
We've learned too much since the start of the year, if opinions haven't changed then something is wrong. Like almost everyone else I played it safe early on, but if you still think this virus is deserving of the measures imposed on us chances are high that you're missing out on a great deal of valuable information.
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Birgitte2004-2
Banned
Wow, someone pro-COVID who doesn't understand sarcasm. Who woulda thunk it?
ManaByte
Banned
CDC may recommend shortening COVID quarantine to 7-10 days: report
The Centers for Disease Control is planning to change COVID-19 quarantine recommendations, and will ask people to isolate themselves for between seven and 10 days instead of 14, according to a repo…
www.nydailynews.com
cryptoadam
Banned
So if all the data is correct than how does the Canadian government explain itself?
CTV is not some right wing source, its not RebelNews. Its mainstream liberal parroting Canadian bacon news. They say 98.4% of deaths are either LTC patients or workers.
Death by age 92% of deaths people over 60.
So basically the entire pandemic is based on people dealing with old people every day, or old people. Were talking a few hundred deaths in the general population and around 1000 in non seniors. I don't even know if that qualifies as a bad flu season for a country with 35 million people.
Maybe other countries are different, but thats what the data says about Canada. Yet we are racking up a huge debt and Trudeau keeps talking about a Great Reset and their are red zones all over the place.
Please tell me how this is justified?
I
CTV is not some right wing source, its not RebelNews. Its mainstream liberal parroting Canadian bacon news. They say 98.4% of deaths are either LTC patients or workers.
Death by age 92% of deaths people over 60.
So basically the entire pandemic is based on people dealing with old people every day, or old people. Were talking a few hundred deaths in the general population and around 1000 in non seniors. I don't even know if that qualifies as a bad flu season for a country with 35 million people.
Maybe other countries are different, but thats what the data says about Canada. Yet we are racking up a huge debt and Trudeau keeps talking about a Great Reset and their are red zones all over the place.
Please tell me how this is justified?
I
prag16
Banned
Connecticut is similar. Almost bang on 92% of deaths are over 60, and 98% over 50. Last I heard over 70% of deaths were in nursing/LTC homes (residents I think, not workers), but that was a report over the summer. The median age of death is above the life expectancy. This shit needs to stop.
DeepBreath87
Banned
I will just say that very anecdotally, where I am in PA, we had pretty much exclusively seen icu patients who were either +65 or already had pretty significant health problems. That was up until about the last two weeks or so. Recently we have been seeing a few really sick people under 60 who aren’t quite as chronically unhealthy.
There has definitely been a big spike in my region. We’ve got about 4x the number of people hospitalized and about 3x the icu patients. Now we’re also the largest hospital in the system, so we’re taking icu level transfers from other smaller regional hospitals.
Being obese is definitely a risk factor for this. Big time. I haven’t seen anyone under 60 who ended up on a vent who wasn’t also obese. Most people are fine after 4-6 days and go home no problem. But it’s pushing the limits right now. If it continues to escalate like it has the past 3 weeks, it will be a serious issue.
cryptoadam
Banned
Albertans going crazy nuts right now. Took a look at their offical website
So under 60 .2% or less chance fo death.
Under 60 >1% go into ICU. Under 50 >2% wind up in hospital.
But AB is going nuts on social media the fear mongering is off the charts.
| Age Group | Cases | Hospitalized | ICU | Deaths | ||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Count | Count | Case rate | Pop. rate | Count | Case rate | Pop. rate | Count | Case rate | Pop. rate | |
| Total | 49536 | 1652 | 3.3 | 37.8 | 298 | 0.6 | 6.8 | 492 | 1.0 | 11.3 |
| Under 1 year | 295 | 8 | 2.7 | 14.8 | 0 | 0.0 | 0.0 | 0 | 0.0 | 0.0 |
| 1-4 years | 1496 | 5 | 0.3 | 2.3 | 1 | 0.1 | 0.5 | 0 | 0.0 | 0.0 |
| 5-9 years | 1995 | 1 | 0.1 | 0.4 | 0 | 0.0 | 0.0 | 0 | 0.0 | 0.0 |
| 10-19 years | 6008 | 26 | 0.4 | 5.0 | 5 | 0.1 | 1.0 | 0 | 0.0 | 0.0 |
| 20-29 years | 9664 | 83 | 0.9 | 13.8 | 12 | 0.1 | 2.0 | 3 | 0.0 | 0.5 |
| 30-39 years | 9616 | 149 | 1.5 | 21.0 | 15 | 0.2 | 2.1 | 4 | 0.0 | 0.6 |
| 40-49 years | 7975 | 162 | 2.0 | 27.2 | 31 | 0.4 | 5.2 | 3 | 0.0 | 0.5 |
| 50-59 years | 5691 | 249 | 4.4 | 45.0 | 53 | 0.9 | 9.6 | 10 | 0.2 | 1.8 |
| 60-69 years | 3460 | 279 | 8.1 | 61.1 | 87 | 2.5 | 19.1 | 46 | 1.3 | 10.1 |
| 70-79 years | 1637 | 346 | 21.1 | 140.7 | 66 | 4.0 | 26.8 | 107 | 6.5 | 43.5 |
| 80+ years | 1692 | 344 | 20.3 | 253.3 | 28 | 1.7 | 20.6 | 319 | 18.9 | 234.9 |
So under 60 .2% or less chance fo death.
Under 60 >1% go into ICU. Under 50 >2% wind up in hospital.
But AB is going nuts on social media the fear mongering is off the charts.
Arrowson
Neo Member
I'm pretty torn on this entire situation. I ended up cancelling my trip back home because I didn't want to fly out and see a bunch of family/friends. Then have myself of one of them get sick. On the flip side it makes me upset when I see the news bashing people for traveling over Thanksgiving. "Why can't American's give up one holiday season?!". Then there are tons of non essential stuff going on like football, Hollywood still making TV shows/movies. If you're not going to criticize those things in the news then you really can't blame the average American who wants to go see their family for a holiday.
Mobile Suit Gooch
Grundle: The Awakening
It's interesting that the girl that liked me at work caught the 'rona but me and the others didn't. She said she didn't have taste in her mouth and such even came to work the next day.
Chittagong
Gold Member
Sweden numbers are nuts
Population Sweden 10M vs UK 68M.
Infections per day Sweden 7K vs UK 11K
Finland vs Sweden daily infections:
Population Sweden 10M vs UK 68M.
Infections per day Sweden 7K vs UK 11K
Finland vs Sweden daily infections:
Euclid's Bendy Water
Banned
Yeah, Finland hardly had a pandemic (and half the population of Sweden).Sweden numbers are nuts
Population Sweden 10M vs UK 68M.
Infections per day Sweden 7K vs UK 11K
Finland vs Sweden daily infections:
The UK comparison is weird though, infections per day right now seems meaningless, it should be presented as a graph over a longer time period and per capita.
Airbus Jr
Banned
New world record over 2100 dead in a single day
Things are projected to get worse
edition.cnn.com
Waiting for our beloved conspiracy theorist Joe T comments
Things are projected to get worse
Thanksgiving coronavirus surge could turn into the Christmas surge, health professor warns | CNN
The United States is living in the most dangerous public health crisis since the 1918 influenza pandemic, and health experts say it doesn’t look like the coronavirus will be slowing down anytime soon with the arrival of the holiday season.
edition.cnn.com
Waiting for our beloved conspiracy theorist Joe T comments
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Cracklox
Member
Regarding Australia, last year had nothing on 2017. I've posted this a few times before but seems like as good a time as any to go again
3303.0 - Causes of Death, Australia, 2017
Meanwhile Covid is up to 907 this year, with a whole 2 in the last month, so unlikely to even get close to 2017s flu. Which has a vaccine...
Slightly unrelated but most states here are working pretty close to normal again (South Autralian lying pizza guy aside), and even where I live in Victoria, who were the 1st in the world to go full draconian with curfews and shit, has eased a few things lately. They even changed the mask mandate to indoor public places only a few days ago. We're still the only state with any sort of mandate though. The last couple of days has been interesting still seeing some people walking their dogs or whatever and still wearing a mask (in 30 degree celcius weather). Tells me who the easily scared are that can't formulate a thought for themselves.
That all said, the media and politicians here sure are talking about fucking 'covid normal' more and more these days. Thats starting to take shape with things like the CEO of our biggest airline coming out and saying once there's a vaccine, they'll implement a 'no jab, no fly' policy...
And I'm sure that'll be just the tip of a whopping great iceberg when it comes to the vaccine and being able to live a normal life without it
prag16
Banned
What I want to see is year over year comparisons of total hospital utilization, and total ICU utilizations. I want to see a fancy line graph. Nationwide, by region, by country, by city, whatever. I know that there was something like this for the UK that showed utilization BELOW the five year average for their most recent spike of COVID activity.
I want to see this for the United States. That's what'll tell us how serious any of this actually is. Not all this other noise and breathless fearmongering.
Joe T.
Member
It is and too few are paying attention to it because they're still hyperventilating over daily case/death numbers that in a lot of places aren't all different from previous years. This simply isn't the virus that was sold to us in Jan-March, not even close. The response did much more harm than the virus itself. The situation here in Montreal would have gone back to normal if mainstream journalists today were still interested in the truth and masks not mandated indoors mid-July.
The same people that pushed this mess on us are pushing a 5% "work-from-home tax," some of it to make up for the money no longer being spent around the city and some of it redistributed to those making less than $30K/year. CTV reported it locally here last week, shortly after Deutsche Bank spoke of it. It's all part of the agenda.
This pandemic is too similar to the WMDs in Iraq story which took advantage of the response to the 9/11 attack and more recently to the Russian collusion story which took full advantage of post-election polarization. When such stories turn out to be false you'd hope lessons are learned and the public to be more skeptical, but rarely is that the case. There've been so many fake and overtly misleading stories pushing this pandemic and few seem to care, they're clinging to the narrative.
Lombardy sees the most annual deaths in Italy (close to double #2 Lazio), for example, and they've been seeing 40% or so of excess deaths not at all linked to covid. The logical explanation is that the panic and government measures are responsible for those deaths, but does anyone care? It's worse when you factor in how liberally the "with/of covid" cause of death is applied.
There are organizations looking into this fraud, but justice moves too slowly to put a stop to most of the changes they want to impose on us. Rocco Galati's case won't see any progress until the end of next month or January, Fuellmich and his team in Germany just filed theirs. Italy's now bringing it to light:
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DeepBreath87
Banned
I know a large hospital in the county over is dealing with a spike that is far less significant than the one at my hospital. I’m sure it’s a very localized thing.
But it’s a real thing at least temporarily. This is really the first significant increase in my area since this all started. My hope is that it will make it’s way through over the next few weeks and things will begin to get back to a more manageable place in time. It’s not a disaster, but it’s putting some stress on things right now.
diffusionx
Gold Member
Nobody has said that hospitals cannot be strained from this. The skepticism comes from:
1. ICUs are not sitting around empty normally, like here in NYC, they are 80% full on a normal day, so these media reports are talking about these occupancy numbers without context.
2. Bad flu seasons can and have filled up hospitals, it happens every few years, with very little reporting and certainly no calls for lockdowns or talk of hospital system collapse.
3. These hospital systems had 8 months to prepare for a second wave they said they knew was coming.
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DeepBreath87
Banned
Oh I agree. I’m not advocating we really do anything about it except acknowledge the reality. Tell people to take their vitamins, lose some weight, stay home when sick. The normal stuff. It does make work pretty stressful, but that’s kind of the of the game anyway.
Chittagong
Gold Member
shitloads of poorly functioning tests with a high rate of false positives?
MisterFalcon
Member
False postives on testing for death ?
Joe T.
Member
At a cursory level it's probably not much different than the way it's happening elsewhere: ridiculously liberal labeling of covid deaths. Officials from around the world are on record clearly admitting it, if I remember correctly Dr. Deborah Birx did it at the White House podium at the national level. I've seen the same from the Quebec government, France and Italy. They're incentivized for it in the US, a reminder from USA Today.
Japan's on the opposite end of extremes because they've done very little testing by comparison, they've only done about 3 million tests or about 0.24 tests per thousand people. The US is at 3.95 per thousand. I can't speak to how they're handling things in hospitals because I haven't examined it personally.
Airbus Jr
Banned
Jesus does everything has to be resolved around politics with you?
Despite numerous reports from our fellow gaf members from several page before getting caught with coronavirus youre still going strong with these conspiracy theory thing? Fake news mm... ? Youre in denial or something buddy?
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Joe T.
Member
Airbus Jr
Banned
No...no..no..
Your previous post says" ridiculously liberal labeling of covid death"
That obviously means something...you have a goalpost and youre deff on to something here..
Your previous post also brought Iraqi WMD into this conversation...which is...weird...youre deff on to something here....
But first let me ask you this...are you Trump supporters ?
Cos i ve encountered lots of Trump supporters on social media that says this virus is fake...fake virus...this virus is a conspiracy....government wants to scare people....wearing mask is useless...wearing mask is a sign of lack of faith to god blablabla....
And im kinda seeing similar patern with you....
Its ok if you want to admit it...
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cryptoadam
Banned
Japans elderly population is like only 5% Vit D deficient.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
You're wrong on this one, man.
DeepBreath87
Banned
You do understand that liberal has a meaning outside of politics, right? Because you seem to be confused so you’re lashing out. No one here is talking about fake viruses or any of the other nonsense you’re discussing here.
There are a few debates about masks and when they are appropriate and what kinds of masks actually work. There are discussions about what sorts of measures are appropriate and what constitutes government overreach or overreaction.
But you clearly didn’t understand the use of “liberal” there.
Airbus Jr
Banned
Look..one of my relatives who work on hospitals died from rona...
His wife latter died from rona...and his oldest daughter also died latter on...
His neightboor also caught rona...and albeit survives...his breathing is no longer like it used to be...
Meanwhile this Joe guy here keep telling everyone that this Rona is a nothing burger...
And constantly asking us to lower our awareness......by spreading ridiculous fearmongering goverment agenda conspiracy...which could be misleading and dangerous to our readers around here...
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cryptoadam
Banned
As a Canadian something needs to be explained
According to our "Liberal" press, 98% deaths are related to LTCs.
According to official data 96% of deaths are over 60 years of age.
So are all these Trump supporters in Canada going into LTCs and hacking all over these old people and workers there killing them?
If 96% of deaths are above 60 and 98% coming from nursing homes, why are young healthy Canadians being locked down? I crunched the numbers comparing COVID with Influenze 2018, and under 60 there were more Influenza deaths, 60-70 was even, and 70+ COVID is killing way more, especially at 80.
So with this information, almost all deaths are localized to one area, and deaths are pretty much old people and people who work with old people, how is our government so retarted in handling this pandemic? This is essentially a bad flu season unless you are 70 years old or work in a nursing home.
Does this make sense for us Canadians to ruin our economy, education of our young, set us up for ungodly taxes, more GST, PST, and Trudeau un democratically talking about abusing the fake crisis to RESET Canada. Something no one voted or agreed to.
Maybe in the US shit is different I guess. But this is whats happening in Canada.
Airbus Jr
Banned
If youre still thinking this thing only kills old people then sorry youre abit late with the news
And youre comparing this with flu? Ffs man
Do you realize how many drugs have to be adminstered into your body to combat covid 19?
What's New | COVID-19 Treatment Guidelines
Read this summary to learn about the key changes and additions to the guidelines, including the latest recommendations on managing COVID-19.
www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov
Yea just a flu bro
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pr0cs
Member
Wow, this is news to me, can you link to an article showing that covid kills young people at the same rate as old people?
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