HadesGigas
Member
I'm not sure science can every truly hope to explain half organic/half synthetic baseball hats.
Mass Effect 3 Spoiler Thread |OT2| Taste the Rainbow
- Thread starter Patryn
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I'm not sure science can every truly hope to explain half organic/half synthetic baseball hats.
dilatedmuscle
Member
If they had a typical ending, nobody would be talking about it. It wouldnt be on Forbes, there would be world wide speculation and debate. The ending debacle has caused more speculation and conversation than the game itself.
Maybe im crazy but, to me, IT makes perfect sense, everything else is a plot-hole filled mess. Im just going to sit and wait patiently. Id rather be blissfully ignorant by believing the IT and have some reason to the madness OR be bitter, unsatisfied and accept the terrible nonsensical ending thus leaving the series with a bitter taste in my mouth. But that's just me, we all have different perspectives as well as different subjective opinions on art.
Don't forget that they have Tim Cain now, who isn't just a programmer but also a project lead. Chris Jones is still around too, though I don't know how involved he is these days in the actual game-making process.
heliosRAzi
Banned
I'm sure Bioware didn't want this kind of attention. And most of the speculation has to do with how incompetent were the writers
This is not good PR. This is not "good speculation" of players who want more of what you offer. This is a case of a playerbase disappointed by a game and voicing their opinion.
This is not the buzz you want right after you release your game. You want people sharing the good moments not saying that "the ending is a disgrace to the entire franchise". You don't want them raising money for charity to show how much they care about the ending issue.
This is baggage that Bioware will carry till they meet the fans demands or just say "Fuck it. Deal with it".
Anyway, we can all have diverging opinions on what art is but it doesn't change the fact that the indoctrination theory is born out of the despair of fans. Nothing more.
Also, on the subject of religious overtones....
I think that Shepherd WAS the catalyst. His name and his role both suggest a Shepherd tending to his flock of sheep: i.e. Space Jesus. His sacrifice for the galaxy's "sins" is what allowed us to break the cycle and achieve everlasting life in the sense that organics won't be wiped out every 50k years like a biblical flood.
There are some pretty strong parallels to religion there.
I think that Shepherd WAS the catalyst. His name and his role both suggest a Shepherd tending to his flock of sheep: i.e. Space Jesus. His sacrifice for the galaxy's "sins" is what allowed us to break the cycle and achieve everlasting life in the sense that organics won't be wiped out every 50k years like a biblical flood.
There are some pretty strong parallels to religion there.
Empty Space
Member
I posted about this earlier. The Catalyst probably is a god. The amount energy to change the molecular composition of everything in the galaxy would be immense it doesn't matter how far in the future it is. It would also require an understanding of how every single thing in the galaxy was composed. I find it very unlikely that the Reapers somehow stored this data or even bothered to look into it. I don't care how far in the future the technology comes from it's probably impossible to do.
I think the idea is that both organics and synthetics are of the same mold. There is biological/synthetic programming on one hand, but free will on the other. We have our DNA programming and organic brains, while synthetics have their algorithms and silicon. Not so different.
It's Clarke's third law taken to an extreme.
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
Holy shit, if I'm thinking part you're thinking of, you can do both? Mind blown, I've never invested a lot in the tech tree.
How does one explain the sudden galaxy-wide transformation of every living thing including plants into cybernetic organisms complete with flashing circuitry? That's something so far beyond the ME universe's 'believability' scale that it should have been explained in some fashion.
Eh, people would have been talking about the ending to a player-choice-agency driven trilogy like ME3's no matter what. I agree that Bioware had to go above and beyond what was expected in some shape or form, but instead, they take a sudden abrupt turn into WTF's parking lot.
I also agree that IT solves a lot of the problems, but to me, that can't be used as the springboard for an argument, especially given the details we are given regarding re-writing the ending due to the script leak, only Walters and Hudson working on it, etc.
Nanomachines, man. Nanomachines. Nanomachines the size of an atom. Think about it.
BannedEpisode
Member
LightofRohan
Member
If they do make some Ending DLC/fixes. How do they expect us to see it? We are going to have to beat it again from the Cerberus base part aren't we? I wouldnt mind. But it might suck for some.
Not really in practice. Our brains ARE organic computers, complete with clock speeds and finite storage. Different, but not entirely dissimilar.
The whole idea behind creating an AI requires that this be true.
HadesGigas
Member
I don't think baseball hats usually have free will.
WrenchNinja
Member
I wonder if burning a cyborg hat is murder.
BannedEpisode
Member
I edited my post because I'm one class off from finishing up.
In any case, I'm not even trying to sound like a know it all or smartass. Saying a computer and any organism are compatibly similar is silly. The mechanics of it all are apples and oranges.
Philosophically maybe.
LightofRohan
Member
Lol. Even after all this time, it still sucks, doesn't it?
I don't know; I've read that comparison too many times. Sure, some of it is philosophical in nature, but I don't think making that comparison is ridiculous. I mean, you have the natural science qualifications, but what about from the engineering and cognitive science end? The statement is reductionist, but not wrong. Just my opinion as a non-expert.
BannedEpisode
Member
Not to mention ethically unsound.
Yeah, I wont even attempt to think about he implications of rewriting life itself. The most amazing thing is that they show Joker and EDI with circuits graphed on their skins.
Also electrical trees.
Seriously, I cant even think about it without laughing.
Empty Space
Member
Which is where the problem comes in say what you will about biotics and its similarity to the force, but everything until synthesis had some kind of explanation on how it worked. You go through all this effort to make something believable and then you throw it out in the last few minutes for what? Artistry? Speculation? That's disservice to all the work that came before.
While this is true and the day we understand how the human brain actually functions will probably be they day we are able to create true AI. Human tissue is so damn different from silicon it boggles the mind sometimes that both these things somehow manage to exist in the same place. Getting the two to interact in the way implied by synthesis is ridiculous. People who get transplants need to not only have the same blood type as the donor, but are forced to take medication for the rest of their lives to not reject the organ. The idea that some computer has the information for every single organic thing to do this when its whole plan was to destroy them is absurd.
Shh, don't piss off Dechaios
It is not a thing you can comprehend. I wish this was the OT subtitle.
2 d33p 4 u
The husks are a synthesis of organics and synthetics where organic fluids are replaced by cybernetics. Shepherd himself was reborn as a synthetic...it was never really clarified whether he remained his organic self (remember that he was brain dead) beyond flesh and blood. We just know that he was his own self where it mattered: memories, motivations, emotions.
The synthesis wasn't exactly without precedence in the storyline.
The synthesis wasn't exactly without precedence in the storyline.
heliosRAzi
Banned
Or RDreamer
Maybe when EatChildren strolls by again, we can ask
But it wasn't the main theme or at the forefront of everything even. In ME2, no one really cares if Shep is synthetic or not and they really don' t care that she died.
Isn't that supposed to be the "best" ending?
dilatedmuscle
Member
A god-like being?
"viewing the reaper itself with superstitious awe" Is listed as a symptom of indoctrination previous to in a codex in previous games.
... just sayin'.
Shepard definitely does not in the one dialogue option you get in the kid conversation in-game, so that's out the window. Why does real-life opinion somehow confirm a supposedly entirely contained theory?
Is that a trick question?
heliosRAzi
Banned
Because indoctrination
no.
I know every ending is the same, but isn't that what they were calling the best ending? Or is the "best" ending Shepard breathing when you choose destroy?
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
Theoretically destroy with shep alive breathing at the end is the "best".
Though that requires multiplayer to get to that high of an EMS.
Did Bioware lie pre-release about that? Who knows, since the "best ending" is subjective.
Yeah, it's mentioned jokingly like twice in ME2 and ME 3 and once seriously in ME3 when in the IM's base. Hardly the main theme.
...Although the implications of controlling Shepard directly through the cyborg upgrades hasn't been brought up yet, or what technology Miranda used to resurrect Shep, especially since the scientist in ME3 says reviving Shep is impossible.
/IT theory
Was being facetious. Yeah, it's the "best" as in, it isn't the default choice. Your EMS (or whatever it is) needs to be a certain amount in order to unlock it. Also, congrats on the full member. Step 2) Tag-fishing.
MagicWithEarvin
Member
Just beat the game...
LOL.
I bring Garrus and Tali with me at the final battle, I'm the only one who survives. Final scenes: those two I brought to the final battle who I thought got wiped by the Reaper beam, are now with Joker and the Normandy as they crash-land on another planet? WTF?
And I'm still confused about the stupid Star Child. Is he omni-potent? VI?
LOL.
I bring Garrus and Tali with me at the final battle, I'm the only one who survives. Final scenes: those two I brought to the final battle who I thought got wiped by the Reaper beam, are now with Joker and the Normandy as they crash-land on another planet? WTF?
And I'm still confused about the stupid Star Child. Is he omni-potent? VI?
EmCeeGramr
Member
judging by their twitter, people are all saying "that's not why we dislike the ending," and their response is "yes it is."
I finally beat it. First thought oh it wasn't that bad. I chose destroy. Then I started thinking about it, and I watched some analysis YouTube things.
Fucking dumb. I'm really interested in seeing how they'll fix a huge mistake like this. I won't buy an ending simply on principle. EA better believe that will be a PR shitstorm if the whole indoctrination thing is true.
Also: I finally get the thread title. Lmao. It's perfect. It's not a spoiler, but it is. Hahaha
Fucking dumb. I'm really interested in seeing how they'll fix a huge mistake like this. I won't buy an ending simply on principle. EA better believe that will be a PR shitstorm if the whole indoctrination thing is true.
Also: I finally get the thread title. Lmao. It's perfect. It's not a spoiler, but it is. Hahaha
Empty Space
Member
Husk are just like their name describe empty shells. They are being kept upright and moving by their implant its not true fusion the host dies in the process. The Lazarus project stuff is never really explained well either, but its one thing to have your back reinforced by metal parts and have cells regrown and an entirely different thing to your skin have circuitry run through and have your molecular structure changed. Lazarus was also far smaller scale it was one person and Synthesis was every single thing in the galaxy all at one time.
God I hate arguing about synthesis more then anything else its so out of place and lazy. Everything else I can see as a time constraint or way to force the series the way Bioware wanted, but synthesis is supposed to be art and high level.
Link or screencaps?
dilatedmuscle
Member
hallucinating and imagining the voices in your head to be a god-child who makes you beleive that fusing synthetic and organic life (essentially turning eveyrone into reaper husks etc...) is all of a sudden a good thing isnt superstitious awe? It made most people/shepards believe that This magical action will somehow is the best solution by pandering to our desires and tricking us into following the reapers wants.
heliosRAzi
Banned
If it pandered to our desires, we would have been able to do things to that starchild that would put us in jail.
I'm curious, what do you think it meant?
IT theory? Indoctrination theory theory?
The theory behind indoctrination theory states that confirmation bias is fueled by a lack of belief in space magic.
The last dialogue option you can pick in the entire game is:
You'll never understand.
We don't want to be preserved!
None of those options shows any respect, or supersticious awe, whatsoever for the Catalyst. A point is made out of that all endings are presented to you as equal. Synthesis being the optimal ending is out-of-universe because we know it requires the most EMS to unlock.
I'm curious, what do you think it meant?
IT theory? Indoctrination theory theory?
The color choices.
Nothing more? I just wanted to see it from the perspective of someone who hadn't finished the game.
Is there more to get?
Oh. Well yeah, I didn't really understand what it meant until I saw the ending and just now came back in here for my post and realized the title. Before I had beaten the game I just kinda brushed it off as the titles of many JRPG OTs (for example) that I don't understand.