Massive Gaming YouTube Channels Getting 100s of Flagged Videos Continuously

sykoex said:
Also, how does Game Center CX deal with this? Do they have agreements with game companies?
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They have a very close relationship with developers and publishers (which is why you see Arino often times interviewing them). And with the exception of his live shows they aren't showing the entire game from start to finish. In those cases they probably get away with it easier because he's playing games from the 80's and early 90's, and publishers are probably less sensitive to that than a newly released title.
 
jakonovski said:
Youtube can, that's what their system is doing. Claimants can apparently get all the money, regardless of how much work the Youtuber put in the video. It's actually worse like this than if the videos were just straight up taken down, because this system gives the incentive to not play fair. And guess what, the individual will always lose because Google and the claimants have vastly superior resources.

The rich get richer and the rest of us get jack shit once again.
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Is it just me or does this also seem that if the claimant gets the content providers cut of the ad money but YouTube still gets their 45% so they end up losing zero?
 
SomeOrangeGuy said:
What gets me is that if you have one of these claims, the video is still monetized, and 100% goes to the claimant. If you're dinged for 15 seconds of a 5 minute video, then the supposed content owner is literally stealing money from you since a majority of the work (and the reason it was monetized) wasn't done by them at all. That's... super bad form.

On the other hand, Let's Play videos were always to me (at best) a gray area, since the primary reason someone watches them is to see something in a game without having to play it. A publisher might have a valid position to state that they are losing revenue because the people watching the video might not be buying and playing the game themselves -- if the video did not exist, neither would the alternative to consuming the game itself directly. And maybe the problem isn't even so much that the game footage exists as the fact that someone else is making money off of it; like others have said, the videos aren't coming down, but the advertising revenue is going to the claimant instead.

Yes, the Let's Player put the effort into playing the game and making the commentary (although the latter can be debatable depending on how good the commentary is), but it's a much different beast than writing a review, selecting clips, doing the editing, and putting something else on the screen besides a direct feed of the gameplay for 10 minutes at a time.
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That's certainly not always the case. For example, people don't watch Game Grumps primarily to see levels from old SNES games but because they find the hosts funny. It's the personality of the players that draws views. I imagine that's true of PewDiePie and all popular YouTube let's play channels.

I find it hard to believe that people watch let's plays instead of playing the game themselves. Has anyone on gaf done that?
 
Linkin Park said:
Is Pewdiepie effected? Oh god I hope so.

I'm so glad Ghostrobo got it. I seriously hate that kid. I hate any gaming channel on YouTube that acts like a dick and uses this as a argument "Well that view you just gave me earned me money". He along with most other channels also use thumbnails that are the most likely to get views so they get more money. Way to act like a greedy ass, now it's coming back to bite them. Hell, he's already saying how if he stops making money he'll find other ways to make money like vlogs and donatations. Pathetic, of course he's not exactly saying that but that's definitely what seems like he's implying.

Also, any person that says "Please like & subscribe" pretty much guarantees that I'll dislike their video and stop watching them. If people like your videos then they'll subscribe, begging just makes you look pathertic.

I'm honestly quite happy this happened. I really hate gaming channels and how pathetic they are, "Please like & subscribe, also donate to me pretty please". It just makes my skin crawl, what a way to abuse your fan base and it just goes to show how much the masses are sheep and eat it up.

These people don't care about their fanbase. I honestly feel like if a person like Pewdiepie stopped earning money through these videos he'd stop making them. They only care about money, hence why they beg people to subscribe and donate, and also use rediculous thumbnails to get views and make a ton of money. Like how Pewdiepie plays the same 5 games over and over again while pretending to be scared for the 1000th time, then proceeds to use the most ridiculous thumbnail because he knows people will click on it.

People who actually seriously try to make a living off YouTube by doing let's plays for money probably deserve this anyways. YouTube has become so plagued with 1000s of people trying to get in on the whole "let's play" thing in an attempt to make quick and easy money. How about stop being lazy and try getting a real job? Or something more original than just being the billionth gaming channel. You could argue that game news companies are no different, except they are. Their job is to inform you on games and help make you a decision if a game is worth playing or not while also helping developers sell their games, let's players are only in it for money and take advantage of their viewers by begging, using exaggerated and misleading thumbnails, and purposely acting like you just drank 10 cans of red bull.

These people are still allowed to make these videos, they just wouldn't make any money. But that's obviously not good enough for them as they're greedy and will just resort to begging to their viewers to donate money on their website and that's probably what would happen.

I'm glad this is happening. I'm tired of these million different gaming channels trying to cash in on the success of let's plays, we'll see who the people that are left still making videos without a check and no begging, those will be the ones who truly care about their fans.

/Rant
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So because of a couple of bad people, the whole system is corrupt and should be burned to the ground? Man, if you had your way, every single industry ever created would be in shambles now.

zakislam said:
People say his CPM (how much he makes per 1000 views) is high and must be high as he's the biggest YouTuber of all time. A study estimated his yearly earnings is near the $17 million mark.

There is no way it's as low as $2 million.

Look at his views per day and month:

http://socialblade.com/youtube/user/pewdiepie/monthly
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As somebody who is monetized on Youtube, Socialblade's estimates have always been very generous.

http://socialblade.com/youtube/user/blazehedgehog/monthly

I do not make $400 a month. Boy, do I wish I did.
 
Linkin Park said:
Is Pewdiepie effected? Oh god I hope so.

I'm so glad Ghostrobo got it. I seriously hate that kid. I hate any gaming channel on YouTube that acts like a dick and uses this as a argument "Well that view you just gave me earned me money". He along with most other channels also use thumbnails that are the most likely to get views so they get more money. Way to act like a greedy ass, now it's coming back to bite them.
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You sound as though you have a massive chip on your shoulder. Using thumbnails that are most likely to get views is greedy?! Of course that's what they're going to do. What would you have them do? Use unappealing thumbnails? Throughout your post, your use of the word greedy is bizarre. By your definition anyone who tries to earn money is greedy.
 
Sega1991 said:
As somebody who is monetized on Youtube, Socialblade's estimates have always been very generous.
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VERY generous. That should be obvious though given the huge ballpark range between its estimate figures

Linkin Park said:
Is Pewdiepie effected? Oh god I hope so.

I'm so glad Ghostrobo got it. I seriously hate that kid. I hate any gaming channel on YouTube that acts like a dick and uses this as a argument "Well that view you just gave me earned me money". He along with most other channels also use thumbnails that are the most likely to get views so they get more money. Way to act like a greedy ass, now it's coming back to bite them. Hell, he's already saying how if he stops making money he'll find other ways to make money like vlogs and donatations. Pathetic, of course he's not exactly saying that but that's definitely what seems like he's implying.

Also, any person that says "Please like & subscribe" pretty much guarantees that I'll dislike their video and stop watching them. If people like your videos then they'll subscribe, begging just makes you look pathertic.

I'm honestly quite happy this happened. I really hate gaming channels and how pathetic they are, "Please like & subscribe, also donate to me pretty please". It just makes my skin crawl, what a way to abuse your fan base and it just goes to show how much the masses are sheep and eat it up.

These people don't care about their fanbase. I honestly feel like if a person like Pewdiepie stopped earning money through these videos he'd stop making them. They only care about money, hence why they beg people to subscribe and donate, and also use rediculous thumbnails to get views and make a ton of money. Like how Pewdiepie plays the same 5 games over and over again while pretending to be scared for the 1000th time, then proceeds to use the most ridiculous thumbnail because he knows people will click on it.

People who actually seriously try to make a living off YouTube by doing let's plays for money probably deserve this anyways. YouTube has become so plagued with 1000s of people trying to get in on the whole "let's play" thing in an attempt to make quick and easy money. How about stop being lazy and try getting a real job? Or something more original than just being the billionth gaming channel. You could argue that game news companies are no different, except they are. Their job is to inform you on games and help make you a decision if a game is worth playing or not while also helping developers sell their games, let's players are only in it for money and take advantage of their viewers by begging, using exaggerated and misleading thumbnails, and purposely acting like you just drank 10 cans of red bull.

These people are still allowed to make these videos, they just wouldn't make any money. But that's obviously not good enough for them as they're greedy and will just resort to begging to their viewers to donate money on their website and that's probably what would happen.

I'm glad this is happening. I'm tired of these million different gaming channels trying to cash in on the success of let's plays, we'll see who the people that are left still making videos without a check and no begging, those will be the ones who truly care about their fans.

/Rant
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What an absolute pile of shite of a post. I'm sorry, I don't like saying that usually about people here but this just all reads as misinformation or jealousy. I've never seen a more wrong or spiteful post around here
 
jacksepticeye said:
VERY generous. That should be obvious though given the huge ballpark range between its estimate figures



What an absolute pile of shite of a post. I'm sorry, I don't like saying that usually about people here but this just all reads as misinformation or jealousy. I've never seen a more wrong or spiteful post around here
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Let me ask you this. What other qualifications do you actually have outside of whining about your youtube videos not making any money?
 
I have a 3-minute Castlevania: Symphony of the Night video that is 'blocked in some territories' due to a Content ID match with the game's own soundtrack :(
 
Man..Angry Joe is hit too, his reviews and interviews are RAW to the point (all the time).

[Edit: Beaten by kazebyaka]
 
Sneds said:
That's certainly not always the case. For example, people don't watch Game Grumps primarily to see levels from old SNES games but because they find the hosts funny. It's the personality of the players that draws views. I imagine that's true of PewDiePie and all popular YouTube let's play channels.

I find it hard to believe that people watch let's plays instead of playing the game themselves. Has anyone on gaf done that?
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But Pewdiepie has no personality... Well, it's an asinine one.

I watch let's plays of games I don't have/have already finished.
 
Jeff-DSA said:
He's right, but his anger shouldn't be directed at YouTube but at the copyright holders who are overstepping bounds.
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Many of them have no idea what is going on and are telling people to contest these claims so that they can be dismissed ASAP:

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/bl...ike-in-youtube-copyright-claims/1100-6416659/

Basically these guys are probably annoyed as hell by what Youtube is doing. It seems the only company that's aggressively pushing for the LP crackdown is Nintendo.
 
scytheavatar said:
Many of them have no idea what is going on and are telling people to contest these claims so that they can be dismissed ASAP:

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/bl...ike-in-youtube-copyright-claims/1100-6416659/

Basically these guys are probably annoyed as hell by what Youtube is doing. It seems the only company that's aggressively pushing for the LP crackdown is Nintendo.
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"As ever, channel owners can easily dispute Content ID claims if they believe those claims are invalid."
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That's funny because it's also ignoring the big scary "HEY IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING THIS WILL RESULT IN A COURT CASE AND YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR OWN LEGAL FEES" warning when you do this.

I imagine if you dispute enough of these you'll eventually hit one that could get you in even deeper shit. It also destroys revenue from the first rush of viewers to a given video, which are the core of why anyone would monetize their videos to begin with.
 
Sneds said:
That's certainly not always the case. For example, people don't watch Game Grumps primarily to see levels from old SNES games but because they find the hosts funny. It's the personality of the players that draws views. I imagine that's true of PewDiePie and all popular YouTube let's play channels.

I find it hard to believe that people watch let's plays instead of playing the game themselves. Has anyone on gaf done that?
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Absolutely. I have done that for many games, especially ones where they are not available on a platform I own. The person playing and talking is inconsequential.
 
PotionBleue said:
I doubt you can claim exclusive rights on something if in first place it infringes someone else's copyright
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But I don't see how companies earning money from this is actually legal. It's propably more of a case of authors never bothering to go to court over this.
 
I'm only now jsut catching up on this tbh, but how is any of this legal?

I don't understand how Youtube can say these are legit claims either when the OP is detailing claims made by completely random companies like HearstMagazine, or companies that the publisher doesn't even know!
 
AHA-Lambda said:
I'm only now jsut catching up on this tbh, but how is any of this legal?

I don't understand how Youtube can say these are legit claims either when the OP is detailing claims made by completely random companies like HearstMagazine, or companies that the publisher doesn't even know!
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It is legal in some regards.

What a lot of people don't realize, and I don't think the developers even entirely realize, is that when they produce, say, a soundtrack to their game, and that soundtrack ends up being sold somewhere... that requires a publisher. And usually, a different publisher from the game.

So when you get a company like "Merlin" and "Phonofile" claiming copyright on music being used, well...

http://www.merlinnetwork.org/home/

Merlin is a global rights agency representing the world's most important set of independent music rights.
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http://www.phonofile.com/?page_id=2

Phonofile is the largest aggregator for indie music in the Nordic region, and one of the most experienced players in the digital music marketplace today. Even though Phonofile has its strongest foothold in the Nordic region, we work with labels and services from all over the world.
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Just because it doesn't look legal at a glance does not mean it isn't. It's a bit silly that gameplay is tripping copyright information on the background music, but it also makes a whole lot of sense, too. Especially given how the tech on Youtube's end is so hamhanded about it.

Which is also why some wires are getting crossed. Yes, it's saying some people own the rights that do not, but that's because of filing errors years ago. Public domain content is a big headache on Youtube because of this stuff; all it takes is one news organization to accidentally claim a piece of public domain media and suddenly nobody can use it until it's PROVEN to be public domain, which can be a lot harder than it sounds.

Try looking up the original Night of the Living Dead on Youtube. That movie is technically public domain, but most of the uploads from users posting it eventually get takedown notices because of DVD distribution and stuff. A lot of companies think they own the rights to Night of the Living Dead, when that is actually impossible. When I checked a couple months ago for Halloween, there were even some Youtube channels trying to sell rentals for the movie (thankfully they don't seem to be coming up anymore.)

These things happen. No, they aren't especially legal, but you spend enough time as a content creator on Youtube and you eventually discover Youtube isn't actually concerned with what is legal, they're concerned with covering their own asses and avoiding long, drawn out battles - even if that means not following the letter of the law.

The trick is knowing enough of your stuff so you can fight back without getting yourself in to trouble, and there are very, very few people who can do that.
 
Sega1991 said:
As somebody who is monetized on Youtube, Socialblade's estimates have always been very generous.

http://socialblade.com/youtube/user/blazehedgehog/monthly

I do not make $400 a month. Boy, do I wish I did.
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The bottom line is your yearly projection

Just looked at my 2 channels

"$19 - $231" (made about $23 in November, and that was my best month this year)
"$14 - $171" (made about $44 in November, and I haven't added any new vids since September, not even my best month ever cracked $100)
 
Part of the problem is YouTube has become so unbelievably big and is trying to cover their asses with robots.

What is confusing to me is how pubs that don't want to participate are having "claims" made for them. Didn't they have to submit references for this to happen or how else would Google know what belongs to who?
 
So, what is so hard about jumping to another site?
Sure, they'll suffer a drop in viewers due to the convenience of Youtube, but what alternative do they have right now? It seems like people are complaining and complaining without actually trying to find a solution to it.

Upload a teaser on Youtube, and direct them to that site to watch the full thing, just like how AVGN used to do it.

Or like others have suggested, upload a monetized commentary track with no trace of the visual and audio assets from the game, then upload the game's footage later. It sounds bannable to me since you're trying to circumvent the clusterfuck of Youtube's Content ID system right now, but hey, your choice.
Or is that not possible because monetized videos will be reviewed manually before being allowed to be uploaded?

Also, Youtube will not be lacking of Let's Plays of games because there will be Let's Players who are not interested in monetizing. The battle lies on the people that wanted to be paid for their ad revenue. People say like all gaming videos are getting taken down when it's not.

And seriously, I don't think any other worker makes such an outrage himself when he got fired. Even when a studio gets closed down, it is a relatively quiet affair. If Let's Players are so angry, they should go find a solution in the meantime to sustain themselves. Youtube is currently not the place they should work in until the site worked out it's kinks. Then they can consider returning back.

Btw, there is a site that is also popular to watch Let's Plays videos, and non of them is monetized (not an option). Japan's Nicovideo. The people there are more interested in internet fame, and some of them make money through selling goods and conducting live plays.
 
good to see cgr being the leader like usual, after reading up some more on this and watching videos about how handlers like polaris essentially brought this on themselves i think the time has come to stop watching anything tied to content managers and stick to cgr/gb. so long to tb, he has my goodwill thanks to his truth telling which is rare in a touchy climate of access but he's obviously another slick and sleazy fellow along with the rest of these umbrella producers.
 
Youtubers getting fucked over by their employer, I doubt Google even need to put content owners in the new policy. They could have stopped monetization whenever they, or any court, wanted. Fun while it lasted, I'm going to see if any of my subs are affected. Is there a master list somewhere?
 
Sega1991 said:
It is legal in some regards.

What a lot of people don't realize, and I don't think the developers even entirely realize, is that when they produce, say, a soundtrack to their game, and that soundtrack ends up being sold somewhere... that requires a publisher. And usually, a different publisher from the game.
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What I find interesting is the number of people who say they had permission to play game content, but are getting bagged for musical content. Unless the publishers had some unusual licensing agreements with the music right holders, they likely don't have the legal right to give permission to Youtube video commentators regarding the music in their video games. They licensed the rights to the music from a rights holding organization, and unless the contract explicitly grants them the right to sub-license, they literally don't have the right to allow YouTube users to distribute content that contains the music from their games.
 
EvilKatarn said:
Here's how Classic Game Room deals with this.

I love it. Dude doesn't even give Youtube the pleasure. This is how you do it. This is over 15 years of internet media experience at work.
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Like a boss.

giphy.gif
 
besada said:
What I find interesting is the number of people who say they had permission to play game content, but are getting bagged for musical content. Unless the publishers had some unusual licensing agreements with the music right holders, they likely don't have the legal right to give permission to Youtube video commentators regarding the music in their video games. They licensed the rights to the music from a rights holding organization, and unless the contract explicitly grants them the right to sub-license, they literally don't have the right to allow YouTube users to distribute content that contains the music from their games.
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I think those are edge cases, to be honest. I'd be willing to say that more than half of all games released today still use original compositions. The only games that use licensed music in the most real sense are like, Grand Theft Auto (plus its imitators) and like, sports games. Batman does not have a radio full of licensed music. Neither does Halo, or Assassins Creed, etc.

But you are right, to an extent. I can't remember if it was from this thread or somewhere else that was discussing the issue, but I saw something interesting: there are obviously middleware-like services that produce and sell visual effects, background music, sound effects, etc. And under this new system, people are getting Content ID matches for things they bought and have the proper licenses to use and monetize. Except now, because they're using these licensed things, all of their Youtube revenue is being forwarded to the people who originally produced it.

That seems a little ridiculous, to me. Why would that even be a possibility? I can see why an Eminem song would be in this system, but why is Tribal_Drums_With_Backing_Orchestra_18.mp3, if the only way to get that song is to pay for a license to use it? That doesn't make any sense.
 
PotionBleue said:
“Flagged” seems like it's such an horrible big word these days… it just means that YouTubers are not getting revenue anymore from these videos. Nothing is blocked, accounts are not penalized. It's just whining for money really.
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Wow I had no idea. I thought it meant they were taking down completely.
 
Video Games Awesome had videos flagged by some company for using music by Philter. But Philter has been a fan of the show for quite a long time and had already given them written permission to use his music. They make an appeal using the evidence, but somehow the company refuses and reinstates the claim anyway. Philter himself says that it's complete bullshit.

This system sure works just fine, doesn't it?
 
Sega1991 said:
I think those are edge cases, to be honest. I'd be willing to say that more than half of all games released today still use original compositions.
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I don't think that matters. If a soundtrack of original compositions made for a game are released through a label different from the game's publisher - it won't fall under the same use rights as the game.

Example - WB publishes Batman Arkham Origins, but WaterTower Music (a division of WB entertainment) publishes the soundtrack.

They have, I believe, legal right to file a copyright claim for that music.
 
Psykoboy2 said:
I don't think that matters. If a soundtrack of original compositions made for a game are released through a label different from the game's publisher - it won't fall under the same use rights as the game.

Example - WB publishes Batman Arkham Origins, but WaterTower Music (a division of WB entertainment) publishes the soundtrack.

They have, I believe, legal right to file a copyright claim for that music.
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Well, that's what I said originally that sparked this conversation thread.

Regardless, the game publisher does have some power. I don't remember where I heard it - I think it was from TotalBiscuit on GiantBomb's morning show - Ubisoft is going through and clearing all of their game soundtracks to be used in Youtube videos and will apparently be doing so for all future releases, and those are licensed through (and being flagged by) a company called IDOL.
 
YouTube has now implemented one (maybe two?) ways to work around the Content ID claims.

The first is detailed here: Basically you can go to content ID'ed videos that have been ID'ed for music (most of them it seems) and automatically remove the offending tracks, while leaving the rest of the audio in tact (sections of video muted)


The other option, which I haven't seen mentioned anywhere else and doesn't seem to work at the moment is an automatic option to remove songs, seen below.

 
Wow, if this affects CGR, I wonder if AVGN will be soon? He has Cinemassacre if he does get hit but I still prefer YT's player (as shit as it has become).
 
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