Vigilant Walrus
Member
Revolutions will always hurt. It really. really dropped the ball. And it makes me sad.
Matrix Revolutions came out 10 years ago
- Thread starter Ermac
- Start date
- Status
^ And the imagery comes to film straight out of the Wachowskis / George Hull heads.
Concept art vs film:
The concept art was so detailed the VFX vendors all they had to do (creatively) was to replicate it.
Can't wait to see what kind of visuals the three have developed for Jupiter Ascending!
Fuck we really need some ridiculously ambitious, large-scale sci-fi's in this vein to come out soon.
dapperbandit
Banned
You know what it is don't you?
"The real world" is just a sub matrix. How else could Neo do that?
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I don't think they were saying the real world was another computer simulation.
More that Neo had the ability to transcend the limitations of the real world in just the same way as the Matrix. Like a Buddha.
angular graphics
Banned
Symbolically / thematically you are bang on. And these films are mostly meant to be understood this way (symbolically).
But practically (if that's the right word) his power was only over the machines and that is because he tapped into the Source. In the real world he wasn't able to fly, or save Trinity, or hell.. see anything that wasn't connected to the Source. For example he wasn't able to see/fly their hovercraft, which IS a machine but NOT a machine connected to the Source. Exploding sentinels though? Sure, no problem.
But the movies tell a parallel story if you follow the subtext and the imagery which is that of the evolution of a consciousness, from its birth into a world shaped by the law of karma, to gradually "knowing thyself", achieving enlightenment and breaking free from it.
Atraveller
Banned
People always forget people born in the matrix are actually cyborgs. Why can't Neo have a remote control hard-wired in him?
angular graphics
Banned
Yep, even the fetuses are cyborgs, before they are even put into their pods:
They all glow like every machine connected to the Source.
Once they are unplugged from the Matrix, they lose their connection to it, which is why Neo can "see" the pod people and fetuses but he cannot see Trinity.
dapperbandit
Banned
yeah I was just kidding, normally when I tell people that it infuriates them
Ein Bear
Member
Speaking of, I always found it kind of weird that nobody in the real world knew any kung-fu. How come the Neo/Bane-Smith fight has them just fighting like a couple of normal dudes, when they've had all these fancy martial arts downloaded into their heads?
angular graphics
Banned
Never thought of that. Very good question. I'd say it's because they have the "knowledge" but not the "training" since their real world muscles do not get used when they fight using their minds.
Furthermore since their real world enemy cannot be beaten with martial arts they probably do not do this kind of training in the real world. They'd much rather spent time in a VR simulation honing their virtual skills.
So it would be like someone who has watched hundreds of kung fu movies and knowing how to name all these moves and techniques but when he is asked to perform them, of course, he finds he can't. Knowledge itself isn't enough.
No muscle memory?
angular graphics
Banned
With that gif and that short sentence you summed it up better than I could ever do folks lol!
It's available worldwide. Only £10 for all three films and there's another package which includes the Animatrix for £20.
angular graphics
Banned
Next year is the 15th anniversary of The Matrix, if Warner are sane they will do a theatrical (converted-)3D re-release and a new BR (or even BR collection), but better not to expect much and be pleasantly surprised..
Of all the films this is the one that seems made to be converted to 3D. A match made in heaven.
angular graphics
Banned
Yes, a good 3D conversion would be amazing.
You have:
Bullets and debris:
Diving through a computer screen:
Characters crashing right into the screen:
Massive scale:
...and more!
You have:
Bullets and debris:
Diving through a computer screen:
Characters crashing right into the screen:
Massive scale:
...and more!
U n i o n 0015
Member
Haha, I remember that this was a popular fan theory on the Matrix boards after Reloaded came out.
Then they got the explanation in Revolutions...
This is how I interpreted it the first time I watched.
angular graphics
Banned
BTW here is what happened to Neo when he stopped the Sentinels in Reloaded, once he discovered he could feel them.
The Oracle explains:
To get a better understanding of it, a similar thing happens in Revolutions, when a Sentinel bangs itself on the Logos and dies but its spirit energy/ghost lives just enough to go right through Neo. Neo feels it and he starts losing consciousness ("you should be dead") but Trinity catches him and brings him back to reality.
Were it not for Trinity, again, he would either end up dead or in a coma.
Of course he does end up dead the third time he got in touch with the Source.. when he did understand he has to die:
But of course the reconnection with the Source is a spiritual awakening rather than death as he is now part of it..
The pattern is this:
feel -> can't -> death -> rebirth -> see -> can
The Oracle explains:
To get a better understanding of it, a similar thing happens in Revolutions, when a Sentinel bangs itself on the Logos and dies but its spirit energy/ghost lives just enough to go right through Neo. Neo feels it and he starts losing consciousness ("you should be dead") but Trinity catches him and brings him back to reality.
Were it not for Trinity, again, he would either end up dead or in a coma.
Of course he does end up dead the third time he got in touch with the Source.. when he did understand he has to die:
But of course the reconnection with the Source is a spiritual awakening rather than death as he is now part of it..
The pattern is this:
feel -> can't -> death -> rebirth -> see -> can
Is there an explanation, how the oracle could have known what happend to Neo after the sentinel touched him?
This happenend in the reality, not in the matrix, so without a connection to the outside, she couldnt know about this. Or has she a link to the source and with this a connection to the sentinels?
I really have to rewatch the trilogy^^
This happenend in the reality, not in the matrix, so without a connection to the outside, she couldnt know about this. Or has she a link to the source and with this a connection to the sentinels?
I really have to rewatch the trilogy^^
UltimaPooh
Member
No. 3D would be horrible.
Hope the theatre I work at puts something together for that week. Like all the movies or something.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
I only just realised how much that machine from the end of Revolutions seems to be inspired by the Ohmu from Nausicaa.
UltimaPooh
Member
I only just realised how much that machine from the end of Revolutions seems to be inspired by the Ohmu from Nausicaa.
Don't forget to add a comparison shot!
Spieler Eins
Member
In Tekken you do all crazy shit against your friend.
But when you fight IRL?
This is actually pretty much what the final fight looks like. It's probably one of the most ridiculous things I've seen in a movie that takes itself seriously. You have that pseudo-DBZ fight going on in the sorroundings, however in the middle of it are two levitating suits clapping each other :lol
angular graphics
Banned
Her being a program from the Machine World and having gold "code" should probably mean she has access to the Source.
Also consider this: In Revolutions Ramakandra says he consulted with the Oracle before going to the Merovingian and that "everyone knows the Oracle" even in his world. I assume Ramakandra cannot go to the Matrix without the Merovingian and he said he didn't go to him until the Oracle told him so.. which can only mean that in order to consult her, the Oracle can go and/or communicate with the Machine World.
But regardless, she is the "Mother of the Matrix", I assume she is being fed all info regarding Neo so the Sentinel report found its way to her one way or another.
Chances are it's going to be 3D or no re-release. So if you don't like the idea just don't watch it
I only just realised how much that machine from the end of Revolutions seems to be inspired by the Ohmu from Nausicaa.
Can't say I've watched that movie or whether Geof Darrow who designed the machine has
The name he gave to it is "garbage truck" btw. Garbage being Neo in this case, LOL.
angular graphics
Banned
^ Interestingly the face of the machine was designed by someone else. I just googled it and this came up: http://www.morleypride.com/Film_Design.html
Themoreyouknow!
Themoreyouknow!
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
There are some pretty good exchanges in that final fight as well though. Their ridiculously fast exchange of blows (which Neo completely dominates) on the street at the start of the fight is pretty cool. But the best stuff happens inside the building right after this moment:
That moment was so hype.
angular graphics
Banned
^ Yes!! What immediatelly follows your gif, the "shadow" fight against the rain that looked like Matrix code was great in terms of visuals!!
Generally the full CG Neo vs Smith shots up in the sky showed them fly, punch and kick as Gods would do, but the non CG shots were of the clapping variety because the stuntmen couldn't do much more (let alone the actors).
Generally the full CG Neo vs Smith shots up in the sky showed them fly, punch and kick as Gods would do, but the non CG shots were of the clapping variety
because the stuntmen couldn't do much more (let alone the actors).Hey angular graphics, ever tried to listen to the W. brothers explain the movie here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TLJb9NZN0I
You should try and slow it down and it'll clear up a lot for most people.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TLJb9NZN0I
You should try and slow it down and it'll clear up a lot for most people.
angular graphics
Banned
I play my games with subtitles enabled so no matter how fast he was talking I could read them when I played it as far as I remember
LW said:
angular graphics
Banned
Well, it was part of the joke to use complicated terms I'm not a Wachowski, but I imagine I am not far away from the truth:
Neo stands on the verge of Satori which means very deep spiritual understanding, enlightenment.
One of the themes in the trilogy is that of the paradox of Choice and Choicelessness, of Free Will versus Fate. I think it's a paradox because Choice can imply an element of Choicelessness; For example Neo is told he can take the red pill or the blue pill. That's good right? He can make a choice. But it's also a very binary choice, either/or, good/bad. If you are limited to make an either/or decision, that's almost as having no choice. Same when he has to choose between the left or the right door in the Architect's chamber.
That extends to Free Will vs Fate; Neo supposedly became free when he exited the Matrix, but was he really when he learned the One's path is part of a plan? No, not really. Same when he has the "free will" to choose between either wiping out Zion or killing all Humans. Wow, such free will! Both options suck and choosing either of them would be still following someone else's plan, still not really being "free".
To transcend this limitation, he has to start by surrendering himself. His self is very much linked to this binarity, as he is told Smith is "you, your opposite, your negative". It's just another big either/or, Neo or Smith. "The perspectival nature of Truth" is linked to this unwanted binarity (either/or) while the "Totality of Present Consciousness" transcends it because it sees the two sides as two halves that merge into a whole (total) rather than opposites (perspectives).
The de-limited spirit is that which was divided into opposing factions, Man vs Machine, Neo vs Smith, etc creating the paradox in the first place, but now it can become whole again and reappear. It knows no limits, no either/or.
So the binary either/or choice is transcended by a new path, which is the middle path, a path of understanding, of peace.
tl;dr One would expect for either the Humans to win or for the Machines, but Neo sacrifices himself which provides the world with the option of whycantwehaveboth.gif?
I'm not a Wachowski, but I imagine I am not far away from the truth:Neo stands on the verge of Satori which means very deep spiritual understanding, enlightenment.
One of the themes in the trilogy is that of the paradox of Choice and Choicelessness, of Free Will versus Fate. I think it's a paradox because Choice can imply an element of Choicelessness; For example Neo is told he can take the red pill or the blue pill. That's good right? He can make a choice. But it's also a very binary choice, either/or, good/bad. If you are limited to make an either/or decision, that's almost as having no choice. Same when he has to choose between the left or the right door in the Architect's chamber.
That extends to Free Will vs Fate; Neo supposedly became free when he exited the Matrix, but was he really when he learned the One's path is part of a plan? No, not really. Same when he has the "free will" to choose between either wiping out Zion or killing all Humans. Wow, such free will! Both options suck and choosing either of them would be still following someone else's plan, still not really being "free".
To transcend this limitation, he has to start by surrendering himself. His self is very much linked to this binarity, as he is told Smith is "you, your opposite, your negative". It's just another big either/or, Neo or Smith. "The perspectival nature of Truth" is linked to this unwanted binarity (either/or) while the "Totality of Present Consciousness" transcends it because it sees the two sides as two halves that merge into a whole (total) rather than opposites (perspectives).
The de-limited spirit is that which was divided into opposing factions, Man vs Machine, Neo vs Smith, etc creating the paradox in the first place, but now it can become whole again and reappear. It knows no limits, no either/or.
So the binary either/or choice is transcended by a new path, which is the middle path, a path of understanding, of peace.
tl;dr One would expect for either the Humans to win or for the Machines, but Neo sacrifices himself which provides the world with the option of whycantwehaveboth.gif?
There is only one Matrix. Rest are crap and they told shitty story of something which most of us should write for ourselves making that original Matrix ending perfect
One thing is true though, original Matrix ended era of real cinema and started era of CG and shoot bang movies.
Too bad most of new movies spending $$$ for CG have stories and dialogs written by grad students
I love Matrix but it devided whole industry for good old and shitty new cinema
One thing is true though, original Matrix ended era of real cinema and started era of CG and shoot bang movies.
Too bad most of new movies spending $$$ for CG have stories and dialogs written by grad students
I love Matrix but it devided whole industry for good old and shitty new cinema
UltimaPooh
Member
Chances are it's going to be 3D or no re-release. So if you don't like the idea just don't watch it
Where are you reading that chances are it will be 3D?
If the Wachowskis are smart they will totally be against doing that.
angular graphics
Banned
Thanks. I was once in a similar place to yours.
When I first watched the sequels I disliked them a lot, I thought that as scifi/action movies they were average to okay, but as matrix sequels I thought they were pretty terrible. I thought there were no ideas in them at all, no discussion to be had.
Later on I went online and found that people had discovered in them things I wouldn't have imagined let alone comprehend. I was amazed. I was like "did we watch the same movies?? Everything you say makes perfect sense but I don't understand why I couldn't see any of that on my own? What the hell is going on?!".
And that was what I needed. I started watching the movies again and again and with time I started understanding things on my own! Success!!
The sequels have a lot of really interesting ideas in them but they are invisible to most people. They certainly were to me.
They are much more complex movies than the first and well, as movies in general as I said they are "okay" (that's the difference, the first is an excellent movie, just not a very deep one (but still deeper than most action movies of course)).
angular graphics
Banned
As far as I know all(?) the recent anniversary re-releases of movies were in 3D, no?
Jurassic Park
Titanic
The Wizard of Oz
That's the trend, no? Were there any 2D re-releases in recent years?
If the Wachowskis are smart they will request a demo to judge how well the movie works in 3D instead of flat out saying "nope, sucks". That being said, it's not like their involvement or approval is required by Warner.
I share the feelings. Reloaded had better action sequences, but Revolutions had more of the story.
Wish they had left it with the 1st film and The Animatrix though.
angular graphics
Banned
I hope there's no problem posting this here, if there is I apologize to the mods, I'll take it down immediately.
In almost every single thread about The Matrix I have participated in, there have been complaints about how the new master of the film used for the 2004 DVD and the Blu-ray is significantly greener than it was originally. Personally I prefer the revised color timing but that's irrelevant;
There's a unique opportunity to restore the film in great definition and with the original color timing used in the theaters since someone has got access to a 35mm print.
Unfortunately there's a deadline and the print must be purchased before that. Should you be willing to pledge you have until Sunday to do so. And you can pledge as low as you can afford, even $5 is infinitely better than $0.
If you are interested please take a look here: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/The-Matrix-35mm-Preservation/topic/16139/ and please note that every single pledge is critical; it's far from a "done deal".
Note: the reason one should be interested in this is that it is unlikely the movie will ever get released on home video with the original color timing. Either someone transfers the 35mm print or we're stuck with 1999's DVD quality forever.
Note 2: the originaltrilogy.com community is behind several famous Star Wars restorations, fanedits etc. You might have heard of some of them. In case you are afraid this is a scam, it is very unlikely.
In almost every single thread about The Matrix I have participated in, there have been complaints about how the new master of the film used for the 2004 DVD and the Blu-ray is significantly greener than it was originally. Personally I prefer the revised color timing but that's irrelevant;
There's a unique opportunity to restore the film in great definition and with the original color timing used in the theaters since someone has got access to a 35mm print.
Unfortunately there's a deadline and the print must be purchased before that. Should you be willing to pledge you have until Sunday to do so. And you can pledge as low as you can afford, even $5 is infinitely better than $0.
If you are interested please take a look here: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/The-Matrix-35mm-Preservation/topic/16139/ and please note that every single pledge is critical; it's far from a "done deal".
Note: the reason one should be interested in this is that it is unlikely the movie will ever get released on home video with the original color timing. Either someone transfers the 35mm print or we're stuck with 1999's DVD quality forever.
Note 2: the originaltrilogy.com community is behind several famous Star Wars restorations, fanedits etc. You might have heard of some of them. In case you are afraid this is a scam, it is very unlikely.
angular graphics
Banned
As far as I understand unless the OT community purchases it until Sunday, some other dude will purchase it who is 100% against scanning (probably because collectors don't want their items to lose their value, which they do if they are no longer "rare"), so it's now or never.
Also note that normally there's a $1000 cost to scan a print but the dude over the OT forums who will purchase the print can do it for free (probably at his workplace? He also said he has personally worked on The Matrix). As I said it's a unique opportunity..
Also note that normally there's a $1000 cost to scan a print but the dude over the OT forums who will purchase the print can do it for free (probably at his workplace? He also said he has personally worked on The Matrix). As I said it's a unique opportunity..
I think a lot of people get hung up on this because they do such a shitty job of explaining pretty much everything in the film.
'The one' is part of the machine plan to sustain the matrix every time the human rebels get too big. the Architect says, the rebels 'constitute an escalating probability for disaster' (they will eventually get too big and cause headaches for the machines). 'The one' was created by the machines as a way of controlling the rebellion by resetting the matrix, while the machines destroy the rebel stronghold on the outside. Naturally, you can assume that Neo has the special power to defend himself outside of the Matrix so not to fuck up the plan.
edit: http://www.reddit.com/r/AskScienceFiction/comments/xtxtj/this_is_kindof_a_stupid_question_but_is_there/c5u9qmz?context=3
here's the whole theory. I'm basically plagiarizing what he wrote.
angular graphics
Banned
It's been a while since I went over the Architect's speech, but as far I recall the Architect's headache is the instability in the Matrix, not Zion.
From your link:
But that's not what the Architect says. Take a look:
The flaw is mathematical..
..and it creates instability problems all over the Matrix.
Whoever rejects the Matrix creates a flaw.
These flaws can bring down the system.
=>
Therefore every time someone rejects the Matrix he can potentially bring down the system.
To sum up, the Architect doesn't worry about Zion getting too powerful, not when they are merely 250k people, anyway. You have to remember the Machines battled against BILLIONS of humans and won, HUNDREDS of years ago. By now they must be so advanced that Zion cannot possibly be a threat to them with a mere 250k people living in it.
What he worries about is the tiny flaws created in the Matrix' equations every time someone rejects it.. they can eventually add up and crash the whole thing.
From your link:
But that's not what the Architect says. Take a look:
The flaw is mathematical..
..and it creates instability problems all over the Matrix.
Whoever rejects the Matrix creates a flaw.
These flaws can bring down the system.
=>
Therefore every time someone rejects the Matrix he can potentially bring down the system.
To sum up, the Architect doesn't worry about Zion getting too powerful, not when they are merely 250k people, anyway. You have to remember the Machines battled against BILLIONS of humans and won, HUNDREDS of years ago. By now they must be so advanced that Zion cannot possibly be a threat to them with a mere 250k people living in it.
What he worries about is the tiny flaws created in the Matrix' equations every time someone rejects it.. they can eventually add up and crash the whole thing.
- Status