Matrix Revolutions came out 10 years ago

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It could be. However Enter the Matrix, released the same day as Reloaded, already featured the new actress instead of say cutting the character's scenes which makes me believe they managed to deal in time.

(Although her first appearance in the game during a scene that takes place before Reloaded is a continuity error! Her later scenes in the game are after Reloaded and an explanation is also given for her new face).
 
I for one am very grateful that every year we get further and further away from that movie. The downside of that is that we also get further away from the first Matrix. But then I just remind myself that we're also further away from Matrix reloaded so all in all I'm pretty satisfied with each passing year.
 
I watched all three movies back to back the first time I saw them. Mostly because I just had nothing to do that day.

I don't get the hate for part 2 and part 3, especially considering that "part 2 and part 3" of a 3 part story were exactly what they were.

I think that a lot of people enjoy world building and mystery. But it's tough to base an entire plot off of that sense of discovery, so instead we're introduced to the rules and then given the conflict that takes place in that set of rules. The whole first movie is about those rules. It's layering on detail after detail. People like it for the same reason people like things like Dune or Harry Potter, there's constantly detail being revealed. It's fun and comfortable. But once the stage is set, something has to actually be accomplished.

And the rave scene just shows how convinced of and into the 1980s and 1990s cyberpunk stuff the writers were (even though the movie isn't really part of that genre). It's the same reason every character wears a shiny leather ensembles. It might seem out of place, but there's at least an explanation for why it's there.
 
The real reason Matrix 2 & 3 turned out how they did:

The Mystery of Larry Wachowski
http://lecter.org/forum/showthread.php?t=248

That's why the bondage leather stuff, the group rave orgy and other weird stuff did make the final cut.

The "orgy" scene is too long, that's valid criticism, but it's not out of place. It's juxtaposed with Neo and Trinity, unlike all the others, preferring to go to a private place to share their love more intimately. This is crucial because during the film's pivotal moment Neo is asked to choose between saving Trinity or Zion and be chooses Trinity. So the orgy wasn't there because "aw fuck it let's put in one lol I like them".

Moving on, to the "bondage leather stuff" which consist of the Merovingian running such a fetish club named (and symbolizing) Hel(l). A goth type of club was where Neo and Trinity met in the first movie.

Then there's the cake orgasm girl. Food being used to transfer "data" of some kind is an idea that exists since the first movie (the Oracle baking cookies), but now that Neo has the vision and we the knowledge, actually explored and depicted on screen. Also the first movie had Mouse lusting over the Woman in the Red Dress he had created and heavily implied he used her for sex, like he proposed to Neo to do as well.

But ultimately, the best point to make is that their first movie, Bound, the lesbian neo noir thriller, was undoubtly both their kinkiest one and one of their very best.
 
Is it worth buying the Ultimate Collection if I have the original DVD's?

I've never seen the AniMatrix and after reading all the positive comments here I really want to watch it now.

If you mean buying the DVD collection, perhaps you should buy the Animatrix DVD on its own.
If you want the Animatrix on BR, it's not available on its own, so you should buy the BR collection.

In either case you should get and watch the Animatrix for sure!
 
I remember watching Reloaded in the theater, and actually enjoying it. It wasn't until I talked to friends that I was aware that many people hated it. I didn't love it, but I didn't hate it. I was entertained.

Same thing with Revolutions, although I enjoyed Reloaded better, I felt that Revolutions had some amazing stuff in it, in particular The Seige on Zion, and the final battle at the end.

Narratively, it wrapped up its storylines well, even if I didn't care much for the Architect character at all. As sci fi movies, I think they're both very good. As part of the Matrix trilogy, they are weak. The first Matrix is fantastic. The other two are interesting explorations of science and religion, wrapped up in a popcorn flick. I think the hate is blown out of proportion, but what isn't on the internet?

I re-watched the entire trilogy about a year ago, and came away feeling that the vitriol thrown the two sequels way is excessive.
 
Reloaded and revolutions have their good moments and I like the story, they're just weighed down by a lot, a lot of unnecessary shit. Especially reloaded that has waaay too long action sequences and overuses slow motion.
 
Reloaded > The Matrix > Revolution.


Beside that, Revolution has a lot eyecandys like the final fight for Zion or the last confrontation between Smith and Neo. In terms of story it has some very dull moments.
 
It wasn't bad because it was a "mind fuck" and the audience rejected it. It's that it was unexpectedly pedestrian.

We tried making a movie that was worthy of being a sequel to The Matrix. But focus groups rejected it. Their minds couldn't cope with such perfection. So we went back and made a movie that people could understand. A dull, pedestrian sequel that people would accept as normal.


Are 'The Thirteenth Floor' and 'The Wonderland Gambit' any good? saw them reference earlier
 
The main problem with Reloaded is that it completely gambles itself to be a "set" in favor of a having Revolutions be the "spike"

Unfortunately, the payoff in revolutions is fairly awful, retroactively devaluing Reloaded.

My other big issue with that movie is that the highway sequence serves absolutely no purpose. It's shown under the guise of "going for an exit that's far away," but that makes little sense, since the keymaker can't use an exit, and their entire purpose was getting him.
 
Narratively, it wrapped up its storylines well, even if I didn't care much for the Architect character at all.

Whereas I absolutely loved the Architect segment. It overloaded my mind with information so quickly and pulled back the curtain brilliantly. It reminds me of the Council of Elrond where we have all this information coming at once and it takes a while to sink in.
 
The main problem with Reloaded is that it completely gambles itself to be a "set" in favor of a having Revolutions be the "spike"

Unfortunately, the payoff in revolutions is fairly awful, retroactively devaluing Reloaded.

My other big issue with that movie is that the highway sequence serves absolutely no purpose. It's shown under the guise of "going for an exit that's far away," but that makes little sense, since the keymaker can't use an exit, and their entire purpose was getting him.

Yes, I agree, once Morpheus and the Keymaker are rescued by Neo it cuts at night not quite explaining what they did with the Keymaker once they got out, in the in between hours. I can think of a few potential answers (mainly the Keymaker hiding somewhere in the Matrix waiting for them) but just having a gap is weird.
 
What pissed me off most about the trilogy was how they glossed over Neo's real-world ability to control sentinels in a single sentence.

The part of the second movie that actually made theatergoers gasp and they wrote it off with a single throwaway line.

And yeah, they probably explain it in the MMO or whatever, but who gives a shit. The movie is supposed to explain everything the audience needs, not the supplemental material. Reminds me of some of the biggest storytelling issues with the later Halo games, in fact.

I don't even really mind the end of Revolutions, either. Peace sort of makes sense and it fits with the inner philosophy of the films. The problem with the sequels wasn't the ideas presented, it was entirely their execution.
 
What pissed me off most about the trilogy was how they glossed over Neo's real-world ability to control sentinels in a single sentence.

The part of the second movie that actually made theatergoers gasp and they wrote it off with a single throwaway line.

And yeah, they probably explain it in the MMO or whatever, but who gives a shit. The movie is supposed to explain everything the audience needs, not the supplemental material. Reminds me of some of the biggest storytelling issues with the later Halo games, in fact.

I don't even really mind the end of Revolutions, either. Peace sort of makes sense and it fits with the inner philosophy of the films. The problem with the sequels wasn't the ideas presented, it was entirely their execution.

Revolutions consciously doesn't hand you over the answers, but that doesn't mean there are no answers to find.

Lana Wachowski said:
So the first movie is sort of classical in its approach, the second movie is deconstructionist and an assault on all the things you thought to be true in the first movie ... and the third movie is the most ambiguous, because it asks you to actually participate in the construction of meaning.

We wanted to see if we could change the moviegoing experience, a passive experience, into an active experience. And people resented it.
 
And yeah, they probably explain it in the MMO or whatever, but who gives a shit. The movie is supposed to explain everything the audience needs, not the supplemental material. Reminds me of some of the biggest storytelling issues with the later Halo games, in fact.

Can you tell me, why he can do this? I always wondered why, but as you said, there were no explanation.
 
Whereas I absolutely loved the Architect segment. It overloaded my mind with information so quickly and pulled back the curtain brilliantly. It reminds me of the Council of Elrond where we have all this information coming at once and it takes a while to sink in.

LOL. I hated the Council of Elrond, both the book scene and the movie. LOL.

Different tastes and all that. But yeah, I totally understand. I remember being tripped out in the theater when that whole segment played out. The purpose of the scene itself is fine, I just didn't care for the Architect. I wanted to punch him in his smug face. Lol.
 
Revolutions consciously doesn't hand you over the answers, but that doesn't mean there are no answers to find.

if you are doing the conscious, "im not giving you answers because i'm clever" thing, then the pieces need to be there for you to put together. When they don't do that, it's called "sloppy writing"

additionally, i find the following shit in that flick to be maddening:

1. The Merovingian "Hell" Scene is completely pointless. the action is brief, unremarkable and, the entire interaction does absolutely nothing to drive the plot.
2. Neo's real-world abilities are not explored at all.
2. Trinity's death serves no purpose. Given that the driving motivator of the previous film was ensuring her survival, the death seems cheap, not well thought out, and simply there because they had nothing to do with her at the end.
 
LOL. I hated the Council of Elrond, both the book scene and the movie. LOL.

Different tastes and all that. But yeah, I totally understand. I remember being tripped out in the theater when that whole segment played out. The purpose of the scene itself is fine, I just didn't care for the Architect. I wanted to punch him in his smug face. Lol.

Ha, I loved his smugness, his arrogance just because he had been through it all before and thought it was simply a given what would happen.

The Council of Elrond is probably my favourite chapter of any I have read in literature. I just love chapters which reveal so much information and open your eyes to the bigger picture. We're ying and yang, lol.
 
if you are doing the conscious, "im not giving you answers because i'm clever" thing, then the pieces need to be there for you to put together. When they don't do that, it's called "sloppy writing"

additionally, i find the following shit in that flick to be maddening:

1. The Merovingian "Hell" Scene is completely pointless. the action is brief, unremarkable and, the entire interaction does absolutely nothing to drive the plot.
2. Neo's real-world abilities are not explored at all.
2. Trinity's death serves no purpose. Given that the driving motivator of the previous film was ensuring her survival, the death seems cheap, not well thought out, and simply there because they had nothing to do with her at the end.

The pieces are there and have been found and assembled by more than its creators.

For example the Hel scene, that's easy, sets up the plot device with which the Oracle wins the game.
 
Ha, I loved his smugness, his arrogance just because he had been through it all before and thought it was simply a given what would happen.

The Council of Elrond is probably my favourite chapter of any I have read in literature. I just love chapters which reveal so much information and open your eyes to the bigger picture. We're ying and yang, lol.

LOL. Yeah, it's funny how people can see two things totally differently. I definitely understand your point, though. But man, the Architect. That douche. I wanted Neo to fuck him up. LOL.

As for Elrond, yeah, I love the LOTR movies, and I feel the movie, at the least, handled the Council of Elrond much snappier than the books. I love learning new stuff about the world, but one of my biggest problems with Tolkien was how and when he implemented his info dumps into the overall narrative.
 
LOL. Yeah, it's funny how people can see two things totally differently. I definitely understand your point, though. But man, the Architect. That douche. I wanted Neo to fuck him up. LOL.

As for Elrond, yeah, I love the LOTR movies, and I feel the movie, at the least, handled the Council of Elrond much snappier than the books. I love learning new stuff about the world, but one of my biggest problems with Tolkien was how and when he implemented his info dumps into the overall narrative.

To be fair, I doubt if LOTR would get published today, as it's written. They would probably ask for changes. The Architect? I just loved him, smugness and all.
 
Can you tell me, why he can do this? I always wondered why, but as you said, there were no explanation.

Oops, just catching up on this thread.

So this was the explanation in the movie:

Oracle: The power of the One extends beyond this world. It reaches from here all the way back to where it came from.

Neo: Where?

Oracle: The source.

That's it. Yeah, not like "we genetically engineered you with a wireless connection" or some shit. What we got is just lazy, poor writing. That's a kick in the nuts to anyone who gasped at the end of Reloaded.

I completely buy the Wachowski's arguments that these movies are meant to be somewhat ambigous thematically, but most people don't have a problem with that. It's the basic storytelling elements that are weak in these movies.
 
Oops, just catching up on this thread.

So this was the explanation in the movie:



That's it. Yeah, not like "we genetically engineered you with a wireless connection" or some shit. What we got is just lazy, poor writing. That's a kick in the nuts to anyone who gasped at the end of Reloaded.

I completely buy the Wachowski's arguments that these movies are meant to be somewhat ambigous thematically, but most people don't have a problem with that. It's the basic storytelling elements that are weak in these movies.

Thank you, this really kind of weak, but at least. it was explained.

thanks :)
 
Oops, just catching up on this thread.

So this was the explanation in the movie:



That's it. Yeah, not like "we genetically engineered you with a wireless connection" or some shit. What we got is just lazy, poor writing. That's a kick in the nuts to anyone who gasped at the end of Reloaded.

I completely buy the Wachowski's arguments that these movies are meant to be somewhat ambigous thematically, but most people don't have a problem with that. It's the basic storytelling elements that are weak in these movies.

The Oracle would never speak using such terms, maybe the Architect would ;P

Neo has a connection to the Source, whether that's a physical or a metaphysical one is up to the viewer to decide. Same goes for the power of the One, the eyesight of the Oracle and so on.

Usually The Matrix suggests something metaphysical (the One is a cool dude the prophecies told us about! Cypher cannot even unplug and kill Neo in time he is protected by providence! It's a miracle!), Reloaded suggests the opposite (the One is a dude the machines created as part of a computer program! No such thing as miracles.. everything is calculated in advance) and Revolutions supports both.. letting the viewer decide, just like Neo has to do by the third film.

And once you figure out both views are one and the same, this is when it becomes fun. ;)

LW said:
"There's something uniquely interesting about Buddhism and mathematics, particularly about quantum physics, and where they meet. That has fascinated us for a long time.". "[...] The idea that math and theology are almost the same. They begin with a supposition you can derive a whole host of laws or rules from. And when you take all of them to the infinity point, you wind up at the same place: these unanswerable mysteries really become about personal perception. Neo's journey is affected by all these rules, all these people trying to tell him what the truth is. He doesn't accept anything until he gets to his own end point, his own rebirth."

The quote predates Reloaded & Revolutions but it works even better if you take into account those movies as well, like this:

LW said:
"There's something uniquely interesting about Buddhism (The Matrix) and mathematics (The Matrix Reloaded), particularly about quantum physics, and where they meet. (The Matrix Revolutions) That has fascinated us for a long time.". "[...] The idea that math (The Matrix Reloaded) and theology (The Matrix) are almost the same. (The Matrix Revolutions) They begin with a supposition you can derive a whole host of laws or rules from. And when you take all of them to the infinity point, you wind up at the same place (The Matrix Revolutions): these unanswerable mysteries really become about personal perception. (The Matrix Revolutions) Neo's journey is affected by all these rules, all these people trying to tell him what the truth is (The Matrix & The Matrix Reloaded). He doesn't accept anything until he gets to his own end point (The Matrix Revolutions), his own rebirth."
 
Revolutions is better than Reloaded. If you disregard the pointless opening half hour and the final 10 minutes, it's a pretty fucking great sci-fi film.
 
Well I guess I'm just a unique snowflake cuz I've always like Reloaded and Revolutions more than the original (and the original was great). Fantastic trilogy that everyone on the net seems to hate. *sigh*
 
I only liked this part:

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Ah yes, him. The only real human in the whole of Matrix. I like him. :)
 
Until today I STILL don't understand who wakes the Bald Guy from the Matrix in the first movie after he met with Smith to betray his comrades.
 
The annoying stuff the Bros got from their "Philosophy for Dummies" book aside, I thought the second and third films were serviceable sci-fi action flicks.

I'm not over awed by the first Matrix film like so many here seem to be, but felt it was helped considerably by the Bros having actual checks and balances placed on them.

Matrix was the more effective film and resonated with people. The sequels were unchained vision thrown across the screen. There is something to be said for that, to be sure, but in the end they meant much less to the audience than the first.
 
This thread made me re-watch all three films for the first time in years. Have to say, I enjoyed Reloaded/Revolutions a lot more than I remember doing before.

They definitely aren't perfect, but I found them pretty enjoyable. I think they suffer from being a bit stretched out - if you combined the best bits from both into a single movie, you'd end up with a fucking awesome film.

Hugo Weaving is fantastic btw.
 
This thread reminds me that I still need to rewatch these films in glorious 1080p.

First Blu-Ray I'll watch on my PS4 perhaps.
Please tell me more about that, I've always wanted to watch the Matrix trilogy in HD. Is there a more recent re-release? If so, did it came out in Europe, or just US? Thanks.
 
The world was so blown away by the compelling way of portraying the allegory of the cave in the first movie, they seemed to completely forget to consider what the subsequent movies would be about. It seemed everyone was set on having their mind blown, that when the second and third movie continued the plot on the basis set in the first movie, it's boring.

I don't get that.

if you are doing the conscious, "im not giving you answers because i'm clever" thing, then the pieces need to be there for you to put together. When they don't do that, it's called "sloppy writing"

I think it's extremely invalid to counter a proposal that it's a choice not to engage in certain topics by saying it has to be sloppy writing, since it's not readily understood. There are so many movies that are ambiguous without enough information. You say it's sloppy writing to not include all necessary information, but I think that's crap. To me, it points to the human mind wishing to have enough information to figure something out, lamenting things it can't figure out as a short-coming on the other part.

Some of the best works within these story-telling media include completely open ends. The Last of Us and Inception come to mind, and just look at the way people desperately seek to topple all other theories in favor of their own, with the crux of them normally being yelling at the creator to get them to reveal their original intent.

Explore the themes, there are a lot more clues that you seem to think there is. There's so much going on in these movies that aren't fully explored, and that do not have enough information to not be ubiquitously interpreted. This is actually something that's at the core of most pieces of art, be it paintings or music. It means different things to different people, and the original intent is not relevant. It's sharing these experiences we have that can deepen our minds, as a collective Rorschach test wherein we interpret our own interpretations.

I think it's rather insipid to put it like you do.

additionally, i find the following shit in that flick to be maddening:

1. The Merovingian "Hell" Scene is completely pointless. the action is brief, unremarkable and, the entire interaction does absolutely nothing to drive the plot.
2. Neo's real-world abilities are not explored at all.
2. Trinity's death serves no purpose. Given that the driving motivator of the previous film was ensuring her survival, the death seems cheap, not well thought out, and simply there because they had nothing to do with her at the end.

1. L'ange sans ailes? "Holy shit, it's wingless". "My little judas". C'mon. Aside from the small pieces of interesting dialogue, the scene tells me so much about the human condition. It underlines both Smith's and The Architect's points. Smith hates us, because we're reckless and think otherwise. The Architect was amazed that The Paradise Matrix didn't work. There are so many things about the human condition that's underlined by the theme of the scene. You're telling something by the set pieces, rather than through dialog. It's an unsettling scene in many ways, but that's the point.

2. Why does it have to?

3. I think it servedreat purpose. Neo has to let go. In the second movie, he refuses, and seems to be completely insane in choosing the way he does, merely to save her. In the first movie, she refuses. Now they have to let go. You point it out yourself. You say her survival was the driving motivator, and here she does. I cannot see anything pointless about that.

Please tell me more about that, I've always wanted to watch the Matrix trilogy in HD. Is there a more recent re-release? If so, did it came out in Europe, or just US? Thanks.

Should be readily available. I bought it in Norway like four years ago.
 
There's some fantastic imagery in Revolutions. From the machine city to the Zion battle, we were given some pretty impressive sci-fi images.

matrixrevolutionsdockj5q72.gif
 
There's some fantastic imagery in Revolutions. From the machine city to the Zion battle, we were given some pretty impressive sci-fi images.

matrixrevolutionsdockj5q72.gif

Fucking yes, Sculli.

The Matrix is probably the most influential movie of my life, Reloaded was just a relatively solid movie and Revolutions was a few great scenes pulled together by sticky poop.

Still an important trilogy to me.
 
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