hmm fair enough, i hadn't thought of that.
May 7th | UK General Election 2015 OT - Please go vote!
- Thread starter Volotaire
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hmm fair enough, i hadn't thought of that.
RedSparrows
Member
How about both?
How about land reform while we're at it. Now that's blue-sky thinking...
Psychotext
Member
War Peaceman
You're a big guy.
I despise ukip but this is a democracy. Just because I don't like them doesn't mean they shouldn't be represented fairly
thequickandthedead
Member
How did Natalie Benett lose so badly?
It's not really about whether I'd rather A, B, or C. I'd want (and expect) these lazy fuckers to look at all 3.
There are also people that would suggest there is no fraud or misuse of the benefits system whatsoever. Both groups can probably be ignored as the truth will lie in the middle somewhere.
i mean again, i don't know why you'd be happy to have the tories in power if this is what you think. they're massively less likely to take an even handed approach like this than labour.
not really; the truth lies far closer to the 'no abuse' than it does to 'there's rampant abuse'
the abuse is negligible as a percentage of the total welfare bill
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Once the final seat is in I'll post a new news thread detailing the election results and so on, aimed at a broader viewership.
MisterFalcon
Member
It depends if the Sinn Fein MP's will boycott the parliament or not.
Charles Brandon
Member
practically you only need 323 because of the speaker and the shinners not voting.
Strictly you need 326
326 I think?
And wow 335 lost deposits for Lib? That's £167,500... Did I hear that right?
RedSparrows
Member
There are also those who cite government stats to suggest it's nowhere near 'the middle', and actually is far closer to being a smaller, but still important, issue than a lot of people seem to think.
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
1603.
Jimmyfenix
Member
<3 snp
50 seats gained!
50 seats gained!
I don't think you understand at all.
How would somebody go about committing benefit fraud?
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
A 'strict' majority is 326 - half of the MPs plus one. Practically, Sinn Fein abstains from taking up their seats, of which they won 4, so there are only 646 seats in practice, meaning a 'working' majority is 324. Most predictions had SF taking 5 seats, which was why people thought a working majority would be 323; that doesn't seem to be the case.
At no point have I said I'm happy to have the Tories in power. I did not vote for the Tories. My missus did, and I gave her (light hearted) stick over it. I'm just less unhappy than I would've been had Labour been elected.
The truth is that neither 'no abuse' or 'rampant abuse' is true. Therefore, I'm fine with the idea of scrutiny and reform.
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
Welcome to FPTP.
UKIP failed today the same way David Steel and the Liberals did in 1983. Lots of votes across the country, but no large clumps in major constituencies.
It's the best thing to happen to England, they pretty much secured a conservative win.
I think he's making a statement in about 23mins, or was that Ed?
AHA-Lambda
Member
That sounds far better, and SNP wouldn't have swept every seat with ~35% vote total.
My vote (which was tactical anyway) meant nothing.
Psychotext
Member
Which is fine, when the scrutiny / reform doesn't cost you more than the fraud did. Say hello to Universal Credit.
but why? in both of the reasons you've highlighted for your voting, it's not at all clear that the tories would be better than labour. in fact there's pretty strong evidence they're worse.
okay, but 0.7% is closer to 0 than it is to, say, 1.5%
it strikes me as horrifically disingenuous to say that 'both sides have a valid point' when that actual benefit fraud is less than 1%
RedSparrows
Member
But that is the point. This is what bugs me about such discussions: point me to anyone who doesn't think any government system should be scrutinised. The point is precisely WHAT reform is needed, desireable or beneficial to the majority whilst retaining protections for the minority - i.e. how a supposedly civilised democratic country is run. Apparently we are eager to undermine the poor as a WHOLE because of small groups of fraudsters.
Juke Joint Jezebel
Member
Yup. The scots pretty much secured a conservative ran country. Crazy stuff.
Those who say there is rampant fraud/abuse can be ignored a lot more so since they're further from the truth
tories would have won even if all of the seats in scotland voted labour...
The amount lost due to fraud and abuse is £1.6 billion a year. This is less than the amount lost due to government error in paying benefits, which is £2.2 billion. There is simply no way to make significant savings by targeting fraud, because there just isn't that much of it.
The Tories would still be in even if Labour got all the Scottish seats.
GazzaScotland
Member
I don't thing the conservatives would have gotten so many swing votes from Labour for the fear of a Labour/SNP coalition.
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
If literally every Scottish person voted Labour, they would still have only got 286 seats.
Bring Back Blair?
Will Labour go to the right? I was pretty shocked to hear that Labour, were 'too far left', it never really felt like that, but I suppose when neoliberalism becomes the ONLY narrative in town, even the Lib Dems feel like a left-leaning party.
CyclopsRock
Member
I asume this has been posted but this was Cam's little speech in CCHQ:
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffee...ers-this-is-the-sweetest-victory-of-them-all/
He should talk like that more often. Obviously he's pumped up but man, he comes across so much better when he's less formal and talks about hating blogs.
In other news, you'd think Jo Johnson would get rewarded for his work on the manifesto (the degree to which it was important is obviously unknown, but he was working on it for literally years) but with Boris back in, they might not be too keen on the idea of a Dynastic cabinet. Then again, the Milibands were both in cabinet together and it worked out well enough for them.
OH.
But really, with no Lib Dems there should be plenty of junior minister positions to splurge around. I'm sure Jo will get something.
And Lord Crosby has to be in the first new Lords intake, no? Motherfucker was vindicated entirely.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffee...ers-this-is-the-sweetest-victory-of-them-all/
He should talk like that more often. Obviously he's pumped up but man, he comes across so much better when he's less formal and talks about hating blogs.
In other news, you'd think Jo Johnson would get rewarded for his work on the manifesto (the degree to which it was important is obviously unknown, but he was working on it for literally years) but with Boris back in, they might not be too keen on the idea of a Dynastic cabinet. Then again, the Milibands were both in cabinet together and it worked out well enough for them.
OH.
But really, with no Lib Dems there should be plenty of junior minister positions to splurge around. I'm sure Jo will get something.
And Lord Crosby has to be in the first new Lords intake, no? Motherfucker was vindicated entirely.
There's no 'it depends', they're not going to take their seats.
Pankratous
Member
Why wouldn't they? Why did they even run?
Red Liquorice
Member
Farage not getting a seat almost makes up for the Tories having another 5 years, almost.
Honestly, there's not much more for me to say on benefit reforms. Some say they should happen, many say they're not needed, and ultimately none of that has any effect on what will actually happen. It was supposed to be a minor point in response to an earlier post, not some hill I wish I die on.
Because I don't like the Labour Party. I have been demonstrably less happy when they are in power. The Conservatives have not (yet) inspired such revulsion.
yeah, it's fucking miserable. this is the darkest day for left wing britons in a lifetime.
GazzaScotland
Member
Murphy not stepping down by the sounds of it. Deary me.
RedSparrows
Member
Yup.
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