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[Spaghetti]

ukip currently imploding

 

[mclem]

Hee hee:

So, I'm not quite understanding what's going on with UKIP leadership? Farage resigned, they didn't accept his resignation, and now they want him out? It seems like the beef is more with the party brass rather than Farage himself, or was the resignation/nonacceptance just deliberate showmanship?

 

[kmag]

Some of it sounds plausible, I've heard bits and pieces. Some just the usual political sticking the knife in the loser stuff.

They knew the SNP stuff was working, Ed writing a winning speech is probably just procedure/something you have to do if there's a remote chance you could win.

The Ed Stone was just daft, someone obviously thought it was a good idea for some reason.

Supposedly it was the brain child of the Labour folks from Better Together, who were desperate to get the vow etched in stone. Ruth Davidson, the Scottish Tory leader, and Willie Rennie, the Lib Dem Scottish leader, talked them out of it.

 

[Jezbollah]

That Spectator article is certainly something. Like PJV3 said, we've heard bits and pieces about this.. One thing I know is that image of Ed Miliband leaving his home that night was of a man who almost looks like he had his soul removed. He was *crushed*.

I really can't wait for the books or documentaries that may come out about this election. What a story.

 

[PJV3]

That Spectator article is certainly something. Like PJV3 said, we've heard bits and pieces about this.. One thing I know is that image of Ed Miliband leaving his home that night was of a man who almost looks like he had his soul removed. He was *crushed*.

I really can't wait for the books or documentaries that may come out about this election. What a story.

From the Tory side I've heard Miliband did take the lead in their polls, the SNP thing just blew it away. Their work in Libdem areas also probably blindsided Labour, it wasn't a focus for them.

 

[Tak3n]

Labour rejects Hodges story

Posted at 11:46


A firm rejection of the Spectator story by Dan Hodges, which painted a bleak picture of Labour's election campaign.












Piece on Labour by @DPJHodges in today's Spectator is utter rubbish and fabricated from start to finish.


Labour Press Team

labourpress



Piece on Labour by @DPJHodges in today's Spectator is utter rubbish and fabricated from start to finish.

10:30 a.m. - 14 May 2015

 

[Faddy]

Hee hee:

So, I'm not quite understanding what's going on with UKIP leadership? Farage resigned, they didn't accept his resignation, and now they want him out? It seems like the beef is more with the party brass rather than Farage himself, or was the resignation/nonacceptance just deliberate showmanship?

It isn't that they don't want Farage they just don't want to be seen as a one man band. Plus a leadersship contest gets them more media attention and keeps the spotlight on their policies

 

[CyclopsRock]

Tbf, we used to have an almost running joke about Dan Hodges in the old UKPoligaf thread where a few of us would routinely link to his articles and almost have to pre-empt the eye-rolls because they were often outlandish - but to be fair to him, he was basically the only pundit who called the election right. There was a lot of Crow eating on May 8th. I'll read the piece now, but between him and the Labour press team, I know who I trust more...

 

[kitch9]

I have said ever since the law on fox hunting came in that it was unworkable, all people see if Foxes being killed, and they stopped it...

But they did not, Hunts still take place as regularly as they did before, they simply read the law and adapted the hunt to stop falling fowl of it, but it is completely broken as unless a police person goes with them then they have no idea what happens

Its not illegal to ride horses in a field with your dogs, never will be.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

I mean by that logic, the UK had a vote on EEC membership in 1975, which 67% overwhelmingly voted for. Why are we having another one on the basis on a party getting 36% of the vote?

Another vote on EEC membership?

 

[PJV3]

Tbf, we used to have an almost running joke about Dan Hodges in the old UKPoligaf thread where a few of us would routinely link to his articles and almost have to pre-empt the eye-rolls because they were often outlandish - but to be fair to him, he was basically the only pundit who called the election right. There was a lot of Crow eating on May 8th. I'll read the piece now, but between him and the Labour press team, I know who I trust more...

The only way he would actually know is having real access to Tory polling figures. Labour's were a bit better than the public ones but not as good as the Tory version.

It's Hodges so I'm not ruling it out.

 

[Tak3n]

Its not illegal to ride horses in a field with your dogs, never will be.

my point exactly it was a unworkable law, and ill conceived

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Inside the Milibunker - The Last Days of Ed

Interesting read.

Easy to write/say after the event but does sound like a bit of a shambles.

Wow, they just sat there and cut off balls (lol).

The hatred of him is even deeper then I thought

 

[FlammableD]

my point exactly it was a unworkable law, and ill conceived

So do it again properly, but that's not what this repeal is about.

 

[CyclopsRock]

The only way he would actually know is having real access to Tory polling figures. Labour's were a bit better than the public ones but not as good as the Tory version.

It's Hodges so I'm not ruling it out.

Well even the Tory polls weren't predicting a majority, but I don't think Dan's predictions were based on polling information he had but rather analysis of the political scene. A lot of people are doing post-hoc analysis to find out how it all works out, but he was actually doing it before the election. Maybe it was a fluke, but he - and Phil Collins at the Times, both of whom are/were Blairite Labour party members incidentally! - were the only ones who got it right so I dunno if it was.

 

[JonathanEx]

Now, did he get it right because he understood the public's feelings on certain issues, analysing the mood of the nation and reaction to things over the last five years or because he thinks Ed Miliband is the worst human being alive and nobody would vote for him?

 

[CyclopsRock]

Now, did he get it right because he understood the public's feelings on certain issues, analysing the mood of the nation and reaction to things over the last five years or because he thinks Ed Miliband is the worst human being alive and nobody would vote for him?

Aah, but what if the public's feelings on Ed is that he's the worst human being alive and they'd never vote for him? Hmm? HMM?.

 

[PJV3]

Well even the Tory polls weren't predicting a majority, but I don't think Dan's predictions were based on polling information he had but rather analysis of the political scene. A lot of people are doing post-hoc analysis to find out how it all works out, but he was actually doing it before the election. Maybe it was a fluke, but he - and Phil Collins at the Times, both of whom are/were Blairite Labour party members incidentally! - were the only ones who got it right so I dunno if it was.

Ah ok.

Was this prediction before the SNP stuff?
Because that seems to have blown the Ed campaign apart. I've avoided Hodges for a few years as his Blair obsession was getting a bit over the top.

Interested how he does it though.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Ah ok.

Was this prediction before the SNP stuff?
Because that seems to have blown the Ed campaign apart. I've avoided Hodges for a few years as his Blair obsession was getting a bit over the top.

Interested how he does it though.

Oh he's been banging this gong for years, but I don't remember him putting too much emphasis on the SNP really. For a taster, the "Rules" he mentions here are the kinds of things he's been going on about basically since 2010. This is the key passage, one I personally agree with but also gives away his Blairite core:

"The third rule is, in many ways, the most important. Politics is won from the centre. You cannot secure power by trying to build a bypass around the electorate. "

 

[cjp]

Whoops

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkB33oR3e4w

NSFW audio.

 

[killer_clank]

In Scotland there's a mandatory course you have to take at school called Modern Studies, which basically is just about different political systems, the UK Parliament and Scottish parliament's powers, different voting systems (It's where I first learned about AV and FPTP). They even went into other countries, like China and the US.

Is there nothing like that in English schools? I really liked Modern Studies.

 

[kitch9]

So do it again properly, but that's not what this repeal is about.

How?

 

[Mr. Sam]

In Scotland there's a mandatory course you have to take at school called Modern Studies, which basically is just about different political systems, the UK Parliament and Scottish parliament's powers, different voting systems (It's where I first learned about AV and FPTP). They even went into other countries, like China and the US.

Is there nothing like that in English schools? I really liked Modern Studies.

Not before I left five years ago. Sounds like it could be a real doss subject like IT, Media or RE though.

 

[Par Score]

A reminder for those holding up Dan Hodges as some sort of sage, he's currently scheduled to "streak naked down Whitehall in a Nigel Farage mask whilst singing Land of Hope and Glory" after predicting UKIP would get less than 6% of the vote.

He's just another bitter Blairite looking to shift Labour ever rightwards, the only good thing about him is his mother.

 

[CyclopsRock]

In Scotland there's a mandatory course you have to take at school called Modern Studies, which basically is just about different political systems, the UK Parliament and Scottish parliament's powers, different voting systems (It's where I first learned about AV and FPTP). They even went into other countries, like China and the US.

Is there nothing like that in English schools? I really liked Modern Studies.

There is - called PSHE (or it was when I was at school - "Personal, Social and Health Education") - but it was basically stuffed with so much random shit every year that in a not-so-long period of time it had a sylabus rivalling most undergraduate degrees. Wiki defines the course contents as...


Alcohol, smoking and drugs
Personal health
Bullying
Citizenship, democracy and human rights
Careers and the world of work
Personal finance
Family and relationships
Sex education

So as you can see, it has "Citizenship, democracy and human rights" but the lessons, in my experience, never really worked out because there were no exams which meant neither the teachers nor the pupils gave a shit. Around exams people just used to revise other subjects, and when it wasn't around exams it was just an extension of the playground-based pitched warfare between cliques - spattering fountain pen ink at each other, putting cartridges or folder paper into elastic band weapons, kicking pencil cases, playing a good, rousing game of "Knob" etc. I can safely say I never learnt a thing in PSHE.

Edit: To clarify, it was to teach about tne negative impact of bullying, not teaching how to bully.

 

[Mr. Sam]

A reminder for those holding up Dan Hodges as some sort of sage, he's currently scheduled to "streak naked down Whitehall in a Nigel Farage mask whilst singing Land of Hope and Glory" after predicting UKIP would get less than 6% of the vote.

I'm starting to think some of these politicians have really serious gambling problems.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

There is - called PSHE (or it was when I was at school - "Personal, Social and Health Education") - but it was basically stuffed with so much random shit every year that in a not-so-long period of time it had a sylabus rivalling most undergraduate degrees. Wiki defines the course contents as...


Alcohol, smoking and drugs
Personal health
Bullying
Citizenship, democracy and human rights
Careers and the world of work
Personal finance
Family and relationships
Sex education

So as you can see, it has "Citizenship, democracy and human rights" but the lessons, in my experience, never really worked out because there were no exams which meant neither the teachers nor the pupils gave a shit. Around exams people just used to revise other subjects, and when it wasn't around exams it was just an extension of the playground-based pitched warfare between cliques - spattering fountain pen ink at each other, putting cartridges or folder paper into elastic band weapons, kicking pencil cases, playing a good, rousing game of "Knob" etc. I can safely say I never learnt a thing in PSHE.

Edit: To clarify, it was to teach about tne negative impact of bullying, not teaching how to bully.

Our PSE lessons were taught* by our gym teacher.


*he'd sit there and read the paper.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Our PSE lessons were taught* by our gym teacher.


*he'd sit there and read the paper.

PSE you say? Ironically the "Health" bit of PSHE is the one bit he might actually have been able to help with.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

PSE you say? Ironically the "Health" bit of PSHE is the one bit he might actually have been able to help with.

Yeah, we didn't get an H for some reason :-(

 

[Deleted member 231381]

I don't think Hodges got it right out of any kind of predictive wisdom. He just hates Miliband and his predictions mimicked his desires, in the same way Ashdown is now having to eat a hat.

 

[CyclopsRock]

I don't think Hodges got it right out of any kind of predictive wisdom. He just hates Miliband and his predictions mimicked his desires, in the same way Ashdown is now having to eat a hat.

I dunno if that's really true. I mean, he obviously thought Miliband was crap but that's very different to hating him, and thinking he's crap is absolutely a decent reason to think they won't do well (which is to say that lots of people hate Blair but not nearly as many think he was crap - with Miliband it seems to be the other way around). He made the points about Miliband being unelectable and the Tory lead on the economy ages ago and for ages, and tbh I think the results have largely validated that appraisal.

 

[jimbobsmells]

Never heard of PSE (with or without an H). When did they bring that in?

 

[CyclopsRock]

Never heard of PSE (with or without an H). When did they bring that in?

Start of the millenium according to Wiki. NULABOUR.

I remember once we watched a documentary called, and about, "Nuts" with a talking cowboy peanut.

 

[RobotNinjaHornets]

Never heard of PSE (with or without an H). When did they bring that in?

It's been around for at least since I was in school 10 years ago

 

[Dirtyshubb]

Never heard of PSE (with or without an H). When did they bring that in?

Well im 30 so it has been around at least 15 years when (I think) my PSHE lessons started at school, not sure when they originally started though.

 

[Atrophis]

Is it just a fancy name for general studies?

 

[jimbobsmells]

Thanks guys. Must have just missed (escaped?) it's introduction.

 

[Nicktendo86]

Page 75 (on 100 posts per page) fella. Nice to see you back.

Thanks. My god, I knew there would be a meltdown but MY GOD.

Watching ukip implode is now very entertaining.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Is it just a fancy name for general studies?

We only did General Studies during sixth form - I think PSHE was meant to be a Y7-11 version.

 

[Nicktendo86]

I dunno if that's really true. I mean, he obviously thought Miliband was crap but that's very different to hating him, and thinking he's crap is absolutely a decent reason to think they won't do well (which is to say that lots of people hate Blair but not nearly as many think he was crap - with Miliband it seems to be the other way around). He made the points about Miliband being unelectable and the Tory lead on the economy ages ago and for ages, and tbh I think the results have largely validated that appraisal.

There were a few of us making similar points for months, the polls made no sense. No party has won whilst being so behind as labour were on the economy and leadership.

There were odd signs as well such as an ITV comres poll a few weeks before the election suggesting the Tories could take all lib dems west country seats, turns out that was accurate and a brilliant strategy.

I think the Tory plan is now starting to become clear. A first 100 day blitz of legislation and reform whilst the opposition are in disarray, get the EU ref out early (we will vote to stay in, and by a large margin) Dave will then announce he will step down allowing Osbourne to fight 2020. Vote share will go down, labour will improve but redrawn boundaries will return a larger Tory majority.

 

[Tak3n]

There were a few of us making similar points for months, the polls made no sense. No party has won whilst being so behind as labour were on the economy and leadership.

There were odd signs as well such as an ITV comres poll a few weeks before the election suggesting the Tories could take all lib dems west country seats, turns out that was accurate and a brilliant strategy.

I think the Tory plan is now starting to become clear. A first 100 day blitz of legislation and reform whilst the opposition are in disarray, get the EU ref out early (we will vote to stay in, and by a large margin) Dave will then announce he will step down allowing Osbourne to fight 2020. Vote share will go down, labour will improve but redrawn boundaries will return a larger Tory majority.

Lets be honest, we will never vote to leave the EU (even though I personally would like to) as every business the length and breadth of Britain will be coming out soon with the Sky falling in and mass redundancies the like we have never seen stories

and if there is one thing that panics people is losing their jobs, I expect we will even get these huge companies with 25,000+ employees telling us they will up roots and leave the day after if we vote to leave....

I am all for reasoned debate on it, but it will be about lies, lies and more lies from both sides

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Not to mention almost every single popular politician is pro-eu.

 

[Mr Git]

We didn't have PSE / PSHE or any variant at school. I did go to a Catholic school though and their mandatory subject was Catholicism, lol.

 

[Kelthink]

Hee hee:

So, I'm not quite understanding what's going on with UKIP leadership? Farage resigned, they didn't accept his resignation, and now they want him out? It seems like the beef is more with the party brass rather than Farage himself, or was the resignation/nonacceptance just deliberate showmanship?

There's quite a bit here.

A lot to quote, but in short: an hilarious mess.

 

[mclem]

Start of the millenium according to Wiki. NULABOUR.

I did PSE at school in the 90s. AKA the Wednesday Morning Dossabout.


Edit: It's perhaps paraphrased rather than an explicit quote, but I thought this line from the Guardian liveblog was incredible.

He says, having resigned last Friday, Farage should have stayed resigned, at least until the autumn.

 

[Nicktendo86]

God I remember PSE coming in about... My year 9 which would have been about 2000. Biggest waste of time since RE.

 

[CyclopsRock]

God I remember PSE coming in about... My year 9 which would have been about 2000. Biggest waste of time since RE.

I loved RE. I remember our teacher - an old, excitable Australian man who used to talk frequently about his crush on Michelle from Neighbours back when she was about 13 - once playing "devils advocate" and forcing us to argue against gassing jews and involuntary euthanasia of the elderly.

He got more than he bargained for when half the class agreed with him tbh.

 

[kitch9]

Independent: 'It might be harder to scrap the Human Rights Act than the government thinks. Here's why:'


Save us Based SNP.

This is why people need to stop freaking out at every proposal or idea that gets floated.

 

[PJV3]

This is why people need to stop freaking out at every proposal or idea that gets floated.

Manifesto commitment.

But yeah, I started to relax when the Anglo-irish accord was brought up. Even if they manage to convince others it's going to end up virtually identical.

 

[Tak3n]

Noooooo

My favourite thread for a long time is dying I have loved it in here for the past month, really sad to see people are moving on

back OT

I see Carney is calling for a early EU referendum and the EU are stating there is no room for manoeuvre on UK demands, so what will happen as Cameron himself said if they did not his demands he would campaign for us to leave