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[tomtom94]

Didn't he add the British Obama stuff to Wikipedia himself?

My moneys on tax avoidance. So to speak.

*Grant Shapps joke goes here*

 

[Crispy75]

If he was a garage DJ in the 90s then my money's on drugs and/or sex

 

[PJV3]

I don't want to come over as a cunt, and I think that figure is disgraceful, however as a proportion of the rental market, 42000 is tiny

the solution is not just to keep paying more and more benefits, as all that does is fuel rent increases

I'm not arguing for anymore property owner benefit either. These are the people who got evicted, how many more are struggling by the skin of their noses?

Property owner benefit is coming down and rents are still going up.

 

[Tillbo]

If so then it's wrongly - I've seen him on question time plenty and he is a lightweight. He would not do well in a campaign.

Agreed, but when the press is apparently doorstepping not just his mother, but his girlfriend's parents and even her 102-year old grandmother you can sympathise with his decision.

 

[Tak3n]

So...Nicola Sturgeon just got schooled..... Cameron has agreed to smith proposal for Scotland (no surprise) she has asked him to consider more devolution, he has agreed to consider each proposal.....

LOL yeah ok Nicola....of course he will.....consider it!

 

[Tak3n]

Agreed, but when the press is apparently doorstepping not just his mother, but his girlfriend's parents and even her 102-year old grandmother you can sympathise with his decision.

don't be fooled, they just picked apart his statement, and like Dan Jarvis it goes on about how 'right now' is not the right time....

they are playing the long game, nothing more, nothing less

 

[Tak3n]

I'm not arguing for anymore property owner benefit either. These are the people who got evicted, how many more are struggling by the skin of their noses?

Property owner benefit is coming down and rents are still going up.

that will always happen, until there is a levelling off, I know it must hurt, and fuck me what a shitty thing to have to go through, but there will be a levelling off as rents outstrip demand, especially with a further cap coming in...

it will take a generation of shit to achieve it though

 

[Par Score]

the solution is not just to keep paying more and more benefits, as all that does is fuel rent increases

Yep, we need a properly regulated renting market, with tough controls and price caps.

don't be fooled, they just picked apart his statement, and like Dan Jarvis it goes on about how 'right now' is not the right time....

they are playing the long game, nothing more, nothing less

Exactly. They see 2020 as a lost cause with Boris Johnson absolutely walking it.

Better to keep their powder dry for 2025, when a disillusioned public, bored/shocked by the reality of a Johnson led Tory government, will be ready to give Labour a proper hearing again.

 

[FlammableD]

Yep, we need a properly regulated renting market, with tough controls and price caps.



Exactly. They see 2020 as a lost cause with Boris Johnson absolutely walking it.

Better to keep their powder dry for 2025, when a disillusioned public, bored/shocked by the reality of a Johnson led Tory government, will be ready to give Labour a proper hearing again.

Fuck, another 5 years after this 5?

 

[Tak3n]

Fuck, another 5 years after this 5?

it amazes me the line coming out of Labour TBH, the tories could well and truly fuck something up, and of course their officials would never admit, but Alan Johnson started the 10 year campaign, and the two front runners have pulled out, so to me it looks like a unofficial acceptance of a 2020 defeat

 

[jimbobsmells]

1997 proves they don't have to give up. A win for Boris is by no means a cake walk.

 

[DBT85]

1997 proves they don't have to give up. A win for Boris is by no means a cake walk.

That all depends on whether you think people pay attention or if its a popularity contest. People know Boris because he put him self about before he was London Mayor and during the Olympics. They can connect with him more than any others because he lets them.

I've little doubt that the first election with Boris on the ticket will be the biggest turnout in years, both with people trying to get him in and people who just think he's actually a bumbling idiot trying to keep him out. I'm also confident that he'll win if its the 2020, provided the Tories don't actually make the NHS vanish in 5 years and everything else.

Labour are in disarray and with the new boundaries the Tories could be in power for another 10 years from today quite easily.

 

[N7Commander95]

1997 proves they don't have to give up. A win for Boris is by no means a cake walk.

I agree, plus we are already into a Government who are proposing two seriously damaging measures. I mean damaging to them

If we leave the EU due to a referendum, the financial fallout that will probably happen for a couple of years after, plus the loss of several major business and of course the utter rejection of the idea of Britian by Scotland will not look good for a General Election.

If we get rid of the Human Rights Act, then Scotland goes apeshit and the conservatives open a whole can of worms with Ireland.

Like, I think people are seriously overestimating the inevitability of Conservative re-election

 

[Black Republican]

So Tristam Hunt now saying labour did overspend..... Mixed messages across the board

Haha Hunt is getting clowned

Tristram Hunt has less charisma than Ed

And has failed to answer two questions

Jesus wept

Tristam Hunt is a fucking waste of space. Can't answer shit.

man, what the fuck is happening down in Labour, no one was being groomed as a potential leader after 5 years of Cammy? damn son. starting to think Labour just wants to see the

Spoiler

world

party burn

And Chuka bailed out? bahaha

 

[Par Score]

As long as the boundary reforms go through, and BoJo is elected as Cameron's successor, I don't see anything other than a solid Tory majority in 2020.

There will be too many seats with too entrenched a majority for Labour to make anything like the gains it needs, short of some unseen catastrophe.

 

[kmag]

So...Nicola Sturgeon just got schooled..... Cameron has agreed to smith proposal for Scotland (no surprise) she has asked him to consider more devolution, he has agreed to consider each proposal.....

LOL yeah ok Nicola....of course he will.....consider it!

schooled. Yeah right. Of course they were going to accept the Smith commission, everybody knew that, it's fucking less that the Conservatives themselves were proposing prior to it. There's nothing in the Smith commission report they'd find remotely objectionable.

Half the stuff Sturgeon is asking him to consider over an above the Smith commission was in the Conservative submission to Smith. For all the Tories many faults, the fact they're not reliant on Scottish MP's like Labour were means they're far more open to further devolution than Labour were

Here's the key things from the Tories submission to Smith, which was based on their own Strathclyde commission

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY OF
KEY RECOMMENDATIONS
Empowering the Scottish people to shape Scotland within the security of a United Kingdom sits at the very heart of what it means to be a modern Scottish Conservative.
Everything we propose in this report is aimed at strengthening our ties and reinforcing our relationships.

The Scottish Parliament is a powerful body. It is responsible for the large majority of domestic spending in Scotland, running the health service, Scottish education,
policing and criminal justice, as well as many more areas of publiclife. Our proposals point to a strengthened Scottish Parliament in a strong United Kingdom.

Financial
• The Scottish Parliament should become responsible for setting rates and bands of income tax throughout Scotland.
• A new Scottish Fiscal Commission should be created, independent of Government,
and should be charged with producing official macroeconomic and fiscal forecasts in
Scotland.
• Scottish versions of the Personal Tax Statements should be issued by HMRC, highlighting taxes under the control of the Scottish Parliament.
• Responsibility for the state pension should remain with the UK.
• There is a case for devolving housing benefit and attendance allowance; additionally there is a case for conferring on the Scottish Parliament the power to supplement welfare benefits legislated for at UK level.

Parliamentary and Governmental Reform
• New rules should be considered by the Scottish Parliament to improve legislative scrutiny with stronger checks and balances without a Second Chamber – for
instance providing for Chairs of key Committees to come from the Opposition.
• Senior civil servants from Scotland, as part of their career progression, should be expected (and supported) to serve in other Departments of State in the rest of the United Kingdom.
• The centralisation of powers from local to central government should be reversed and real devolution should be given to individuals with a greater role for civic society and local government.

The Future
• A Committee of all the Parliaments and Assemblies of the United Kingdom should be
created to consider the developing role of the United Kingdom, its Parliaments and
Assemblies and their respective powers, representation and financing

Smith Commission Highlights

• The Scottish parliament will have complete power to set income tax rates and bands.

• Holyrood will receive a proportion of the VAT raised in Scotland, amounting to the first 10 percentage points of the standard rate (ie with the current standard VAT rate of 20%, Scotland will 50% of the receipts), but cannot influence the UK’s overall UK rate.

• It will have increased borrowing powers, to be agreed with the UK government, to support capital investment and ensure budgetary stability.

• UK legislation will state that the Scottish parliament and Scottish government are permanent institutions. The parliament will also be given powers over how it is elected and run.

• Holyrood will have power to extend the vote to 16- and 17-year-olds, allowing them to vote in the 2016 Scottish parliamentary election.

• It will have control over a number of benefits including disability living allowance, the personal independence payment, winter fuel payments and the housing elements of universal credit, including the under-occupancy charge (bedroom tax).

• The Scottish parliament will also have new powers to make discretionary payments in any area of welfare without the need to obtain prior permission from department for work and pensions.

• It will have all powers of support for unemployed people through employment programmes, mainly delivered at present through the Work Programme.

• It will have control over air passenger duty charged on people flying from Scottish airports.

• Responsibility for the management of the crown estate’s economic assets in Scotland, including the crown estates’s seabed and mineral and fishing rights, and the revenue generated from these assets, will be transferred to the Scottish parliament.

• The licensing of onshore oil and gas extraction underlying Scotland will be devolved to the Scottish parliament.

• The Scottish government will have power to allow public sector operators to bid for rail franchises funded and specified by Scottish ministers.

• The block grant from the UK government to Scotland will continue to be determined via the operation of the Barnett formula. New rules to define how it will be adjusted at the point when powers are transferred and thereafter will be agreed by the Scottish and UK governments and put in place prior to the powers coming into force. These rules will ensure that neither the Scottish nor UK governments will lose or gain financially from the act of transferring a power.

• MPs representing constituencies across the whole of the UK will continue to decide the UK’s budget, including income tax.

• The Scottish and UK governments will draw up and agree a memorandum of understanding to ensure that devolution is not detrimental to UK-wide critical national infrastructure in relation to matters such as defence and security, oil and gas and energy.

The Draft Bill failed to enact a couple of the Smith proposals, most notably the power over benefits. The Tories don't have an issue with that according to their own submissions.

Schooled indeed.

 

[War Peaceman]

Chuka's rubbish as you'd expect of a Trent alumni, but I think he would have been a good interim candidate.

I really think the shock of defeat has inflated the perspective of Tory chances. Being the incumbent has advantages but there is five years for things to go wrong. There's already dissent forming around the hra.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

hra replacement is just a sop to the right anyway, I doubt cameron even wants or expects the bill to be passed

 

[Chozolore]

Landlords charge a rent, people who can not afford that rent move in with the help of housing benefit..... if the Government does not start restricting housing benefit all landlords do is keep increasing their prices as they know the shortfall will be picked up by the tax payer...

of course there are more market forces at play, like shortfall of housing, but in the cruellest sense, if you can not afford a house you should not live there.... but in a caring society we would continue to pay their rent...

the solution is somewhere in the middle

Didn't we used to have council housing?

 

[PJV3]

The HRA is interesting, no work by civil servants has been done on it, so now all these issues are coming up that could throw a spanner in the works. It's even possible that breaking the link with the Strasbourg court could mean being thrown out of the European council.

There's an international treaty and the constitution of Scotland to deal with.
I assumed the policy was further along than it actually is, this is going in the long grass for Cameron's successor to deal with.

It should keep Gove busy, which is a positive thing even for the tories.

 

[CharmingCharlie]

Didn't we used to have council housing?

Yeah but it was all sold off for chump change mainly to private landlords and councils were restricted from using the proceeds to build more social housing. This country needs low rent good quality social housing but that might be problematic for private landlords.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Yeah but it was all sold off for chump change mainly to private landlords and councils were restricted from using the proceeds to build more social housing.

They weren't really, they just couldn't use to the proceeds to build more houses if they had debt.

However, look at how interesting this is:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...d-Douglas-Carswell-could-tear-Ukip-apart.html

Not the article, the map - flick the results to show the winners and notice how clustered they are - big lumps of red, yellow, blue etc. Then look at the 2nd places and see how massively spread out they are. Pretty interesting imo - and (as lovely Fraser points out in that piece if you read it) how UKIP are actually popular across the country (except Scotland).

 

[PJV3]

They weren't really, they just couldn't use to the proceeds to build more houses if they had debt.

However, look at how interesting this is:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...d-Douglas-Carswell-could-tear-Ukip-apart.html

Not the article, the map - flick the results to show the winners and notice how clustered they are - big lumps of red, yellow, blue etc. Then look at the 2nd places and see how massively spread out they are. Pretty interesting imo - and (as lovely Fraser points out in that piece if you read it) how UKIP are actually popular across the country (except Scotland).

On the Farage Carswell thing, carswell didn't get 4 million votes, it's a strange set up.

I don't like UKIP but the system really likes fucking it over, which isn't cool at all.

 

[War Peaceman]

They weren't really, they just couldn't use to the proceeds to build more houses if they had debt.

However, look at how interesting this is:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...d-Douglas-Carswell-could-tear-Ukip-apart.html

Not the article, the map - flick the results to show the winners and notice how clustered they are - big lumps of red, yellow, blue etc. Then look at the 2nd places and see how massively spread out they are. Pretty interesting imo - and (as lovely Fraser points out in that piece if you read it) how UKIP are actually popular across the country (except Scotland).

It is not really a surprise. Nobody really represents the working class. Ukip sort of kind of does. Trying to out ukip ukip will never work but trying to appeal to these voters through more working class friendly a policies and presentation can. Although some of their vote is just a protest against the establishment.

 

[operon]

The HRA thing is looking like another election promise, that will largely be forgotten talked about the next time someone gets off in the daily mail but largely forgotten.

Do people think Boris I can't keep my lad in my trousers will cake walk pm, may looks more appealing and that's saying a lot

 

[anonymous_abc]

The HRA thing is looking like another election promise, that will largely be forgotten talked about the next time someone gets off in the daily mail but largely forgotten.

Do people think Boris I can't keep my lad in my trousers will cake walk pm, may looks more appealing and that's saying a lot

I cannot stand Boris he is insufferable. I just don't understand why that baffoon is so popular.

Spoiler

It's because he is a baffoon, I know...

 

[PJV3]

The HRA thing is looking like another election promise, that will largely be forgotten talked about the next time someone gets off in the daily mail but largely forgotten.

Do people think Boris I can't keep my lad in my trousers will cake walk pm, may looks more appealing and that's saying a lot

It's going to be Osborne, he's meant to be the brains of the operation apparently.

Boris is a pretend Baffoon, I'm not sure what that says about London to be honest.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Cameron has already promoted Osborne to deputy leader so that he can get used to answering questions at the despatch box too

 

[Hasney]

I don't think Boris can cakewalk PM as that will require a lot of support from within, but compared to Osbourne and May, I bet he'd get more of a public vote. He actually comes across as a human compared to those two.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Yup. Osborne is the sole reason the tories got in five years ago though - if it wasn't for him Brown would have won.

 

[PJV3]

Yup. Osborne is the sole reason the tories got in five years ago though - if it wasn't for him Brown would have won.

He's the one who makes decisions about appointments(again apparently) Cameron is basically his gimp.

 

[Atrophis]

Chuka's rubbish as you'd expect of a Trent alumni, but I think he would have been a good interim candidate.

Trent has a history of producing rubbish MPs?

 

[Hasney]

He's the one who makes decisions about appointments(again apparently) Cameron is basically his gimp.

That would make sense and it really works as a double act. I don't think people would vote for Osbourne but Cameron is the human side of it.

 

[operon]

Yup. Osborne is the sole reason the tories got in five years ago though - if it wasn't for him Brown would have won.

He's the one who makes decisions about appointments(again apparently) Cameron is basically his gimp.

He's the best of a bad bunch

 

[Kuros]

What's the deal with Burnham and Mid Staffs?

 

[Tak3n]

What's the deal with Burnham and Mid Staffs?

He is toxic and still to this day refuses to answer questions on it

An estimated 400-1,200 patients died as a result of poor care over the 50 months between January 2005 and March 2009 at Stafford hospital, a small district general hospital in Staffordshire

Andy Burnham was Health Secretary at the time and he blocked a public enquiry into the scandal

Labour was accused of insulting the victims of the Mid Staffs hospital scandal last night after its health spokesman suggested it would have been better if the report into their deaths had never been published.

Andy Burnham said events had borne out his view that the benefits of a public inquiry had not outweighed the reputational damage to the hospital

 

[PJV3]

He is toxic and still to this day refuses to answer questions on it

An estimated 400-1,200 patients died as a result of poor care over the 50 months between January 2005 and March 2009 at Stafford hospital, a small district general hospital in Staffordshire

Andy Burnham was Health Secretary at the time and he blocked a public enquiry into the scandal

I thought Alan Johnson was there for most of that period, Burnham caught the end of it. Johnson got the warnings, ignored them/didn't realise the seriousness and Burnham walked into a clusterfuck.

 

[Yen]

I know nothing about the man (at all*), but I hope Labour give the leadership to Sir Keir Starmer, purely because of his great name. Sounds like he would've been a Cabinet minister in the 1930s. I don't even know how to pronounce "Keir".

*judging by his totally apolitical wiki, he seems decent

 

[CyclopsRock]

Oh, also, I only just saw the top of this page - all the rumours appear to be that the Chukka story comes from another leadership faction, not the Tories. Leaked to right wing papers for obvious reasons but now wouldn't be their ideal time to fire if they'd sourced it themselves so I'm inclined to believe that it's from another camp.

 

[PJV3]

I know nothing about the man (at all*), but I hope Labour give the leadership to Sir Keir Starmer, purely because of his great name. Sounds like he would've been a Cabinet minister in the 1930s. I don't even know how to pronounce "Keir".

*judging by his totally apolitical wiki, he seems decent

I just mentioned him in the uk politics thread, it's a bit of an indictment of the party when we're looking at an MP in his first week at Westminster.

 

[Yen]

I just mentioned him in the uk politics thread, it's a bit of an indictment of the party when we're looking at an MP in his first week at Westminster.

I think the next Labour PM won't have been elected in 2005 or 2010.

 

[PJV3]

I think the next Labour PM won't have been elected in 2005 or 2010.

At this rate they may as well get the bog cleaner from Labour HQ to stand.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

If so then it's wrongly - I've seen him on question time plenty and he is a lightweight. He would not do well in a campaign.

Agreed.

 

[CyclopsRock]

At this rate they may as well get the bog cleaner from Labour HQ to stand.

I dunno, I can't see Kinnock wanting to return to front line politics at his age.

 

[PJV3]

I dunno, I can't see Kinnock wanting to return to front line politics at his age.

I'm gonna pretend I didn't laugh, solidarity etc.

Thinking of Keir Starmer, leader of the party before giving his maiden speech, slightly unusual.

 

[King_Moc]

What's the deal with Burnham and Mid Staffs?

When Labour were last in government, Burnham specifically ignored multiple warnings that more people than you would expect were dying at mid staffs hospital. 81 warnings he received, 81 he ignored.

If he's made party leader, I leave the party, as I suspect do many others.

 

[Tak3n]

When Labour were last in government, Burnham specifically ignored multiple warnings that more people than you would expect were dying at mid staffs hospital. 81 warnings he received, 81 he ignored.

If he's made party leader, I leave the party, as I suspect do many others.

And don't forget the tories will be desperate for him to win, they will tear him apart... every PMQ's will be the same

"here stands the minister who is responsible for Mid-Stafs"

 

[Nicktendo86]

When Labour were last in government, Burnham specifically ignored multiple warnings that more people than you would expect were dying at mid staffs hospital. 81 warnings he received, 81 he ignored.

If he's made party leader, I leave the party, as I suspect do many others.

He also threatened to sue Hunt for saying that he tried to cover up another hospital scandal as well, racked up fees and didn't go through with it.

I am amazed that he is still shadow health sec. He has so much baggage he would be a disaster.

 

[PJV3]

I've forgotten the Timeline exactly, but it was Alan Johnson who was more responsible for Mid Staffs. Burnham walked into the car crash, so to speak.

Still, he handled it badly and I wouldn't want him as leader either.

 

[Nicktendo86]

Jim Murphy has survived his confidence vote but has resigned anyway and has taken a swipe at Len McCluskey on the way out.