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[Blood Borne]

I'm not sure how a piece of tech whose entire purpose is to help cut costs associated with human workers is going to generate more jobs. It may create some more service jobs for those with the skills to repair and maintain said kiosks but its not like McDonald's is going to hire back everyone that the kiosks displace out of the goodness of their hearts.

You sound like a leftist. Leftist operate from a place of envy, therefore it makes them myopic and can't see the big picture. Your eyes are just fixated on McDonalds profit rather than looking outwards and around.

The kiosk has a net positive on job creation. You now have MANY companies that are designing and creating kiosks, these companies have now CREATED jobs such as software engineers, hardware engineers, marketing, hr, etc. Then you have factories all over the world that are now manufacturing these kiosks, these factories have now CREATED new jobs.

Even at McDonalds, new jobs are being created such as, maintenance and service engineers, software team that creates the ui, updates the menu, design the graphics and whatnot, networking jobs, etc.

The amount of jobs created all over the world because of the kiosks is numerous. We don't have the intricate financial details of McDonalds but just because a company implements tech doesn't necessarily mean their cutting costs, sometimes it costs them more but hoping the tech will help them gain even more revenue and off set the cost. Mcdonalds might be hoping these kiosks help them sell even more burgers, due to its ease and speed. People can even place their order and it will be ready before they get there.

Whenever automation replaces a physical labour job, it means that society has gotten richer, we are now more advanced. Please always think of the big picture and let's not regress to being luddites.

 

[Blood Borne]

Because ATMs replace everything a banker can do right.

Sounds like you don’t even go to bank enough to know.

The principle is still the same. You can withdraw cash from the bank but you choose not to. Had it been more people chose to use the bank rather than the atm, banks would have hired even more bankers to give cash to customers. You're a hypocrite.

Also, eventually, banks will introduce 'kiosks' where it will be able to provide almost all services that a banker can provide you and I'm pretty sure you'll still use the kiosks. So please, stop virtue signalling.

 

[rokkerkory]

The principle is still the same. You can withdraw cash from the bank but you choose not to. Had it been more people chose to use the bank rather than the atm, banks would have hired even more bankers to give cash to customers. You're a hypocrite.

Also, eventually, banks will introduce 'kiosks' where it will be able to provide almost all services that a banker can provide you and I'm pretty sure you'll still use the kiosks. So please, stop virtue signalling.

Show me that magic 8 ball you got to predict the future.

 

[ipukespiders]

Yeah I’m a fan of the kiosks but since going keto McD’s isn’t really an option for me, unfortunately.

You’ve got to wonder though how long it’ll be before we have fully automated McD restaurants.

mcdoubles x 2 and toss the buns

 

[Blood Borne]

Show me that magic 8 ball you got to predict the future.

What the hell are you talking about?

Also, if you've ever shopped online rather than going to the store, you're also a hypocrite. Your phone/ PC is pretty much a 'kiosk'.

 

[BANGS]

You do know that if you use the atm rather than going to the bank then you're a virtue signalling hypocrite.

I wonder what's worse for the workers. Not going there in protest because they've been replace by robots, or not going there at all before that and therefor not supporting the workers at all, causing them to be replaced by robots. I feel like the answer should be so easy...

 

[Aintitcool]

I find it strange that macdonalds is trying to say people spend more on kiosks... I dont think they do. In macdonalds they used to ask you personaly if you wanted more or extra. A person suggesting stuff to you in person will always generate more sales than a kiosk ad suggesting you spend more money.


I don't believe them basically. Unless its like europe now and they never ask if you want more or supersize.

 

[Dunki]

I find it strange that macdonalds is trying to say people spend more on kiosks... I dont think they do. In macdonalds they used to ask you personaly if you wanted more or extra. A person suggesting stuff to you in person will always generate more sales than a kiosk add suggesting you spend more money.


I dont believe them basically. Unless its like europe now and they never ask if you want more or supersize.

Since they have Kiosks I will eat more often there so I do not have to deal with people I do not feel pressure when I chose what I want on the menu and I do not feel pressure to be to slow. Yes I am thinking way too much about these thinks so I guess in this regard I am socially awkward^^

 

[InterMusketeer]

I like the kiosks because they keep me from having to interact with real people.

 

[Super Mario]

I guess this is a new concept to people. This is the first time in history that a skill-less job has been automated. What will people do for work now that the cotton gin is here?

I find it strange that macdonalds is trying to say people spend more on kiosks... I dont think they do. In macdonalds they used to ask you personaly if you wanted more or extra. A person suggesting stuff to you in person will always generate more sales than a kiosk ad suggesting you spend more money.

I don't believe them basically. Unless its like europe now and they never ask if you want more or supersize.

I've seen this first hand. You have a consistent offer with a machine, and you open up new avenues. As an example, put a button on the side, how about bacon for $1? Here are some pictures of desserts, would you like one? It works.

 

[ilfait]

I fear automation because a McDonald's job is really good for a lot of kids while they study, teaches them great values and gives them a bit of pocket money.

There are much better uses of a human's time than working at McDonald's. This whole job creation philosophy is a horrible way to view life. Automation + a sane view of working together to achieve shared goals, of life in general, and a noble-savage-esque respect for the planet + rejecting any control that power/money-hungry individuals or conglomerates try to exert over us =

 

[infinitys_7th]

The "Fight for $15" went as expected

Yep.

Now kids and seniors have nowhere to work part-time for supplemental income. Not a lot of jobs high schoolers can do outside of minimum wage restaurant work on after school shifts.

 

[infinitys_7th]

There are much better uses of a human's time than working at McDonald's. This whole job creation philosophy is a horrible way to view life. Automation + a sane view of working together to achieve shared goals, of life in general, and a noble-savage-esque respect for the planet + rejecting any control that power/money-hungry individuals or conglomerates try to exert over us =

Don't forget population control. Realistically, any push for UBI is going to have to include control and regulation of reproduction.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Yep.

Now kids and seniors have nowhere to work part-time for supplemental income. Not a lot of jobs high schoolers can do outside of minimum wage restaurant work on after school shifts.

Inevitable. We've known for a decade that high skill jobs are the future.

 

[infinitys_7th]

Inevitable. We've known for a decade that high skill jobs are the future.

The point is that teens can't be expected to have skills for high skill jobs, and so needed these jobs to last. The "Fight for $15" stuff just got sped up getting rid of one of the only ways teens can make money.

 

[Vicetrailia]

The point is that teens can't be expected to have skills for high skill jobs, and so needed these jobs to last. The "Fight for $15" stuff just got sped up getting rid of one of the only ways teens can make money.

Adults have been taking those jobs since the recession. The campaign for $15 didn't do anything for automation. It's already the plan.

Teens more so work in grocery stores, clothes stores and small shops, but all of that is slowly changing.

 

[TDiddyLive]

For those that say the fight for $15 isn’t the reason for this...

http://money.cnn.com/2014/05/22/technology/innovation/fast-food-robot/index.html

Just google “McDonald’s invests in automation” and you’ll get plenty of articles pointing out they went all in once that campaign started.

 

[Atrus]

In many of these areas, the kiosk and mobile ordering has led to more employees being around than less. Its not just about lower labour costs but driving revenue and with the ease of ordering quickly, more orders are being taken and more staff are needed to get it all out asap.

You've got large uber eats orders, online order pickup, the cash till line for those paying cash, and then have to quickly fulfill the orders from multiple kiosks. I've never seen McD's as busy as after these were put in. Its a good change.

 

[Xiaoki]

Because ATMs replace everything a banker can do right.

Sounds like you don’t even go to bank enough to know.

Its still a service that was handled by a person before automation.

Hey, you can rationalize it in your head however you want but that wont change facts.

Back in the 60s people complained that ATMs would destroy bank teller jobs, but they didnt. The ATM is now a part of our everyday life and no one cares.

Progress moves forward everyday, at the obvious chagrin of luddites.

 

[CampbellzSoup]

McDonalds is a starter job you go to learn the foundations of a job...cleaning, customer service, answering to a supervisor, food preparing.

In NO WAY does McDonalds owe it to pay for a family with two kids if you work there. You should be more responsible if you have kids not expect your employeer to pay for you.

 

[Vicetrailia]

In many of these areas, the kiosk and mobile ordering has led to more employees being around than less. Its not just about lower labour costs but driving revenue and with the ease of ordering quickly, more orders are being taken and more staff are needed to get it all out asap.

You've got large uber eats orders, online order pickup, the cash till line for those paying cash, and then have to quickly fulfill the orders from multiple kiosks. I've never seen McD's as busy as after these were put in. Its a good change.

Uber is an example of new business though, and not really process replacement via automation. In time McDonalds will get efficient with that kiosks, but if they're growing now then they'll happily take the added labor.

 

[<+)O Robido O(+>]

Personally I can't wait til everything is automated. The less I have to deal with people, the better.

 

[KyanMehwulfe]

Do most McD's in the US not already have kiosks? I don't visit many but seems like most already have in Canada since late 2016... At least all the ones I go to. Even smaller rural cities.

That said, in general a lot of stores here do. Superstore and Save-On (grocery supermarkets) have since... 2011-12 or so... Often busier than the cashiers ;p A lot of pharmacies like Shoppers and London Drugs. I think McD's is the only fast food place that uses them everywhere tho.

Anyhow, this is why McD's is still the king. First to fast food ["premium"] coffee; first to kiosks; first to all-day breakfast haha.

 

[mcz117chief]

That is the problem with the whole minimum wage increase issue. No one wants to pay highschoolers $15/hr flip burgers or take orders. The higher the minimum wage goes the worse it is for teens to get their first job. This is one area I think we should move toward the system Australia uses with a sliding scale based on age. While their national minimum wage is over $18/hr a 16 year old would get paid $10/hr for a minimum wage job. I am pretty sure its percentage based on the age, so at 16 its like 50% and goes up each year until 21 where it reaches 100%, and the pay of the full time minimum for the job.

Man what a dream, I was paid $3,5 at my first job. Eastern Europe, baby! Now at my full time job I make about $5.

 

[Schattenjäger]

I can sign up for this
But self driving cars and trucks.. can’t

 

[nephilimdj]

I order all my kfc via there app, its cheaper

 

[newtypepilot]

we already have kiosks in mcds in Canada. From what I've seen, most people don't use them because they aren't that intuitive to use. The biggest drawback is that they don't take cash. There's an option to pay at counter, but that defeats the purpose of using a kiosk in the first place.

 

[jufonuk]

I like them but I don’t

Like as they can speed up orders
Don’t as they put people out of a job.
Yeah r maybe the people who used to serve can but moved to other roles like maintaining and cleaning the shop.
Either way wonder what automation is going to do to humanity in regards to workforce

 

[llien]

To me Kiosk means less waiting, actually. I cannot recall a case when I'd order not what I was going to order upfront.

 

[Nicktendo86]

They work ok in the UK, the system of ordering from a machine and getting a receipt then waiting for your number to be called is much more efficient than people lining up at tills and waiting for their order there, clogging up the whole line.

The biggest problem with it is they don't accept cash.

 

[TheShadowLord]

I like them but I don’t

Like as they can speed up orders
Don’t as they put people out of a job.
Yeah r maybe the people who used to serve can but moved to other roles like maintaining and cleaning the shop.
Either way wonder what automation is going to do to humanity in regards to workforce

Well McDonald's in some Asian countries are about to do delivery, so maybe they could that here in the US instead of firing people

 

[Gander]

I have to say my last couple trips to McDonald's have been super nice and faster then usual. I think for one reason or another it's already starting to have an impact.

 

[Justin9mm]

What, we've had these in all our McDonalds stores in Australia for quite a long time now, you guys are just introducing this?

 

[Justin9mm]

We've had these at least a couple years now I think.

A lot of people still go to the cashier, I like the Kiosk in certain situations like when I'm not really sure and can just take my time. Also you can order a large meal and then change the large coke to small and you can see how much the cost is reduced by ordering small if I don't feel like so much coke etc. It's quite good.

But if I know what I want, I won't bother and just go straight to the cashier.

 

[jufonuk]

Well McDonald's in some Asian countries are about to do delivery, so maybe they could that here in the US instead of firing people

Yeah but a few more years automated cars

 

[Greedings]

I don't eat fast food very often, so I much prefer kiosks. I hate queuing up, standing there um-ing and ah-ing while I figure out what I want...because I have no clue, and not everything is listed above the servers.

The kiosks I can choose what I want at leisure. Much nicer.

 

[manfestival]

We've had these at least a couple years now I think.

A lot of people still go to the cashier, I like the Kiosk in certain situations like when I'm not really sure and can just take my time. Also you can order a large meal and then change the large coke to small and you can see how much the cost is reduced by ordering small if I don't feel like so much coke etc. It's quite good.

But if I know what I want, I won't bother and just go straight to the cashier.

Kiosks have been in McDonalds at least a couple years now. Not in every store but in many stores. However, this whole thing is about how McDonalds finally has enough data to justify placing them in most if not all of their stores. I got this information from the store operators before I guess McDonalds decided to publicly announce it in this weird fashion.

 

[Ridcully]

I quite like the kiosks. They enable picky eaters.

 

[mckmas8808]

They need to fix their user interface.

I welcome the automation though. We absolutely don’t need to pay people to be fast food cashiers with today’s technology.

You do when someone doesn't know how to use said technology. There's no reason you should "want" to eliminate human jobs.

 

[TheMikado]

You do when someone doesn't know how to use said technology. There's no reason you should "want" to eliminate human jobs.

It's inefficient. Making jobs for the sake of making jobs isn't economically productive or efficient. That said automation is going to destroy the world as we know it much like the industrial revolution completely changed the look of modern society within 100 years.

 

[mckmas8808]

It's inefficient. Making jobs for the sake of making jobs isn't economically productive or efficient. That said automation is going to destroy the world as we know it much like the industrial revolution completely changed the look of modern society within 100 years.

It's not inefficient though. I'm not saying hire 10 cashiers at McDs at once. I'm saying there will be a sizable percentage of people that will NOT prefer to use these kiosks. And for those people hiring humans to put in the orders makes 100% sense.

There's no reason to get rid of all human jobs for automation when all your consumers don't even want it. Even self-check out areas in grocery stores has one cashier there for assistance.

 

[zumphry]

The "Fight for $15" went as expected

If you think this wasn’t going to happen regardless, you’re terribly naive.

 

[bucyou]

If you think this wasn’t going to happen regardless, you’re terribly naive.

Making assumptions again I see

 

[diablos991]

It's not inefficient though. I'm not saying hire 10 cashiers at McDs at once. I'm saying there will be a sizable percentage of people that will NOT prefer to use these kiosks. And for those people hiring humans to put in the orders makes 100% sense.

There's no reason to get rid of all human jobs for automation when all your consumers don't even want it. Even self-check out areas in grocery stores has one cashier there for assistance.

I’d be perfectly fine with a single person working at a McDonald’s to troubleshoot and be there for issues.

No need to staff the place like it is now if we have the technology to streamline things.

People should be working jobs that add value. No need to have people waiting their effort.

 

[TheMikado]

It's not inefficient though. I'm not saying hire 10 cashiers at McDs at once. I'm saying there will be a sizable percentage of people that will NOT prefer to use these kiosks. And for those people hiring humans to put in the orders makes 100% sense.

There's no reason to get rid of all human jobs for automation when all your consumers don't even want it. Even self-check out areas in grocery stores has one cashier there for assistance.

Definitely. There will always be a human element, just like there will always be human drivers of some sort even after autonomous cars. The market will ultimately define what is necessary and it will take some time to do it.

Just to give an example of something like automated elevators.

Here's a good article on its adoption:

https://www.npr.org/2015/07/31/427990392/remembering-when-driverless-elevators-drew-skepticism

HENN: Now, this was not the image the elevator industry wanted for its brand-new transportation device. So they added doors with safety bumpers, automatic stopping. And eventually, they created a driverless elevator. And this was in 1900. This was amazing. It was the Google car of its era. And people hated it.

GRAY: People walked in and looked and walked right back out. They would quickly step back out and try to find someone to say where's the operator?

HENN: But then, in 1945, elevator operators in New York went on strike. New York City ground to a halt. The strike costs New York a hundred million dollars in lost taxes. It prevented one and a half million office workers from getting to work. Building owners demanded a change. And the elevator industry decided they had to convince people to rethink what an elevator was.

GRAY: Early ads, they showed children pushing the buttons and grandma riding in the elevator car showing how safe this is.

HENN: And for the nervous rider there was a soothing voice piped out of speakers when you walked inside.

GRAY: This is an automatic elevator. Please press the button for the floor you desire.

HENN: And this voice directed you to the biggest calming device ever invented, a big red button that said, stop.

GRAY: It would say, you have pulled the emergency stop. If this is not an emergency, please push it back in. If this is an emergency, please use the phone.

HENN: And these innovations worked. Today, you can almost count the number of elevator operators in New York City using your fingers and toes. And the lessons here are being examined by Google's designers right now as they build their self-driving car. But there's one part of the elevator's history Google does not want to repeat. The automatic elevator was invented around 1900, but it took more than 50 years before the public became comfortable and automatic elevators became ubiquitous. Steve Henn, NPR News.

 

[Greedings]

Just to give an example of something like automated elevators.

Thanks for that post, fascinating. I'd never even considered the similarities, because I assume most people on this forum, like me, have never even encountered a non-automatic lift without it being in a movie, or something of a curiosity.

 

[mckmas8808]

Definitely. There will always be a human element, just like there will always be human drivers of some sort even after autonomous cars. The market will ultimately define what is necessary and it will take some time to do it.

Just to give an example of something like automated elevators.

Here's a good article on its adoption:

https://www.npr.org/2015/07/31/427990392/remembering-when-driverless-elevators-drew-skepticism

HENN: Now, this was not the image the elevator industry wanted for its brand-new transportation device. So they added doors with safety bumpers, automatic stopping. And eventually, they created a driverless elevator. And this was in 1900. This was amazing. It was the Google car of its era. And people hated it.

GRAY: People walked in and looked and walked right back out. They would quickly step back out and try to find someone to say where's the operator?

HENN: But then, in 1945, elevator operators in New York went on strike. New York City ground to a halt. The strike costs New York a hundred million dollars in lost taxes. It prevented one and a half million office workers from getting to work. Building owners demanded a change. And the elevator industry decided they had to convince people to rethink what an elevator was.

GRAY: Early ads, they showed children pushing the buttons and grandma riding in the elevator car showing how safe this is.

HENN: And for the nervous rider there was a soothing voice piped out of speakers when you walked inside.

GRAY: This is an automatic elevator. Please press the button for the floor you desire.

HENN: And this voice directed you to the biggest calming device ever invented, a big red button that said, stop.

GRAY: It would say, you have pulled the emergency stop. If this is not an emergency, please push it back in. If this is an emergency, please use the phone.

HENN: And these innovations worked. Today, you can almost count the number of elevator operators in New York City using your fingers and toes. And the lessons here are being examined by Google's designers right now as they build their self-driving car. But there's one part of the elevator's history Google does not want to repeat. The automatic elevator was invented around 1900, but it took more than 50 years before the public became comfortable and automatic elevators became ubiquitous. Steve Henn, NPR News.

Great post! The example is good, but not great though as there's more to restaurants than an elevator for obvious reasons. But the overall point stands. And people will be used to these new technologies as long as the tech companies understands that there will ALWAYS be a human factor to the tech succeeding. Ease it into the public and don't force it all at once. Make it an option and then phase out the old way after a while. A 20 year phase out is better than your example of a 50 year fight with automatic elevators.

On a slightly different subject, but it's related. Microsoft tried to do this with the always on Xbox One and the people rejected the idea upfront. And now MS sees that it was always going to be better by making it an option. Forcing people to do things they don't want usually doesn't work.

 

[zumphry]

Making assumptions again I see

I hope you don’t run a business.

 

[TheMikado]

Great post! The example is good, but not great though as there's more to restaurants than an elevator for obvious reasons. But the overall point stands. And people will be used to these new technologies as long as the tech companies understands that there will ALWAYS be a human factor to the tech succeeding. Ease it into the public and don't force it all at once. Make it an option and then phase out the old way after a while. A 20 year phase out is better than your example of a 50 year fight with automatic elevators.

On a slightly different subject, but it's related. Microsoft tried to do this with the always on Xbox One and the people rejected the idea upfront. And now MS sees that it was always going to be better by making it an option. Forcing people to do things they don't want usually doesn't work.

Well that's the crux of how adoption of technology works.

It's a pattern that has been done throughout history. Think about planes, trains, cars without horses, etc. People have always had this perspective. It just takes time to become accustomed to the new technology.
Its literally the same song and dance every time something new comes out.

The pack train entrepreneurs fought against better roads, because better roads would lead to wagons and coaches, thereby putting pack trains out of business. Stewart H. Holbrook, in The Story of American Railroads, discussed the reaction to railroads in the 1830's:

The coming of the railroad, and the rapidity with which it expanded during the 1830's, found a public wholly unprepared, and pretty much confused. What, thoughtful men now asked one another, was a railroad? There had been little thinking on the subject, hence there was no philosophy of railroads. The canal builders and operators, of course, simply damned the new method of transportation on every count they could think of. It was dangerous. It wouldn't work. It was merely a clever method by which smart scoundrels could steal your money more or less legally by selling you worthless stock. The canal men had something there, for a terrible amount of stock did prove worthless. The railroad was also against nature. And, finally, it was against God; and many a preacher found friends among canal and stagecoach men when he opened up full blast on this new curse that a tireless Satan had promulgated to try all Christian men.​

But like all technology, its adoption becomes commonplace to the point where people cannot believe in modern times that people ever had such thoughts about it.

 

[mckmas8808]

Well that's the crux of how adoption of technology works.

It's a pattern that has been done throughout history. Think about planes, trains, cars without horses, etc. People have always had this perspective. It just takes time to become accustomed to the new technology.
Its literally the same song and dance every time something new comes out.

The pack train entrepreneurs fought against better roads, because better roads would lead to wagons and coaches, thereby putting pack trains out of business. Stewart H. Holbrook, in The Story of American Railroads, discussed the reaction to railroads in the 1830's:

The coming of the railroad, and the rapidity with which it expanded during the 1830's, found a public wholly unprepared, and pretty much confused. What, thoughtful men now asked one another, was a railroad? There had been little thinking on the subject, hence there was no philosophy of railroads. The canal builders and operators, of course, simply damned the new method of transportation on every count they could think of. It was dangerous. It wouldn't work. It was merely a clever method by which smart scoundrels could steal your money more or less legally by selling you worthless stock. The canal men had something there, for a terrible amount of stock did prove worthless. The railroad was also against nature. And, finally, it was against God; and many a preacher found friends among canal and stagecoach men when he opened up full blast on this new curse that a tireless Satan had promulgated to try all Christian men.​

But like all technology, its adoption becomes commonplace to the point where people cannot believe in modern times that people ever had such thoughts about it.

Yes and yet the train was an optionable way to transport yourself from one place to another. It's not like they just stopped building roads you know? That's the right way to introduce a new technology into society.