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Media Create Sales: 02/09 - 02/15
- Thread starter PantherLotus
- Start date
Flying_Phoenix
Banned
donny2112 said:
I'm honestly not surprised the PSP version is outperforming the Wii version. I mean the PSP now probably has twice if not three times the userbase size the did when re-releasing the game.
Tenchu IV, as well as Tatsunoko vs Capcom's sloppy arcade performance, just further confirms me that it's more so the publishers fault why the Wii games are underperforming rather then the Wii userbase.
donny2112 said:
I suspect it will 2013 or even 2014. None of the console maker are eager to start the new generation, because :
- X360 are just starting to be profitable and it is doing well. Doing a new gen will drive up cost a lot.
- PS3's total R&D are still in the negative, and Sony (the whole company, not just gaming) are not doing well. It is better for Sony to delay PS4 launch as much as possible.
- Wii are doing very well (#1), so Nintendo are NOT going to start the new console era by themselves.
charlequin
Banned
apujanata said:
Exactly.
Generally, two factors go into starting a generation: demand on the consumers' side for new hardware, and one system hardware manufacturer with the most to gain from resetting the clock initiating a generational shift that drags the others along with it.
On the demand side, I think it's fairly reasonable to suggest that demand can be related to how far the price of the system has dropped: the more someone spends on a system, the more use they expect to "get out of it" before they want to invest in a new one. And given the average prices people have paid for all three systems this generation, demand is not likely to be that high all that quickly. (And it's simply difficult to properly price next gen's systems if the current ones don't have a long window to price-drop; neither HD manufacturer is going to make the mistake of launching at $400+ again, I think, but it'll be awkward to position a $299 PS4 next to a $299 PS3...)
On the manufacturer's side, no one really has a good reason to jump the gun yet. No one can really use technological prowess as a selling point for a new system when the Wii is still handily winning and developers are already struggling just with the current systems; unlike, say, the GCN, neither loser system has fallen off a sales cliff (in fact, both are still probably becoming more profitable overall to their manufacturers than they were the year before)... There's no clear way to automatically win by launching first, and a lot to lose in terms of lost dev support, the huge expenses of launching new hardware, etc.
All in all, I think there's little reason to expect anyone to launch a new console before 2012 unless something changes rather drastically about the current market situation.
Kurosaki Ichigo
Member
So you blame a lower total userbase and then say its not the userbase fault :lolFlying_Phoenix said:
Get your damage control straight man, 'twice if not three times' lol, its not even near twice, but hey, whatever floats your boat.
Captain Smoker
Member
New releases in the next week. 
JoshuaJSlone
Member
It's also fair to note that every time I see a Famitsu PS2 total, it's something like a million higher than what I've got, so clearly either my early Famitsu source is off or they've invisibly back-corrected the numbers in a way I can't account for. Whatever the case may be, Wii is probably even more behind than my weekly figures indicate.donny2112 said:
Along with what I said above about my PS2 number probably being too low, there's that Wii is currently having a very slow time, while PS2 at the same age was having some of its best times, so things should only get worse if we add in another year or so to these lines.Laguna said:
I've been avoiding FF XIII information more often than not, but what do you mean delay? I thought they'd just never been very specific on a release time frame?Laguna said:
On the one hand, yes, PSP has the much larger userbase. On the other hand, total Wii software still usually sells more than total PSP software. What sort of titles most benefit from those sales can quite differ, though.Flying_Phoenix said:
pseudocaesar
Member
Captain Smoker said:New releases in the next week.
Dont fancy the odds of any title compared to the Yakuza juggernaut.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
The smart bet is definitely on Kazuma, but I'm not going to completely rule out Arino as having a shot.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
Famitsu Software Stuff
Tales of the World: Radiant Mythology 2 continues doing well in its second week. It's now the top Tales of the World title
as well as having the highest total of any Tales since late 2006's Tales of Destiny PS2 remake.
Taiko no Tatsujin Wii (3314) is no longer the fastest-selling Taiko game for its age, falling behind PS2's Taiko 3 (1284). Taiko 3 is currently has the second-highest Taiko total on record, while Taiko Wii is sixth.
Inazuma Eleven reappears on the charts. This is its first time in the Top 30 this year, but it must never been too far from it; it's gained about 46K since we last saw it in the 2008 Top 100 list.
Tales of the World: Radiant Mythology 2 continues doing well in its second week. It's now the top Tales of the World title
as well as having the highest total of any Tales since late 2006's Tales of Destiny PS2 remake.
Taiko no Tatsujin Wii (3314) is no longer the fastest-selling Taiko game for its age, falling behind PS2's Taiko 3 (1284). Taiko 3 is currently has the second-highest Taiko total on record, while Taiko Wii is sixth.
Inazuma Eleven reappears on the charts. This is its first time in the Top 30 this year, but it must never been too far from it; it's gained about 46K since we last saw it in the 2008 Top 100 list.
JoshuaJSlone what exactly are you trying to tell us with your extended timeframe? Since both systems weren´t released at the same month the comparison is always giving a distorted picture of the situation, while it´s obvious that Wii is doing bad for some weeks now, you have to consider that Wii is also in a generally slow period right now, while the PS2 was around Golden Week in the same timeframe and your extended graph is even showing numbers for the next holiday season, of course you´ll see such a steep line and big difference compared to Wii´s recent flat numbers.
Yoichi Wada said that Dragon Quest IX delay may impact FFXIII release so that it may be pushed back (intern plans).
Yoichi Wada said that Dragon Quest IX delay may impact FFXIII release so that it may be pushed back (intern plans).
Pureauthor
Member
The new Musou's supposed to be more 'Monster Huntery' than anything else, if I recall. I'm interested to see how it does.
I will say, however, that most of their 'Awakenings' (or whatever it is they're calling them) look awful.
I will say, however, that most of their 'Awakenings' (or whatever it is they're calling them) look awful.
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
Hopefully Xseed or somebody announces Way of the Samurai 3 US. I need it.
Also completely forgot about KoF 2k2 UM. I kind of wish this game was getting an XBLA release instead of KoF 98 UM. =/
Also completely forgot about KoF 2k2 UM. I kind of wish this game was getting an XBLA release instead of KoF 98 UM. =/
Segata Sanshiro
Member
They're definitely advertising it that way.Pureauthor said:
JoshuaJSlone
Member
The seasonal thing isn't really panning out. Due to the mismatched time frames as you've noted, it seemed like they would keep leapfrogging each other's totals as each hit ~December. But as you can see, PS2 took the lead with a big December 2001, and Wii couldn't match it. Wii's November/December 2008 just barely kept it even with the February/March 2002 PS2 numbers from PS2 at the same age.Laguna said:
In 2002 PS2 didn't have a week under 50K until June, and didn't have a week under 40K until September. Big numbers throughout the year, though its holiday didn't keep up with the year before. As long as Wii is sitting around 20K or even 30K, it'll be losing a lot of ground each week.
Ahh yes.
It still makes little to no sense to prolong the compared timeframe when there´s only data for one system and knowing that the system with the missing numbers stopped at a weak period, while the other system is around Golden Week and even continues to the next holiday season. What useful conclusion can someone make with this? Isn´t it obvious that it´s a rather big difference comparing sales from a weak period with sales from holiday periods?
JoshuaJSlone
Member
It's a relatively slow time of year, yes. That alone doesn't explain away that Wii 2009 is doing MUCH worse than itself from 2007 or 2008, or PS2 from 2002 even if we align by the beginning of the year. If it's doing so much worse now, there's no reason to believe it won't continue to do so much worse in the months ahead without something making that change.Laguna said:
Never is a bit far, though. I don't think Wii will stay this atrocious forever, and if this generation goes especially long it will have more time to catch up to PS2. Kind of like PSP has extra time to try and catch up to GBA.DarkMehm said:
JoshuaJSlone said:
I said myself that Wiis numbers are bad/ flat etc.
It still makes little to no sense to prolong the compared timeframe when there´s only data for one system and knowing that the system with the missing numbers stopped at a weak period, while the other system is around Golden Week and even continues to the next holiday season.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
We don't have to be Nostradamus or ioi to have a fair guess that based on the Wii's recent hardware sales it's not touching a frequent 50K any time soon.Laguna said:
Flying_Phoenix
Banned
Kurosaki Ichigo said:
What's so funny?
I admit I may have overexaggerated a bit.
However my statement wasn't completely false.
Wii LTD near Tenchu IV's release -
Wii 6,880,528
PSP's current LTD - PSP 11,775,801
That was the closest thread I found toward Tenchu's launch. Either way comparing the two LTD's of the systems at the time the PSP nearly doubles the Wii's LTD (5 million more). Actually in comparison the PSP version should have sold more, but obviously that was hampered by the Wii version already releasing hence anyone who had both a PSP and Wii would have already had it as well as the Tenchu IV's thunder being stolen by the Wii release.
Either way both have seriously underperformed compared to prior releases (Tenchu III sold over 250k and even the PSP port drastically will outperform both releases combined), so I don't see any "damage control" in my statements.
JoshuaJSlone said:
Good point. Possibly the Wii userbase doesn't take too kindly to more dark and serious themed games in Japan.
test_account
XP-39C²
Just a thought regarding the PSP LTD, can it be that the PSP userbase is relatively segnificant smaller than PSP's current LTD? The PSP has been released in 3 models (the latest being PSP-3000), which might mean that several of the same people have bought a PSP 2 or 3 times. This goes for every system that has had re-releases of their hardware, like the DS, the PS2 and the GBA.Flying_Phoenix said:
Since the Wii (and the PS3 and the Xbox 360 as well) doesnt have had any hardware re-releases yet, maybe the Wii's LTD is closer to the acctual userbase compared to how it is with the PSP's LTD and the PSP's userbase.
Unfortunately, this is something that we will most likely never get the answer to, so all we probably can do is to refer to the LTD of a system. Therefor i am not saying that it is wrong to say that the PSP has a usebase of 11,775,801, but i just thought that i would share my though about how many individual people who owns a PSP since there exict 3 different models of the PSP
EDIT: i added some text.
Flying_Phoenix
Banned
test_account said:Just a thought regarding the PSP LTD, can it be that the PSP userbase is relatively segnificant smaller than PSP's current LTD? The PSP has been released in 3 models (the latest being PSP-3000), which might mean that several of the same people have bought a PSP 2 or 3 times. This goes for every system that has had re-releases of their hardware, like the DS, the PS2 and the GBA.
Since the Wii (and the PS3 and the Xbox 360 as well) doesnt have had any hardware re-releases yet, maybe the Wii's LTD is closer to the acctual userbase compared to how it is with the PSP's LTD and the PSP's userbase.
Unfortunately, this is something that we will most likely never get the answer to, so all we probably can do is to refer to the LTD of a system. Therefor i am not saying that it is wrong to say that the PSP has a usebase of 11,775,801, but i just thought that i would share my though about how many individual people who owns a PSP since there exict 3 different models of the PSP
EDIT: i added some text.
Very good point. Either way Tenchu IV performed terribly on both systems as even the first Tenchu for the PSP will easily end up outselling both. Yeah the PSP one sold significantly more then the Wii, but when you're dealing with a difference of around 5k for a AA production title, well you're pretty much comparing a kick in the balls to a painful titty twister.
Cosmonaut X
Member
Frankly, I think the multiple-systems-per-user hypothesis is worthless as there is no data to support it.
It is entirely possible - especially with handhelds that have seen multiple models/colours, or notoriously faulty hardware - that a significant number of system sales are repurchases or double-dips, but it is impossible to confirm this.
And if you do try and fly with this, where do you stop? Perhaps 30% of DS owners have tired of the system so there's really only around a 14-15 million userbase. Perhaps of those 14-15 million, half are repurchases for new colours/models so there's really only a 7 million + active userbase... etc. etc.
The only solid numbers we have are the total hardware sales and the accompanying software figures, and I think even trying to estimate "active userbases" beyond those figures is pointless without some pretty convincing supporting data.
It is entirely possible - especially with handhelds that have seen multiple models/colours, or notoriously faulty hardware - that a significant number of system sales are repurchases or double-dips, but it is impossible to confirm this.
And if you do try and fly with this, where do you stop? Perhaps 30% of DS owners have tired of the system so there's really only around a 14-15 million userbase. Perhaps of those 14-15 million, half are repurchases for new colours/models so there's really only a 7 million + active userbase... etc. etc.
The only solid numbers we have are the total hardware sales and the accompanying software figures, and I think even trying to estimate "active userbases" beyond those figures is pointless without some pretty convincing supporting data.
Kurosaki Ichigo
Member
The funny part was the exaggeration (come on, you should look up for the data before making such claims unless you're pretty sure you are right) and that your point being that userbase isn't to blame just after saying that the smaller userbase could be blamed for lower sales. I'm not agreeing/disagreeing with what anything you said anyway, I was pointing out that those were funny and contradictory respectively.Flying_Phoenix said:
Kurosaki Ichigo said:
His point is not contradictory because he first talk about the wii hardware userbase vs psp hardware userbase
Flying_Phoenix said:
and after he talk about wii userbase tastes i think, that low third party sales are due to bad advertisement or publishers bad decisions and not by wii userbase not buying games.
Flying_Phoenix said:
Flying_Phoenix
Banned
^^^^Yes exactly. Thank you for elaborating.
Accept I did look up the data before hand. It really wasn't that far from 2 times the amount, I do admit 3 times was an exaggeration.
I was talking about the userbase purchasing habits not the userbase in terms of size.
Kurosaki Ichigo said:
Accept I did look up the data before hand. It really wasn't that far from 2 times the amount, I do admit 3 times was an exaggeration.
Kurosaki Ichigo said:
I was talking about the userbase purchasing habits not the userbase in terms of size.
By the way guys, 360 is on track to pass 1 million in about 3-4 months time. That's going at the average of 7.5k/week. SO4 should push a bit more units than regular, though I don't want to bother predicting anything. SO4 might have the hype machine on its side but I'm not sure how many more hardware units are going to get pushed after IU.
Kurosaki Ichigo
Member
Yes, I know you aren't blaming it for the same reason (that would have been way too funny), what I said is that you're still blaming the userbase, for one reason or another. To be honest, I don't think you can blame the userbase (wii or psp) here, they are way big enough for tenchu and they both did such little numbers that even the 360 with its <1m userbase could have pulled them. Neither Tenchu 4 would have done better if the userbases were bigger nor the userbases purchasing habits are killing its possibilities.Flying_Phoenix said:
test_account
XP-39C²
Ye, Tenchu IV has indeed preformed pretty bad on both the Wii and on the PSP, and the difference between how much Tenchu IV has sold on the Wii and on the PSP isnt really that big as you say. How much did the first Tenchu game sell by the way?Flying_Phoenix said:
Ye, i agree that it is rather worthless if you want to use this as an arguement point, since there are no data to support it as you say. Since we probably will never got the answer to how many individual people who have bought a gaming system, all we probably can do is to refer to the LTD harware sales for a system and say that this is the userbase.Cosmonaut X said:
I didnt mean to argue about that the PSP userbase is smaller than the LTD, or use it in any sales analyzing because it is probably impossible to confirm this as you say. I am sorry if it looked like i did this. I just wanted to share my thought about it since i thought it could be an interesting thought
There wasnt really much more to it than just a thought The same goes for the DS owers and the PS2 onwers as you mention, and the GBA as well. This isnt something that i would use as an argument in a sales discussion, that the userbase is smaller than the sales LTD because we dont have any data for it that confirm it, i just thought it was an interesting thought that i wanted to share
EDIT: I added some text.
Liabe Brave
Member
But the Wii was doing better than the PS2. It isn't anymore, but it kept ahead for almost two years. Maybe I could've been clearer, but the statement "even hardware is faltering now" was meant to indicate that it's not keeping up any longer, a fact which I did know.donny2112 said:
Did you even read what I wrote? I specifically mentioned poor third-party support as a factor in the problems we're seeing, yet you act like I'm too ignorant to see that. Please quit with this condescending bullshit. You're usually a great poster.donny2112 said:
I agree. I think it's also very interesting that Nintendo have provided by far the best support, yet it feels like they still haven't provided enough. I imagine they expected third parties to step up after literal years of Nintendomination and PS3 crawling. Not exactly an insane expectation--third parties in Japan are really undervaluing Wii--but when it didn't happen, why didn't Nintendo have a backup plan in place? What are all their internal studios doing? Quality software sells on Wii; Nintendo could be making even more money while third parties ignore the obvious opportunity. Their conservative, slow-paced plans (which served them very well during the lean Gamecube years) seem to have hampered them in the boom times. Accumulating tens of billions of dollars in cash, as awesome as it sounds, is not the way toward future success.donny2112 said:
BishopLamont
Banned
Hopefully SO4 pushes at least 30k, effectively wiping more then a months worth.phez said:
Leon S. Kennedy
Member
I think wii sports resort will be huge in japan and worldwide (similar to wii fit and wii sports). Nintendo and 3rd parties may have software which uses the motion plus and can't release any of this software until motion plus is out there. I might be overly optimistic by including 3rd parties in my speculation, but I think the wii hardware will pick up significantly after sports resort and motion plus.
I have been disappointed by the lack of quality software that uses the balance board well. I would have expected a lot more by now.
I have been disappointed by the lack of quality software that uses the balance board well. I would have expected a lot more by now.
Flying_Phoenix
Banned
Kurosaki Ichigo said:
I was blaming the size of the amount of Wii owners instead of the Wii owners purchasing habits. While I used "userbase" for both statement I meant totally different things.
test_account said:
Pretty much. Washed up is washed up and a bomb is a bomb. Regardless of the Wii and PSP difference between the two it's pretty clear that the sales of both were so low that making any arguement about serious games not existing for the Wii market becomes irrelvant. The series is proven to be washed up now. Tenchu IV could be used as a poster child of "Wii third party games in Japan sell bad because of bad marketing and the lack of erosion and not because of the lack of core gamers" if the Wii defense force plays their cards right. :lol
Liabe Brave
Member
And there's also RE 5 coming, which should boost the hardware at least a little. I don't think it'll take four months for the 360 to hit a million (especially if you go by Famitsu).BishopLamont said:
Liabe Brave said:
Yes. I just couldn't understand why you would even feel the need to ask the question why third-parties aren't doing as well on the Wii as the PS2, when the simple fact is that it is impossible to "win" if you don't "play." In other words, third-parties can't sell software anywhere close to the PS2 (or DS, which is itself well below the PS2 in third-party software) without putting the big games out there in the first place.
Liabe Brave said:
It is much more than just one factor among many, though. If the Wii had had day-and-date releases with the multiplatform games on the PS360 (Gundam Musou 2 with its PS2 port getting a day-and-date launch being an even more appalling recent offender), do you think the general level of Wii software would be so low right now? It's not enough to just say "the hardware's there, so we don't need to worry about maintaining software throughput on the console" as many third-parties (and sadly Nintendo) seem to be doing.
Liabe Brave said:
It's because they're not strongly supporting a handheld at the moment, yet they are currently having a console-side drought not seen since they were trying to establish the DS back in 2004/2005. Holding stuff back for the Motion+ launch/announcements at least makes some sense, but it's no excuse to let the console suffer like they are. They were betting on a silver bullet of Wii Music/Animal Crossing, and I'm just shocked that they didn't have a backup plan.
I think part of it is that they are just so freaking confused when looking at the worldwide market. It doesn't make sense to use your big guns to push sales when you're still selling out 2+ years after launch in the world's biggest market. However, that's exactly what they've needed for the last nine months in Japan to get things moving again. I think they could've easily had Motion+ out by last Fall in Japan, but they seem to want to keep everything even across the world for the most part, which means it couldn't come out until this year. Nintendo has tried to do more "worldwide" thinking instead of "regional" thinking this generation, but I think "regional" thinking makes a whole lot more sense when Japan is doing so poorly compared to everywhere else.
Liabe Brave said:
It is, however, the way toward future survival, which is more important to Nintendo than focusing on increasing their current success. Regardless of what they do with their billions, though, they have the resources to not be going through the dryspell that they are now without having to dip heavily into their reserves. Nintendo gambled on Wii Music/Animal Crossing carrying the Wii until they could do whatever it is they are planning to do this year, and they lost. It's that gamble that is so surprising to me.
Link
The Autumn Wind
I think Nintendo should start packing in Wii Sports with the Wii in Japan. It works from all angles. It could help jumpstart hardware sales; Resort is coming out soon, which will further hurt Sports' sales anyway; it could build an even larger userbase for Resort, which in turn will help sell M+; and Nintendo can avoid an actual pricedrop.
Seems like an almost no-brainer, really.
Seems like an almost no-brainer, really.
MarzipaNMOS
Member
Link said:
Well, they could also just wait another month or two and pack in Resort with motion+ and Wiis. That's a pretty killer combo in its own right.
BishopLamont
Banned
Yeah since Wii Sports is selling slowly now, packing it in would be the better idea then packing in Wii Sports Resort. They'd want to profit from WSR, since it'd be the new hotness. If they pack in WSR, they'd have no big game to sell. Wii Sports is good enough to have word of mouth, since it's been selling since the start.
Nuclear Muffin
Banned
Link said:
That's not a bad idea, but I reckon that they might choose to do a Wii Sports Resort packin instead, to try and increase the penetration of Motionplus.
Star Ocean 4 sold 166,027 first week according to Famitsu making it the fastest selling game on the 360.
http://www.famitsu.com/game/news/1222262_1124.html
http://www.famitsu.com/game/news/1222262_1124.html