Support NeoGAF

[donny2112]

That seems a pretty tall order.

Which is why I felt the need to actually say it.

I guess you expect something big from MotionPlus and/or Monster Hunter and/or something else?

I expect Nintendo to not be complete idiots. What that entails specifically remains to be seen, but Nintendo is not as inept a company as they've portrayed themselves as in Japan over the last nine months.

 

[test_account]

Ahh I see. Sorry for the misunderstanding on my part. I agree with you. I just get so ":/" every time I see people saying "Why is this game on Wii?" for every Wii exclusive.

No problem I could maybe have explained it better what i ment at first, i am sorry about that. I also forgot to say that i didnt mean to say that more advanced graphics are necesseraly more important/better than motion controls either just so that is said I just wanted to say i personally think that more advanced graphics can add something to the games as well, like maybe stuff like a better atmosphere to the game

Ye, i know what you mean about the Wii exclusives. I think it is good that each gaming system gets their own exclusive games

EDIT: I added some text.

 

[Eteric Rice]

It's really going to depend on what Nintendo has up their sleeves. They may make some announcements at GDC and E3 (I would say lol at this, but Iwata himself said something about E3).

If I were Nintendo, I would be sending over some talent to Enix to give DQX a head start on development. I wouldn't be surprised if Enix is already working on DQX, though, since DQIX is pretty much done.

If Nintendo can keep Monster Hunter Tri off of the PSP for a few months (or a year), that would help a lot as well.

 

[Raggy]

Looks like 360 will hit 1M before PS3 hits 3M?

e.g. if 360 averages 14k per week, and PS3 goes to 20k per week.

 

[Hammer24]

Averaging 14k per week is a tall order for the 360. Lets see where they all stand after the dust has settled.

 

[spwolf]

Looks like 360 will hit 1M before PS3 hits 3M?

e.g. if 360 averages 14k per week, and PS3 goes to 20k per week.

why would 360 average at 14k when PS3 drops to 20k?

 

[spwolf]

Lets see where they all stand after the dust has settled.

translation: when there are no more games left to sell?

Kaz was right all along - all PS3's needs in Japan is games... unfortunatly 3-4 per year wont cut it.

 

[Hammer24]

translation: when there are no more games left to sell?

Translation: after next week.

 

[big_z]

nintendo needs some *good* software badly. wii sports 2 and MH cant come soon enough.

on the other hand sony has gotten some decent games lately which attributes to higher than normal numbers but at the same time it's numbers didnt really jump to anywhere near impressive.... the boost from RE5 is a lot smaller than i thought it would be.

 

[spwolf]

nintendo needs some *good* software badly. wii sports 2 and MH cant come soon enough.

they all do...

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Which is why I felt the need to actually say it.

I expect Nintendo to not be complete idiots. What that entails specifically remains to be seen, but Nintendo is not as inept a company as they've portrayed themselves as in Japan over the last nine months.

Their version of smart and successful (in a timely fashion) doesn't always match up with ours, though. I guess I'm pretty conservative when looking ahead at hardware. It usually works, but does leave me slow to recognize a new norm as more than a short-term thing when it appears (DS staying over 100K, PSP-2000 actually causing a long-term improvement, DS staying under 100K again, X360 staying over 5K).

If I were Nintendo, I would be sending over some talent to Enix to give DQX a head start on development. I wouldn't be surprised if Enix is already working on DQX, though, since DQIX is pretty much done.

I'd be surprised if they weren't. I'd imagine the actual programming/modeling/etc. team working on a DS game would be a different group than ones put on a Wii project. And this far into DQ IX's development, I'd think the art/scenario/music stuff that the big names of the franchise work on should've been mostly complete long ago.

 

[donny2112]

I think it quite likely that PS3 @ 3 million and 360 @ 1 million will occur within one week of each other. Possibly on the same week.

 

[Rock_Man]

This graph is now starting to get interesting

 

[donny2112]

I guess I'm pretty conservative when looking ahead at hardware. It usually works, but does leave me slow to recognize a new norm as more than a short-term thing when it appears (DS staying over 100K, PSP-2000 actually causing a long-term improvement, DS staying under 100K again, X360 staying over 5K).

Speaking separately from the Nintendo thing ...

Having the available historical data is good. However you have to be careful that you don't let the past data give you too much confidence that things will continue to play out as they have previously. The numbers are a good tool. Anecdotal evidence, though relatively weak in its meaning, is a good tool. Trying to understand the reasons, motivations, and actions of the companies involved is a good tool. Trying to recognize your own biases and working to not let them cloud your judgment is also important. Put them all together and most of the time you come out with the same answer that you would've gotten if you just assumed that things will continue to be as they are. However sometimes trying to look at the big picture can lead you to a conclusion that things won't continue the way they have been. That's what analysis is. Most anyone with access to the numbers can predict that tomorrow will look like yesterday. It's recognizing when that's not the case that is more important, though.

 

[Acosta]

By the end of this year, Wii will be > 2x PS360 total YTD. Probably ~3x.

In the year of Final Fantasy XIII and a more than probable price cut of PS3?

You are way off, I don't discard Wii can surpass PS360 this year but it won't be 2X, much less 3X.

 

[Link]

No! Idiots were calling it a failure

I don't recall you calling it a failure. [insert winky smiley here to act like I'm kidding when I'm really not.]

 

[Tmac]

Quick question on the 360 vs xbox LTD numbers. I had a quick look on the garaph.info site and it seems that the 360 has now sold double what the original xbox did in Japan. Is that right?

Anyone confirm it?

According to wikipedia the original xbox sold about 2 million in japan LTD.

 

[neojubei]

Looks like 360 will hit 1M before PS3 hits 3M?

e.g. if 360 averages 14k per week, and PS3 goes to 20k per week.

You forgot to factor in the FF13 demo and FF13 if it comes out this year.

 

[Sage00]

You forgot to factor in the FF13 demo and FF13 if it comes out this year.

GT5 is more likely to hit this year imo.

And I don't mean that in a 'lol no way will FF13 hit, even GT5 will hit before it!' way, I really think GT5 will release this year.

 

[Tideas]

GT5 is more likely to hit this year imo.

And I don't mean that in a 'lol no way will FF13 hit, even GT5 will hit before it!' way, I really think GT5 will release this year.

GT5 Prologue Spec IV

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

You forgot to factor in the FF13 demo and FF13 if it comes out this year.

At this point I think there's a better of chance of Wollan and kittonwy getting married and birthing a fully grown clone of spwolf than FF13 coming out this fiscal year.

 

[Johann]

I'd be surprised if they weren't. I'd imagine the actual programming/modeling/etc. team working on a DS game would be a different group than ones put on a Wii project. And this far into DQ IX's development, I'd think the art/scenario/music stuff that the big names of the franchise work on should've been mostly complete long ago.

I wonder if Level 5 again would be contracted for DQX.

In addition to their lack of experience with the Wii hardware, if Level 5's inexperience with extensive use of the DS's online functionality and DQIX's technical demands may have been a factor in the game's delays (along the reversion to more traditional DQ gameplay), Armor Project might want to work with someone who has previous experience dealing with those issues (come to think of it, Level 5's inexperience with online was a factor in True Fantasy Live Online's cancellation).

Level 5 also seemed to lack manpower during DQIX's development (more recent official 'Developed by' listings have Level 5 & Square-Enix as opposed to the earlier Level 5 listing) which could have been a matter of working on several other projects during DQIX's development.

 

[test_account]

Not really, unless you speak in broader terms in which case stuff like the Power Glove and the Power Pad counts as well.

Dont you have to mimic different movements in the Eyetoy games to play those games, sorta like you for example mimic a tennis swing with the Wii controller? I dont think that i have tried any Eyetoy games, that is why i ask, but i am under the impression that this is how Eyetoy works.

I guess that the Wii controller is more responcive and more advance than the Eyetoy though, but when it comes to the concept about mimicing different movements to play, isnt the concept itself abit similar between the Eyetoy and the Wii controller? But with 2 quite different approches to achieve this concept, where the Wii uses a physical controller for the movements while the Eyetoy uses a camera?

 

[Stumpokapow]

At this point I think there's a better of chance of Wollan and kittonwy getting married and birthing a fully grown clone of spwolf than FF13 coming out this fiscal year.

u just jelus cuz u won't be playin versus in flal 2009 with teh rest of us. so pathetic, ur hate is!!!

 

[Busaiku]

In addition to their lack of experience with the Wii hardware

They're doing Inazuma 11 Break.

 

[AranhaHunter]

They're doing Inazuma 11 Break.

Has this even been confirmed?

 

[Stumpokapow]

Has this even been confirmed?

the game has, the platform hasn't--but i dare you to look at the screenshot and conclude it's for any other platform.

 

[donny2112]

Thought/Realization/Epiphany:

Spoiler

Regular games need/should get sequels.
Expanded audience games need/should get expansions.

Examples:
Animal Crossing is an expanded audience game. This is why we haven't seen a sequel to it, and why what games have come out since the first one are more like expansions. You could bring your N64 character to the GameCube. You can bring your DS character to the Wii.

Wii Sports is a regular game. It needs/should get a sequel. No, Wii Sports Resort still isn't it.

This is why Brain Training 2 is called More Brain Training. More English Training. Cooking Navi 2 is actually "International Meals - Cooking Navi."

It's why Sims gets 6 expansions a year.

Wii Fit will eventually get an expansion type game as opposed to a full-on sequel. "More Wii Fit."

 

[AranhaHunter]

the game has, the platform hasn't--but i dare you to look at the screenshot and conclude it's for any other platform.

Spoiler

Playstation 2

Actually I don't care, just wondering if it was confirmed or not, thanks for the reply.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

At this point I think there's a better of chance of Wollan and kittonwy getting married and birthing a fully grown clone of spwolf than FF13 coming out this fiscal year.

That's a mental image that I didn't need. Bravo sir.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Anyone confirm it?

I'll confirm it. *shifty eyes*

According to wikipedia the original xbox sold about 2 million in japan LTD.

That's their shipment number for the region, which must include other Asian areas as well. Possibly Australia, too?

Dont you have to mimic different movements in the Eyetoy games to play those games, sorta like you for example mimic a tennis swing with the Wii controller? I dont think that i have tried any Eyetoy games, that is why i ask, but i am under the impression that this is how Eyetoy works.

I guess that the Wii controller is more responcive and more advance than the Eyetoy though, but when it comes to the concept about mimicing different movements to play, isnt the concept itself abit similar between the Eyetoy and the Wii controller? But with 2 quite different approches to achieve this concept, where the Wii uses a physical controller for the movements while the Eyetoy uses a camera?

Sort of. EyeToy captures video of a person. By telling what part of the video is changing and what's not, it can tell which parts of the video contain movement, which the game program must then interpret. Which works well for things contained in EyeToy Play like washing windows or smacking away a stream of kung-fu dudes, but on its own couldn't replicate something like Wii Sports. Though I think Play does have a boxing game, but it's been so long I don't remember how it works.

But then, Wiimote couldn't do the wash-the-windows game as well as EyeToy, either. Quite different approaches to putting people's motions into the game.

 

[Jokeropia]

Dont you have to mimic different movements in the Eyetoy games to play those games, sorta like you for example mimic a tennis swing with the Wii controller? I dont think that i have tried any Eyetoy games, that is why i ask, but i am under the impression that this is how Eyetoy works.

I guess that the Wii controller is more responcive and more advance than the Eyetoy though, but when it comes to the concept about mimicing different movements to play, isnt the concept itself abit similar between the Eyetoy and the Wii controller? But with 2 quite different approches to achieve this concept, where the Wii uses a physical controller for the movements while the Eyetoy uses a camera?

Like I said, I don't think they're any more similar to the Wii ___ games than the Power Glove and Power Pad stuff.

 

[Johann]

Thought/Realization/Epiphany:

Spoiler

Regular games need/should get sequels.
Expanded audience games need/should get expansions.

Examples:
Animal Crossing is an expanded audience game. This is why we haven't seen a sequel to it, and why what games have come out since the first one are more like expansions. You could bring your N64 character to the GameCube. You can bring your DS character to the Wii.

Wii Sports is a regular game. It needs/should get a sequel. No, Wii Sports Resort still isn't it.

This is why Brain Training 2 is called More Brain Training. More English Training. Cooking Navi 2 is actually "International Meals - Cooking Navi."

It's why Sims gets 6 expansions a year.

Wii Fit will eventually get an expansion type game as opposed to a full-on sequel. "More Wii Fit."

Rhetoric/Response/Insanity

Spoiler

Nintendo's current plan seems to be about spending resources on finding the next hit game (the next Pokemon/Wii Sports/Wii Fit) rather than making sequels to their hit games that have already shown up for the generation. This is especially true if the original game continues to sell. It's cheaper for them to keep on publishing and advertising NSMB/Wii Fit/Heroin: Mario Kart edition (at full price no less) rather than develop a new game in that franchise. Sequels would sell well but they wouldn't expand the audience and convince untapped customers to buy the Wii/DS.

Nintendo has probably mandated it's much more critical for them to get as much hardware (peripherals included) into households as possible. The ideal situation would be one in which Nintendo makes the hit game (ex. Brain Training). gets people on the fence to buy the DS/Wii, and a third-party fills in the gap with their own take on it (Layton series) and everybody watches the money print.

I suppose a normal person would've thought I was insane. After all, why on earth would I come back to school when I had the entire day off, with no exams or classes?

It was an appealing thought, but I had a greater duty to do. A bit on the fantasy side, admittedly, but it was a reality that I saw very vividly. Practically everyone from our circles did Chemistry, except for Richard and myself. They'd be sitting around, talking crap or in Khoa's case, actually studying. I wouldn't want to miss out on some nostalgia, would I?

But beyond these minor reasons lay a much bigger cause. These guys, they were my friends. My comrades, the people I'd gladly do anything alongside. People I could trust and joke with; rely on and work with. The least I could do was to show up to school like any other day.

We never thought the war would reach us. When the Germans invaded, they killed everyone in my village, and I was the only survivor. I walked many miles before I was picked up by a Russian patrol, but they were attacked and killed. I picked up a rifle and killed my first German. My skill was recognized and I became a sniper in the Red Army.

 

[Psychotext]

According to wikipedia the original xbox sold about 2 million in japan LTD.

I can't tell you for sure, but the last numbers I saw for the xbox in Japan were something like 455k.

No doubt someone will be along shortly to correct me.:lol

 

[donny2112]

I can't tell you for sure, but the last numbers I saw for the xbox in Japan were something like 455k.

The shipped number to "Asia" was 2 million. The Wikipedia page is incorrect.

 

[BishopLamont]

It's hard to make a comparison. Perhaps the west would see a similar effect as Japan, if Wii supply had caught up to demand in the middle of 2008.

It's not just Wii supply though, third party titles are a major force on the Wii just as much as first party, in Japan it's basically Nintendo only. Add to the fact that firsty party titles are still selling well there, not so much in Japan.

Which is why I felt the need to actually say it.
I expect Nintendo to not be complete idiots. What that entails specifically remains to be seen, but Nintendo is not as inept a company as they've portrayed themselves as in Japan over the last nine months.

Nintendo is as much at fault as third parties when it comes to software for the Wii, they basically banked on the wrong horse with AC and Wii Music and third parties banked on HD. This really wouldn't matter much if Japan wasn't so much handheld land, even more so now that the PSP came back from the slums. It's funny we're basically back to waiting for more first party titles for the Wii, it seems to be a never ending cycle.

I think it quite likely that PS3 @ 3 million and 360 @ 1 million will occur within one week of each other. Possibly on the same week.

Just a few weeks ago the Wii was also in the race. :lol
The PS3 will probably make it there first, really depends on how it bottoms out.

 

[ccbfan]

I think people are underestimating how hard it is to make Wii games.

Even Nintendo themselves with all of it's resources have shown how slow the process can be.

People just assume that hey it only has GCN+ graphics that it would be a lot easier than the HD twins.

We haven't seen anything that shows Wii games are easier to make.

 

[Eteric Rice]

I think people are underestimating how hard it is to make Wii games.

Even Nintendo themselves with all of it's resources have shown how slow the process can be.

People just assume that hey it only has GCN+ graphics that it would be a lot easier than the HD twins.

We haven't seen anything that shows Wii games are easier to make.

Honestly, the process is always slow with Nintendo. They try to polish the shit out of everything they make.

 

[DayShallCome]

Rhetoric/Response/Insanity

Spoiler

Nintendo's current plan seems to be about spending resources on finding the next hit game (the next Pokemon/Wii Sports/Wii Fit) rather than making sequels to their hit games that have already shown up for the generation. This is especially true if the original game continues to sell. It's cheaper for them to keep on publishing and advertising NSMB/Wii Fit/Heroin: Mario Kart edition (at full price no less) rather than develop a new game in that franchise. Sequels would sell well but they wouldn't expand the audience and convince untapped customers to buy the Wii/DS.

Nintendo has probably mandated it's much more critical for them to get as much hardware (peripherals included) into households as possible. The ideal situation would be one in which Nintendo makes the hit game (ex. Brain Training). gets people on the fence to buy the DS/Wii, and a third-party fills in the gap with their own take on it (Layton series) and everybody watches the money print.

I suppose a normal person would've thought I was insane. After all, why on earth would I come back to school when I had the entire day off, with no exams or classes?

It was an appealing thought, but I had a greater duty to do. A bit on the fantasy side, admittedly, but it was a reality that I saw very vividly. Practically everyone from our circles did Chemistry, except for Richard and myself. They'd be sitting around, talking crap or in Khoa's case, actually studying. I wouldn't want to miss out on some nostalgia, would I?

But beyond these minor reasons lay a much bigger cause. These guys, they were my friends. My comrades, the people I'd gladly do anything alongside. People I could trust and joke with; rely on and work with. The least I could do was to show up to school like any other day.

We never thought the war would reach us. When the Germans invaded, they killed everyone in my village, and I was the only survivor. I walked many miles before I was picked up by a Russian patrol, but they were attacked and killed. I picked up a rifle and killed my first German. My skill was recognized and I became a sniper in the Red Army.

Haha wtf.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

I think people are underestimating how hard it is to make Wii games.

Even Nintendo themselves with all of it's resources have shown how slow the process can be.

People just assume that hey it only has GCN+ graphics that it would be a lot easier than the HD twins.

We haven't seen anything that shows Wii games are easier to make.

What makes it hard for other companies to make Wii games is that:

A. They've spent millions/tens of millions on resources for the PS3/360

B. Nintendo doesn't "convince" them to work on the Wii

 

[Grampa Simpson]

I think people are underestimating how hard it is to make Wii games.

Even Nintendo themselves with all of it's resources have shown how slow the process can be.

People just assume that hey it only has GCN+ graphics that it would be a lot easier than the HD twins.

We haven't seen anything that shows Wii games are easier to make.

Probably the same number of programmers and designers, but the number of texture artists, modelers, and animators should be much lower. Probably just about the same amount of time too.

Another thought is that with Wii games, if a particular part of a game is has been determined to be detrimental to the entire project, it can be scrapped and replaced with less cost than it would be on the HD twins.

I was going to say something about resident evil 5 here, but have decided to wait until it's been on shelves for longer. I think I've got a whole diatribe built up on the effect of hyperinflating production costs on the freedom of reinvention.

 

[APerfectCircle]

i know the Wii is looking pretty shitty right now, but considering the comparison of games released recently (ps3 v wii) its pretty amazing they are still on top year to date. as nice as it is to see the 360 and ps3 doing some ok numbers, ikt just highlights how terrible the console market is doing at the moment. yakuza, SF4 and RE5 are all massive games which at a point in the past could have been selling double what they are in japan now.
Will be interesting to see what happens over the next 5 months thats for sure. There really is a chance for one console to jump ahead again, and for some reason i'd have my money on the Wii.,

 

[Spiegel]

yakuza, SF4 and RE5 are all massive games which at a point in the past could have been selling double what they are in japan now.

Not really.

Yakuza 3 and RE5 just had higher first weeks than the previous games on PS2/GC and are going to end with pretty close LTD sales.

 

[justchris]

Upcoming Releases.

NDS:
03/19 Gardening Mama

Oh Mama, is there anything you can't do?

If I were Nintendo, I would be sending over some talent to Enix to give DQX a head start on development. I wouldn't be surprised if Enix is already working on DQX, though, since DQIX is pretty much done.

I'd be surprised if they weren't. I'd imagine the actual programming/modeling/etc. team working on a DS game would be a different group than ones put on a Wii project. And this far into DQ IX's development, I'd think the art/scenario/music stuff that the big names of the franchise work on should've been mostly complete long ago.

Since Enix never actually does the development (insofar as programming is concerned) of DQ themselves, if I were Nintendo, I'd have offered to take the development in-house once the scenario/art/music were completed. That automatically saves Square-Enix on dev costs, which they'll appreciate, and guarantees they can't change their mind later on and move it to another system.

 

[apujanata]

Oh Mama, is there anything you can't do?

Giving Birth Mama is improbable, while Baby Mama is probable. Stiching / Designer Mama is probably the next game.

 

[Kiriku]

This graph is now starting to get interesting

I always prefer these graphs, got any for handhelds as well?

 

[gantz85]

First Day Sales (03/12)

[PS3] Musou Orochi Z (Koei) - 79k (60%)
[NDS] Rittai Picross (Nintendo) - 10k
[WII] Wii de Asobu: Pikmin 2 (Nintendo) - 10k

[NDS] Annie no Atelier: Sera Shima no Renkijutsushi (Gust) - 10k
[PSP] Resistance: Retribution (SCE) - 10k

http://ameblo.jp/sinobi/entry-10223394439.html

So Kurosaki Ichigo in the previous thread was talking down Musou Orochi Z sales against my suggestion, it looks like that poster knew fuck all :lol

79K first day with something like 100K-ish first week to total up to nearly 200K LTD. Looks good. When shit like Bladestorm sells more than 100K you know that proven series are going to do that much more.

ya

(search %gust% in publisher and nothing in the title if you want to include other gust games that are tangentially related but not part of the atelier series)

Wow, Atelier is a pretty small series. I'm shocked that they can keep it going; they must have a tinyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy budget.

 

[phez]

The shipped number to "Asia" was 2 million. The Wikipedia page is incorrect.

Whoever put Asia as Japan is pretty shortsighted. Then again, looking at the history page for that xbox article, I'm not surprised.

 

[test_account]

Sort of. EyeToy captures video of a person. By telling what part of the video is changing and what's not, it can tell which parts of the video contain movement, which the game program must then interpret. Which works well for things contained in EyeToy Play like washing windows or smacking away a stream of kung-fu dudes, but on its own couldn't replicate something like Wii Sports. Though I think Play does have a boxing game, but it's been so long I don't remember how it works.

But then, Wiimote couldn't do the wash-the-windows game as well as EyeToy, either. Quite different approaches to putting people's motions into the game.

Ah ok, so that is how the Eyetoy camera works, thanks for the info! I found some Eyetoy Boxing video on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj3UrfjbGIs&feature=related

Ye, it seems to be quite a different accproach between the Eyetoy and the Wii controller to put people in motions as you say

Like I said, I don't think they're any more similar to the Wii ___ games than the Power Glove and Power Pad stuff.

Ye, i guess it depends on how you compare it. The Power Glove and the Power Pad only received relatively few games for those accessories (although the Power Glove could be used with many games, but not that many games were made specificly in mind to be used with the Power Glove usage), the Power Glove and the Power Pad were also accesories to the NES/Famicom. This is about the same with the Eyetoy. The Eyetoy didnt receive that many games for it and the Eyetoy is an accessory to the PS2 (and to the PS3). So in this way, the comparison works fine, i agree

The way i understood AranhaHunter's question about the Eyetoy doing much of the same stuff as the Wii does was that if Wii has next-gen controllers, then was the Eyetoy games next-gen controllers as well, due to that the concept is abit similar, about doing different motions to what you are doing in the games? That is why i asked about the Wii and the Eyetoy were similar in their concepts But i might have missunderstood, maybe this isnt what he ment.

What i think is pretty unique with the Wii though is that the motion controller is the standard controller, and not some accessory like the Eyetoy is. The Wii controller also seems to be more advanced when it comes to the movements and what you can do with the motion controls compared to what you can to do with the Eyetoy camera. And by being a standard controller to a console, i guess that the Wii controller is more next-gen than the Eyetoy or any other previous motion controls accessories

EDIT: I added some text.

 

[Sage00]

Wow, Atelier is a pretty small series. I'm shocked that they can keep it going; they must have a tinyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy budget.

I think it used to be pretty big back in the PS1 era, 300k+. The days when the series had that kind of appeal are long gone.