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[kisakiproject]

Brilliant. And the only thing that doesn't fit is the fact that you don't save the world. (Questionable in R/S/E). There we go, Pokemon's a jRPG! Yay! Confetti in the streets!

Your missing that I'm saying Pokemon is on the fence of being a JRPG.

 

[plagiarize]

Early works in genres tend not to be the same as what the genre grows into. That applies to anything. Early horror filsm are different form modern one. Early rock music is different from current rock music. Things change, early games build the framework but often don't fit into the mold they grow into. The original FF and DQ are so different from the modern ones its hard to believe they were even made by the same people.

come up with a definition of horror film that doesn't have room for nosteratu then.

if early jrpg are jrpgs, then your definition has to include them. sorry.

here's a tip. it'd be a lot easier if you weren't trying to exclude pokemon.

 

[LanceStern]

Brilliant. And the only thing that doesn't fit is the fact that you don't save the world. (Questionable in R/S/E). There we go, Pokemon's a jRPG! Yay! Confetti in the streets!

Hey no finding loopholes.

Pureauthor be serious here. Would you HONESTLY put Pokemon in the same type of RPG as Final fAntasy, Tales, Breath of Fire, Golde Sun, Dragon Quest, Tales etc.

Would you HONESTLY sell it to somebody like that? "Yea it's just like those other Japanese RPGs"

I hope you wouldn't, because it isn't the same type of jRPG as the others are.

 

[kisakiproject]

come up with a definition of horror film that doesn't have room for nosteratu then.

if early jrpg are jrpgs, then your definition has to include them. sorry.

here's a tip. it'd be a lot easier if you weren't trying to exclude pokemon.

How does it have to include the original. Ealry rap is incredibly differnt form curretn rap. Modern Metal is differnt from older metal. Modern romance stories are different from jane austin. Genre change over time.

For the last time im nto excluding pokemon. I'm saying its kindoff a JRPG and kindoff not.

 

[koam]

wtf is a jRPG and wtf invented that stupid term? Japan rpg.. aren't they all from japan anyway except for a select few. Those select few need a term.

 

[Pureauthor]

Pureauthor be serious here. Would you HONESTLY put Pokemon in the same type of RPG as Final fAntasy, Tales, Breath of Fire, Golde Sun, Dragon Quest, Tales etc.

Would you HONESTLY sell it to somebody like that? "Yea it's just like those other Japanese RPGs"

I hope you wouldn't, because it isn't the same type of jRPG as the others are.

No, just as I would not sell Mario Kart to someone on the basis of it being similar to Gran Turismo. That does not make it any less of a racer.

 

[LanceStern]

Ah, so the early FFs and DQs aren't jRPGs, then.

...

Forget this, I'm going to bed.

They are a group of people, japanese style, saving the world.. and that other classification.

You're being contentious.

And do you live in Antartica or something?! It's daytime man! Get out and exercise!

 

[Pureauthor]

.Ealry rap is incredibly differnt form curretn rap.

But they're both still rap.

Modern Metal is differnt from older metal.

But they're both still metal.

Modern romance stories are different from jane austin.

But they're all romance stories.

Genre change over time.

Genres expand. There's a difference.

nd do you live in Antartica or something?! It's daytime man! Get out and exercise!

It's 3.42 A.M. here, so shut it.

 

[Kurosaki Ichigo]

I think Tales is going to get its revenge to Metal Gear...

(you'll only understand this if you know what happened the same week 2 years ago)

 

[LanceStern]

No, just as I would not sell Mario Kart to someone on the basis of it being similar to Gran Turismo. That does not make it any less of a racer.

Because Pokemon isn't the same type of jRPG as the others.

A kart racer and simulation racer is a completely different subject.

 

[Pureauthor]

They are a group of people, japanese style, saving the world.. and that other classification.

You're being contentious.

That's right. Saving the world is what makes a jRPG a jRPG.

 

[OnWarmerMusic]

But here's my issue: Why couldn't TP and Wii Sports/Play sell more equally?

When Wii Sports and Wii Play were around 250k last week, Zelda was around 180k or 200k. That's decent

But now, Wii Sports/Play are still selling > 60k and Zelda is being left in the dust. Now where Wii sports is at 300k and Play at 270k, Zelda is starting to eat their dust.

There should be soem equalization, some balance. It doesn't have to crush the titles... but cant it share with them?

New Super Mario Bros., Animal Crossing and Brain Age 2 show you how it should be. Mario on top, AC and Brain Age closely behind. Games and nongames working together for a better future of gaming. No discrimination and bias.

It's a fair point, and as someone who loves Zelda, I'm not totally comfortable with the idea that TP somehow loses out to air hockey and bowling either. I guess it just goes back to where Nintendo's focus was, and fact that people only have so much money to spend on games (especially during a launch).

I agree with you in the sense that, if people had limitless disposable income, we probably would/should have seen a much closer ratio of one to the other. But when the emphasis in Japan right now is on a certain flavour of game, Nintendo is furiously catering to that audience with two high-profile launch titles, and one of those titles contains a free controller, well... this is just what happens.

@Pureauthor: I agree with pretty much everything you've said for far, but damn if you aren't fighting a losing battle on this one, dude . Try not to make yourself too nuts over it.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

How do you think Shigeru Miyamoto feels that his baby, his great game, got thwomped by Wii Sports and Wii Play?

He was jealous of Donkey Kong country
He was jealous of Banjo Kazooie
He didn't like the direction his baby metroid was taking for the GCN so he put it as a 1st person shooter...

You think he's going to get jealous of other titles created by the development group he leads? He didn't have much at all to do with old Metroid, either.

New Super Mario Bros., Animal Crossing and Brain Age 2 show you how it should be. Mario on top, AC and Brain Age closely behind. Games and nongames working together for a better future of gaming. No discrimination and bias.

They didn't release on the same week, nor at launch.

 

[Pureauthor]

I agree with pretty much everything you've said for far, but damn if you aren't fighting a losing battle on this one, dude . Try not to make yourself too nuts over it.

I just realized I've been acting pretty cranky.

Right, time to go to sleep for real.

 

[RaijinFY]

I think Tales is going to get its revenge to Metal Gear...

(you'll only understand this if you know what happened the same week 2 years ago)

BTW I didnt see Tales of Destiny remake on the top 30 chart.

 

[charlequin]

They were but what is a JRPG changed over time like everything changes overtime.

So Mario and Luigi: Superstar Saga isn't a jRPG? Mother 3 isn't an RPG? Breath of Fire V isn't a jRPG? Every one of these violates at least one of your "criteria." How about Megaman Battle Network?

 

[kisakiproject]

I'm gonna get back on topic. Here is my hardware predictions.

DSL - 450,000
Wii- 70,000
PS3- 55,000
PS2- 30,000
PSP - 30,000
360 - 16,000
GBA(all type) - 10,000
GCN- 500
DS fatty - 200
Xbox- 5

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

They are a group of people, japanese style, saving the world.. and that other classification.

You're being contentious.

And do you live in Antartica or something?! It's daytime man! Get out and exercise!

That definition is garbage and only being posited to exclude pokémon and you know it.

 

[kisakiproject]

That definition is garbage and only being posited to exclude pokémon and you know it.

I just said that I wasn't excluding Pokemon. And that is kindoff a JRPG. But do you really thing that the same Japanese gamers that buy FF and DQ are the majority that buy pokemon?

 

[duderon]

They are a group of people, japanese style, saving the world.. and that other classification.

You're being contentious.

And do you live in Antartica or something?! It's daytime man! Get out and exercise!

I can't believe the shit you type.

wait wait, scratch that.

I can't believe, you believe the shit you type.

 

[Kobun Heat]

How do you think Shigeru Miyamoto feels that his baby, his great game, got thwomped by Wii Sports and Wii Play?

He was jealous of Donkey Kong country
He was jealous of Banjo Kazooie
He didn't like the direction his baby metroid was taking for the GCN so he put it as a 1st person shooter...

Now his best game in a while is getting beaten and more press is going to a pack of... of.... you can't describe them. Worse yet, Eiji's first time as lead director for a Zelda title and it gets trounced in sales despite the good reviews.

Normally, when I see someone spewing grade-A bullshit out of their ass like this, it really annoys me. But it doesn't work with you, mostly because every time I read your posts I imagine the little bear in your avatar saying everything.

 

[kisakiproject]

So Mario and Luigi: Superstar Saga isn't a jRPG? Mother 3 isn't an RPG? Breath of Fire V isn't a jRPG? Every one of these violates at least one of your "criteria." How about Megaman Battle Network?

How do they not fall into it? MBN and Mother are turned based. You go on some world saving or something saving adventure. BF V is a depature as the developer stated but still the same. You have a party, your trying to reach the surface, its epic. All the mario Rpgs are turned based and have parties and leveling and saving the world.

 

[Kurosaki Ichigo]

BTW I didnt see Tales of Destiny remake on the top 30 chart.

><

We'll look at top50 tomorrow....but I guess we won't get any more ToD or Zelda numbers even from Famitsu until year ltd or the sporadic numbers we get from top100

 

[LanceStern]

Well if you include Pokemon, it would exclude all other jRPGs because they don't fit it...

Um I had another thing to say, but I forgot. Let's see....

If I'm not mistaken, Miyamot WAS jealous of all 3 of the titles I mentioned. So.... how is it grape A bs?

That wasn't what I was thinking, but it will have to do

 

[plagiarize]

They are a group of people, japanese style, saving the world.. and that other classification.

You're being contentious.

And do you live in Antartica or something?! It's daytime man! Get out and exercise!

i love this kind of comment. do *you* live in antartica too?

rpg is such a ridiculously loose genre that i don't see it as a genre really anyways. 'role playing' game. a game where you play a role. no wonder people get into all sorts of fights about what is and isn't an rpg.

trying to throw a hat over a bunch of games and give them a genre has always struck me as silly.

it's like FPS. like the genre is defined by where the camera is, making gears of war in a totally different genre purely because of that.

game genres are daft. film genres are easier. horror: tries to scare the audience. comedy: tries to make the audience laugh... and so on. but with games it's ridiculous because you have every film/novel genre as well as whole bunch of other constructs.

i mean, saying 'they're saving the world!' which world? does it matter? bit of an aside i know, but there you have it. my thoughts that you didn't ask for on game genres.

 

[kisakiproject]

I think Zelda we'll get #s from nintendo at some point. They say it sold "x" number of copies. I think Zelda will have some legs as Wii's user brase grows. I would expect it to sell a bit more in a year or two when it goes players choice.

 

[Tempy]

Holy shit this thread degenerated fast.

 

[LanceStern]

Just google the words "RPG formula" and look at all the stuff you get

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Well if you include Pokemon, it would exclude all other jRPGs because they don't fit it...

Um I had another thing to say, but I forgot. Let's see....

If I'm not mistaken, Miyamot WAS jealous of all 3 of the titles I mentioned. So.... how is it grape A bs?

That wasn't what I was thinking, but it will have to do

You do realize that Metroid is Gunpei Yokoi's "baby" and not Miyamoto's, right?

 

[kisakiproject]

You do realize that Metroid is Gunpei Yokoi's "baby" and not Miyamoto's, right?

Yeah that its ture. Poor gunpei :'(. I hope gunpey PSP and NDS sold well.

I doubt Miyamoto is pissed personaly since TP is more or less single handedly selling Wii in the US/Euro/PAL.

 

[LanceStern]

When did I say Metroid?

WOOPS O_O!!!

 

[Masklinn]

That's right. Saving the world is what makes a jRPG a jRPG.

Dammit, is Fallout a jRPG now?

shucks :/

I just said that I wasn't excluding Pokemon.

Yet you're endlessly doing just that, singling it out as "yeah nearly a jrpg but not exactly". Kinda "Yeah I've got a black friend" style.

 

[Tempy]

If non-games didnt sell we wouldnt have to do it. This week is an exception with the number of real games on the chart. As a gamer you should be concerned with the success of non-games because it means devs will make less real games.

For ****s sake. When is NeoGAF going to ****ing ban the people with their "oh noes gaming is dying because of non-games" crap? I guess never since some mods share the same opinion.

 

[kisakiproject]

Dammit, is Fallout a jRPG now?

shucks :/

Yet you're endlessly doing just that, singling it out as "yeah nearly a jrpg but not exactly". Kinda "Yeah I've got a black friend" style.

Fallout isn't made by a Japanese dev or have anime or japanese art.

Thats excluding? If I was excluding it I would say it wasnt a JRPG. I'm singling it out. And again none of you have answered the question? Do you think Pokemon's fanbase is predomiantly the same as DQ/FF and the other games we mentioned?

 

[LanceStern]

http://www.google.com/search?q=miyamoto+metroid&hl=en&lr=&start=10&sa=N
http://cube.ign.com/articles/354/354842p1.html
http://cube.ign.com/articles/617/617000p1.html

Miyamoto created Mario, Zelda, Donkey Kong, Pikmin.... big franchises. I absentmindedly clumped Metroid with it, and those links didn't help me at all in showing he's not affiliated with Metroid.

Ah well, I'm going to play smash now. I'll be back later to beat the dead horse

 

[kisakiproject]

For ****s sake. When is NeoGAF going to ****ing ban the people with their "oh noes gaming is dying because of non-games" crap? I guess never since some mods share the same opinion.

They have a different opinion than me. BAN them!

Gaming was already dead in Japan btw. Non-gaming just became big. But gaming has been dead in japan for years. The market shrank over the last decade only DS has increased it. Gaming is dead, DS is alive and both games an non games have potential to sell on it.

 

[trilobyte]

I'm dumb. What's MC?

 

[Kobun Heat]

I'm dumb. What's MC?

Let's nobody tell him.

 

[KINGMOKU]

Man this thread really became a pile of crap. Those worried about the sales of Zelda, should look to the Americas, and Europe+others to pick up the slack. It will still be a multi-million selling title, with very little problem. I think Europe is going to pick up whatever slack left in Japan(I still expect Zelda to do 500,000+eventually in Japan)

This is the first time Zelda is a launch title, so seeing great sales out of the gate are not going to happen.

I wonder what peoples reaction would be if a Final Fantasy title was a PS3 launch title, and sold with the same % as Zelda. Would it be doom and gloom for Final Fantasy as well?

The attach rate is fantastic worldwide, and the title should go on to sell more then 4million copies. Whats the problem here exactly?

As for the non-gme crap, good god is that getting old as hell.

 

[kisakiproject]

I'm dumb. What's MC?

Its arguably the most reliable japanese weekly software and hardware data tracking service. m-create.com/jpn/s_ranking.html

 

[Kurosaki Ichigo]

I'm dumb. What's MC?

Its a secret that only old nintendo ninjas know about...

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

They have a different opinion than me. BAN them!

Gaming was already dead in Japan btw. Non-gaming just became big. But gaming has been dead in japan for years. The market shrank over the last decade only DS has increased it. Gaming is dead, DS is alive and both games an non games have potential to sell on it.

So, just to make sure we're clear, you're bitching for the sake of bitching.

I mean, if gaming has been dead in Japan for years than you are flogging a dead horse by crying about non-games.

 

[plagiarize]

Fallout isn't made by a Japanese dev or have anime or japanese art.

Thats excluding? If I was excluding it I would say it wasnt a JRPG. I'm singling it out. And again none of you have answered the question? Do you think Pokemon's fanbase is predomiantly the same as DQ/FF and the other games we mentioned?

i don't think the fanbase of a game at all relates to what genre i'd put it in. i think only stuff in the actual game can do that.

 

[kisakiproject]

Man this thread really became a pile of crap. Those worried about the sales of Zelda, should look to the Americas, and Europe+others to pick up the slack. It will still be a multi-million selling title, with very little problem. I think Europe is going to pick up whatever slack left in Japan(I still expect Zelda to do 500,000+eventually in Japan)

This is the first time Zelda is a launch title, so seeing great sales out of the gate are not going to happen.

I wonder what peoples reaction would be if a Final Fantasy title was a PS3 launch title, and sold with the same % as Zelda. Would it be doom and gloom for Final Fantasy as well?

The attach rate is fantastic worldwide, and the title should go on to sell more then 4million copies. Whats the problem here exactly?

I think there would be FF is doomed threads.

As for Zelda your right. Its gonna sell easily 4 million worldwide. It will be huge in the US and europe. The reason people are freaking out is because it hasnt sold that great in Japan and nintendo tends to be Japan centric. Though people have ignored a move away from the japan centrism with Wii/DS launching in the US first.

 

[Tempy]

They were but what is a JRPG changed over time like everything changes overtime.

So DQ1 and FF1 used to be jrpgs, but now they're not? Wow. Just wow.

 

[kisakiproject]

So, just to make sure we're clear, you're bitching for the sake of bitching.

I mean, if gaming has been dead in Japan for years than you are flogging a dead horse by crying about non-games.

Yeah you do have a point there. Gaming has been dead. Non-gaming is just finishing the job... who knows.

So DQ1 and FF1 used to be jrpgs, but now they're not? Wow. Just wow.

FF1 has leveling, anime inspired graphics, parties, a saving the world style journey. It fits? Why does it not fit, cause you don't want it too?

 

[Pud]

Yeah you do have a point there. Gaming has been dead. Non-gaming is just finishing the job... who knows.

Note to self: GAF considers bowling/tennis/etc a non-game. *cry for GAF*

 

[Kurosaki Ichigo]

Btw, if you want, you can start making predictions for new games coming this week. We should have first day estimates tomorrow. These are the most interesting games this week:

(PS2) Secret of Evangelion
(PS2) Seiken Densetsu 4 (Dawn of Mana)
(PSP) Metal Gear Solid Portable Ops
(PSP) Tales of the World Radiant Mythlogy
(360) Lost Planet
(PS3) Armored Core 4
(PS3/360) Sonic the Hedgehog

I'll say ToW > MGS, Lost Planet and Armored Core 4 will have very low numbers so next-gen continues to dissapoint, Sonic will be a total bomb...dunno about Evangelion and Mana should do just good (~100k first day?). I think probably only Mana will enter top10 next week.

 

[KINGMOKU]

I think there would be FF is doomed threads.

As for Zelda your right. Its gonna sell easily 4 million worldwide. It will be huge in the US and europe. The reason people are freaking out is because it hasnt sold that great in Japan and nintendo tends to be Japan centric. Though people have ignored a move away from the japan centrism with Wii/DS launching in the US first.

Nintendo used to be Japan centric. I honestly think Reggie has had a massive impact on Nintendo as a whole, and Iwata has also had an impct in thinking more twords western gamers tastes.

Nintendo also knows that Japans hunger for games has fallen off a bit, and I am sure that they knew Zelda wouldn't sell 2million+ copies like it will in the U.S. alone. Thus the reason for not bundling Wiisports.

Nintendo is trying to reinvigerte the market, and from the looks of it its working. Titles like brain-age, nintendogs, animal crossing seem to have increased sales on NSMB, and Rockman(Great start BTW) so kudos to them.

The doom and gloom is completly un-warrented. Nintendo knows the market difference's.

 

[Tempy]

They have a different opinion than me. BAN them!

The moment some mod started banning "downgrade" is the moment other similar crap is vulnerable as well. Slippery slope

Gaming was already dead in Japan btw. Non-gaming just became big. But gaming has been dead in japan for years. The market shrank over the last decade only DS has increased it. Gaming is dead, DS is alive and both games an non games have potential to sell on it.

I'm sorry. Gaming isn't dead. Unless you somehow have an explanation of all those "real games" selling, like the millions of Dragon Quest 8s and Final Fantasy 12s. And Pokemon. Yes, Pokemon is a real game, it's even a jrpg. Deal with it.