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[Tempy]

FF1 has leveling, anime inspired graphics, parties, a saving the world style journey. It fits? Why does it not fit, cause you don't want it too?

Holy shit. What is wrong with you? I quoted you and commented on the stupidity of your statement of claiming how FF1 isn't a jrpg anymore, and you quote me back and comment that it is? It's YOU who claimed FF/DQ weren't jrpgs, and now you're turning the tables on me? WTF? Can you read?

 

[Masklinn]

Fallout isn't made by a Japanese dev or have anime or japanese art.

The former you didn't specify (so it doesn't count), the later can be provisioned for by your acceptation of the facts that "some jrpg may be missing one or two criteria".

By your rules, Fallout is a jrpg.

If I was excluding it I would say it wasnt a JRPG.

No you wouldn't, because you wouldn't dare do that.

And again none of you have answered the question? Do you think Pokemon's fanbase is predomiantly the same as DQ/FF and the other games we mentioned?

You do realise that DQ's fanbase (8 excepted, maybe) isn't the same as FF's fanbase in the first place don't you?

You do realise that the variance in jRPGs generate complely different fanbase between two different games which you both brand "jrpg" don't you?

You don't seem to...

 

[kisakiproject]

The moment some mod started banning "downgrade" is the moment other similar crap is vulnerable as well. Slippery slope



I'm sorry. Gaming isn't dead. Unless you somehow have an explanation of all those "real games" selling, like the millions of Dragon Quest 8s and Final Fantasy 12s. And Pokemon. Yes, Pokemon is a real game, it's even a jrpg. Deal with it.

Yup the fact that the Japanese gaming market has shrunk over the last decade doesn't exsist. The fact that there was negative grow untill DS came out doesnt exsist. Those sales tracking companies don't know what the **** they are talking about. Just cause market is shrinking doesnt mean that some things won't sell well.

 

[Tempy]

Yup the fact that the Japanese gaming market has shrunk over the last decade doesn't exsist. The fact that there was negative grow untill DS came out doesnt exsist. Those sales tracking companies don't know what the **** they are talking about. Just cause market is shrinking doesnt mean that some things won't sell well.

Here's a newsflash for you: The overwhelming majority of games on the DS....are ACTUAL games. And they sell too! AMAZING!

 

[SovanJedi]

Yup the fact that the Japanese gaming market has shrunk over the last decade doesn't exsist. The fact that there was negative grow untill DS came out doesnt exsist. Those sales tracking companies don't know what the **** they are talking about. Just cause market is shrinking doesnt mean that some things won't sell well.

Isn't this a stark contrast to what you were saying a minute ago about the DS KILLING THE JAPANESE MARKET?

You're just one big walking contradiction.

 

[kisakiproject]

Here's a newsflash for you: The overwhelming majority of games on the DS....are ACTUAL games. And they sell too! AMAZING!

Plenty of GAMES have sold on the DS and plenty haven't. You guys are taking you frustration over other peoples comments about non-gaming out on me. I said animal crossing was a game didnt I?

DS is the driving force behind the markets growth recovery in japan. Through non-games such as brain age, tamagotchi, brain age spinoffs. Also games such as nintendo sutff, SE stuff and some others have sold well too. DS is growth everything else is still "dead."

The former you didn't specify (so it doesn't count), the later can be provisioned for by your acceptation of the facts that "some jrpg may be missing one or two criteria".

By your rules, Fallout is a jrpg.

If I was excluding it I would say it wasnt a JRPG.[/quotemsg]
No you wouldn't, because you wouldn't dare do that.

And again none of you have answered the question? Do you think Pokemon's fanbase is predomiantly the same as DQ/FF and the other games we mentioned?[/quotemsg]
You do realise that DQ's fanbase (8 excepted, maybe) isn't the same as FF's fanbase in the first place don't you?

You do realise that the variance in jRPGs generate complely different fanbase between two different games which you both brand "jrpg" don't you?

You don't seem to...

You don't thin DQ and FF don't sell to mostly the same people? I'de disagree with you there but there is really no way to know.

Okay, fine, lets say Pokemon is a JRPG. Happy? FF3, DQ slimies, and Pokemon have sold well on NDS other JRPGs haven't been so fortunate.

 

[Xavien]

hmm... HW numbers better come out soon, its clear that this discussion about what constitutes a jRPG was caused by the sheer insanity of waiting for the all important hardware numbers.

 

[Mithos Yggdrasill]

My prediction:

Nintendo DS 400k
Wii 100k
PS3 50k
PSP 40k
PS2 30k
Xbox360 15k
GBA (all) 8k

 

[kisakiproject]

Thats right. Its MC fault. Damn them and their making us crazy. Those bastards!! If Lost Planet flops next week this thread is gonna go nuts................. Uh-oh.
:lol

I wish during the holidays they would have more than just top 10 numbers cause so much stuff sells so well.

 

[aeolist]

This is one of the most hilariously stupid threads to ever grace this shit-pile of a forum.

My hat is off to you, GAF.

 

[kisakiproject]

This is one of the most hilariously stupid threads to ever grace this shit-pile of a forum.

My hat is off to you, GAF.

Its only gonna get worse until people start owning 2 next gen consoles.

 

[duderon]

Thats right. Its MC fault. Damn them and their making us crazy. Those bastards!! If Lost Planet flops next week I'm gonna go nuts................. AGAIN.
:lol

I wish during the holidays they would have more than just top 10 numbers cause so much stuff sells so well.

Fixed for Media Create thread justice.

 

[kisakiproject]

Fixed for Media Create thread justice.

HAHAHA :lol

I'm counting on it to flop. Trust me. It will.

 

[Tempy]

...

Well enough craziness. If I go any further it'll really start being like competing at the Special Olympics.

On a brand new note. When do we get hardware numbers?

 

[kisakiproject]

4-6 hours. Unless we get lucky.

 

[charlequin]

Okay, fine, lets say Pokemon is a JRPG. Happy? FF3, DQ slimies, and Pokemon have sold well on NDS other JRPGs haven't been so fortunate.

Ethelred already pointed out how Rune Factory put up very good numbers, and the Naruto RPGs did very decently. M&L outsold its GBA installment.

And the two Namco PoSes really shouldn't even be counted. TotT was so short that people were able to beat it and report that fact on 2ch before the second day of sales. It's a perfect example of bad word-of-mouth killing a game's momentum.

Really the only RPG I can think of that hasn't performed well but wasn't a PoS is Magical Starsign, and heck if I can figure out why that is.

 

[kisakiproject]

Ethelred already pointed out how Rune Factory put up very good numbers, and the Naruto RPGs did very decently. M&L outsold its GBA installment.

And the two Namco PoSes really shouldn't even be counted. TotT was so short that people were able to beat it and report that fact on 2ch before the second day of sales. It's a perfect example of bad word-of-mouth killing a game's momentum.

Really the only RPG I can think of that hasn't performed well but wasn't a PoS is Magical Starsign, and heck if I can figure out why that is.

We just got back on topic.

I hope Baten Kaitos DS doesn't flop or Namco will be pissed.

 

[Krowley]

I think the whole "non gamer" term has become more of a blanket term for all DS's alternative/unique interactive software...

I've used it in this thread, but i certainly don't mean it as a troll... Just as a simple term to describe a phenomenon... If anyone finds it offensive, i apologize. I realize many of these "non-games" are actually games and some of them are actually fun. My sister got big brain academy for an early christmas present, along with a DS, and the whole family has been enjoying it. We've all gotten caught up in the competitive aspect of trying to beat each others scores.

And i personaly had a chance to try wii sports... I can't remember the last time i had so much fun playing a game at a party with friends.

 

[Tempy]

I kinda feel stupid now that I realize your "gaming is dead" quote wasn't meant as an attack on non-games, but rather that game sales in general was going down the toilet until the DS arrived. I'm too tired to figure out your wishy-washy posts to see if this is still somehow an attack on the DS or not, and I've ceased to really care. Ugh.

Does anyone have a nice and handy "orz" pic that we can use?

 

[nintendorly]

DS 600k
Wii 100k
PS3 40k
PSP 40k
PS2 40k
X360 5k

 

[kisakiproject]

We need the special olympics pic.

For the record I wasn't attacking the NDS.

DS 600k
Wii 100k
PS3 40k
PSP 40k
PS2 40k
X360 5k

prediction right?

 

[RaijinFY]

Yes.

 

[charlequin]

I hope Baten Kaitos DS doesn't flop or Namco will be pissed.

Baten Kaitos DS would have to actually exist for it to flop. :-(

 

[mariok]

When will the hardware sales come?

What are the sales of wario ware smooth moves?

 

[ethelred]

Yup Pokemon is the same thing as FF, DQ, Xeno, Tales, Breath of Fire, Suikoden, Shadow Hearts etc. Oh wait its not.

So in other words, you have no ****ing clue what an RPG is.

Guys, guys, we've reached a turning point here. Now we not only have non-games, we have non-RPGs, too! Wow! What's the next non-noun GAF will discover? Is Nintendo a non-company?

Pokemon is an RPG.

Shiren the Wanderer is an RPG, too, by the way, and it's sitting right there on that top 10 list with 88k in first week sales. WOW.

Kay. It doesn't have to just be made by japanese people which seems to be the your perspective. A JRPG is defind by its cliches. IMO

It has anime inspire or simialr graphics. You have to save the world. It usually turned based. It has multiable playable characters. Lots of monsters. Some epic music. Etc. see all the games I mentioned.

Pokemon doesn't really have this. Like I said before Pokemon is on the border line IMO. Its kindoff of a JRPG but kindofff not. Also when considering a genre I tend to think about its fanbase. The games I mentioned tend to sell to the same crowd. Whereas pokemon sells to a different group of people. Not to say that there arent plenty of people that don't buy both. But they in general sell to different people.

Yeah. Wow. That's not the definition of what an RPG is. But thanks for playing along at home.

That was a good definition, and you defended that very well I might say

If that's a very good definition, Lance, then your poster child, Magical Starsign, isn't an RPG either.

Why do you find it unreasonable Buikaru?

Suikoden
Tales
Final Fantasy
Baten Kitos
Magna Cart
Dragon Quest
Freath of Fire
magical Starsign
etc.

Group of people
Japanese style look
Save the world/somebody
Usually turned based
Minigames and sidequests abound

Pokemon differes from them. Don't laugh. It was a reasonable definition

It wasn't reasonable. The only reasonable way to define an RPG now is "save the world?" We define genres by adhering to strict storyline cliches? What lunacy.

How do they not fall into it? MBN and Mother are turned based. You go on some world saving or something saving adventure. BF V is a depature as the developer stated but still the same. You have a party, your trying to reach the surface, its epic. All the mario Rpgs are turned based and have parties and leveling and saving the world.

Jesus Christ.

Pokemon has parties. Pokemon has leveling. Pokemon is turn-based. It is an RPG. You don't save the world, just like you don't save the ****ing world in Breath of Fire V, Suikoden I - V, the Mario RPGs, or a slew of the rest of the genre.

 

[kisakiproject]

We saidJRPG not RPG. We we're discussing a specific type of rpg and what falls under it.

Way to bring up an already ended argument.

 

[farnham]

why...? oh why..????

 

[ethelred]

We saidJRPG not RPG. We we're discussing a specific type of rpg and what falls under it.

Way to bring up an already ended argument.

A JRPG is an RPG made in Japan by Japanese people. What do you think the J stands for?

 

[Soul4ger]

Way to bring up an already ended argument.

Your avatar is ****ing creepy.

A JRPG is an RPG made in Japan by Japanese people. What do you think the J stands for?

I thought it meant Jewish.

 

[duderon]

We saidJRPG not RPG. We we're discussing a specific type of rpg and what falls under it.

Way to bring up an already ended argument.

We understand that you don't know what a JRPG is now. Please stop trying to stupify us please.

 

[Kiriku]

Oh sweet, another one of those "the definite RPG definition" threads.

 

[kisakiproject]

A JRPG is an RPG made in Japan by Japanese people. What do you think the J stands for?

My argument was that there was more to it than that. It was type of RPG made by japanse people not just an japanse dev rpg. But the point is already moot seeing as the people discussing had decided to stop since we all werent chaning our minds. I don''t wanna argue with a Panzer Dragoon fan. Lets just stay on topic and let opinions be what they are.

We understand that you don't know what a JRPG is now. Please stop trying to stupify us please.

I'm not we stopped discussing it. Nobody wants to talk about it anymore.

 

[farnham]

A JRPG is an RPG made in Japan by Japanese people. What do you think the J stands for?

Jumbo RPG

you know like

J

R

P

G

 

[ethelred]

Ethelred already pointed out how Rune Factory put up very good numbers, and the Naruto RPGs did very decently. M&L outsold its GBA installment.

And the two Namco PoSes really shouldn't even be counted. TotT was so short that people were able to beat it and report that fact on 2ch before the second day of sales. It's a perfect example of bad word-of-mouth killing a game's momentum.

Really the only RPG I can think of that hasn't performed well but wasn't a PoS is Magical Starsign, and heck if I can figure out why that is.

Yeah. Magical Starsign's sales are a bit puzzling and disappointing, but hey, these things happen, I guess. But yeah, Rune Factory's done very well (104k), Tingle RPG (190k), Digimon (213k), Naruto RPG 2 (136k), Naruto RPG 3 (80k)... and I'm really, really pleased with Shiren's first week sales (88k). It should end up with an excellent lifetime total.

 

[kisakiproject]

Yeah. Magical Starsign's sales are a bit puzzling and disappointing, but hey, these things happen, I guess. But yeah, Rune Factory's done very well (104k), Tingle RPG (190k), Digimon (213k), Naruto RPG 2 (136k), Naruto RPG 3 (80k)... and I'm really, really pleased with Shiren's first week sales (88k). It should end up with an excellent lifetime total.

Those are decent sales. Whats Shiren about anyways?

 

[farnham]

Yeah. Magical Starsign's sales are a bit puzzling and disappointing, but hey, these things happen, I guess. But yeah, Rune Factory's done very well (104k), Tingle RPG (190k), Digimon (213k), Naruto RPG 2 (136k), Naruto RPG 3 (80k)... and I'm really, really pleased with Shiren's first week sales (88k). It should end up with an excellent lifetime total.

tingle did similar numbers to zelda..

next zelda game... will be the LEGEND OF TINGLE!

 

[slaughterking]

G

Tingle! :O

 

[tsef]

I think the whole "non gamer" term has become more of a blanket term for all DS's alternative/unique interactive software...

Well people spewing non game all the time was fun at the start. Now it really is becoming offensive to me. Most of us have been playing game for a long time now we started as young people and grew with the industry following wherever it went.
Now some people in the industry saw that growth was somewhere else. What some here call "traditional gamers" is small subset of the general population and the gaming industry as already reached the majority of us. Nintendo feels it has to change in order to reach these new people. So it gives us brain training and such and low and behold their strategy works, well at least in Japan.
Now old style gamers are in a minority, but what some don't understand is that we always have been. Gamers were considered to be in the same group as D&D players, we are nerds, no-life and so on. How many here are encouraged by their parents to go and play some GoW ? My dad would rather see me outside playing some soccer rather than sitting in front of my screen.

In my opinion people outraged by the success of Wii Sports and the like, look like boys whose secret club has been discovered by the girls and they want to keep them out. But it won't work the girls will get in if they really feel like it.
I think that we are in a transition period right now, a lot of those quirky games are coming out and they are really working well because of the novelty aspect. But a few years (maybe months) from now it will all even out, we'll get those big franchise we are lusting after, they will still sale as much but they won't represent 80% of the console owners more like 30-40%

Disclaimer : I have lots of black fri... well I have a 360

 

[kisakiproject]

Get those girls out of my club house. Kissing girls is so g*y. LOL

Its true though. I won't deny it. I don't like non-gaming cause I don't want non-gamers touching my shit. I'll admit it.

 

[Krowley]

Well people spewing non game all the time was fun at the start. Now it really is becoming offensive to me. Most of us have been playing game for a long time now we started as young people and grew with the industry following wherever it went.
Now some people in the industry saw that growth was somewhere else. What some here call "traditional gamers" is small subset of the general population and the gaming industry as already reached the majority of us. Nintendo feels it has to change in order to reach these new people. So it gives us brain training and such and low and behold their strategy works, well at least in Japan.
Now old style gamers are in a minority, but what some don't understand is that we always have been. Gamers were considered to be in the same group as D&D players, we are nerds, no-life and so on. How many here are encouraged by their parents to go and play some GoW ? My dad would rather see me outside playing some soccer rather than sitting in front of my screen.

In my opinion people outraged by the success of Wii Sports and the like, look like boys whose secret club has been discovered by the girls and they want to keep them out. But it won't work the girls will get in if they really feel like it.
I think that we are in a transition period right now, a lot of those quirky games are coming out and they are really working well because of the novelty aspect. But a few years (maybe months) from now it will all even out, we'll get those big franchise we are lusting after, they will still sale as much but they won't represent 80% of the console owners more like 30-40%

Disclaimer : I have lots of black fri... well I have a 360

oh i think the whole touch generation software is very interesting...

The DS is almost becoming like a mini pc in some respects. It's software is vastly more wide ranging than a normal game console. And obviously hardcore oriented games are still being made for it and they're actually selling now.

 

[Taurus]

Hardware. When?

 

[jesusraz]

If Nintendo's 1,000 Recipes sold roughly ~48,000 units last week and débuted at No.14 (going off the numbers available from last week), and sinobi states it's around 100,000 units in total for its second week, that means the No.15 position is ~52,000, showing just how strong a week it is for software sales...

 

[splattergnome]

I am just happy that Sega's Fushigi no Dungeon: Furai no Shiren is doing so well, considering that the SNES original has been recieving such great reviews - I would love to see Sega take the chance and finally bring the game over. I love roguelikes, but I haven't ever played a Japanese console version of them - and Shiren is supposedly the best of the lot.

 

[Bearillusion]

Hardware. When?

3 hoursish.

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

Early works in genres tend not to be the same as what the genre grows into. That applies to anything. Early horror filsm are different form modern one. Early rock music is different from current rock music. Things change, early games build the framework but often don't fit into the mold they grow into. The original FF and DQ are so different from the modern ones its hard to believe they were even made by the same people.

Holy shit. You're absolutely nuts. And absolutely retarded if these last few pages are any indication of your intelligence level.

To merely even suggest that DRAGON QUEST is NOT a Japanese-style RPG just makes me laugh! It makes me laugh very, very loudly! I can hardly contain my self when I opened this thread and came to the discovery. I didn't think I would ever find such a thing. Why don't you go join Iran in their denouncement of the Holocaust? It might suit you and your make believe!

Even IF you compare DQ to DQ VIII, aside from a GRAPHICAL representation, NOTHING HAS REALLY CHANGED. *shock*

Here's a hint: try out Dragon Quest VII. You'll see that it's really just Dragon Quest in disguise, over a decade or so later. Nothing at heart has changed. Any indication otherwise for the Dragon Quest series (until IX) is a joke - a product of someone trying to fool themselves in to believing something else.

And why you may consider the argument "ended" merely because the only other voice of reason that was directly challenging you has decided to give up on your existence (not counting ye olde Fallout guy. Good one, I liked that, heh.). This doesn't mean you "won" anything.

EDIT: ESPECIALLY that last bit (bolded). You CLEARLY haven't even PLAYED Dragon Quest as a series if you have the inane nerve to make such a claim. Dragon Quest, of all things quite honestly, is one of the most READILY apparent examples of continued game design, unaltered by "change".

////

In regards to "banning" the terminology of "non-game" - sure, let's go ahead and keep on banning things so that the population continually goes down a continually narrow path. That seems like a plan if I've ever heard one...

 

[kisakiproject]

I've never played dragon quest 1. Thats true. But it was told to me under my characteristics it would not be a JRPG. I never said that. I said genre grow to change over time. However, I don't see how DQ1 wouldn't fit under what I said was a JRPG. I was speaking about how FF1 is more like a D&D game than modern JRPG norms. How things have changed drastically in the series. I was assuming that DQ had changed as well. But if nothing has changed in the series then yes the original would fit in fine with modern JRPGS.

And again are you missing the fact that we got back on topic. But I guess you ahd to bring it up because your opinion is some how devine and needed to be stated even though lots of people said what you already said.

As for banning. If you ban people that say "non-game" don;t forget to ban the nintentards while your at it.

 

[castle007]

I am very late to this MC thread

But anyways, the DS continues its domination. But Zelda WHY!!!!!!

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

I've never played dragon quest 1. Thats true.

A good start to understanding the fundamentals of what makes an Japanese RPG exactly that would be to play these original classics that hailed so much fame. I beg to ask this question, how much of the Dragon Quest series have you played at all?

But it was told to me under my characteristics it would not be a JRPG.

You know why that is, right? It's because "your characteristics" are absolutely insane. That's the same reason that Fallout/2 fit in to your wild "characteristics". Because they're generic and not very well thought out. Granted, this is from the same guy who doesn't consider Pokemon an RPG..

Did you ever play Pokemon Red during its advent? I would imagine not, but it's plausible.

However, I don't see how DQ1 wouldn't fit under what I said was a JRPG.

Here's a thought: go play it and find out. You'll learn a lot more that way then making references to games you've never played. Dragon Quest is the epitome of what a traditional Japanese RPG is. There is no other on the same level of fame and interest in that nation, though there are some close.

I was speaking about how FF1 is more like a D&D game than modern JRPG norms. How things have changed drastically in the series. I was assuming that DQ had changed as well. But if nothing has changed in the series then yes the original would fit in fine with modern JRPGS.

So earlier you "don't see how DQ would fit" but now if it "hasn't changed" it would "fit in fine with modern Japanese RPGS"? Wild. I see where your D&D comment stems from, but it's inaccuracy lies in the obvious truth that you've never played any of the older TRUE D&D based RPGs developed in the west. If you had played those, you'd realize it's not at all like Final Fantasy. But I assume you haven't. And while you make baseless assumptions, I already have pieces of evidence that likely point to this conclusion.

And again are you missing the fact that we got back on topic. But I guess you ahd to bring it up because your opinion is some how devine and needed to be stated even though lots of people said what you already said.

That's right. Dragon Quest being a Japanese RPG is a "divine opinion". Nah, I think I merely desired to point out your gross misunderstanding of what a Japanese RPG is. I care not about your desire to deviate from this point you "pulled up" and now wish to disregard so easily when it was previously of most import. Only when it is convenient for you would you like to jump on this lifeboat and sail away? Nah. I'll be the anchor that holds you to your words.

And it's good that lots of people "said what I said already". That means a decent amount of people here have sense. Care to listen?

 

[Y2Kev]

I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE LAST TWO PAGES

 

[xaosslug]

no hardware, no care.