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[ethelred]

Oh come on. The DS has sold 80 million games and the PSP 15 million games in Japan. On software sales, the DS is 84% of the market. ... It's easy to overstate the success and importance of anything by lumping it in with something more successful and claiming that 'between them they did great'.

No. Between the two of them, they are doing great. The PSP isn't simply a medium for moving gaming software, this is true -- but so what? It's bringing expanded functionality to handheld gaming devices, which has helped it to appeal to more people... just as the DS did with its non/casual-gamer targeted software. A lot of people have bought the DS for dictionary software, for educational tools, for recipe collections and cooking aids; a lot of people have bought the PSP for storage, for TV watching, for a variety of other purposes.

If you look at what the PSP is doing in addition to the DS, compared to prior handheld generations like the GBA+WS, it's really impressive how they've both managed to become very successful platforms and expand the portable market together.

 

[jarrod]

I dunno, PSP and 360 (bizzarely) seem like the favorties for new software releases next week imo. Maybe NMH will surprise, but I sort of doubt it. :/

 

[DayShallCome]

No. Between the two of them, they are doing great. The PSP isn't simply a medium for moving gaming software, this is true -- but so what? It's bringing expanded functionality to handheld gaming devices, which has helped it to appeal to more people... just as the DS did with its non/casual-gamer targeted software. A lot of people have bought the DS for dictionary software, for educational tools, for recipe collections and cooking aids; a lot of people have bought the PSP for storage, for TV watching, for a variety of other purposes.

If you look at what the PSP is doing in addition to the DS, compared to prior handheld generations like the GBA+WS, it's really impressive how they've both managed to become very successful platforms and expand the portable market together.

Right, but the PSP is more akin to a cell phone or palm pilot in its market influence. I won't deny that PSP is a successful portable platform (for Sony), but to say it's a successful portable gaming platform is stretching things (I know that's not what you said, I'm just clarifying things).

Of course, the same could be said of DS, as a lot of its software sales are from casual titles. Still, when the gap between DS software and PSP software is as large as it is, it's hard to really couple DS and PSP when talking about the health of the portable gaming industry as a whole.

 

[mckmas8808]

As we keep discussing PSP software and piracy so much, it is worth considering that the average PSP owner could have as many or more games to play on their PSP as the average DS owner. It's just that those games wouldn't show up in software charts. From a philosophical standpoint, the PSP could really be opening up portable gaming to the console-only PS2 crowd and thus expanding portable gaming's influence. It just wouldn't help the publisher's bottom line.

Every smart person in GAF knows that this is the honest truth. And like many of those console only people, they don't buy many handheld games because it's not in their nature. Plus when they can play some handheld games it's not good for the publishers if they are just pirating old games to play.

 

[jj984jj]

Famitsu

DSL 126000
PSP 78000
PS2 15000
PS3 41000
Wii 71000
360 5200

1-10
1.Layton2　308000
2.Wii Fit　254000
3.SD Gundam ggene spirits (PS2)　231000
4.DQ4　132000（734000）
5.BASARA2 Heroes PS2　94000
6.WE2008PS2　89000（395000）
7.Mario Party DS　57000（521000）
8.Mario & Sonic　42000（109000）
9.Yugioh wcs2008 (DS)　39000
10.SMG　36000（452000）

Others
12.WE2008 PS3　31000（176000）
14.Wii Sports　27000（2162000）
15.Wii Play　26000（1707000）
18.Musou5 PS3　15000（295000）
19.がんばる私の家計ダイアリー (DS)　14000（310000）
21.REUC　13000（147000）
22.Mario Kart DS　13000（2566000）
24.Layton1　12000（696000）
26.Pokemon dungeon 　12000（1076000）
27.MHP2　11000（1387000）

New Games
11.Assassins Creed　34000
16.Natuto2 Wii　20000
17.Disgaea PSP　17000
25.Precure5 DS　12000
外.BASARA2 Heroes Wii　8600
外.Izuna2　6500
外.Super Swing Golf Season 2　6500
外.GUILTY GEAR 2 -OVERTURE-　5300
外.Another Century's Episode 2 Special Vocal Version　4900
外.Kabutore Next　3400
外.Tony Hawk's Project 8 PS3　1800
外.Tony Hawk's Project 8 360　1100

Go Layton 2 and DQIV! Hopefully the continued DS games success will help ToI this week!

P.S. Basara 2H Wii, Naruto 2 Wii, SSGS2, GG2:O and Izuna 2 all bomba.

 

[Magicpaint]

I think it's pretty impressive the way Layton jumped up the charts without a best price re-release to coincide with 2. I guess a few people thought it would be nice to start with the first game.

 

[SRG01]

Nice numbers for Wii Fit, but Wii numbers are kind of shocking. I was kind of expecting a bit more...

 

[Forgotten Ancient]

Great Wiifit numbers and nice to see the Wii getting a healthy boost.. Are Famitsu numbers normally the same as Media Create?

Nice pun

 

[Arde5643]

Nice numbers for Wii Fit, but Wii numbers are kind of shocking. I was kind of expecting a bit more...

WiiFit will be really huge thanks to word-of-mouth - casuals will be flocking in pretty soon a la Wii situation in US.
Casuals rarely buy games day one, so expect fukin strong legs for WiiFit. :lol

 

[tanod]

Every smart person in GAF knows that this is the honest truth. And like many of those console only people, they don't buy many handheld games because it's not in their nature. Plus when they can play some handheld games it's not good for the publishers if they are just pirating old games to play.

Personally, if the PSP hadn't come out, I don't think I would have ever cared about the DS or picked one up.

 

[Mithos Yggdrasill]

No. Between the two of them, they are doing great. The PSP isn't simply a medium for moving gaming software, this is true -- but so what? It's bringing expanded functionality to handheld gaming devices, which has helped it to appeal to more people... just as the DS did with its non/casual-gamer targeted software. A lot of people have bought the DS for dictionary software, for educational tools, for recipe collections and cooking aids; a lot of people have bought the PSP for storage, for TV watching, for a variety of other purposes.

If you look at what the PSP is doing in addition to the DS, compared to prior handheld generations like the GBA+WS, it's really impressive how they've both managed to become very successful platforms and expand the portable market together.

You're forgetting that an handheld where games don't sell well is not a big opportunity for Third parties. And Developers care only about software's sales.

 

[thestopsign]

Hey Joshua, could you get a graph up of the 360 vs. Xbox? I know you've done it before, but with the recent increase in 360's weekly sales I think it would be interesting to see. The 360 seems like it could make some headway, maybe up to ~700k by the end of it's lifetime assuming it starts to decline after this Christmas.

 

[tanod]

Hey Joshua, could you get a graph up of the 360 vs. Xbox? I know you've done it before, but with the recent increase in 360's weekly sales I think it would be interesting to see. The 360 seems like it could make some headway, maybe up to ~700k by the end of it's lifetime assuming it starts to decline after this Christmas.

FYI: The 360 LTD has already passed the original XBOX LTD.

 

[ethelred]

You're forgetting that an handheld where games don't sell well is not a big opportunity for Third parties. And Developers care only about software's sales.

And yet... publishers keep announcing new PSP games.

 

[Raist]

FYI: The 360 LTD has already passed the original XBOX LTD.

What ? Didn't the original XBox sell like 24million ?


edit : nevermind, I guess you meant at the 2years time point.
edit2 : or what schuelma said

 

[Mithos Yggdrasill]

And yet... publishers keep announcing new PSP games.

Because after all games are selling, contrary to what the majority of Gaffers think and contrary to what you said. Maybe it is not the DS, but good games sell quite well on PSP. The problem is that they don't come out very often.

 

[schuelma]

What ? Didn't the original XBox sell like 24million ?

In Japan

 

[Link648099]

And yet... publishers keep announcing new PSP games.

And Wii software. They must be getting something from it.

Your state of the handheld industry post above was strikingly accurate. You might want to be careful around here though, people get shot, bludgeoned with PsWii60, and stomped on for less.

 

[Crusade]

Because after all games are selling, contrary to what the majority of Gaffers think and contrary to what you said. Maybe it is not the DS, but good games sell quite well on PSP. The problem is that they don't come out very often.

Watch out, I got attacked for saying almost exactly this last week. :lol

 

[Mithos Yggdrasill]

Watch out, I got attacked for saying almost exactly this last week. :lol

It is my opinion and Ethelred knows that if he tries to trap me I simply escape the conversation. Discussions are always constructives, as long as there is respect.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Because after all games are selling, contrary to what the majority of Gaffers think and contrary to what you said. Maybe it is not the DS, but good games sell quite well on PSP. The problem is that they don't come out very often.

Yeah, Crush, Dracula X, Ultimate Ghouls n Ghosts, and RockmanRockman especially tore up the charts!

 

[Akia]

wtf why is this thread so big? did all the new members just flock to the media create threads?

these things usually reach 12-15 pages but 25 wtf happened?

 

[Kurosaki Ichigo]

I find the PSP bitching pretty amusing when its clearly having its sweet moment. Can anyone here tell me a PSP game that did bad since the Slim model launch? And yeah, I can make out by myself that every hardware unit sold isn't selling 5 copies of software in the top30 for you to notice.

Just as I say this, the 3 PSP releases this week will bomb to shut me up....but until then hey, party time.

 

[reilo]

Yeah, Crush, Dracula X, Ultimate Ghouls n Ghosts, and RockmanRockman especially tore up the charts!

wtf why is this thread so big?

The question ought to be why it is not bigger!

 

[Lobster]

Famitsu
DSL 126000
PSP 78000
PS2 15000
PS3 41000
Wii 71000
360 5200

1-10
1.Layton2　308000
2.Wii Fit　254000
3.SD Gundam ggene spirits (PS2)　231000
4.DQ4　132000(734000)
5.BASARA2 Heroes PS2　94000
6.WE2008PS2　89000(395000)
7.Mario Party DS　57000(521000)
8.Mario & Sonic　42000(109000)
9.Yugioh wcs2008 (DS)　39000
10.SMG　36000(452000)

Mmm I was right about my Wii numbers prediction.

Wow at Mario and Sonic btw! It looks like its going to have some legs!

Oh and it looks like my self prediction was right..Capcom aren't shipping more copies of Umbrella Chronicles...

SMG is doing alright, soon to hit 500k. Its going to be a tough climb to a million though..a really tough climb.

 

[levious]

wtf why is this thread so big?

for once, you can really blame Wii Fit

 

[apotema]

Go Layton 2 and DQIV! Hopefully the continued DS games success will help ToI this week!

P.S. Basara 2H Wii, Naruto 2 Wii, SSGS2, GG2:O and Izuna 2 all bomba.

Unfortunately ToI has a shipment of only 150,000 copies or something like that

 

[Rocksteady33]

for once, you can really blame Wii Fit

:lol

 

[Error]

4.DQ4　 - 132,000 （734,000)

nice numbers, tracking a bit behind the PS1 version tho, but not by much.

PS1 Dragon Quest IV 621K 143K 72K ... 1.17 million (20021229)

DQ4 PS1 first two weeks = 764k

 

[Hellsing321]

Looks like Wii Fit is boosting other Wii software. Maybe SMG has a chance in Japan after all.

 

[Magicpaint]

I find the PSP bitching pretty amusing when its clearly having its sweet moment. Can anyone here tell me a PSP game that did bad since the Slim model launch?

I don't think it's bitching, it's more or less a valid concern. In the face of its voluminous hardware sales, the PSP's software presence in the charts has been less than desireable. I guess releases have been a little thin though, and there are small scale releases that have done fairly well, like Castlevania and MPO+. What the PSP needs is a second chance by a lot of Japanese developers that worte it off before the Slim model launched.

Just as I say this, the 3 PSP releases this week will bomb to shut me up....but until then hey, party time.

Hopefully Minna no Golf Portable 2 does well. Infact I think it has a good chance of topping next week's chart, we'll see.

Unfortunately ToI has a shipment of only 150,000 copies or something like that

Which is probably more than enough, actually. I don't think a lot of people care anymore after Tempest.

4.DQ4　 - 132,000 （734,000)

nice numbers, tracking a bit behind the PS1 version tho, but not by much.



DQ4 PS1 first two weeks = 764k

I think the fact that it's even tracking so closely to the PS1 version is incredibly impressive. Like someone pointed out last week, none of the other portable DQ remakes sold that close to their console counterparts.

 

[ethelred]

That was me.

 

[stilgar]

That was me.

No! Sure?

 

[donny2112]

Personally, if the PSP hadn't come out, I don't think I would have ever cared about the DS or picked one up.

That's a very interesting position. When it was just the GBA, did you dismiss handheld gaming out of hand? Maybe the PSP helped bring attention to the handheld market, regardless of its own success in the handheld market, and the DS was then able to tap into some of that newfound interest?

Can anyone here tell me a PSP game that did bad since the Slim model launch?

Depends on what you consider bad. PSP titles released since CC:FFVII that charted.

system	title				1stWK	LTD
PSP	Gundam Battle Chronicle		86538	188374
PSP	MGS: Portable Ops+			88940	177895
PSP	Yu-Gi-Oh! GX Tag Force 2		30168	45400
PSP	Eiyuu Densetsu Sora no Kiseki SC	25881	25881
PSP	MGS: Portable Ops+ Deluxe Pack	14775	24030
PSP	Castlevania: The Dracula X		20458	20458
PSP	Wangan Midnight Portable		10150	10150
PSP	Dungeon Explorer: Warrior 		7793	7793
PSP	Anata o Yurusanai			7502	7502

There's always the stuff that never charted, too. Also, the weekly % for PSP software had dropped back to what it was pre-CC:FFVII, as well.

 

[Magicpaint]

That was me.

Ah, wasn't sure if it was you or Donny.

-- Oh yeah, forgot Gundam Battle Chronicle, that sold better than its predecessor, which was nice.

 

[Mithos Yggdrasill]

Yeah, Crush, Dracula X, Ultimate Ghouls n Ghosts, and RockmanRockman especially tore up the charts!

Dude, not all of course. Anyway, better stop with this discussion, because it could not end well.

 

[Busaiku]

Which is probably more than enough, actually. I don't think a lot of people care anymore after Tempest.

I think it may not be enough.

Despite Tempest leaving a bad taste in Tales fans' mouths, it didn't perform that badly, I think. Going by Moor-Angol's site (where it's at 196k LTD), it's probably done a bit more 200k by now (and it started at 83k), though I'm not sure what BandaiNamco's expectations were.

Right now DS seems to be hitting a nice stride with RPG gamers with DQIV (or maybe it's just DQ gamers), so I think it could perform quite a bit better, if given the shipments. Though I can't really say for sure.

In any case, 150k seems like too insignificant an amount.

 

[Pureauthor]

It's Namco, people. When was the last time they made a good financial decision?

(Speaking of which, where's the source for the 150K initial shipment?)

 

[The Innocent X]

Hey Joshua, could you get a graph up of the 360 vs. Xbox? I know you've done it before, but with the recent increase in 360's weekly sales I think it would be interesting to see. The 360 seems like it could make some headway, maybe up to ~700k by the end of it's lifetime assuming it starts to decline after this Christmas.

Joshua posted it a while back and I think it auto updates each week based on Famitsu .His site seems to be down though

http://joshuajamesslone.name/gamech...cker[0]=fam&system[1]=X360&date[1]=2005-12-05

360 is tracking well ahead of Xbox. Next week should be another boost over recent trends.

 

[Magicpaint]

I think it may not be enough.

Despite Tempest leaving a bad taste in Tales fans' mouths, it didn't perform that badly, I think. Going by Moor-Angol's site (where it's at 196k LTD), it's probably done a bit more 200k by now (and it started at 83k), though I'm not sure what BandaiNamco's expectations were.

Yes, it did perform badly. It sold ~50k in its first day and then price collapse happened the very next day and it plummeted to as low as 500 yen before it exhausted the initial shipment. Awful. TotW: RM for PSP (which was a spin-off) put in better numbers, and to top it off, the game was terrible for the series standards, and that can greatly hurt the perception of ToI.

It only makes sense that they'd be more cautious this time around, whether or not those figures are good (compared to the series in general they're not) though is an entirely different matter. But I think those figures make sense.

(Speaking of which, where's the source for the 150K initial shipment?)

I think that came from Sinobi (from last week), though I'm not sure if that was confirmed to be true or not.

 

[Busaiku]

Yes, it did perform badly. It sold ~50k in its first day and then price collapse happened the very next day and it plummeted to as low as 500 yen before it exhausted the initial shipment. Awful. TotW: RM for PSP (which was a spin-off) put in better numbers, and to top it off, the game was terrible for the series standards, and that can greatly hurt the perception of ToI.

It only makes sense that they'd be more cautious this time around, whether or not those figures are good (compared to the series in general they're not) though is an entirely different matter. But I think those figures make sense..

Ahh, yeah, I completely forgot to think of the price collapse.

 

[jj984jj]

Unfortunately ToI has a shipment of only 150,000 copies or something like that

Let's hope they sell out in the first week!

 

[tanod]

That's a very interesting position. When it was just the GBA, did you dismiss handheld gaming out of hand?

Yep. Pretty much assumed that all of the software was shovelware and wasn't worth my money.

There's three main reasons why I now game on handhelds when I hadn't since the original Gameboy:
-I think the biggest innovation in this handheld generation is the sleep mode. I can tap the power button on my PSP or close my DS and come back to it at anytime.
-I'd say the technical quality of handheld games has made some huge strides in recent years. Better developers doing better work.
-The screens and resolution of the games are also huge advances from what came before them.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Wow at Mario and Sonic btw!

Yeah, I had a feeling that this would be one that gains traction in Japan. Let's see how long it lasts.

 

[edwardslane]

i predicted 251,000 for wii fit!~ i was close.

How many days on the market for 251k? 3-4?

wii has been steadily climbing the last couple weeks. Is wii fit the last significant title until smash brothers brawl on wii?

 

[Kurosaki Ichigo]

Depends on what you consider bad.

Well, lets say that I'm not using a 300k barrier to differentiate between good and bad, and I hope no one does

 

[*Guaraná]

How many days on the market for 251k? 3-4?

2.

 

[pickwick]

How many days on the market for 251k? 3-4?
?

Only 2.

 

[blitz64]

for once, you can really blame Wii Fit

As for why this thread is so big, I don't think it's WiiFit. It's because of the difference between MC and Famitsu sales number for Wii and ps3. Many people argue ps3 won for week 11/19-25th.

This doesn't usually happen often but everything might go back to normal after this week when it's the usual Nintendomination for hardware sales.

 

[birdchili]

It's Namco, people. When was the last time they made a good financial decision?

Katamari?