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[LanceStern]

That is literally, yes, literally, the dumbest thing I've ever read.

I guess you didn't read this then:

``We have to sell at least 500,000 copies per title worldwide to make a profit on PlayStation 3 games,'' said Takasu. He said titles for the new Sony console are ``selling well.''

 

[LanceStern]

Lance, Lance, Lance...

Mushi King was one game. One game which was a hit.

The EXE games consistently met with high sales. There were five of them (not counting the many different versions of the same five games) on the GBA. They consistently were successful.

You have one game that's a hit, but proves to be a fluke when its single sequel doesn't succeed. You then have a series that has been consistently successful, and gee, there's a bit more confidence the latest entry will succeed.

Again: Does any of this make any sense?

And how does this explain the results of Tales of the Tempest and Winning Eleven for the DS?

 

[Terrell]

No no no it's still not there yet ethel. Only 2 companies have succeded in getting titles over EVEN 300k in Japan and that's Namco/Bandai and Square Enix. Each with essentially only ONE title. Sega has recently joined them, and Atari (if we had updated numbers) would also succeed.

DS, with a 12.5 million installed base (rough yea), should not only have 3 third party companies with one game selling over 300,000. I like aesthetics. I like the roundness of 300k, but I'd rather not break out into this again.

Ummm... did you ever see the majority of PS2 game sales? Even after 6 years and HOW many systems sold... Sony's got the same problem. Let's not be so one-sided about this, everyone knows that only the biggest of big names sold on PS2, as well.

 

[ethelred]

And how does this explain the results of Tales of the Tempest and Winning Eleven for the DS?

How was it supposed to?

This is not a blanket mathematical formula! X = Y does not apply across every game on every platform. Mega Man Star Force has nothing to do with Mushi King which has nothing to do with Tempest which has nothing to do with Winning Eleven.

 

[cartman414]

And how does this explain the results of Tales of the Tempest and Winning Eleven for the DS?

Wasn't it acknowledged that both games were considered disappointments from a quality standpoint?

 

[Maridia]

I guess you didn't read this then:

Takasu fails to mention the peril of being "flamed/trolled to death" on the Internet for having "ugly numbers." He also didn't preface it with an anecdote about how he undercut his friend on pricing in a high school fundraiser, and still made less profit. Therefore, you remain the winner.

 

[Branduil]

11 PS2 games sold 300k+ in 2001.
11 DS games sold 300k+ in 2005.

Failures, both of them. Sega will have the last laugh when the Splorgenberg is released in 2009, using the combined power a Cell processor, a Wii remote, and a piece of lint.

 

[Mr. Pointy]

And how does this explain the results of Tales of the Tempest and Winning Eleven for the DS?

Those two were shit and the hardcore avoided them. The Tales fans had learned to avoid a shit game after buying Legendia. And the WE fans had learned to avoid a shit WE after playing FIFA.

 

[LanceStern]

Bandai Tamagotchi Connection: Corner Shop ~ 1.2 million
SquareEnix Final Fantasy III ~ 865k
Bandai Tamagotchi 2 ~ 560k
Sega Love and Berry DS Collection ~ 420k
Atari Dragon Ball Z Supersonic Warrior 2 ~ 300k
SquareEnix Slime MoriMori Dragon Quest 2 ~ 300k
SquareEnix Children of Mana ~ 300k
Tomy Naruto: Saikyou Ninja Daikesshuu 3 ~ 240k
Bandai Digimon Story ~ 230k
Rocket Co. Kanji Quiz DS ~ 230k
Natsume Harvest Moon Chocoble Station ~ 220k
Sega Mushikings DS ~ 190k
Capcom Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney ~ 170k
Tomy Naruto RPG 2 ~ 150k
Sega Feel the Magic: XX/XY ~ 130k
Konami Winning Eleven DS ~ 140k
Konami Powerful Pro Baseball Pocket ~ 110k
Konami Yugioh Nightmare Troubadour ~ 110k
Tomy Naruto: Saikyou Ninja Daikesshuu 4 ~ 110k
Nacmo Pac Pix ~ 100k

I look back at all of these, and I must say I'm satisfied, especially with DBZ, Digimon, Harvest Moon and slime Morimori. Guess I should've looked at the number first :lol :lol :lol

 

[mre]

I guess you didn't read this then:

``We have to sell at least 500,000 copies per title worldwide to make a profit on PlayStation 3 games,'' said Takasu. He said titles for the new Sony console are ``selling well.''

Did you ignore the rest of the quote? Namco says that if they're a success (by your definition) and sell 300,000 games for the PS3, then they're losing money.

It's not only about the number of games sold when it comes to the business side of game devlopment. This is why some companies can sell low (relatively) numbers and still stay in business, while others can still sale 300,000 copies of a game and not make any money.

 

[mre]

Bandai Tamagotchi Connection: Corner Shop ~ 1.2 million
SquareEnix Final Fantasy III ~ 865k
Bandai Tamagotchi 2 ~ 560k
Sega Love and Berry DS Collection ~ 420k
Atari Dragon Ball Z Supersonic Warrior 2 ~ 300k
SquareEnix Slime MoriMori Dragon Quest 2 ~ 300k
SquareEnix Children of Mana ~ 300k
Tomy Naruto: Saikyou Ninja Daikesshuu 3 ~ 240k
Bandai Digimon Story ~ 230k
Rocket Co. Kanji Quiz DS ~ 230k
Natsume Harvest Moon Chocoble Station ~ 220k
Sega Mushikings DS ~ 190k
Capcom Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney ~ 170k
Tomy Naruto RPG 2 ~ 150k
Sega Feel the Magic: XX/XY ~ 130k
Konami Winning Eleven DS ~ 140k
Konami Powerful Pro Baseball Pocket ~ 110k
Konami Yugioh Nightmare Troubadour ~ 110k
Tomy Naruto: Saikyou Ninja Daikesshuu 4 ~ 110k
Nacmo Pac Pix ~ 100k

I look back at all of these, and I must say I'm satisfied, especially with DBZ, Digimon, Harvest Moon and slime Morimori. Guess I should've looked at the number first :lol :lol :lol

Haven't you been calling WE a failure this whole thread?

 

[Jiggy]

I have to admit, Lance. Of all the Sales-Age posts I read every week, yours are consistently the most entertaining.
Or at least yours in conjunction with the replies that wouldn't be there if not for you.

 

[LanceStern]

How was it supposed to?

This is not a blanket mathematical formula! X = Y does not apply across every game on every platform. Mega Man Star Force has nothing to do with Mushi King which has nothing to do with Tempest which has nothing to do with Winning Eleven.

well what it does say (in Leymann terms here) is that you can't depend on the success of previous franchises to transfer to the DS. So there's not a chance in hell you could expect Star Force to gurantee be over 300k.

And once again you guys saying the games were crap so no-one picked it up are just making excuses. Throw out Pokemon Dash, throw out Tales of Legendia, throw out Tamagotchi even or other games that got crap scores and still sold pretty darn well. They don't just "wisen up" and not buy bad games, they don't do it like that down in the south.

But someone brought up a good point. Um... the guy talking about PS2 sales being over 300k only for big franchises. Japan did suck all around for sales. But DS has been and should be changing that.

Oh well, this is likea merry go round, and I'm growing cold and a little tired. DS am winner this week once again. Kirby is making me happy. New Super Mario is making me very happy.

Now Brain Age 2 is angering me. I don't like how's it's overtaken Animal Crossing... not to mention the regular Brain Age has been beating Mario and Animal Crossing over in Europe.

 

[LanceStern]

Haven't you been calling WE a failure this whole thread?

It still is that piece of crap (in terms of sales).

I'm just saying I'm satisfied at the NUMBER of 3rd party DS titles starting to get AT LEAST OVER 100,000 (which used to be a mountain for it back in 05 no matter how well it was selling). SOme are even starting to cross the hurdles over into 200k mark, and that means shortly, more and more will get to 300k. And then we'llhave spinoffs for the Wii, and bigger sales, and Nintendo am will be winnar total.

But yes, Winnig Eleven, Tales, Mushi 2, Resident Evil and all others STINK in sales. And I haven't jumped onto Nintendo's own titles because that'd be suicide.

 

[Deku]

News flash, games have widely varying budgets even within the same platform.

 

[LanceStern]

Say these titles have already made a profit:

Magical Vacation 2
Rub Rabbits
Lost Magic
Magic Taizen
Ouendan
Resident Evil DS
Bleach DS
Contact
Viewtiful joe Double Trouble
Naruto RPG 3

All these titles have sold less than 100k. Almost 99% of them have sold less than 50,000 (lol at percentages :lol )...

How the hell could you live with yourselves and say they are a success in terms of sales. Keep in mind we're assuming they've already made a profit for the company. Less than 50k? Less than 40k? Less than 25k?

It's not fathomable.

 

[mre]

How the hell could you live with yourselves and say they are a success in terms of sales. Keep in mind we're assuming they've already made a profit for the company. Less than 50k? Less than 40k? Less than 25k?

Not every game has mass appeal. If the games made a profit for their company, why shouldn't they be considered a success? Do you know what their target sales were? If a game sold 50k, but was only expected to sale 25k, wouldn't you call that a success?

 

[Mr. Pointy]

Magical Vacation 2 - this was launched at a really bad time
Rub Rabbits - niche, too ****ing weird
Lost Magic - niche, also crap
Magic Taizen - niche
Ouendan - got a pseudo-sequel
Resident Evil DS - port of a 10 year old game
Bleach DS - best selling Bleach game, getting sequel
Contact - niche, too ****ing weird
Viewtiful joe Double Trouble - oversaturated franchise
Naruto RPG 3 - oversaturated franchise

 

[LanceStern]

News flash, games have widely varying budgets even within the same platform.

Maybe you've missed the last 2 or 3 media create threads where I've acknowledged this time and time again.

I even said it in this thread, and to corroborate it even more... so as to bury this into your skulls, my standard of 300k lowers depending on not only the budget of the title, but how much it's been advertised AND it's initial odds of being a success in Japan in the first place.

Now that I think about it, I could almsot turn that into an equation. If I use a variable as a coefficient of success which varies depending on the games budget and art style... I could find a reasonable number as to how well a game should sell to be a success in my eyes.

Take Digimon Story for example. It's a dying/dead franchise in Japan... you'd expect it to do horrible in Japan... so I would give the coefficient of success about a .2 or .15..

s = .15

Then take the DS userbase, multiply it by the coefficient of success and divide by the coefficeint of success * 100

So:

Success = s *userbase/(s * 10)

 

[Galactic Fork]

Lost Magic - niche, also crap

I just want to say it wasn't crap. It wasn't great, but it was decent. But definitely niche

 

[Maridia]

Say these titles have already made a profit:

Magical Vacation 2
Rub Rabbits
Lost Magic
Magic Taizen
Ouendan
Resident Evil DS
Bleach DS
Contact
Viewtiful joe Double Trouble
Naruto RPG 3

All these titles have sold less than 100k. Almost 99% of them have sold less than 50,000 (lol at percentages :lol )...

How the hell could you live with yourselves and say they are a success in terms of sales. Keep in mind we're assuming they've already made a profit for the company. Less than 50k? Less than 40k? Less than 25k?

It's not fathomable.

ANYTHING THAT MAKES A PROFIT IS A SUCCESS. MAKING A PROFIT MEANS THAT THESE GAMES HAVE REACHED MORE PEOPLE THAN THE PUBLISHER INTENDED, AND THEREFORE BUDGETED ACCORDINGLY, FOR THEM TO. ANYONE WHO HAS PLAYED CONTACT WILL TELL YOU THAT IT WAS NOT CREATED WITH THE MASSMARKET IN MIND. OUENDAN IS A GAME ABOUT MALE CHEERLEADERS. YOUR LIST IS FULL OF WEIRD SHIT, UMPTEENTH REMAKES, AND ANIME LISCENSES THAT HAVE NEXT TO ZERO APPEAL OUTSIDE OF THE UPPER ECHELON OF THE LISCENSE'S FANBASE. THE PUBLISHERS DO NOT INTEND FOR THESE PROJECTS TO SELL MILLIONS. WHY DO YOU HATE FREEDOM?

 

[Kurosaki Ichigo]

Who would have expected the Xbox 360 to still be ahead of PS3 at this point? :lol

me

 

[LanceStern]

Not every game has mass appeal. If the games made a profit for their company, why shouldn't they be considered a success? Do you know what their target sales were? If a game sold 50k, but was only expected to sale 25k, wouldn't you call that a success?

Well I could say that Capcom made a profit off of Resident Evil 0, Onimusha, Devil May Cry etc.... and even the games sold over a 1 million each but still they were disappointed by them.

profit didn't make them happy... they wanted higher sales.

But then again, this is Capcom so take this example with a grain of salt. Refer to my equation for a more mathematical approach.

 

[medrew]

How the hell could you live with yourselves and say they are a success in terms of sales. Keep in mind we're assuming they've already made a profit for the company. Less than 50k? Less than 40k? Less than 25k?

It's not fathomable.

So basically every game has to be a break-out smash hit for you?
I don't know what director said it about Hollywood, but it extends itself to video games: They don't care (about your success as a director/producer) so long as you break-even.
Any game that doesn't lose money is considered a success, unless much more was expected of it. Most of the games you listed don't fall into that,

 

[mre]

Take Digimon Story for example. It's a dying/dead franchise in Japan... you'd expect it to do horrible in Japan... so I would give the coefficient of success about a .2 or .15..

s = .15

Then take the DS userbase, multiply it by the coefficient of success and divide by the coefficeint of success * 100

So: Success = s *userbase/(s * 10)

This... makes... no sense. At all. It can be simplified to S=(Userbase/10).

I am now convinced that you're purposefully being daft.

 

[Karma Kramer]

http://eg.nttpub.co.jp/ranking.html

DSL 131,431
PS3 32,045
PS2 16,543
PSP 13,698
Xbox360 12,480
GBASP 1,034
GBM 1,004
GC 489
DS 224
GBA 30
Xbox 7

Are those numbers accurate? Found them on the gamespot.com forums.

 

[Mr. Pointy]

This... makes... no sense. At all. It can be simplified to S=(Userbase/10).

I am now convinced that you're purposefully being daft.

It's just him being OCD.

 

[ethelred]

Take Digimon Story for example. It's a dying/dead franchise in Japan... you'd expect it to do horrible in Japan... so I would give the coefficient of success about a .2 or .15..

s = .15

Then take the DS userbase, multiply it by the coefficient of success and divide by the coefficeint of success * 100

So: Success = s *userbase/(s * 10)

So basically Square2005 has cyberjacked into your brain.

 

[medrew]

Are those numbers accurate? Found them on the gamespot.com forums.

castle made them up.

Hardware most liekly won't come till tommorow, I'm suprised we aren't getting any of the random # info though.

sure:

NUMBERS

 

[LanceStern]

ANYTHING THAT MAKES A PROFIT IS A SUCCESS. MAKING A PROFIT MEANS THAT THESE GAMES HAVE REACHED MORE PEOPLE THAN THE PUBLISHER INTENDED, AND THEREFORE BUDGETED ACCORDINGLY, FOR THEM TO. ANYONE WHO HAS PLAYED CONTACT WILL TELL YOU THAT IT WAS NOT CREATED WITH THE MASSMARKET IN MIND. OUENDAN IS A GAME ABOUT MALE CHEERLEADERS. YOUR LIST IS FULL OF WEIRD SHIT, UMPTEENTH REMAKES, AND ANIME LISCENSES THAT HAVE NEXT TO ZERO APPEAL OUTSIDE OF THE UPPER ECHELON OF THE LISCENSE'S FANBASE. THE PUBLISHERS DO NOT INTEND FOR THESE PROJECTS TO SELL MILLIONS. WHY DO YOU HATE FREEDOM?

Take another example.

2k Sports sold decently on the Nintendo Gamecube. Dare I say they sold very well considering the crappy job Visual concepts did at putting on the system. It made a profit. But for some reason they pulled it off the system anyways.

Success in money... not success in sales =/= unhappiness.
They coincide me thinX

 

[mre]

http://eg.nttpub.co.jp/ranking.html

DSL 131,431
PS3 32,045
PS2 16,543
PSP 13,698
Xbox360 12,480
GBASP 1,034
GBM 1,004
GC 489
DS 224
GBA 30
Xbox 7

Are those numbers accurate? Found them on the gamespot.com forums.

No, Castle made them up HERE.

Do you see what you've done, Castle, it's spread to all of the internet. Microsoft Execs are probably going ecstatic over these numbers.

EDIT: beaten.

 

[ethelred]

ANYTHING THAT MAKES A PROFIT IS A SUCCESS. MAKING A PROFIT MEANS THAT THESE GAMES HAVE REACHED MORE PEOPLE THAN THE PUBLISHER INTENDED, AND THEREFORE BUDGETED ACCORDINGLY, FOR THEM TO. ANYONE WHO HAS PLAYED CONTACT WILL TELL YOU THAT IT WAS NOT CREATED WITH THE MASSMARKET IN MIND. OUENDAN IS A GAME ABOUT MALE CHEERLEADERS. YOUR LIST IS FULL OF WEIRD SHIT, UMPTEENTH REMAKES, AND ANIME LISCENSES THAT HAVE NEXT TO ZERO APPEAL OUTSIDE OF THE UPPER ECHELON OF THE LISCENSE'S FANBASE. THE PUBLISHERS DO NOT INTEND FOR THESE PROJECTS TO SELL MILLIONS. WHY DO YOU HATE FREEDOM?

Don't you get it? The .s coefficient multiplied by the fact that MMV immediately and elatedly announced a sequel to the game means Contact is a dismal failure.

 

[Galactic Fork]

http://eg.nttpub.co.jp/ranking.html

DSL 131,431
PS3 32,045
PS2 16,543
PSP 13,698
Xbox360 12,480
GBASP 1,034
GBM 1,004
GC 489
DS 224
GBA 30
Xbox 7

Are those numbers accurate? Found them on the gamespot.com forums.

OK! That is great. The link doesn't eve have the numbers! First gamestop.. soon other forums will have them, then there'll be news articles on websites.

 

[medrew]

Take another example.

2k Sports sold decently on the Nintendo Gamecube. Dare I say they sold very well considering the crappy job Visual concepts did at putting on the system. It made a profit. But for some reason they pulled it off the system anyways.

Success in money... not success in sales =/= unhappiness.
They coincide me thinX

probably because, I don't know, 2K could have better put those resources elsewhere. And besides that a Gamecube game would have required a lot more people working on the port for a lot more time than most DS games require. There is more option of moving and shifting people around on DS production to better maximise staff; there is less committal.
In no shape, or form, what you have just said analogous.

 

[LanceStern]

From: Medrew
So basically every game has to be a break-out smash hit for you?

Must I repeat myself? It depends on the budget/advertising/initial probability of success. Once again I like sales of Lost Magic in the US even though it's less than 50k. I like sales of Harvest moon in Japan even at 200k (which is great for it's franchise, because it's initial probability of usccess was low, it's advertising and budget was low, but look at how well it sold).

I'll have this formula figured out soon. Just watch.

This... makes... no sense. At all. It can be simplified to S=(Userbase/10).

I am now convinced that you're purposefully being daft.

It's a work in progress.

Even Einstein had to get hit upside the head with a few apples before he discovered the first law of relativity.

 

[duckroll]

Given BD height ont he Famitsu most wanted. I wouldn't be suprised if it outsold Wii.

You're kidding right?

The Famitsu most wanted chart doesn't really mean much, it's a reader vote based on zero accountability and zero committment. Most of the people that buy Nintendo stuff won't even send in votes for otaku stuff like that, so they don't really represent real sales on any level.

 

[Karma Kramer]

You're kidding right?

The Famitsu most wanted chart doesn't really mean much, it's a reader vote based on zero accountability and zero committment. Most of the people that buy Nintendo stuff won't even send in votes for otaku stuff like that, so they don't really represent real sales on any level.

So who's voting then? The entire Xbox Japan community?

 

[Earthstrike]

This... makes... no sense. At all. It can be simplified to S=(Userbase/10).

I am now convinced that you're purposefully being daft.

DAMMIT, you posted that first, this is what happens when you stop reading a thread to get chocolate croissants at Tim hortons.

 

[LanceStern]

Don't you get it? The .s coefficient multiplied by the fact that MMV immediately and elatedly announced a sequel to the game means Contact is a dismal failure.

Make fun of it now while you can. You'll be wanting my autograph when it's up with the greats like

E = mc^2
F = ma

and

C = E + T


My 2K sports analogy was very good I thought. Give me a day to think of another one yea?

How they HECK did:
1. This topic get to over 300 responses so fast
2. Gamespot.com already quote bogus numbers thinking they were real? Don't they read?

 

[duckroll]

So who's voting then? The entire Xbox Japan community?

A few thousand videogame fans.

 

[Maridia]

Don't you get it? The .s coefficient multiplied by the fact that MMV immediately and elatedly announced a sequel to the game means Contact is a dismal failure.

Holy shit! And they thought Muhammad Yunus was a visionary!

 

[LanceStern]

You're kidding right?

The Famitsu most wanted chart doesn't really mean much, it's a reader vote based on zero accountability and zero committment. Most of the people that buy Nintendo stuff won't even send in votes for otaku stuff like that, so they don't really represent real sales on any level.

Remembering Mother 3 being on top of the charts for so long and yet only selling less than 400k.

Now remembers Pokemon Diamond and Pearl being at #10 or less on the charts.


Roffles without the asterisks to show that he's thinking :lol :lol :lol

 

[Earthstrike]

Refer to my equation for a more mathematical approach.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

:lol :lol :lol

(And believe me I rarely use smilies or double post, but this was just worth.)

Lancestern, how the hell can you expect to mathematically quantify something like succes which itself is arbitrary since what companies find successful varies from product to product.

In some cases profit = success.
In other cases taking a small loss, yet generating a huge amount of PR for a company or respect for a companies development studios may be successful.
Developing a new I.P may be a success.

How do quantify something that is intrinsically qualitative?

 

[LanceStern]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

:lol :lol :lol

(And believe me I rarely use smilies or double post, but this was just worth.)

Lancestern, how the hell can you expect to mathematically quantify something like succes which itself is arbitrary since what companies find successful varies from product to product.

In some cases profit = success.
In other cases taking a small loss, yet generating a huge amount of PR for a company or respect for a companies development studios may be successful.
Developing a new I.P may be a success.

How do quantify something that is intrinsically qualitative?

Money solves everything

And because I'm that good with numbers. I'm so good with them, I can count to infinity...

twice :lol :lol

 

[Earthstrike]

Okay, its late at night, how about we all take a break and start back up tommorow when we can laugh at PS3's supply problem?

 

[AniHawk]

thinX

You know now why I must kill you.

 

[LanceStern]

I concur

Edit: My concurring was in concurrance to EarthStrike's comments.
I can't concur on Anihawk's cold, callous, conundrum. Concurrance is for impartials.

I tried alliteration there, but those d**n C's just don't have enough words

 

[Ginko]

Those two were shit and the hardcore avoided them. The Tales fans had learned to avoid a shit game after buying Legendia. And the WE fans had learned to avoid a shit WE after playing FIFA.

I think it would better if you stop talking about soccer games

 

[Jiggy]

Make fun of it now while you can. You'll be wanting my autograph when it's up with the greats like

E = mc^2
F = ma

and

C = E + T

I think this is the best post ever, but I can't mathematically prove it.

 

[Doogdogg]

Nice DS sales. Common Sense, Mario & Kirby went up from previous week. I can't wait to see how much boost the holidays will have on them.