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Media Create Sales 12/17 - 12/23 2007
- Thread starter Cheesemeister
- Start date
Provider said:
Justify? When did I justify anything?
I just don't see the point if you're comparing in a vacuum. Like I don't see the point celebrating DS destroying PS2 sales. Why don't we just start comparing car sales and handhelds? (And yeah that last question is stupid and in no way meant to be taken seriously)
But I've said my peace, so sorry to interrupt!
Rocksteady33
Junior Member
TheBranca18 said:
The DS plays videogames, as does the PS2. A car does not. Why the fuck would we compare a car to handhelds?
Rocksteady33 said:
The bold faced hypocricy is certainly hard to escape but when you construct your entire argument on subtly trolling something like the DS, you have to make those logical leaps of faiths.
And we're long overdue for this, and I do think its applicable to those who keep trying to make the same arguments which were lame last year, and is still lame today.
Cognitive dissonance.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Just this thread? This has been happening for MONTHS in the MC threads. It's not like we haven't heard all these arguments before and all, TheBranca's restating them again for the umpteenth time.Culex said:
Knastluder
Member
Where's Vink or his report ?
Thanks.JoshuaJSlone said:
The mad shopping season, supply issues and the recent price drop kind of distort the flow of everything now, but if the PS3 can hang on to somewhere between 20 and 30% weekly unit share, I think it should be able to sustain healthy software sales.
I found it particularly interesting that, historically, there seems to be a big difference in how two systems go out of the winter holiday season. The winning system drops slowly, to a half, a third, then a fifth of what it did by year's end approximately a month later. The second-place system OTOH plummets instantly to a quarter, and doesn't even do a tenth one month later.
That's something to watch out for in January, I guess. If the PS3 does less than 20k in the first week of January, Japan really doesn't want it (as opposed to "Japan doesn't want to shell out so much money for it").
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
In your case, it's the arguments relating to sales comparisons. You're saying the car comparison thing hasn't been used before here?TheBranca18 said:
XiaNaphryz said:
I've read these threads for a couple of months and haven't seen it (I've only browsed this site for that time period) so I wouldn't know.
And the whole car argument thing was in response to someone taking a part of my post seriously that had a disclaimer. It wasn't meant to be taken seriously, but if he's going to do that then he deserves a ridiculous comparison in return
JoshuaJSlone
Member
Outside of Japan, and on hiatus due to being outside of Japan.Knastluder said:
TheBranca18 said:
If we're not supposed to care why it's expensive, why should the fact that it is expensive matter then?
It is expensive, and maybe that's the main reason it's not selling well, but as Reggie would say... that's not my (his) problem, in other words: it doesn't matter.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
So considering the Soul Calibur Legends bomb, I was wondering what other fighter spinoffs did. However... I can't find any in my data that charted. I wasn't expecting to see something like Mortal Kombat: Shaolin Monks, but it seems Virtua Quest didn't make the weekly Top 30 either. Anything else notable from PS2 on?
Provider said:
It comes down to this. The way I look at things I like to take into account as much information as I can as to WHY something is happening, it seems like most of you don't care about that at all and are just reporting that it's happening. To me that's not interesting at all.
Pureauthor
Member
TheBranca18 said:
No,
The thing is, why something performs badly doesn't change that it does perform badly. The reasons why the PS3 performs badly is different from why the Gamecube performed badly (some of the reasons, anyway), but that doesn't change that both performed badly, and thus both performances can be compared.
slaughterking
Member
Death by DegreesJoshuaJSlone said:
Pureauthor
Member
Well, I'm willing to bet a significant portion of the DoA fanbase isn't even aware that Ryu exists in those games.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
We know price is important, but we've also known this for the last year so it's a bit old hat.TheBranca18 said:
We also know price is not the only problem, as the 40 GB PS3 is now at the price PS2 was for its first year, but PS3 December 2007 sales aren't comparing favorably to PS2 May 2000 sales.
Hmm. Well, it's related anyway.Grecco said:
Ninja Gaiden had a 40K first week, but I don't know past that.
Ninja Gaiden Black had a 4K first week, and again it disappeared.
Ninja Gaiden Sigma had a 41K first week, and is apparently at at least 76K.
Good one. It had a 40K first week, and eventually reached 70K.slaughterking said:
charlequin
Banned
jgwhiteus said:
Oh sure. The problem is that, compared to last gen (when PS2 was a very reliable software seller for basically every manner of software in Japan) every current system has obstacles. DS is a beast, but some titles from big franchises (I'm thinking especially of Tales here) have underperformed. And DS is far and away the most successful system.
Out of what's left, I think Wii has the most potential, but PSP is the best current performer. Making what would have been a double-or-triple-AAA PS2 title from a big franchise and putting it on PSP with a lot of hype is a proven route to success -- witness FF7:CC and MGS
O. I expect KH:BbS to follow the same path. Ports of reasonably successful old games seem to do well too -- see FFT and this opening for SO. This means that there's at least a formula for hits on this platform, even if many titles fail badly.Wii, on the other hand, is totally unpredictable. Some things seem to do well, others bomb beyond all reason. I think that if publishers work together to cultivate a market they'll be rewarded, but as it is they've demonstrated reticence across the board, and no one wants to step forward and be the first publisher to put "real" titles there. As long as that keeps up you'll have a lot of gamers saying things like "well, the 'real' Tales games are going to X360 and PS3..." which is going to hurt the ability for titles to get traction on Wii. I don't think publishers will change this attitude until someone has a really indisputable, out-of-the-park success.
PS3 and 360, of course, are... not good. I wouldn't bank on profit from Japanese sales for titles on either, outside the very, very biggest franchises (I expect FF13 and GT5 will sell very well) or carefully crafted specific titles (I agree that, say, Idolm@ster is probably pure profit for Namco.)
Xisiqomelir
Member
TheBranca18 said:
Sorry you don't like sales threads. Maybe you shouldn't click on them?
The question has arisen before how the systems are doing in software for the year. I've posted the totals before, but thanks to JoshuaJSlone providing the direct SQL access and the table descriptions, here is a publicly available way to see how each system is doing YTD. This is only based on the weekly sales in the Famitsu Top 30s.
Total software YTD from Famitsu Top 30s
DS - 21,285,889
Wii - 7,761,363
PS2 - 6,818,209
PSP - 3,880,385
PS3 - 1,737,193
X360 - 469,738
XB360 - 60,376 (530,114 combined with above)
ETC 24,310
3rd party total software YTD from Famitsu Top 30s
DS - 9,293,605
PS2 - 6,763,737
PSP - 3,599,610
Wii - 1,295,380
PS3 - 1,148,160
X360 - 334,276
ETC - 24,310
Total software YTD from Famitsu Top 30s
DS - 21,285,889
Wii - 7,761,363
PS2 - 6,818,209
PSP - 3,880,385
PS3 - 1,737,193
X360 - 469,738
XB360 - 60,376 (530,114 combined with above)
ETC 24,310
3rd party total software YTD from Famitsu Top 30s
DS - 9,293,605
PS2 - 6,763,737
PSP - 3,599,610
Wii - 1,295,380
PS3 - 1,148,160
X360 - 334,276
ETC - 24,310
Do you really?TheBranca18 said:
Price isn't even the PS3's biggest problem at the moment. It may have been at first, but that was a year ago. The PS3 now has a perception problem, a small library and weak release schedule, and fierce competition (stronger the Playstation family ever was) in the DS and Wii. You can slash the price now, but that doesn't fix anything.
Have you really considered all the reasons why something is happening, or have you just chalked the PS3 failure down due to its price and ignored everything else. You present yourself as the latter. The reason why you are having so many people jump on you is because you've been echoing the exact stance of a group of fanboys who were once very vitriol about the PS3's price being its only reason that it isn't selling and that a price drop would raise it to PS2 level dominance. You may not have ever claimed that the PS3 will recover or dominate with a price drop, but the "if only" scenerios you're hinting at were played-out a long time ago.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
donny2112 said:
Note that Famitsu's double weeks have 0 listed for the weekly sales in both weeks, so those are missing.
charlequin said:Oh sure. The problem is that, compared to last gen (when PS2 was a very reliable software seller for basically every manner of software in Japan) every current system has obstacles. DS is a beast, but some titles from big franchises (I'm thinking especially of Tales here) have underperformed. And DS is far and away the most successful system.
Out of what's left, I think Wii has the most potential, but PSP is the best current performer. Making what would have been a double-or-triple-AAA PS2 title from a big franchise and putting it on PSP with a lot of hype is a proven route to success -- witness FF7:CC and MGS
Wii, on the other hand, is totally unpredictable. Some things seem to do well, others bomb beyond all reason. I think that if publishers work together to cultivate a market they'll be rewarded, but as it is they've demonstrated reticence across the board, and no one wants to step forward and be the first publisher to put "real" titles there. As long as that keeps up you'll have a lot of gamers saying things like "well, the 'real' Tales games are going to X360 and PS3..." which is going to hurt the ability for titles to get traction on Wii. I don't think publishers will change this attitude until someone has a really indisputable, out-of-the-park success.
PS3 and 360, of course, are... not good. I wouldn't bank on profit from Japanese sales for titles on either, outside the very, very biggest franchises (I expect FF13 and GT5 will sell very well) or carefully crafted specific titles (I agree that, say, Idolm@ster is probably pure profit for Namco.)
Good post. I thought Monster Hunter 3 was going to be the start of a massive shift to Wii, but so far that does not seem to be the case.
Josh: NG1 charted in its second week, too, in Fami's top 30. It did around 7k, offhand.
Oh, where to begin...
1. 700k is more or less the norm for new Star Ocean releases. Both SO2 and SO3 pulled in that amount. It is not the norm for new Tales games, as they consistently do a bit less than that. Destiny 2-like numbers are an outlier.
2. There have only really been two Tales remakes really: Phantasia and Destiny. Phantasia PSX is interesting in how it outsold the original and basically created the series' popularity. The Destiny remake did a bit more than the baseline I just laid out for First Departure... but not by that much.
3. If you want to talk ports instead, that's even murkier. Ports of Symphonia and Eternia performed significantly better than 200k. The port of Destiny 2 and the GBA and PSP versions of Phantasia did not.
4. I said 200k is a minimum, a baseline -- not the most we can expect.
jarrod said:Tales remakes tend to do more and the series ususally caps around ~700k... just saying.
Oh, where to begin...
1. 700k is more or less the norm for new Star Ocean releases. Both SO2 and SO3 pulled in that amount. It is not the norm for new Tales games, as they consistently do a bit less than that. Destiny 2-like numbers are an outlier.
2. There have only really been two Tales remakes really: Phantasia and Destiny. Phantasia PSX is interesting in how it outsold the original and basically created the series' popularity. The Destiny remake did a bit more than the baseline I just laid out for First Departure... but not by that much.
3. If you want to talk ports instead, that's even murkier. Ports of Symphonia and Eternia performed significantly better than 200k. The port of Destiny 2 and the GBA and PSP versions of Phantasia did not.
4. I said 200k is a minimum, a baseline -- not the most we can expect.
Hey, just saying. :lolethelred said:
Honestly though, the two Tales remakes make for far, far better comparisons than FF4 DS I'd say. If you're going to laundry list defense any answer, you might want to be more careful with your own inherently flawed comparisons in the first place.
perfectchaos007
Member
donny2112 said:
Ouch. I didn't realize just how bad it was on Wii. Third parties need to step up and make some good games. Lazy bastards
schuelma said:
I am not surprised the " big shift " hasn't happened and I have doubts it will ever happen. japanese Wii owners are together with the PSP owners the worst software buyers there is. attach ratios (3rd party at least) have to be truly abysmal.
donny2112 said:
the 3 or so million difference in hardware barely keeps the Wii ahead of the PS3 in software. Terrible.
perfectchaos007
Member
sphinx said:
No kidding. Nintendo needs to stop making such great games OR third parties need to step up and make better games. Or else this will never change.
nextgeneration
Member
donny2112 said:
Wow, those numbers are horrendous, especially for Wii. I wonder if this situation will improve in 2008 for both?
GreenNight
Member
Jesus Christ, who says Nintendo sales threads are boring.
Nice, very nice. Happy to see both of these do well--Star Ocean for the game itself, Haruhi for the sake of the light novel it's based on.Kurosaki Ichigo said:
...Well, without the context of how much Haruhi shipped, I guess I can't intelligently say too much about success or otherwise, but I at least had been expecting a lesser performance than this.
Hairyiguana
Member
nextgeneration said:
Thats the problem with having so many huge sellers like Nintendo has right now. People only have so much time and money, and probably don't care to waste much of either on most of the garbage that 3rd parties are putting out.
But I'm more of a believer that the vast majority of people don't really notice or care who makes the games.
Xisiqomelir
Member
donny2112 said:
-> %age 3rd-party sales of Famitsu software top 30s YTD by platform
DS: 43.7%
Wii: 16.7%
PS2: 99.2%
PSP: 92.8%
PS3: 66.1%
XB360: 71.2%
EDIT:
TheBranca18 said:
:lol
Pureauthor said:
We compare performance of current phenomena with past phenomena in order to build a conceptual model that can predict future performance. We consider specific reasons for current performance, in contrast with reasons for past performance, to evaluate the accuracy of that conceptual model.
In plain English: PS3 performance seems similar to GC performance. Prediction: PS3 sales trends will continue to be similar to GC sales trends. However, reasons for PS3 performance may be different than reasons for GC performance. Prediction: PS3 sales trends will diverge from GC sales trends.
Both perspectives have some intellectual validity. Time, and data, will determine the facts. But we are impatient, and we like to argue opinions.
EDIT:
Hairyiguana said:
Nintendo's 1st year release schedule was based on a strategy where they could not count on being the market leader, and could not count on 3rd party support.
The runaway success of the Wii caught everyone by surprise, including Nintendo.
Wait until after Wii Fit, Mario Kart, SSMB have been released and hardware sales have leveled off again; then we'll see what Nintendo's approach to 3rd parties, and 3rd party support of the Wii platform, will be.