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[amodf]

There is one small point that you are missing. Installed User base. When Kirby came out, the user base was a lot small than it is now. What about Wario ware? Jump Superstars sold well and sold a lot of DS's. And about the new consumers not buying games. I don't see a solid point there. No way of backing this up. Are they more likely to buy "real games" now that they own a DS? I say yes, maybe not all of them. Let's wait and see how next years games do, in the light of this increased user base.

But older games aren't selling because of that. Kirby sold a bunch when the user-base was a lot smaller, and other games haven't reaped the benefits of a higher installed base either. The DS is doing incredible numbers, no doubt; but what about the rest of the games GAMERS should be expect to reap the benefits of such an install base? The keyword here is GAMERS. Sure, Brain Training and DS is a ridiculous combo. Same with Animal Crossing. They're doing incredible numbers. But what about the other great games in the DS library? They're lying stagnant! Sequels to GBA games, like Slime Morimori and Gyakuten Saiban (not really a sequel, ok) are doing decent numbers, but not nearly what their predecessors did. It's one thing to have a high install-base, but what if they aren't buying non-brain training games? No other DS games, save for Mario Kart and Animal Crossing, have really benefitted from the DS's penetration. And Mario Kart and Animal Crossing were huge sellers on the floundering N64!

So far, VERY FEW DS games have benefitted from the enormous install base, and that should be the big issue. The DS sells incredibly well, and Mario Kart (the sequel to one of the N64's two million sellers) and Animal Crossing sell a boatload. Also, a Mario-themed RPG also sells over 100k. Meanwhile, the PSP, coming off a month of excellent software, sells 110k, which is well over the PS2 even!, yet, no games crack the top ten. What does this say, as a whole, of the Japanese market?

Are they buying the DS for its software, or because of Brain Training? Are they buying a PSP for software, or its multimedia capibilities? Are people buying a PS2 to play existing releases, or are they buying it for Kingdom Hearts 2/Front Mission 5? While the latter is probably true, it's a serious question. Are you interested in how well Nintendo does because you want to see more great games? Or is it because you're a stock-holder. Because, unless you really want to see more Brain Training games, this news can only be awesome unless you're a blind fanboy, or you're collecting dividends. As gamers, we might see the latter end of 2006 inunduated with 15 Brain Training games and a random bone thrown at gamer-types.

 

[BudokaiMR2]

woah woah woah.

This "enormous install base" has really just hit its peak LAST month. You can't expect it to affect sales on games that came out before that. Those games have already lost their hype. I think that this next years round of software will benefit from it.

I think you are overreacting a little too much.

 

[Moor-Angol]

But older games aren't selling because of that. Kirby sold a bunch when the user-base was a lot smaller, and other games haven't reaped the benefits of a higher installed base either. The DS is doing incredible numbers, no doubt; but what about the rest of the games GAMERS should be expect to reap the benefits of such an install base? The keyword here is GAMERS. Sure, Brain Training and DS is a ridiculous combo. Same with Animal Crossing. They're doing incredible numbers. But what about the other great games in the DS library? They're lying stagnant! Sequels to GBA games, like Slime Morimori and Gyakuten Saiban (not really a sequel, ok) are doing decent numbers, but not nearly what their predecessors did. It's one thing to have a high install-base, but what if they aren't buying non-brain training games? No other DS games, save for Mario Kart and Animal Crossing, have really benefitted from the DS's penetration. And Mario Kart and Animal Crossing were huge sellers on the floundering N64!

I disagree with your opinion: first Slime Mori Mori on GBA came out after 2 year and a half GBA was on the market, Slime 2 only after one year. On GBA it sold over 300k units, but on DS i think it will arrive at 200k units, so i think not so much difference considering different user base.
Gyakuten Saiban was not a new chapter (same that happened for Rockman EXE DS release) and it sold over 100k units, that's not a bad result for a GBA porting.
Some Nintendo sequel from GBA went bad (Kirby), other went good (Wario).
And Animal Crossing was NOT a huge seller in N64 times, it sold only 215k units; it was a good seller on GC (over 600k units for a N64 porting and other 200k units for the e+ card reader updgrade), but consider this: AC on DS alone made more than AC N64 + AC GC + ACe+ GC combined
And you forgot Nintendogs... it's a million seller now, it's a new brand.
DS was able to get money from usual Nintendo brands, such as Mario, Wario, Mario Kart and Animal Crossing, but also from new brand as Nintendogs and the 21st century money maker Brain Training.
The only thing we can see about DS sales in Japan is almost lack sales from 3rd party, except high success Tamagotchi and good sales from Naruto games, Slime Mori 2 and Dragonball fighting game.

 

[Acrylamid]

Seriously, trying to claim that the DS's success is only a result of it being the next handheld from the handheld market leader is missing most of the point. Japanese sales have never been this high. Combine that with the fact that Japanese sales in general have been declining steadily and significantly over most of the last decade, and you have a huge statistical anomaly that can only signify new video game players joining the market that weren't into video games two years ago. Also, considering that the Revolution is attempting to do the same thing and that Nintendo has been steadily losing market share since the NES, and you get "the great hope" for Nintendo fans. i.e. The Revolution/DS combo could see to Nintendo's continued success (and continued game output) for many years to come.

Coming from the previous standpoint of "PSP will take Nintendo's last safe haven (handheld sales) away and assure the end of Nintendo games," and you get near-euphoric joy/relief. The resulting celebration (which is what most of this thread is) should then be expected.

This post deserves an "iawtp".

 

[ioi]

I disagree with your opinion: first Slime Mori Mori on GBA came out after 2 year and a half GBA was on the market, Slime 2 only after one year. On GBA it sold over 300k units, but on DS i think it will arrive at 200k units, so i think not so much difference considering different user base.
Gyakuten Saiban was not a new chapter (same that happened for Rockman EXE DS release) and it sold over 100k units, that's not a bad result for a GBA porting.
Some Nintendo sequel from GBA went bad (Kirby), other went good (Wario).
And Animal Crossing was NOT a huge seller in N64 times, it sold only 215k units; it was a good seller on GC (over 600k units for a N64 porting and other 200k units for the e+ card reader updgrade), but consider this: AC on DS alone made more than AC N64 + AC GC + ACe+ GC combined
And you forgot Nintendogs... it's a million seller now, it's a new brand.
DS was able to get money from usual Nintendo brands, such as Mario, Wario, Mario Kart and Animal Crossing, but also from new brand as Nintendogs and the 21st century money maker Brain Training.
The only thing we can see about DS sales in Japan is almost lack sales from 3rd party, except high success Tamagotchi and good sales from Naruto games, Slime Mori 2 and Dragonball fighting game.

Agreed.

Check out http://www.everythingandnothing.org.uk/vg

Slime Mori Mori has done almost as well as the GBA version, Mario Kart signifiantly better, AC significantly better than the GC version.

It's not just Brain Training / Nintendogs that are doing well here, sales are HUGE across the board.

You have to applaud Nintendo for capturing whole new segments of the market as well as appealing to existing ones...

 

[Tabris]

For the record, the reason you're getting backlash from people like MAF or myself is not because of these celebration threads, it's the fact you (general statement) do this in EVERY fucking post on this forum right now.

No one can go to a single handheld thread (DS, GBASP, PSP, hell even Gizmondo) without having some nintendo zealot preaching the DS and bashing the PSP.

Hell, even the PS2/DC wasn't this bad.

 

[Farmboy]

Does anyone know the LTD of Pokémon Dash, Kirby Canvas Curse and Yoshi Touch & Go in America (and possibly some indication of their European numbers)? I ask because they've done 375K, 307K and 238K respectively in Japan alone, and thus may be at or close to million-seller status if they did well in the west (Yoshi's iffy, but I seem to recall it did pretty decent business in the US).

 

[DarkMehm]

Pokemon Dash: 136,518
Kirbys Canvas Curse: 197,331
Yoshi Touch & Go: 215,249

all numbers as of November.

 

[BudokaiMR2]

Tabris you know MAF's reactions are just pure anger.

 

[Tabris]

Well maybe I shouldn't speak for MAF, but my response to this thread is cause of every handheld thread being trolled by nbots right now.

Hell, I'm not even playing any games on my PSP for now. Just all about the GBASP still. But damn man...it's bloody insane right now with all the PSP-trolling and DS-praising.

 

[rod]

For the record, the reason you're getting backlash from people like MAF or myself is not because of these celebration threads, it's the fact you (general statement) do this in EVERY fucking post on this forum right now.

No one can go to a single handheld thread (DS, GBASP, PSP, hell even Gizmondo) without having some nintendo zealot preaching the DS and bashing the PSP.

Hell, even the PS2/DC wasn't this bad.

thats bullshit and works both ways. cant get a DS thread without wario spoofing all over it or MAF or andy767 or whatever always talkin it up. face it. its bad whatever way you spin it

 

[BudokaiMR2]

Yeah it really is on both sides though. It's just that the DS fans have ammo right now because of the Japan sales.

I personally love both portables, but I just don't have anything to play for my PSP

 

[Tabris]

thats bullshit and works both ways. cant get a DS thread without wario spoofing all over it or MAF or andy767 or whatever always talkin it up. face it. its bad whatever way you spin it

It's like 3 or 4 people on the Sony side... and those people have been trolling Nintendo for like years now. Can't expect that to change, but come on, you gotta admit, the ratio of haterade is much higher on the nintendo side.

I mean look at this thread. If the Sony side was so bad, then why were the media create sales when PS2 was beating up on Gamecube like 2 pages long...and this is what? 12 pages now?

 

[CajoleJuice]

It's like 3 or 4 people on the Sony side... and those people have been trolling Nintendo for like years now. Can't expect that to change, but come on, you gotta admit, the ratio of haterade is much higher on the nintendo side.

I mean look at this thread. If the Sony side was so bad, then why were the media create sales when PS2 was beating up on Gamecube like 2 pages long...and this is what? 12 pages now?

It's less hate, and more celebration. The Sony fans didn't need to celebrate the PS2 destroying the Gamecube. Everyone knew it was going on. The Nintendo fans have to make sure everyone knows just how well the DS is doing in Japan. (Since it isn't doing all that much better than the PSP in NA)

 

[Tabris]

I can see that I guess, but it's -infecting- every single PSP thread.

Go through last 5 PSP threads and there's at least one troll in every thread. Go through the NDS threads, and ignoring Drinky, there's barely a single troll to be had.

 

[CajoleJuice]

I can see that I guess, but it's -infecting- every single PSP thread.

Go through last 5 PSP threads and there's at least one troll in every thread. Go through the NDS threads, and ignoring Drinky, there's barely a single troll to be had.

Oh, I didn't know that. That's pretty fucking pathetic.

 

[BudokaiMR2]

It's just because the Nintendo fans have the upper hand right now.

And that isn't always true. I posted in MAF's PSP games thread(Shoulda known better) but I just started getting attacked.

 

[Farmboy]

Pokemon Dash: 136,518
Kirbys Canvas Curse: 197,331
Yoshi Touch & Go: 215,249

all numbers as of November.

Ah, well so much for that theory. They're all around the 500K mark then, perhaps 600K to 700K if Europe is added. I guess they'll only have a shot at breaking 1 million if Nintendo gives them a Player's Choice-type rerelease.

 

[Tabris]

It's just because the Nintendo fans have the upper hand right now.

And that isn't always true. I posted in MAF's PSP games thread(Shoulda known better) but I just started getting attacked.

...that wasn't an NDS thread though. That's kind of the point... and that thread was strictly made cause of the PSP trolling.

 

[elostyle]

Well maybe I shouldn't speak for MAF, but my response to this thread is cause of every handheld thread being trolled by nbots right now.

Hell, I'm not even playing any games on my PSP for now. Just all about the GBASP still. But damn man...it's bloody insane right now with all the PSP-trolling and DS-praising.

You're going to have to give examples or I'm going to call selective reading on this. If all you bring up is from the "GTA PSP = RE4 GC!!!!!! PSPWNED" thread, then I will just sit here silently and shake my head all day.

 

[BudokaiMR2]

...that wasn't an NDS thread though. That's kind of the point... and that thread was strictly made cause of the PSP trolling.

So....because it's a PSP thread they are allowed to attack anyone who posts an opinion they don't like? It's like a chicken/egg question. "You started bashing PSP first!" "No you called my DS an antique first!"

Either way, I agree it is annoying.

And I really don't see that much trolling by Nbots.

 

[Deku]

LOL this whole situation is absolutely hilarious. Yeah I saw MAF's thread. Pretty sad to see the platform's biggest booster on this forum having to resort to starting threads asking about games to buy to keep the stalled hype train going.

I frankly don't think there's anything new worth buying nor are there very many current releases I want to recommend to anyone. I kept out of his thread as I absolutely have nothing positive to say about the PSP at this point in time and there's no point in my making posts about it as many others are already doing it and are much funnier to boot. DCCharlie and Kobun's stuff comes to mind.

As for his retaliation posts here, I gotta wonder if this guy takes his trolling as light heartedly as he used to claim. I remember a time when he mocked posters for getting riled up by anti-DS comments. Apparently, he can't take his own medicine.

 

[MrSardonic]

Time to get this thread back on track

 

[BudokaiMR2]

Time to get this thread back on track

Haha classic...omg...lol

 

[Shaheed79]

Real-Type games are doing VERY poorly.

That is complete and utter Bullshit. DS's "Real-Type" games are selling better than PSP's "Real-Type" games and so are the 3rd party games. I don't see how titles like AC and BT are bad for the DS or it's games market because with the help of these titles ton's more DS's are moving into consumers hands thus increasing sales of "Real Games" as those new DS owners look for other software to buy. PSP has had many more so called bombs in Japan than the DS and even it's Brain Training game outsold 99% of all it's "real games". This whole "DS is killing our traditional games!" schtik is way over-blown and for the most part, Bullshit.

Handheld games have ALWAYS been vastly lower selling software than console games no matter how great the graphics are (as Sony is now discovering). Most of those games you mentioned like Slime Mori 2 will post very good numbers through continued sales and DS's increasing userbase is only helping it to sell better. Those games would NOT of sold better if Brain Training, Nintendogs and Animal Crossing never existed.

 

[Dave Long]

You guys took MAFs troll bait hook, line and sinker.

 

[marvelharvey]

I can see that I guess, but it's -infecting- every single PSP thread.

There are PSP threads?

 

[BudokaiMR2]

There are PSP threads?

Haha...they definitely are overshadowed by the DS stuff. But it really can't be helped. The DS is just more popular right now.

 

[Grug]

I have found webcam footage of inside Nintendo Japan HQ.

 

[ziran]

the japanese videogame market was in trouble long before the ds came along.

the ds is a result of the declining market in japan, not the cause.

 

[MrSardonic]

the japanese videogame market was in trouble long before the ds came along.

the ds is a result of the declining market in japan, not the cause.

wtf

 

[ziran]

wtf

maybe i wasn't clear.

the japanese market has been facing a decline for over 5 years, the ds was created to give consumers something new. the decline in (current) videogame sales is not because of the ds's success.

 

[AniHawk]

...that wasn't an NDS thread though. That's kind of the point... and that thread was strictly made cause of the PSP trolling.

Oh, Tabris. :\

 

[elostyle]

There was a time when neo geo games sold 150k units in Japan *click*

 

[Diffense]

lol, it's funny to think about what went on here when PSP was outselling DS on a monthly basis (while still being behind in totals) by a comparatively small amount? Remember the Bomba photoshops DOOMED posts.

The way DS has been slaughtering the PSP for these many weeks of easter culminating in the crazy numbers of the last few weeks, I'd say the PSP bashing and victory celebrations could be a lot worse than it is.

You gotto be prepared to swallow what you dish out.

 

[Archie]

A 3DO game was in the top 30 =-O

 

[blackadde]

There was a time when neo geo games sold 150k units in Japan *click*

kof95 was definately not your typical neo-geo game. it was sf2-status 'big' in arcades.

 

[Red Blaster]

That is complete and utter Bullshit. DS's "Real-Type" games are selling better than PSP's "Real-Type" games and so are the 3rd party games. I don't see how titles like AC and BT are bad for the DS or it's games market because with the help of these titles ton's more DS's are moving into consumers hands thus increasing sales of "Real Games" as those new DS owners look for other software to buy. PSP has had many more so called bombs in Japan than the DS and even it's Brain Training game outsold 99% of all it's "real games". This whole "DS is killing our traditional games!" schtik is way over-blown and for the most part, Bullshit.

Nintendo "real-type" games are outselling the PSP ones indeed, but 3rd party ones are selling like shit. Slime Mori 2 was the highest selling 3rd party "real-type" game in December and Monster Hunter still outsold it by around 50k. Then again, I don't really keep up with this sort of thing, so there might be examples of 3rd party "real-type" games doing extremely well on the DS. *shrug*

 

[mj1108]

What can you possibly do against such behavior. And who cares about Japanese numbers. I mean do any of us live in japan? know japanese people? have japanese relatives? A scant few, me included.

It isnt even about the games anymore. Sure Nintendo fans will kid themselves, and rationalize playing another barely changed Mario Kart or the equally boring COME VISIT ME Animal Crossing, because its about tradition. Its about 'their side' and in reality when they spout their game shit, their innovate crap, its not even remotely CLOSE to what could keep so many people with Nintendo after the N64 and Gamecube, because its certainly not rational.

Its called Brand Loyalty, and Nintendo has it in the handheld arena. While Sony rules consoles by quite simply being a pounder, such loyalty has allowed Nintendo to exist by offering a different gameplay experience, a bad one at that, and their fans eating it up as innovation or 'good gameplay'.

You can throw numbers and charts and the names of several japanese game people I dont even know about, but what it comes down to is knowing why you play the system you play. I play EVERYTHING but the Nintendo DS, I even play the SP (and hell, owned both an N64 and Gamecube), and there is something in that I think.

I expect either silence, or the standard SHUT UP MAF U R A BAD TROLL THESE DAYS.

Awwww...is the little troll crying?? Do you want your mommy to put you down for a nap?

 

[MrSardonic]

the japanese market has been facing a decline for over 5 years, the ds was created to give consumers something new. the decline in (current) videogame sales is not because of the ds's success.

did anyone ever claim the DS was the CAUSE of the decline? or that the decline wasn't occuring BEFORE the DS was launched? The whole point of this thread is that it is littered with people saying the DS is going against the decline in Japan and expanding the market. I agree with what you're saying, I just thought everyone was aware that this was the case.

And I don't think this photoshop is getting enough love:

 

[jarrod]

You can throw numbers and charts and the names of several japanese game people I dont even know about, but what it comes down to is knowing why you play the system you play. I play EVERYTHING but the Nintendo DS, I even play the SP (and hell, owned both an N64 and Gamecube), and there is something in that I think.

It says brand loyalty works both ways. You should really get over whatever Nintendo issues you've got, you're missing out on some of the best games this year.

 

[Deleted member 1235]

MAF is full of it, he maybe used to have a point but DS just absolutely trounces PSP in the "which has better games" argument both released and coming now. Is anyone arguing that the PSP library is better than the DS library anymore, seriously?

 

[ziran]

did anyone ever claim the DS was the CAUSE of the decline? or that the decline wasn't occuring BEFORE the DS was launched? The whole point of this thread is that it is littered with people saying the DS is going against the decline in Japan and expanding the market. I agree with what you're saying, I just thought everyone was aware that this was the case.

I think instead of championing the DS' marvelous numbers, people should instead be terrified by what they actually mean. While it's certainly REALLY AWESOME AND STUFF that Nintendo's doing well, they aren't doing well for actual gamers. While I like the DS and enjoy the kind of innovation the DS brings, with games like Kirby, Jump Superstars, Ouendan, Trauma Center and such, and how games like Gyakuten Saiban and Castlevania benefit from the addition of an extra screen, the DS absolutely sucks and is setting an awful trend for games as a whole.

Real-Type games are doing VERY poorly. Kirby was once heralded as a savior to DS! and rising the charts! But, since the explosion of the DS, it hasn't been seen anywhere near the rise of sales of DS games. Same with Ouendan. Slime Morimori 2 and Jump Superstars, despite the enormous sales expected, haven't made any sort of mark at all on the charts. Slime 2 is at, what, maybe 250k, when the first sold about 700k? JSS sold maybe 500k so far? These should be killer-apps, and they aren't selling nearly what they should be.

i agree my point was obvious, but this post from amdof suggests great ds sales means trouble for 'real-type' gaming. i was saying this isn't true, the japanese market was declining long before so called non games were selling well on ds. the fact many games on ds haven't sold as well as some expected is a symptom of this declining market.

edit - also his view on sales isn't accurate. 500k in japan for a handheld game is great and slime morimori sold ~300k (350k max) on gba and the ds version will probably equal it.

 

[junkwaffle]

What can you possibly do against such behavior. And who cares about Japanese numbers. I mean do any of us live in japan? know japanese people? have japanese relatives? A scant few, me included.

It isnt even about the games anymore. Sure Nintendo fans will kid themselves, and rationalize playing another barely changed Mario Kart or the equally boring COME VISIT ME Animal Crossing, because its about tradition. Its about 'their side' and in reality when they spout their game shit, their innovate crap, its not even remotely CLOSE to what could keep so many people with Nintendo after the N64 and Gamecube, because its certainly not rational.

Its called Brand Loyalty, and Nintendo has it in the handheld arena. While Sony rules consoles by quite simply being a pounder, such loyalty has allowed Nintendo to exist by offering a different gameplay experience, a bad one at that, and their fans eating it up as innovation or 'good gameplay'.

You can throw numbers and charts and the names of several japanese game people I dont even know about, but what it comes down to is knowing why you play the system you play. I play EVERYTHING but the Nintendo DS, I even play the SP (and hell, owned both an N64 and Gamecube), and there is something in that I think.

I expect either silence, or the standard SHUT UP MAF U R A BAD TROLL THESE DAYS.

 

[elostyle]

What the fuck are real type games?

 

[Archie]

What the fuck are real type games?

Anything that isnt Nintendo because Nintendo only makes fisher price dollhouse simulators and brain quiz games lol

 

[elostyle]

To me real type games died when "I beat that game" or "I can't beat that game" became "I'm X hours in" and "I haven't sat through it yet". However, I'm not going to rant about it all day long.

It is a very stupid thing to only call the type of games you personally came to enjoy "real".

As much as I usually like reading eurogamer, this review runs down the same river.

 

[Frankfurter]

What the fuck are real type games?

"Real type game" is a term invented to ... play down the success of the DS software in Japan, because the successful DS software mainly consists of these bad ... non games.
To me, this whole "non game" thing is BS, as long as I can 'play' and have fun with the (non) game, it's a game to me - be it Nintendogs, Final Fantasy or GTA.

 

[Drinky Crow]

I don't see how a person can argue that the DS library *is* better than the PSPs. The DS lineup is pretty miserable, and expanding the market to non-gamers with non-games isn't really justification.

 

[ziran]

What the fuck are real type games?

Real-Type (Games)
adj.
Any game that doesn't achieve high sales on a Nintendo console.

Often used by anti-Nintendo fanBOTS:
- "Yeah but real-type games sell like shit on Nintendo"