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Media Create Sales 12/3 - 12/9 2007
- Thread starter Cheesemeister
- Start date
Segata Sanshiro
Member
It doesn't take more than a cursory glance at the screens to tell you they aren't. I think the PS2 remake is just a high-res'd version of the original NiGHTS engine, with some smoothing and transparencies added.Luckyman said:
Please don't. The only thing more annoying than signing off posts with a smug smiley and the word "RAWR" is this "bu bu bu bu bu bu bu" bullshit.Kurosaki Ichigo said:
LETTER 'T' MOTHERFUCKER DO YOU USE IT
jarrod said:
Neither is Hot shots if nobody knows its from Camelot except Gaf/4Chan readers.
Again, expectations. When something like Resident Evil UC can sell 400K world wide they arent shit. Not everything is going to sell gangbusters. Did people expect stuff like SCL to sell? Really?
Quality vis a vis sales, we knew it wasnt that when Zack and Wiki bombed.
Hellsing321
Member
Were there any big ads for We Love Golf? Or did Capcom just expect people to go out there and buy without ever hearing about it?
Mithos Yggdrasill
Banned
damisa said:According to sony themselves, they are targetting GT5sales of
250K - retail version
50K - PSN version
So Sony expects PSN version sales to be fairly negligible.
Well, if these are the facts, the first day of GT5P is disappointing.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Mithos Yggdrasill said:
I'm certainly no stranger to :loling at Sony's bombs, but I don't really see GT5P as a massive failure.
Using the typical first day * 2-4 = first week * 2-4 = lifetime, we have GT5P at 200k-800k. So let's dive a little deeper and consider previous GT sales:
GT3 - 468k first week - 1,438k lifetime
GT4 - 663k first week - 1,066k lifetime
GT4P - 203k first week - 757k lifetime
Assuming the worst legs, you end up with 1.6*first week = lifetime. If we apply that 1.6 figure to first day - first week sales, you end up with 128k lifetime. Realistically, it would be impossible for GT5P to do worse than this.
I would expect GT5P to do around 80k-120k first week, probably on the lower end of that. I think it's very feasible that over its lifetime, GT5P could easily break 250k without the PSN factor.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
HK-47 said:
It's almost at 200k in Japan AFAIK. That brings to 320k. I'm not sure what the European estimates are (and given that the Euro launch was Nov 30, I'm not sure anyone knows) but it's possible that it's over 400k, considering also Canada which is generally about 10% of the US in terms of Wii market (7% in terms of overall market)
I'd say all told the game will achieve the 600k that Capcom had estimated for year one. It might well do better than that, actually. Which would be good, because it'd be a sign to Capcom that while Zack and Wiki flopped, both Resident Evil titles beat expectations.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
HK-47 said:
I'm not sure if there's been a UK chart since then. I don't keep up on Euro charts very often. Either way, there's only been a maximum of one UK chart since then. The Euro release was Nov 30.
Mithos Yggdrasill
Banned
Hellsing321 said:
I agree that in many cases, the failure of a Third Party game is due to the lack of advertisments, but I think that Wii's nature is partly to blame either. Why ? Do you think that all PS2's games that succeed had big ads or big marketing budgets ?
Even with a relative big campaign Wii's games seems to have problem to sell decently or at least how we could expect on the leading home system.
Look at the X360: is the console more represented then the Wii in stores ? No, but many games (when they comes out
) sells relativity well considering the userbase. This means that Wii's audience is less responsive to new games that comes out.This means that Wii can be successfull for Third Parties, but games have to be:
1) good with good use of the Wiimote
2) well commercialised
3) possibly innovating
If you think about it, developing for Wii is not an easy choice as many can think...
test_account
XP-39C²
Kurosaki Ichigo
Member
bier earsSegata Sanshiro said:
yeah, I know that was bad...but that one wins annoying trophy handily, and its not a banned meme yet
Look, I know that it's totally the responsibility of publishers to advertise their own games, but I think at this stage, for the health of the Wii as a platform, Nintendo need to step in and help out with advertising for some 3rd party games. Maybe 1 or two from each big publisher. Help build some good will. It's not like they have to do it forever. It's obvious that a more hardcore gamer audience has yet to be built on the Wii. Nintendo need to make that happen, and they can't do it with their own franchises.
At this point certain 3rd party companies without western ties are going to be force to be handheld exclusives soon.
I worry for the little guys. The guys that don't have good franchise recognition, large budgets and money for advertising. The guys that sold 50-100K LTD (95 percent in japan) on the PS2 and was a great success.
The capcoms of the world will be fine. They large enough to not only create the legendary 3rd party game that could succeed on the Wii that contains good franchise recognition, good budget, and good advertising. Plus they have a strong enough over seas fanbase where they can take advantage of the more prosperous third party markets. Some might even get in with the king of 3rd party Mr 360.
Also, if MSG4 and FFXIII don't end up on the 360 it will be 2 of the greatest mistakes this gen. Not only for the respective companies but also for other developers of that genre. The FF series pretty much starts the JRPG generation for western markets. It will sell on the 360 and will cause other jrpgs to sell better on the 360. Its been like this every generation and I doubt this will be any different. MSG4 fit to a T of the perfect kind of game that would explode on the 360. Honestly if I was a major stockholder, I would put enormous pressure on Konomi and SE to make it happen.
I worry for the little guys. The guys that don't have good franchise recognition, large budgets and money for advertising. The guys that sold 50-100K LTD (95 percent in japan) on the PS2 and was a great success.
The capcoms of the world will be fine. They large enough to not only create the legendary 3rd party game that could succeed on the Wii that contains good franchise recognition, good budget, and good advertising. Plus they have a strong enough over seas fanbase where they can take advantage of the more prosperous third party markets. Some might even get in with the king of 3rd party Mr 360.
Also, if MSG4 and FFXIII don't end up on the 360 it will be 2 of the greatest mistakes this gen. Not only for the respective companies but also for other developers of that genre. The FF series pretty much starts the JRPG generation for western markets. It will sell on the 360 and will cause other jrpgs to sell better on the 360. Its been like this every generation and I doubt this will be any different. MSG4 fit to a T of the perfect kind of game that would explode on the 360. Honestly if I was a major stockholder, I would put enormous pressure on Konomi and SE to make it happen.
legend166 said:
Here's a question: how much DOES Nintendo help with advertising some of the games on the Wii and DS from third parties in Japan specifically?
In the last year I have been absolutely shocked at the number of TV adverts in the UK for third party titles on Wii and DS (though nothing beats seeing an advert for HARVEST MOON DS of all games.) From my understanding that has helped a reasonable amount, if not spectacularly. But to me it sounds like this doesn't happen in Japan nearly as much.
Maybe NOE should have a few words with their Japanese overlords about advertising strategies...
Ok, your post is a little confusing. Why is it S-E's problem to make JRPG's sell on the 360? Final Fantasy doesn't need the 360 to sell but clearly the 360 needs Final Fantasy XIII. You see, the problem is, FFXIII already has 2+yrs development on the PS3 and therefore making the 360 version for simultaneous would cause FFXIII to be delayed into 2010 at the earliest, at which point it will help no JRPG's sell on any system. And if the PS3 version gets a 1yr+ head start on the 360 version then the 360 version would be a waste of time anyway. You see, the US market is not exactly a strong one for JRPG's so these excellent attach ratios of the 360 are meaningless to FFXIII because even the 360's own JRPG's are not freakin selling. FFXIII will receive most of it's sales from Japan and if you think Japan will choose the 360 version over the PS3 version so that future JRPG's can sell on the 360 you are in lala land.ccbfan said:
Blue Dragon, Eternal Sonala and now Lost Odyssey shows what happens to JRPG's on the 360.
As for MGS4, I am certain we will see a version sometime fall 09, if not even later, but if you think it will just light up the 360 sale charts after being on the PS3 for over a year I think you are sadly mistaken.
Face facts, these 2 games, unless they receive unprecedented delays are not going to do much on the 360. If these games succeed, they will need to do so on the PS3.
Insane Metal
Member
Mithos Yggdrasill said:
50k for GT5P? >_____>'
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Which, in turn, is why he's saying not releasing these titles on the 360 day and date could be so harmful to them.Lightning said:
He's talking more global, and not just about Japan (in a Japanese sales thread even).
If MGS4 is going to have success in America it should come out on the 360. At best it'll be a moderate seller on the PS3.
But hey, who knows. The PS3 might have a few month jump and MGS4 hits well over a million odd units, and creeps farther as time goes on... The problem with such a thought is just how frontloaded MGS sales are.
My 2cents,
3rd parties have nowhere to sell their games anymore in Japan. Some people say DS, but unless you are the hot fucking shit (aka, 5% of games) you still sell like shit on DS, just as much as you sell like shit on the Wii/PS3/X360/PSP and somewhat PS2.
The real answer isn't publishers saying "lets put our games 'here'", it's "let's cut our budget in half and lower our expectations". I wouldn't be surprised if most of the games going into production right now have half the budget of a game five years ago.
In the end gamers lose :\
This is just the end result of a split market. If a market has 5 systems tied at equal marketshare, it's great for hardware since it causes the hardware guys to compete more and is good for the consumers, but it's the worst case scenario for the publishers in Japan who don't do multi-platform. In a 5 split market, publishers just see themselves selling 1/5th the amount they would have sold in a one console market or xx in a two console, etc...software-wise we're seeing middle-tier software stuff selling fairly close on all platforms which is giving headaches to everyone in Japan. Splitting up the market is the worst thing you can do for games unfortunately, and I don't see this changing until the next gen.
3rd parties have nowhere to sell their games anymore in Japan. Some people say DS, but unless you are the hot fucking shit (aka, 5% of games) you still sell like shit on DS, just as much as you sell like shit on the Wii/PS3/X360/PSP and somewhat PS2.
The real answer isn't publishers saying "lets put our games 'here'", it's "let's cut our budget in half and lower our expectations". I wouldn't be surprised if most of the games going into production right now have half the budget of a game five years ago.
In the end gamers lose :\
This is just the end result of a split market. If a market has 5 systems tied at equal marketshare, it's great for hardware since it causes the hardware guys to compete more and is good for the consumers, but it's the worst case scenario for the publishers in Japan who don't do multi-platform. In a 5 split market, publishers just see themselves selling 1/5th the amount they would have sold in a one console market or xx in a two console, etc...software-wise we're seeing middle-tier software stuff selling fairly close on all platforms which is giving headaches to everyone in Japan. Splitting up the market is the worst thing you can do for games unfortunately, and I don't see this changing until the next gen.
We pretty much know now that even if their are 360 releases of MGS4 and FFXIII that they will not be at the same time as the PS3. And as you said, MGS is very front loaded, meaning timed exclusive becomes a major factor and it's already set in stone. Nothing can change that now.Thunder Monkey said:
I mean, you don't have to be very clever to figure out that Sony have got their finger in the pie regarding these games, especially MGS4, but I am very sure they are with FFXIII as well.
Hcoregamer00
The 'H' stands for hentai.
Bebpo said:
So essentially your thesis statement is that having equal marketshare is competitive in the hardware level but in the software level it is the worst thing possible because it segments the markets into little parts.
I totally agree.
The PS2 had the advantage of having the best game lineup because the 120+ million users contained many smaller markets. It had the free roaming fans, the JRPG freaks, the Anime gamers, Casual Gamers, etc. With this generation you have a straight segmentation of the markets; The XBOX 360 is the center of western gaming, mainly FPS, the DS is the home of RPG's and Nintendo franchises, the Wii is home for Casual Gaming, the PS3 at the moment doesn't have a market (and by extension is fighting XBOX 360 for the same market), the PSP is home to a hodgepodge of genres, but doesn't excel at a target market.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
I'm not denying that.Lightning said:
I have no doubt Sony is involved with a lot of what MGS4 is doing, and where it's going. MGS4 and FXIII are kind of last ditch efforts for the PS3.
What I'm saying is that might hurt those games in the end. The PS3 is going nowhere fast anywhere. Japan release for the PS3, and PS3/360 release in America and Europe. That would be a good thing for those games.
Hcoregamer00 said:
Well, it depends - there are certainly some companies who have done extremely well on the 360 by matching their games to the userbase. So it doesn't always have to be a losing proposition. But yeah, in general I'd say the more equally split the market is, the harder it is for third-party exclusives to thrive by matching up with their intended userbase.
But the PS3 and Wii have only been out for one year now. I just think the console market is going through some transition pains, as it seems a really huge chunk of the PS2 userbase hasn't moved on. Once more gamers start transitioning, third parties should begin to see higher sales.
Despite the lack of third-party blockbusters on the DS (well, besides Square), I bet Japanese developers thank their lucky stars it exists, because otherwise a lot of them would be bankrupt (I seriously doubt Square-Enix would still be solvent if the DS was not there to prop it up). The PS3 was supposed to be their bread-and-butter this gen, but that's obviously not worked out so far, and the 360 just isn't an attractive proposition for the majority of Japanese developers who can't afford to release their games in the West. So it's either take a leap of faith with the Wii or bide their time with the DS until the PS2 userbase transitions (if ever). But the DS is a pretty profitable console even without "blockbuster" sales, so it can't be all that bad.
MGS4 it might hurt but since FFXIII will gain majority of it's sales in Japan so I don't think a 360 release will matter in the grand scheme of things.Thunder Monkey said:
But since we know that Sony is invloved and that Konami/S-E are obviously ok with it or accepted Sony's money in exchange none of this really matters. In the MGS4 case, Konami/Kojima strongly feel that it's a Playstation franchise so they want it to end there and Sony financially offset it. So in the end, does it really matter if these games don't sell all they could have? As long as they are the best games they could've been it doesn't matter.
I would hate large delays due to port reasons though and for equal 360 release with PS3 that is exactly what will happen. For FFXIII, it will result in the game being delayed until right near the tail of the generation. Who the hell wants that? Doesn't help anyone then.
I also don't expect anymore high budget massive releases from Konami anyway, regardless of how well MGS4 does. Everything from them hints that they want to go in another direction.
D.Lo
Member
There has still yet to be a single high quality, major budget, long development time 3rd party game made for Wii. It has not had a MGS2, a FFX, a Devil May Cry, a Silent Hill 2, a Tales of Whatever, a proper Musou, a proper new Resident Evil - or even a VF5 or a Ridge Racer. By far the highest selling 3rd party game so far this gen has been on the Wii, and has sold well and to historical expectations based on its spin-off status.Bebpo said:
It's not even about 'tailoring the game to the platform' or whatever - someone just needs to put some effort in. MH3 looks to be the first actual example of this. Of course it has been hard for them as the obvious choice is doing worse then Saturn and GameCube. But they should have woken up by now and there should have been more announcements, even if only for games 1.5 years away.
If Japanese third parties want a console market in Japan they can be a part of then they have only one choice - rally behind Wii. It is not Nintendo who will suffer if they don't.
iidesuyo said:
Well, games have always bombed - that's a constant of the video game business. Even the mega-publishers like EA have trouble turning a profit. But somehow most manage to survive financially. I will say, though, that the 40% expansion in 2006 is probably from the absolutely anemic performance of the Japanese market the year earlier - in many ways the DS really was the savior of the Japanese gaming market.
It's not surprising that some Japanese publishers are turning more to Western customers (Square's openly said that it wants 75% of its business to be foreign) - consoles are in a weaker position than last gen in Japan, and the userbase is less "hardcore" overall. Meanwhile, America snaps up COD4 and Mario Galaxy like crazy. If you're a traditional publisher of "hardcore" games, then yeah, the West is your (better) bet now. But not every Japanese developer/publisher has that option. International publishing/distribution deals are not that easy to secure.