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[Shard]

it's never going to vanish completely. only concepts and little things like focus until one day, the top ten looks different totally and developers change shift

Just what the hell are you on about Ami? You actually think that games like Brain Age or Animal Crossing or The Sims are a bigger threat to the industry then say microtransactions or the rising cost of gaming?

 

[soundwave05]

I think actually games like Brain Training are merely a means to an end for Nintendo.

It gets people interested in their platform, and that allows a game like New Super Mario Bros. to sell numbers that it otherwise wouldn't. No way does NSMB do 3-4 million in sales in Japan without the phenomenonal success the DS has had the past year.

If you gave Nintendo the option of going back to 1994 when the style of gaming/content in games like Yoshi's Island, Megaman, Castlevania, Donkey Kong Country, Sonic, Street Fighter, etc. ruled the roost ... I think they'd be quite happy with that.

If the DS had flopped its first year ... the fact is, you may never see games like Megaman ZX or New Super Mario Bros. period, because those types of games don't sell at all on the PSP either.

 

[Amir0x]

Just what the hell are you on about Ami? You actually think that games like Brain Age or Animal Crossing or The Sims are a bigger threat to the industry then say microtransactions or the rising cost of gaming?

Yup. Although, microtransactions might deserve equal billing of hate.

 

[ethelred]

Despite Ami's spittle-lipped ranting, ZX's launch is pretty good, really. Ever since Zero 1, the series' sales have been consistently trending downward. ZX is the first game to turn that trend around, with launch week sales higher than Zero 4's (while still a bit lower than Zero 3). Not bad at all. And if ZX can maintain longer selling than Zero 3/4 (which is quite possible given how some DS games sell), it should end up with quite a decent LTD.

 

[Amir0x]

Xenosaga III sold 134,000 the same week Megaman ZX sold 38,000. I'm sorry, there's no good way to spin that.

 

[KINGMOKU]

I think actually games like Brain Training are merely a means to an end for Nintendo.

It gets people interested in their platform, and that allows a game like New Super Mario Bros. to sell numbers that it otherwise wouldn't. No way does NSMB do 3-4 million in sales in Japan without the phenomenonal success the DS has had the past year.

If you gave Nintendo the option of going back to 1994 when the style of gaming/content in games like Yoshi's Island, Megaman, Castlevania, Donkey Kong Country, Sonic, Street Fighter, etc. ruled the roost ... I think they'd be quite happy with that.

If the DS had flopped its first year ... the fact is, you may never see games like Megaman ZX or New Super Mario Bros. period, because those types of games don't sell at all on the PSP either.

Be quite now. The angry non-game hating horde will hear you....

 

[Shard]

It is nice to see some people with a actual, well reasoned prespective around here. Anyway, I am sorry to say but it think you are delusional when you make that statment Ami. As much painful is to say, Brain Age, English Training, Animal Crossing, and the rest are not killing the industry they are helping to save the industry, at least in Japan.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Indeed, it will be a dark day when Nintendo actually brings out a proper 3D portable system.

That will be the day that they can produce a proper 3d system and still turn a profit at a $150 price point. I'd expect it to be an extension of the DS architecture, and probabally released to coincide with a competitors new system. Can you see a DS with a 333mhz arm9 and a 480x272 top screen? Released to compete with a PSP2 that uses a Super UMDs (9 gigs to make them capable of reaching full DVD resolutions) and a higher density screen maybe?

Ugh. I hope not anytime soon.

 

[soundwave05]

Be quite now. The angry non-game hating horde will hear you....

It's just funny the biggest critics of the DS/Wii on this board are Amirox, Drinky Crow, etc., yet they're the biggest proponents of games like Megaman ZX and "old school" style gaming.

The DS is the last bation of hope for this style of gaming. It's not financially feasible any longer with the direction Sony is trying to push the industry towards.

Without Brain Training/Nintendogs, maybe the DS flops outright, and then you wouldn't have a platform left for the Megaman ZXs/New Super Mario Bros. .... companies would just cancel those projects and go work on 3D projects.

I like my technology too ... but I'm starting to see that there's a conflict between this ever increasing tech race and the style of gaming I really enjoy. The old-school types of games are being left behind ... if the DS and Wii can become the new home for these types of franchises and maybe introduce this style of gaming to a less jaded new crowd of people -- I'm all for it.

You can't convince the "hardcore" kids these days to play Megaman ZX or something ... they want Grand Theft Auto or bust, but I'm going to guess some of those DS users who bought as DS for Brain Training may now have also have bought New Super Mario Bros.

 

[Amir0x]

As much painful is to day, Brain Age, English Training, Animal Crossing, and the rest are not killing the industry they are helping to save the industry, at least in Japan.

Sorry, i guess i should clarify - it's killing the industry for REAL gamers. you're right, this is helping game companies make more money! fake gamers unite.

 

[Oblivion]

PSP2

:lol Good luck with that.

 

[ant1532]

shit, I'll take anything as long as it ensures more megaman... but that doesn't forgive their sins. 38,000 is ****ing horrible, especially in light of what sold BETTER, and rejecting technologically competent megaman is a unforgiveable sin.

.

 

[Battersea Power Station]

That will be the day that they can produce a proper 3d system and still turn a profit at a $150 price point. I'd expect it to be an extension of the DS architecture, and probabally released to coincide with a competitors new system. Can you see a DS with a 333mhz arm9 and a 480x272 top screen? Released to compete with a PSP2 that uses a Super UMDs (9 gigs to make them capable of reaching full DVD resolutions) and a higher density screen maybe?

Ugh. I hope not anytime soon.

The problem here is that PSP2 will obviously feature a touch screen, and that I don't think Nintendo's brand name in the handheld arena can save them from that. By then, developers will have figured out how to make good use of the touch screen and will gladly make effective and compelling games for Sony's portable console.

If Nintendo has any hope to prevent this, they have to severly harm the Playstation brand as a whole, and with a huge Wii success is the only way this is possible.

I'll keep my fingers crossed.

 

[Amir0x]

I mean seriously guys. XENOSAGA III. no words...

 

[Shard]

Sorry, i guess i should clarify - it's killing the industry for REAL gamers. you're right, this is helping game companies make more money! fake gamers unite.

Okay, let me ask you a few other questions. Is every game out there in Japan a RPG? Have racing game suddenly vanished from our eyes? Has Megaman been retired for all time?

 

[Battersea Power Station]

I mean seriously guys. XENOSAGA III. no words...

Not just Xeonosaga -- any RPG.

The millions that buy Final Fantasies are also "fake gamers." RPG is not a real video game genre. They're video games lite at the most.

 

[Amir0x]

Okay, let me ask you a few other questions. Is every game out there in Japan a RPG? Have racing game suddenly vanished from our eyes? Has Megaman been retired for all time?

of course not. it's about focus. we'll see how the battlefield is after next-gen is done

 

[soundwave05]

If the Wii is successful ... you will see MORE games like Megaman ZX IMO.

If it flops ... then games like Megaman ZX and that style of gaming is finished for consoles.

There's no place for it on the PS3/XBox 360 IMO ... Mr. Inafune of Capcom basically already said as much.

That's actually the main reason I'm looking forward to the Wii -- not because of controller even, but because it could become the bastion for franchises like Metal Slug, Megaman, etc. I hope that (a good) Star Fox, Punch-Out!, Street Fighter, etc. are also in the cards. I mean I like state-of-the-art graphics, but gimme a good Star Fox or Megaman or F-Zero with decent "XBox 1.2" graphics ... and f*ck Gears of War, I'm so there.

If that Nintendo WiFi retro service takes off like crazy ... a lot of these older franchises may be revisited.

 

[Shard]

of course not. it's about focus. we'll see how the battlefield is after next-gen is done

I think I understand what the is causing your little night terror here, you are afraid of the bandwagon effect, and yes it will happen, but it isn't going to kill the industry. Shit, even Nintendo isn't abandoning the tradtional market and hey what do you know Mario is still the biggest franchise in the world. What you miss is that the afromentioned products are not killing the industry in Japan but rather raising it. To wit, the Nintendo DS has been a smash sucess and the PSP is faring well and everything garners more visibility.

 

[Filter]

I mean seriously guys. XENOSAGA III. no words...

if only that were true.

 

[Oblivion]

Did you guys see the assload of non-games on the DS at E3? ****, we might as well rename the U.S. to Neo-Japan already.

 

[ethelred]

Did you guys see the assload of non-games on the DS at E3? ****, we might as well rename the U.S. to Neo-Japan already.

I was fairly disheartened by the presence of all of those. And it wasn't just the sheer number of non-games versus games, it was also about the presence and the emphasis and the focus. I mean, Nintendo had this huge area spread out across the entire hall where the Touch Generations stuff was placed, and then all the real game demos were slotted into this tiny corner. Embarrassing.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

The problem here is that PSP2 will obviously feature a touch screen, and that I don't think Nintendo's brand name in the handheld arena can save them from that. By then, developers will have figured out how to make good use of the touch screen and will gladly make effective and compelling games for Sony's portable console.

But at that point, isn't it the GameCube problem? Fix things that were a problem with N64/PSP, but by that time you're trying to sell a me-too system in a market with an established leader.

 

[soundwave05]

But at that point, isn't it the GameCube problem? Fix things that were a problem with N64/PSP, but by that time you're trying to sell a me-too system in a market with an established leader.

Bingo.

Systems that have that "this is what we should've done .... 5 years ago!" never work in this industry.

 

[Jiggy]

It's just funny the biggest critics of the DS/Wii on this board are Amirox, Drinky Crow, etc., yet they're the biggest proponents of games like Megaman ZX and "old school" style gaming.

The DS is the last bastion of hope for this style of gaming. It's not financially feasible any longer with the direction Sony is trying to push the industry towards.

Without Brain Training/Nintendogs, maybe the DS flops outright, and then you wouldn't have a platform left for the Megaman ZXs/New Super Mario Bros. .... companies would just cancel those projects and go work on 3D projects.

I like my technology too ... but I'm starting to see that there's a conflict between this ever increasing tech race and the style of gaming I really enjoy. The old-school types of games are being left behind ... if the DS and Wii can become the new home for these types of franchises and maybe introduce this style of gaming to a less jaded new crowd of people -- I'm all for it.

You can't convince the "hardcore" kids these days to play Megaman ZX or something ... they want Grand Theft Auto or bust, but I'm going to guess some of those DS users who bought as DS for Brain Training may now have also have bought New Super Mario Bros.

I've been thinking somewhat along these lines since at least 1998*, but yeah, that's a great post. At least you're seeing it now.

[Edit: Okay, that sounds way more arrogant than it should. What I mean is maybe more like "at least someone's agreeing with me now."]



*This being the year I realized gaming was unshakably going to be moving in a direction I hated. Mario 64's open-ended, unfocused sandbox worlds were the first indicator in 1996; FFVII's interactive movie aspects were extra evidence in 1997; Ocarina of Time's Z-targeting (AKA auto-aim, AKA dumbing-down) was the last needed bit of proof.

 

[cvxfreak]

Well, O-ryouri Nabi (Nintendo's DS cooking game) is above FFIII in Amazon JP's pre-orders. :lol

http://www.amazon.co.jp/exec/obidos...ogames/all/ref=ts_vgh_1_f/503-2746627-5636767

 

[Amir0x]

man amazon pre-orders don't mean shit

 

[NintendosBooger]

lol @ you guys complaining about the non-games.

Maybe if current "veteran" gamers and developers, most of whom were bred as a result of Nintendo, chose to support Nintendo instead of flocking to the so-called cooler systems like the Sega Genesis and the Sony Playstation, they would have stuck with the original formula, but don't blame them for giving the middle finger to traditional gamers and everyone else after receiving the same courtesy by the same parties.

The same people who grew up playing NES and the SNES aren't helping them now (i.e., look at the Gamecube sales), so they're starting from scratch and targeting those that will.

 

[DefectiveReject]

how strange
I came in here looking for discussion about this weeks media create figures, and all i got was 3 pages of non sense about individual game tastes not being the same.
My IQ level dropped 10 points after reading this thread.

But anyway non games are great, you don't have to buy them No-one is holding a gun to your head and saying BUY BRAIN TRAINING. Its one non game amongst thousands of games out there, and opens up a new avenue for people who don’t necessarily like “Normal” games, but want to have something to play.

 

[Shard]

how strange
I came in here looking for discussion about this weeks media create figures, and all i got was 3 pages of non sense about individual game tastes not being the same.
My IQ level dropped 10 points after reading this thread.

I think we are all bored over the current circumstances, the status doesn't get much quoer then that list.

 

[Deleted member 1235]

Sorry, i guess i should clarify - it's killing the industry for REAL gamers.

what a load of shit amirox, really.

Games arent going anywhere. However, maybe some developer should take note and sell something awesome at 20 bux for once.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

I think we are all bored over the current circumstances, the status doesn't get much quoer then that list.

Sales-age hasn't been fun since DS destroyed the competition at christmas.

 

[Shard]

what a load of shit amirox, really.

Games arent going anywhere. However, maybe some developer should take note and sell something awesome at 20 bux for once.

Like Namco with Katamari.

 

[elostyle]

Non-game trolling is so 2005...

 

[cybamerc]

I haven't played a Mega Man game since the NES but if the series is anything like it was back in the day it isn't exactly mainstream material. Bitching about Animal Crossing as if it somehow affects sales of Mega Man negatively is just ridiculous.

 

[Frankfurter]

Wow, this thread got really long :lol

 

[verplant]

DS 3rd party software seems to stick around in the top 30 for longer than PSP third party software to boot though.

Look at Children of Mana still in the top 30. Aside from Monster Hunter and Sega's Brain Training games, PSP software tends to drop like a rock after it's first week.

Anyways, Street Fighter Alpha 3 > Tekken.

all 3rd party sales this year: klick

Seiken Densetsu DS: Children of Mana was the strongest release in first half of 2006 - but Tamagotchi 2, Mushi King 2 and Final Fantasy III surely will top that.

 

[Burnst]

Oh god, what are people still trying to prove with the twisted third party argument?

 

[Error]

where was Amir0x when Megaman Powered Up sold like shit here in the states too? when MMPU is the best PSP game yet.

ZX did pretty good, Megaman is not that popular you can't expect people to buy it like people are buying NSMB even if it's an awesome game like ZX. RPGs always sell good in japan even crappy ones like Xenosaga this is nothing new.

 

[Mr. Pointy]

38,000 is terrible for a game the quality of Megaman ZX. If it did at least XENOSAGA III numbers I'd be like 'oh, ok... i'll take it.'

MMZ4 launched for this much and topped out at ~450k. ZX should do the same, although I can't remember when the Zero games launched.

Also, Tekken la bomba.

 

[Amir0x]

where was Amir0x when Megaman Powered Up sold like shit here in the states too? when MMPU is the best PSP game yet.

ZX did pretty good, Megaman is not that popular you can't expect people to buy it like people are buying NSMB even if it's an awesome game like ZX. RPGs always sell good in japan even crappy ones like Xenosaga this is nothing new.

As much as I like Powered Up, it's a still just a remake. ZX is original! But no, don't worry, I was outraged at the rejection of Poweredup and Maverick Hunter X.

 

[Magicpaint]

MMZ4 launched for this much and topped out at ~450k. ZX should do the same, although I can't remember when the Zero games launched.

Also, Tekken la bomba.

Eh? MMZ4 didn't sell up to 80K total.

 

[Error]

As much as I like Powered Up, it's a still just a remake. ZX is original! But no, don't worry, I was outraged at the rejection of Poweredup and Maverick Hunter X.

good

keep on bashin japanese gamers taste.

 

[Mr. Pointy]

Eh? MMZ4 didn't sell up to 80K total.

I must have got Z4 confused with .EXE4 or something.

 

[DemDereNads]

Thank you Tekken and Rockman for trying to make the top 10 at least a bit interesting. Hell even WE10 is better than nothing.

Unfortunately, you'll both be gone next week. For shame.

 

[jj984jj]

I guess NSMB isn't enough of a game to make the charts interesting.

 

[Magicpaint]

I guess NSMB isn't enough of a game to make the charts interesting.

Too many sales to make it a real game.

 

[Mr. Pointy]

NSMB is more of a game than any of these other so-called 'games' on the charts combined.

Tekken and Rockman ZX = non-games compared to NSMB.

 

[Kurosaki Ichigo]

2. (PS2, Namco) Xenosaga Episode III - 123847 / new
4. (PSP, Namco) Tekken Dark Resurrection - 49426
6. (DS, Capcom) Rockman ZX - 33,652 / new

Go Xenosaga! Great numbers for the 3rd episode, it'll hold up to X2 (250k) this long in ps2 life and being another direct sequel of a hated game/series. Oh, anyway, it doesn't hold up to Tales numbers, so I guess Xenosaga is really ending here...more tales milking to come!

Tekken 1st day stimate was off...and now it seems it bombed. Well, it has :lol
Nah, not really bombing, but not good number either. Not bad for Tekken 5-PS2-320k portable version anyway.

Rockman ZX, another dissapointing 3rd party sales...
　▼　Rockman Zero 02.04.26 GBA 66,980 37,519 18,890 231,166 28.97 %
　▼　Rockman Zero 2 03.05.02 GBA 53,839 25,283 10,029 158,479 33.97 %
　▼　Rockman Zero 3 04.04.23 GBA 44,330 22,355 18,264 121,847 36.38 %
　▼　Rockman Zero 4 05.04.21 GBA 27,596 13,063 10,802 74,354 37.11 %
Just a little better than RZ4 that didn't reach 100k...well, I thought it would do better. If they plan to release a new one every year just like Zero its going to hurt...

 

[DemDereNads]

I guess NSMB isn't enough of a game to make the charts interesting.

It's a good game, I just don't personally find it worthy of the sales it's getting, but hey... it's from Nintendo which it doesn't seem to matter what they put out, it will sell.