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Media Create Sales 5/14 - 5/20

speedpop

Has problems recognising girls
davepoobond said:
to what effect is the mainstream press coverage granting the other wii games?
I don't think Nintendo themselves are really bothering with this analogy - nor the Nintendo fans. You buy a Nintendo system for the 1st/2nd party games, everything else is just a bonus. If the mainstream press shows off Wii Sports on a segment that is $$ to Nintendo because there are chances that people will see said game being shown and become interested in the console.

And if the unit sales are there developers will flock as is evident with the PS1 & PS2.
 
speedpop said:
I don't think Nintendo themselves are really bothering with this analogy - nor the Nintendo fans. You buy a Nintendo system for the 1st/2nd party games, everything else is just a bonus. If the mainstream press shows off Wii Sports on a segment that is $$ to Nintendo because there are chances that people will see said game being shown and become interested in the console.

And if the unit sales are there developers will flock as is evident with the PS1 & PS2.

It is a pretty simple business when you break it down really.

Get the masses talking about your system, get your system into their homes, and good things happen.
 

davepoobond

you can't put a price on sparks
soundwave05 said:
The Wii is the hottest video game product out right now pretty much bar none.

dont need to state the obvious now. i've seen the numbers.

Contrast that to where Nintendo was about 2 years ago.

going off on a tangent here, now.


Obviously something is happening in areas where Nintendo was shit-last just a few years ago -- namely

1.) Mindshare

2.) Word of mouth

3.) Mainstream marketing/"buzz"

okay? what's this got to do with anything? we're talking about the products now not how they were 2 years ago. their turn around (or "apparent turn around" if i want to be future-proof in my statement) is all fine and dandy and a great story to tell when watching a documentary about their company.

Gears Of War is a terrific game with a nice marketing campaign ... but it's just another game. It's a lot like what Splinter Cell was to the first XBox.

Wii Sports is "just another game" to me. doesn't make it any less important, now does it?

Games like Super Mario Bros., DOOM, Mortal Kombat, Tomb Raider, Pokemon, GTA3, The Sims, ... those are the types of games that reach the true level of mainstream acceptance and mindshare ... that's where Wii Sports is headed.

except the properties that you mentioned have a lot more subject matter and opportunities to milk, as well as controversy involved.

Mario - has a million games and a movie
DOOM - became controversial (meaning bad mainstream coverage), had a movie made
MK - had a movie made, has actual characters with names. has yearly sequels
Tomb Raider - had 2 movies made
Pokemon - has a tv show, card game, movies, more than just games itself
GTA - had Hot Coffee goin for it, and the SEC breathing down Take 2's neck.

They can't make a movie out of Wii Sports, can they? Repetition of coverage in the same news source would seem like a total moneyhatted venture to me, as well, considering there are no extra ventures for the Wii Sports brand to be derived into.


speedpop said:
I don't think Nintendo themselves are really bothering with this analogy - nor the Nintendo fans.

i would think that Nintendo has some vested interest in seeing third party game sales on their system since they get a royalty fee from each unit sold...just saying they don't care about it outright seems pretty silly to me. Of course they care about it.
 

speedpop

Has problems recognising girls
davepoobond said:
i would think that Nintendo has some vested interest in seeing third party game sales on their system since they get a royalty fee from each unit sold...just saying they don't care about it outright seems pretty silly to me. Of course they care about it.
Of course they would, but getting the consoles out there in the first place are the main priority for them which is what I was pointing out. Mainstream media coverage about how fun and great a certain title on the Wii is -> more sales of Wii consoles -> more 3rd party support being pledged.

We know Nintendo care about 3rd party offerings based on perceived release dates for their 1st party line-ups on both DS and Wii as they don't want to tread on any toes from what people are suggesting.

Heck I don't even know what the initial argument was on the last page.
 
Nintendo just needs to keep selling systems, basically just keep doing what they're doing.

Third parties aren't terribly complicated entities ... you get userbase and to quote a somewhat famous football movie, the panties drop.

Nintendo's already gotten the hard parts out of the way -- they got out of the crucial first 6-8 months on market with flying colors, they have their one-two killer apps in Wii Sports + Zelda already out, they have the mainstream press and mainstream public all over their product.

Now it's just a matter of keeping the snowball effect going. When you have momenteum in this industry everything is easy. When you don't (and this is what Sony is learning) everything that can go wrong, usually does go wrong.

Also things like the Super Mario Bros. came like 8 years after the game was a blockbuster, they had nothing to do with the original game's success at all.
 
davepoobond said:
They can't make a movie out of Wii Sports, can they?
Never underestimate the power of the brain damaged hollywood mass media.

If we were to see it, it would be a machinima fox kids cartoon with named Miis and annoying voiceovers.

I hope it doesn't happen.
 

davepoobond

you can't put a price on sparks
bmf said:
Never underestimate the power of the brain damaged hollywood mass media.

If we were to see it, it would be a machinima fox kids cartoon with named Miis and annoying voiceovers.

I hope it doesn't happen.


it'd have to be a show about the Miis, if anything. but even then...
 

davepoobond

you can't put a price on sparks
bmf said:
My brain is already rebelling. It would probably be worse than Vogon Poetry.

oh i could totally pitch an idea about Miis in different situations. and each episode would be a different game, and some of them would be based on the different mini games they're featured in

it would be nice


it'd be like Reboot, except episodic, and not have a continuous storyline until it got old in season 8 when ratings started to fall.
 
It would be like Captain N all over again but in 3d. Please mommy no. Make it stop. What's even worse is that they'd probably have a Captain N cameo episode where they shill Virtual Console games.

The Horror!

Can some mod please delete these posts before Monday? I fear for all humanity if Nintendo gets a hold of the idea.

Ugh.

I can just imagine the african-american demographic ghetto mii. You know how it would be voiced too.

Aagh. My brain.
 
davepoobond said:
except the properties that you mentioned have a lot more subject matter and opportunities to milk, as well as controversy involved.

Mario - has a million games and a movie
DOOM - became controversial (meaning bad mainstream coverage), had a movie made
MK - had a movie made, has actual characters with names. has yearly sequels
Tomb Raider - had 2 movies made
Pokemon - has a tv show, card game, movies, more than just games itself
GTA - had Hot Coffee goin for it, and the SEC breathing down Take 2's neck.

They can't make a movie out of Wii Sports, can they? Repetition of coverage in the same news source would seem like a total moneyhatted venture to me, as well, considering there are no extra ventures for the Wii Sports brand to be derived into.

Wii Sports' aim is to legitimize video gaming to the mainstream and change the perception that it's not all about bald space marines. They don't have to make a movie about it(but then again, they are planning on filming a The Sims movie....).

It's sole purpose is to make it THE videogame equivalent of a blockbuster movie/show/song/books.
 

davepoobond

you can't put a price on sparks
titiklabingapat said:
It's sole purpose is to make it THE videogame equivalent of a blockbuster movie/show/song/books.

i dont see how wii sports' sole purpose is any different than any other game's sole purpose....
 

Eteric Rice

Member
FlightOfHeaven said:
Wow, the MiiShow idea is great! Wait 'till I pitch it to the other guys at Nintendo on Monday! We'll make a killing.

I TOLD YOU GUYS THEY WERE WATCHING US! BUT NOOO... NO ONE WOULD LISTEN!

:D
 
davepoobond said:
i dont see how wii sports' sole purpose is any different than any other game's sole purpose....

It's not the purpose that's different. The success of the title is what's different.

Games that get as much attention from the mainstream press and public like Wii Sports come along once every few years. I wouldn't put Gears Of War in that categorey. Halo, yes, GoW, no.

If Gears of War was that big of a title, the 360 should have seen a massive boost from it sales wise and be doing better than just "OK" in its best market.
 

davepoobond

you can't put a price on sparks
soundwave05 said:
If Gears of War was that big of a title, the 360 should have seen a massive boost from it sales wise and be doing better than just "OK" in its best market.

halo 3 has yet to even prove that it will be a title that gives the 360 the massive boost you're talking about, on account its not even released yet.
 
davepoobond said:
i dont see how wii sports' sole purpose is any different than any other game's sole purpose....
Really? The pack-in, easy-to-play, marquee game promoting a new system to a wide audience, introducing players to an entirely new form of control?
 
davepoobond said:
halo 3 has yet to even prove that it will be a title that gives the 360 the massive boost you're talking about, on account its not even released yet.

I think the Halo 2 bump is a pretty clear indicator that Halo 3 will boost 360 sales significantly.
 

davepoobond

you can't put a price on sparks
JoshuaJSlone said:
Really? The pack-in, easy-to-play, marquee game promoting a new system to a wide audience, introducing players to an entirely new form of control?

that wasn't the sole purpose as defined by who i was responding to.


Rancid Mildew said:
I think the Halo 2 bump is a pretty clear indicator that Halo 3 will boost 360 sales significantly.


indicator =x= proven

it is not an absolute.
 

Odysseus

Banned
bmf said:
What was the XBOX priced at when Halo 2 came out?

one hundred forty nine united states dollars

and the bump for halo 2 was not all that significant. put in context, 2004's monthly sales of xbox had been well over 2003's all year long. november saw a ~200k boost over the previous november, a respectable increase but not over and above how the xbox had been selling the entire year, percentage wise.
 
If Halo 3 isn't a phenom when it comes out then it doesn't belong in "The Club" either.

There are blockbusters, but there's a level above blockbuster, which is basically what we're talking about ... games that become so popular that they cross over into mainstream pop culture.

I'd say there's about 20-25 of them in video game history total beginning with the original Pong ... Wii Sports is headed there, Gears of War is not. That's not a knock on Gears of War, but the types of games I'm talking about come around once every so often, not your every "well this is the big game for this fall!" type of thing. Those games come out every year, MS/Nintendo/Sony will always have that "this is our big game this year" every year, that's not such a big deal.

When you hve a game that starts to transcend traditional barriers placed on video games ... that's when you know you have a phenomenon, and that's what Wii Sports is exhibiting.
 

Odysseus

Banned
bmf said:
Halo 4 will probably sell a lot of 360s.

halo 3 has already sold a lot of 360s and will continue to sell them. it just won't sell a ton of them all at once in september like so many people want to believe. the console is 400 dollars, folks, it's not going to go on a tear without an adjustment to price.
 
Well this discussion took a nose-dive pretty fast.

I think it's safe to say that all 3 plattforms have some great games with mass-appeal coming out.

Seeing that this is a MC thread, I think the discussion should stick to Japan. Wii has SMG, SSBB and the Wii line which I think will do some good numbers. 360 has LO, TB. I think the first will do good numbers as well (for 360 at least). The big question is what PS3 has to offer for Japan this christmas. There's EoJ which could be a hit (if it's any good, word of mouth will be important) and that's pretty much it, right? There's Folks Souls and Hot Shots Golf coming this summer but I think only the latter will do considerable numbers.

So what's your take on the line-up for Japan for the 3 consoles?

jee said:
come on, more list wars!

also, lol @ hypocrites frowning on party games and then praising dumbed down fps games on consoles
So damn true. Slow movement and sticky aiming ftl. Casual FPS my a**.
 

D.Lo

Member
Sheesh, when did this place become
gamefaqsps3.jpg
 

loosus

Banned
:lol Holy crap. I bet soundwave has a blood clot in his brain by the time he's 18 if he continues this amount of unhealthy worship of Nintendo.
 
loosus said:
:lol Holy crap. I bet soundwave has a blood clot in his brain by the time he's 18 if he continues this amount of unhealthy worship of Nintendo.

LOL, you haven't been on this board very long have you?
 

Deku

Banned
It is fair to say Wii Sports is a fairly significant title of this generation and may infact be one of the first 'new' megahit titles (soon to be franchises) that define each console generation. A lot of NeoGAF commentators have been looking into the future for such hits to emerge, but it's increasingly clear that Wii Sports is a huge game for Nintendo. In Japan this isn't even a pack-in game and consumers have no trouble buying it.

All the list wars BS is really pointless and I'm not sure why its pertinent to compare Halo 3 to Wii Sports in a Media Create thread of all places.
 

JJConrad

Sucks at viral marketing
I don't think I've seen get this far off-topic ever. It's kinda interesting to watch how the discussion slips further and further away. I've wanted to chime in on a number of things, but those parts of the debate have long passed... who cares... here are my thoughts anyway:

1) Jimbo is crazy.

2) The big problem with list wars right now is that E3 is still over a month away. Things are going to change drastically.

3) We've seen how Nintendo's franchises have performed on a last place console. Now we get to see how they do on a first place console.

4) GAF is notorious for downplaying the sales potential of games based on their own personal interest. That's why games like Brain Age can sell millions yet be complained about when they're announced... it's also why something like Viva Pinata can be in every fan-list for a year yet go completely ignored on store shelves. We are forever confusing the games we are hyped for with the games that have real selling potential.

5) If you attribute all of the Xbox's sales growth in 2004 and 2005 to Halo 2, the game added about a million new consoles in the US.

6) I feel that GAF is getting further and further out-of-touch with the gaming industry and itself too. I use to be able to rely on finding any little gaming tidbit or announcement quickly on these boards. Now, if the information isn't good enough to celebrate over or bad enough to mock others about it doesn't get posted. I shouldn't have to leave NeoGAF EVER!!!

7) One thing I don't fully understand is that as bad as the PS3 is doing on the worldwide stage its selling at a close to even rate with the 360. So why are there so many PS3 FUD stories about developers leaving for the 360? That 5 million headstart isn't going to mean that much in 2-3 years. I know expectations have a lot to do with it, but neither are in a very desirable posistion right now.
 

donny2112

Member
PantherLotus said:
Ok. It has a chance to hit 500,000 units sold in Japan. Moral victory!

I honestly expect Square-Enix to port FFXIII to the 360, at least in the U.S. If they're smart, they'll port it in Japan, too. 360 may have next to zero install base in Japan, but if the consumer is going to buy a system just to play FFXIII and then sell it back, why not buy it on a system that's > 10,000 yen cheaper?

I just hope they release it at the same time as the PS3 version, or it won't mean much for the 360 in Japan.

Ironically, the 360 may just have more Japanese-styled games at that time, too, so maybe they wouldn't even sell it back. :lol
 
Phife Dawg said:
So what's your take on the line-up for Japan for the 3 consoles?
I don't know exactly their line-up, but honestly Wii with SBBB has already won for this winter holidays.

Of course i'm talking about home systems, if you add portables, DS + DQ9 will smash everything
 

Thraktor

Member
Wow, I get banned for two weeks, come back, and I'm confronted with this cluster**** of a thread. What we need here are some charts.

Ahh, this sounds like a challenge:

jimbo said:
Yeah except this isn't linear algebra.

Oh, but it is. I'm not going to go talking about XBox360 sales in this thread, as it's about Japanese numbers and in Japan the 360's less than irrelevant, but an oft-flawed argument on the part of Sony affectionados is their misuse of linear algebra in analysis of sales data, more specifically their use of the second derivative as an arguing point. Allow me to demonstrate:


Below is the actual chart of the Japanese userbases of the Wii and PS3. This is the chart that matters. If the streams cross in this chart, then the PS3 has actually overtaken Wii in terms of units sold. This has never happened, and it's never going to happen, Wii is too far ahead, and its lead is growing.

console_sales_20_05.png



The next chart is the rate of change of the first chart, or the first derivative. Most of you will know it as the weekly sales chart, and we like to discuss it here because it changes much more rapidly than the first chart and prolonged trends in it can indicate which way the first chart will grow. If the streams cross in this chart, the lead the Wii has over the PS3 will decrease. This, also, has never happened, and doesn't look likely to do so any time soon.

console_sales_20_05_derv1.png



The third chart I present to you is the rate of change of the second chart, or the second derivative of the actual console userbases. This chart is often quoted by those trying to scrape some sort of positive news for Sony out of the sales data, although you probably don't recognise it. If the streams cross in this chart, the rate at which Wii is widening the gap decreases slightly. This is what Sony fans are referring to when PS3's weekly sales go up (which hasn't happened for a while) and Wii's weekly sales go down and they say PS3 is "closing the gap". The "gap" they are referring to is in fact the one on the first derivative chart, not the real gap between the consoles' userbases. This has actually happened quite a few times, but that is more a result of Nintendo's irregular shipment patterns than anything else.

console_sales_20_05_derv2.png



Actually, looking at the above chart, it's not really that good for Sony fans, as Wii is still ahead about half of the time. They'll have to look much deeper into misuse of linear algerba to find the good-news chart they're looking for, and I think I might have found it. The following is the thirteenth derivative of the top chart, or the rate of change of the rate of change of the rate of change of the rate of change of the rate of change of the rate of change of the rate of change of the rate of change of the rate of change of the rate of change of the rate of change of the rate of change of the rate of change of the actual console userbases. If the streams cross in this chart, then nothing the **** much happens. And it seems like PS3 is the clear leader when you look at things this way, as it's ahead for 8 of the weeks, compared to only 5 for the Wii. Domination am total, obviously.

console_sales_20_05_derv13.png



But wait, Nintendo fans can misuse mathematics too! Below you'll see the first integral of the userbases, or the chart for which the userbases themselves represent the rate of change. Look at Wii go, it's powering exponentially ahead of the PS3.

console_sales_20_05_int1.png


On an ever-so-slightly serious note, though, the above chart may actually be of some use. Consider the hypothesis that, for every week that a developer sees the Wii with a 1 million unit lead on the PS3, he's going to lean a certain amount in the direction of developing for Wii. And, if he were to be looking at one week with the Wii ahead by 10 million, that would have the same effect on his decision as ten weeks where the Wii is ahead by 1 million. Hence, the above graph can be said to portray mindshare in the eyes of developers, with each unit being equivalent to a console having an install base of one for one week. The height of each point on the graph indicates how far developers and publishers have leaned towards that console thus far. Therefore, if the streams cross in the above chart, PS3 would have not only outsold Wii, but would have cancelled out all the negative mindshare they had received by being trounced so much by the Wii up to this point. There is no hope at all of this ever happening. To put it in perspective, PS3 would need to outsell Wii by 133,587 every week for it to catch up by the end of the year on the above graph.
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
Thraktor, it's great that you've taken first year university math, but let's get real. I did a Fourrier transform on the console sales, which tells us the representation of the console sales in the frequency-time domain.

And I think the results were very telling:

ps3-grill.jpg
 

Kenka

Member
PS3 has dark matter inside of it. All your algebra-analysis-quanticphysics-crap are useless. PS3 will lead this world and the following one with one milliard unit on each planet of the solar system. Quote me on that.
 
Odysseus said:
it just won't sell a ton of them all at once in september like so many people want to believe.
I mean, it depends on your definition of "a ton." I'm sure there are plenty of fence-sitters who will suddenly consider $400 to be a huge bargain once Halo 3 is out. Their holiday sales could, say, double between then and Christmas. But it's not like they're going to start doing a million units a month or anything.

Then again, if that didn't happen this year anyway, regardless of software, it wouldn't look very good for them.

Also, amazing that Xbox 360 seems to be heading for a third holiday season at the same price. Is that unprecedented? If it does happen, we can all thank Sony.
 

Threi

notag
ugh thanks for the memories of my old math class =/...anyways this info would be better spent somewhere else...say ps3forums?


make it happen gaf.
 

milanbaros

Member?
Wii LTD > PS3 LTD = PS3 ****ed = a

Wii weekly sales > PS3 weekly sales + a = PS3 ****ed * 2

(Wii weekly sales / PS3 weekly sales) > (Wii LTD / PS3 LTD) = PS3 am ****ed total.

I think all 3 scenarios have been happening lately. Its just getting worse for Sony every week.
 

Deku

Banned
Mr. Pachunga Chung said:
ugh thanks for the memories of my old math class =/...anyways this info would be better spent somewhere else...say ps3forums?


make it happen gaf.

ps3forums very clearly state the purpose of their delusion. It's also a fan support community which I'm all in favor of.

That said, those charts would have a hard time gaining traction with a great many in the NeoGAF mob as it is, so even if we wanted to use it on say, ps3forums, it would be an impossible task.
 

Evlar

Banned
I DEMAND a first integral chart in every future sales thread. It must compare Wii, PS3, posts in MC threads, and pirates.
 

nli10

Member
Thraktor said:
The third chart I present to you is the rate of change of the second chart, or the second derivative of the actual console userbases. This chart is often quoted by those trying to scrape some sort of positive news for Sony out of the sales data, although you probably don't recognise it. If the streams cross in this chart, the rate at which Wii is widening the gap decreases slightly. This is what Sony fans are referring to when PS3's weekly sales go up (which hasn't happened for a while) and Wii's weekly sales go down and they say PS3 is "closing the gap". The "gap" they are referring to is in fact the one on the first derivative chart, not the real gap between the consoles' userbases. This has actually happened quite a few times, but that is more a result of Nintendo's irregular shipment patterns than anything else.

console_sales_20_05_derv2.png

While (as you point out) this graph is fairly useless in isolation it can be mapped back to the overall sales of all systems for a given week to see whether consoles are outperforming the market expectations. This week for instance when all the systems without major releases dropped the Wii stayed at the same rough number. More than likely vary close to the number of units Nintendo shipped.

Seeing as Sony & M$ are releasing next to nothing for a good month or so, and Nintendo are short on both of their systems it's barely worth making the graphs at the moment. :D
 

Branduil

Member
Thraktor said:
Wow, I get banned for two weeks, come back, and I'm confronted with this cluster**** of a thread. What we need here are some charts.

Ahh, this sounds like a challenge:



Oh, but it is. I'm not going to go talking about XBox360 sales in this thread, as it's about Japanese numbers and in Japan the 360's less than irrelevant, but an oft-flawed argument on the part of Sony affectionados is their misuse of linear algebra in analysis of sales data, more specifically their use of the second derivative as an arguing point. Allow me to demonstrate:


Below is the actual chart of the Japanese userbases of the Wii and PS3. This is the chart that matters. If the streams cross in this chart, then the PS3 has actually overtaken Wii in terms of units sold. This has never happened, and it's never going to happen, Wii is too far ahead, and its lead is growing.

console_sales_20_05.png



The next chart is the rate of change of the first chart, or the first derivative. Most of you will know it as the weekly sales chart, and we like to discuss it here because it changes much more rapidly than the first chart and prolonged trends in it can indicate which way the first chart will grow. If the streams cross in this chart, the lead the Wii has over the PS3 will decrease. This, also, has never happened, and doesn't look likely to do so any time soon.

console_sales_20_05_derv1.png



The third chart I present to you is the rate of change of the second chart, or the second derivative of the actual console userbases. This chart is often quoted by those trying to scrape some sort of positive news for Sony out of the sales data, although you probably don't recognise it. If the streams cross in this chart, the rate at which Wii is widening the gap decreases slightly. This is what Sony fans are referring to when PS3's weekly sales go up (which hasn't happened for a while) and Wii's weekly sales go down and they say PS3 is "closing the gap". The "gap" they are referring to is in fact the one on the first derivative chart, not the real gap between the consoles' userbases. This has actually happened quite a few times, but that is more a result of Nintendo's irregular shipment patterns than anything else.

console_sales_20_05_derv2.png



Actually, looking at the above chart, it's not really that good for Sony fans, as Wii is still ahead about half of the time. They'll have to look much deeper into misuse of linear algerba to find the good-news chart they're looking for, and I think I might have found it. The following is the thirteenth derivative of the top chart, or the rate of change of the rate of change of the rate of change of the rate of change of the rate of change of the rate of change of the rate of change of the rate of change of the rate of change of the rate of change of the rate of change of the rate of change of the rate of change of the actual console userbases. If the streams cross in this chart, then nothing the **** much happens. And it seems like PS3 is the clear leader when you look at things this way, as it's ahead for 8 of the weeks, compared to only 5 for the Wii. Domination am total, obviously.

console_sales_20_05_derv13.png



But wait, Nintendo fans can misuse mathematics too! Below you'll see the first integral of the userbases, or the chart for which the userbases themselves represent the rate of change. Look at Wii go, it's powering exponentially ahead of the PS3.

console_sales_20_05_int1.png


On an ever-so-slightly serious note, though, the above chart may actually be of some use. Consider the hypothesis that, for every week that a developer sees the Wii with a 1 million unit lead on the PS3, he's going to lean a certain amount in the direction of developing for Wii. And, if he were to be looking at one week with the Wii ahead by 10 million, that would have the same effect on his decision as ten weeks where the Wii is ahead by 1 million. Hence, the above graph can be said to portray mindshare in the eyes of developers, with each unit being equivalent to a console having an install base of one for one week. The height of each point on the graph indicates how far developers and publishers have leaned towards that console thus far. Therefore, if the streams cross in the above chart, PS3 would have not only outsold Wii, but would have cancelled out all the negative mindshare they had received by being trounced so much by the Wii up to this point. There is no hope at all of this ever happening. To put it in perspective, PS3 would need to outsell Wii by 133,587 every week for it to catch up by the end of the year on the above graph.

:lol
 
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