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Media Create Sales 5/7 - 5/13, PS3 < 10k
- Thread starter Cheesemeister
- Start date
Eteric Rice
Member
uccello said:
Eh, problem with that theory is that most of the public is ignorant to graphics and HD. As shown with the PS2 and other consoles (even handhelds), they really don't care. If the game looks cool and fun they'll buy it.
test_account
XP-39C²
*Warning! Long post ahead! 
*
There are so much more left to be done in games besides pushing polygons and high resolution textures. The physics, movements, lighting and number of things that goes on at the same time can still be improved alot. Check out the tech demo on Euphoria Engine that i.e. GTA 4 uses. No other consoles than PS3 and 360 can handle this in addition to all the gfx etc.
I havnt played Gears of War so i cant state my opinion about it, but if the gameplay is boring i hardly doubt the main reason for this is because of the controller. I'd say its whats going on in the game and the objectives that makes it fun or not.
When it comes to gfx, it actually does affect the gameplay quite a bit. Take Zelda:TP for example. Would this game be as entertaining if it looked completely different? Or is it the lighting and atmosphere that makes the game so great? Or would it still be just as fun if it was in CGA mode (4 colors only)? The gfx and gameplay actually goes very often hand in hand.
Until the DS and Wii came out, its pretty much been the so-called standard handcontroller thats been used for gaming. Do you feel that you suddently need a touch screen or a waggle controller to enjoy playing? If you (generaly speaking, not directed to you personally) just entered the gaming work around DS and Wii times i can understand it, but if you have been playing games for over 20 years like myself you know you can still have great gameplay with the standard controller I prefer the old games much more than the new ones at any day.
Dont know about forcing since its totaly optional to buy, but all system have their share of crappy games, they are no different in that area. Wii games might be alittle bit cheaper than PS3/360 games, but its not like $10 is "OMG" alot of money (unless you're on an extremely tight budget).
Right now the Wii is a rather new experience, but soon it will be just as common as the standard controller since you get used to it. Think about the first time you played Wii, were you amazed over how cool it was? Think ahead, in about 1 year, do you think you will get that exact same feeling on the games that gets released there? Gfx is improved by the console's lifetime, but how much can you improve the use of the Wii controller? Have we seen the most of what it can offer (as in movement thats used) or is there still more to come?
*skinnyrattler said:
There are so much more left to be done in games besides pushing polygons and high resolution textures. The physics, movements, lighting and number of things that goes on at the same time can still be improved alot. Check out the tech demo on Euphoria Engine that i.e. GTA 4 uses. No other consoles than PS3 and 360 can handle this in addition to all the gfx etc.
skinnyrattler said:
I havnt played Gears of War so i cant state my opinion about it, but if the gameplay is boring i hardly doubt the main reason for this is because of the controller. I'd say its whats going on in the game and the objectives that makes it fun or not.
When it comes to gfx, it actually does affect the gameplay quite a bit. Take Zelda:TP for example. Would this game be as entertaining if it looked completely different? Or is it the lighting and atmosphere that makes the game so great? Or would it still be just as fun if it was in CGA mode (4 colors only)? The gfx and gameplay actually goes very often hand in hand.
Until the DS and Wii came out, its pretty much been the so-called standard handcontroller thats been used for gaming. Do you feel that you suddently need a touch screen or a waggle controller to enjoy playing? If you (generaly speaking, not directed to you personally) just entered the gaming work around DS and Wii times i can understand it, but if you have been playing games for over 20 years like myself you know you can still have great gameplay with the standard controller
I prefer the old games much more than the new ones at any day.skinnyrattler said:
Dont know about forcing since its totaly optional to buy, but all system have their share of crappy games, they are no different in that area. Wii games might be alittle bit cheaper than PS3/360 games, but its not like $10 is "OMG" alot of money (unless you're on an extremely tight budget).
Right now the Wii is a rather new experience, but soon it will be just as common as the standard controller since you get used to it. Think about the first time you played Wii, were you amazed over how cool it was? Think ahead, in about 1 year, do you think you will get that exact same feeling on the games that gets released there? Gfx is improved by the console's lifetime, but how much can you improve the use of the Wii controller? Have we seen the most of what it can offer (as in movement thats used) or is there still more to come?
test_account said:
Are you saying that Nintendo or third-parties are not going to develop new innovative ways to use the wiimote? I think this is wrong, because these developers are just getting to grips with the control method, once Nintendo itself masters the wiimote... the sky's the limit.
I just want a game that lets me do what I want and that is what I was expecting from "next-gen". How can there be immersive gameplay when I can't jump over a rail when I want to or climb a fence...The little things. Let me go to that place that I see and want to check out. Let me climb a tree or something. Let me take a piss if I want to, in game.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
Hey guys. For whatever reason I was getting "Failure to Connect to Server" errors for GAF for the last 30+ hours, so this is much later than normal.
Wii comparisons: At 24 weeks, Wii is where GCN was at 104.6 weeks (September 10, 2003), where DS was at 26.7 weeks (June 2, 2005), where PS2 was at 22.8 weeks (August 4, 2000), and where PSP was at 54.1 weeks (December 18, 2005).
PS3 comparisons: At 27 weeks, PS3 is where PS2 was at 3.2 weeks (March 20, 2000), where PSP was at 11.0 weeks (February 20, 2005), where GCN was at 15.7 weeks (December 27, 2001), and where Wii was at 4.6 weeks (December 28, 2006).
PS3 vs Wii: Weekly shares are 14.4 / 85.6. PS3's best in a month. Total shares are now 26.7 / 73.3. If Wii stops selling and PS3 continues at this week's rate, it catches up in 174.3 weeks (September 14, 2010).
PS2 vs DS: At this week's rates, PS2 and DS meet in 22.4 weeks (October 16, 2007) at 20.72 million apiece.
Nintendo passes 4.5 million hardware units for the year at 19 weeks. Last year it was week 29. 2005, week 50 it looks like. 2004 and 2003, week 52. However, it looks like Nintendo's 2003 didn't quite reach as high as their 2007 total did this week.
Wii comparisons: At 24 weeks, Wii is where GCN was at 104.6 weeks (September 10, 2003), where DS was at 26.7 weeks (June 2, 2005), where PS2 was at 22.8 weeks (August 4, 2000), and where PSP was at 54.1 weeks (December 18, 2005).
PS3 comparisons: At 27 weeks, PS3 is where PS2 was at 3.2 weeks (March 20, 2000), where PSP was at 11.0 weeks (February 20, 2005), where GCN was at 15.7 weeks (December 27, 2001), and where Wii was at 4.6 weeks (December 28, 2006).
PS3 vs Wii: Weekly shares are 14.4 / 85.6. PS3's best in a month. Total shares are now 26.7 / 73.3. If Wii stops selling and PS3 continues at this week's rate, it catches up in 174.3 weeks (September 14, 2010).
PS2 vs DS: At this week's rates, PS2 and DS meet in 22.4 weeks (October 16, 2007) at 20.72 million apiece.
Nintendo passes 4.5 million hardware units for the year at 19 weeks. Last year it was week 29. 2005, week 50 it looks like. 2004 and 2003, week 52. However, it looks like Nintendo's 2003 didn't quite reach as high as their 2007 total did this week.
uccello said:
"It's a lot easier to sell a game with different gameplay than one with prettier graphics. That's why, no matter how much power we're going to pay for, new ideas will always come first before graphics."
Second line is correct.
new ideas always attract new people, and reinvigorate the jaded, and those who are bored.
test_account
XP-39C²
thaivo said:
No, i'm not saying anything, im asking questions. I ask: will we see new ways to use the controllers (as in movement) in the future that we havnt seen today and will you be amazed by them? Or is the amazed factor over? Of course developers will find new ways to use the controller in-game, like light saber swings in Star Wars etc. but how much fun will it be in the long run? Will it give the same first feeling you had when you tried Wii or will you already be used to the Wii controller? I know people here dont have a key answer to these questions, but the answers can be speculation and how people think it would be.
M3d10n said:
Yep, just to get my point out that gfx actually does play a big part in gameplay because many people that say that gfx doesnt matter at all.
Insane Metal
Member
WOAH PS3
Dragona Akehi
Retired
Terrell said:
You need to take a time travel trip to 1996/97 to understand fully.
test_account
XP-39C²
Terrell said:
GC got thron away from the stores when i.e. RE4 was released. Everything is possible. Belive!
No, it didn't.test_account said:GC got thron away from the stores when i.e. RE4 was released. Everything is possible. Belive!
It totally didn't.
Grief takes a while to set in
Oh, I remember those times... I also remember buying a PlayStation because Nintendo couldn't get their act together on the N64 release date, so I bet on the right horse that time, no worries. I couldn't understand it then, either, anyone could have told you that Nintendo ****ed up big-time. I ended up owning one anyways because the analog stick was a move forward in 3D gaming that I couldn't pass up at the time, but it was a ****-up nonetheless.Dragona Akehi said:
I guess the problem isn't that people are doing this, but moreso that people are doing this in spite of the fact that we know how far it gets us already. We've seen this before, folks, it didn't work then either, so let's just move along.
soundwave05
Member
Dragona Akehi said:
To be fair to the N64, the N64 was selling better than the PS3 is right now through 1996 and the earlier poritions of 1997.
Dragona Akehi
Retired
soundwave05 said:
The N64 was also less than the PSX at this point in time. That's the only reason why.
Of course the 64 had Mario...
But by now in japan, the 64 was doing PS3 numbers or worse.
Gekkonidae
Member
Well, the N64 LTD > GC LTD iirc. So I think the best comparison for PS3 will be the GC unless it turns things around.
What's far more remarkable is the swiftness of the turnaround. Super Nintendo was a close first, while N64 was a somewhat-distant second. At the time the N64 could be spoken of as a decent competitor to the PSX (world-wide, Japan had a bit wider margin, of course.)
This gen, the PS2 was in first by a landslide, and the PS3 is currently a distant last (360 doesn't really count in Japan ;p). A shift in power of this magnitude hasn't occured in the gaming landscape since the second-third generation Atari to Nintendo shift, and that took a massive crash to arrive at.
What's far more remarkable is the swiftness of the turnaround. Super Nintendo was a close first, while N64 was a somewhat-distant second. At the time the N64 could be spoken of as a decent competitor to the PSX (world-wide, Japan had a bit wider margin, of course.)
This gen, the PS2 was in first by a landslide, and the PS3 is currently a distant last (360 doesn't really count in Japan ;p). A shift in power of this magnitude hasn't occured in the gaming landscape since the second-third generation Atari to Nintendo shift, and that took a massive crash to arrive at.
test_account said:
I don't know about getting the same feeling, but a new way to use the wiimote in a game would still bring about a feeling of something novel. It doesn't have to be the same response, but I doubt that limits of the ways the wiimote can be used is already taxed, or even completely conceived of by developers.
What I've experienced thus far has not worn off. I'm still rather elated when I can move the wiimote and browse webpages, rather than the nub of my psp... The first time I played Warioware was very different from the first time I played WiiSports, and the first time I played Rayman... and certainly although more traditional, REUC will be different and new to me as well.
test_account
XP-39C²
Saitou said:
RE4 did boost GC sales and many stores sold out their GC when RE4 was released yes. Maybe not sold out everywhere, but it totally bosted the GC sale. Up to you if you want to belive it or not
Mr. Pachunga Chung said:
Thats not what i'm saying. I say that gfx very often plays a part in how good the game feels. It was directed to the comment that PS3/360 doesnt add anything new to the gameplay (and by the way, why do so many forget about the Sixaxis?
)test_account
XP-39C²
thaivo said:
I havnt played Wii that much, thats why i ask
Thinking of how well DS is doing and developers find new ways to use the touchscreen, maybe they will manage to do the exact same thing with the Wii controller too.JoshuaJSlone
Member
PS3 was originally ahead, but thanks to early supply problems PS3's first holiday couldn't match up to GCN's first holiday bump. At PS3's 9th week, it was where GCN was at 13.0 weeks. Since the GCN numbers hit December at that point, though, things slowed down tremendously. PS3 took five weeks to get through GCN's 14th week, six weeks to get through GCN's 15th week, and so far has spent eight weeks in GCN's 16th week with several more to go.Terrell said:
Once PS3 can get past GCN's December, though, the comparison will start to look a lot better. GCN's early 2002 is very much like PS3's 2007. A slide down to 10K and less, only interrupted by middling bumps (Resident Evil then, Gundam Musou now).
However... looking at GCN vs PS3's totals through 52 weeks, it seems PS3 still has a ways to go to get through GCN's holiday bump. ~200K, which at current rates could be dozens of weeks.
Oops. Wii on the brain. (Fixed)Raist said:ICWATUDIDTHAR !
I guess you meant PS3, not Wii
test_account said:
What i gathered was that PS3/360 games have done nothing to improve gameplay...and for systems that expensive that is not great value. The only fault of the systems are that they are too expensive, but the majority of his complaint was towards the stigma that game developers have nowadays, that a game is as good as the technical achievements and number of pixels used.
Same as how people say that Nintendo is causing devs to just shoehorn traditional controls to sell games, other people are saying Sony/MS are causing devs to add more pixels and bloom and HDR and all that stuff to their existing games to sell.
Basically we should stop fighting with each other...and bring the fight to lazy devs...they are what is truly killing the industry right now. Not waggle, not HD, but devs that don't try to utilize either effectively.
test_account said:I havnt played Wii that much, thats why i ask
I see. I thought you had a Wii.
The DS has really surprised me because I've had PDA's before, and none of the software companies were able to use the touch screens in the inventive ways that game makers have. I think the Wii faces the same, if not much higher, learning curve. I mean WiiSports, a rather simple game upon its face is incredibly complex to make... as they were developing the tools while they were developing the software. However, now that some of that pioneering has been done, it will allow future developers to be even more creative. That's my thought anyways.test_account
XP-39C²
Mr. Pachunga Chung said:
Its all about personal opinions so its not a key answer to it, but if you mean that better physics, more effects (like rain/dust clouds/smoke etc. etc.), better enviorment gfx, better lighting and better sound doesnt add anything to the gameplay (meaning how fun/good feeling you get when playing) the only think i can do is to respect your opinion. But what about the Sixaxis?
I dont look at this as fighting, just alittle healtyh discussion
Atleast no one is comming with personal attacks or comments because of a different opinion.thaivo said:I see. I thought you had a Wii.
Ye, im sure they will make something really cool in the time to come
I'm just wondering how long they will be able to keep it up. They have done a superb job with the DS tho, so we'll see how it goes with the Wii.test_account said:Its all about personal opinions so its not a key answer to it, but if you mean that better physics, more effects (like rain/dust clouds/smoke etc. etc.), better enviorment gfx, better lighting and better sound doesnt add anything to the gameplay (meaning how good feeling you get when playing) the only think i can do is to respect your opinion. But what about the Sixaxis?
I dont look at this as fighting, just alittle healtyh discussion
Most of those effects you listed (aside from lighting) doesn't hold any weight if bogged down with a crappy, overused artstyle/palette. And usually the "good feeling" i get isn't from fancy special effects, but rather from little pieces of attention to detail. "Teh shiny rocks" doesn't cut it for me at all. I was a PC gamer all of last gen, and i feel that the Wii can produce games with good enough ambiance to send chills down my spine (eg. Metroid Prime, which i am playing RIGHT now).
As for the SixAxis, Sony put little thought into it, and i expect that devs will probably put little thought into it as well, seeing as PS3 and 360 are seen as identical systems by most people.
All 3 systems are capable...its just the games that is a "wait and see" thing.
test_account
XP-39C²
Mr. Pachunga Chung said:
I recently played through God of War 2. Eventho its probly the best looking PS2 game it doesnt match Gears of War gfx (naturally) and its one of my favorite games for PS2. The story, the scale, movement etc. is what makes it so great, probly the same feeling just like you explain Metroid Prime for Gamecube. So im not saying superb gfx is a must for games, but i certaintly look at great gfx and physics as a big bonus. And of course, these things alone isnt enough to make great gameplay. The story, what you're doing in the game etc. must also click. You must look at the total picture.
Bad gfx can also ruin a game that has big potentional. So as said, you must look at the complete picture. Not just enough to look at the gfx and say "hey, great gameplay". It must be experienced
Eteric Rice
Member
test_account said:I recently played through God of War 2. Eventho its probly the best looking PS2 game it doesnt match Gears of War gfx (naturally) and its one of my favorite games for PS2. The story, the scale, movement etc. is what makes it so great, probly the same feeling just like you explain Metroid Prime for Gamecube. So im not saying superb gfx is a must for games, but i certaintly look at great gfx and physics as a big bonus. And of course, these things alone isnt enough to make great gameplay. The story, what you're doing in the game etc. must also click. You must look at the total picture.
Bad gfx can also ruin a game that has big potentional. So as said, you must look at the complete picture. Not just enough to look at the gfx and say "hey, great gameplay". It must be experienced
Thing is, I think we're at the point where most graphics should be acceptable. Most X-Box games were acceptable, and still are.
Hell, I'm playing Kingdom Hearts 2, and I think it looks really great. I think it will continue to look great so long as I use an SDTV, really. Though, no amount of AA, SD/HD can fix what Nomura has done to Setzer.
RiskyChris
Banned
Does anyone know how many copies of Trauma Center Wii has been sold LTD by Atlus? Breakdown by region would be nice but not necessary.
I can't find a nice
source for finding this kind of information -- does anyone have anything to help?
I can't find a nice
reliable
Eteric Rice
Member
RiskyChris said:
I honestly don't know, but I remember hearing that it was Atlus's most successfull game ever or something.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
uccello said:
Just wanted to take issue with this post, and mostly because I'm a marketing guy. That's what my degree was in (communications) and that is somewhere in line with what I want in a career as I tend to focus on that aspect in any industry.
Credentials aside, and completely ignoring the whole blue-ocean theory bullshit, your statement is actually somewhat misleading if not completely false. You see...it's easy to sell a product: this is what it is, this is what it does, this is how much it costs, and this is how you'll benefit.
But that's not what sells GREAT products. That's not what sells iPods, and American Eagle t-shirts, or Pepsi, or Lexus vehicles. Moreover, that's not what is selling the DS and now, the Wii. The one thing that all of these products (and their marketing department) focus on is how they make you FEEL. Do you feel more alive when you have this product? More connected with society, part of the in-crowd? Does it make your wife feel Safer? Does this give you an elite status among your peers?
When you use this product...are you having FUN?
Your assertion is an easy one to fall for, and so far, 2 out of 3 console manufactures have fallen for the same thing. Look at their public relations and their marketing. Sony more or less said THIS SHIT IS SO HOT YOUR EYES WILL ****ING BLEED. Microsoft is definitely hitting a better note with their community appeal, but there are definitely overtones of WE'RE HD. WE'RE NEXT GEN. BLAH BLAH. But none of that shit makes anybody other than very hardcore gamers get all horny inside. I'm not talking blue ocean bullshit--I'm saying that it doesn't even appeal to casual gamers.
Look at their competition. The Wii and DS are technologically inferior. No questions. Anybody arguing differently is trying to convince themselves. So how on earth are they selling something if it's always GRAPHICS BEFORE GAMEPLAY? Simple--they're selling a feeling. They're selling the emotional equivalent of crack rocks, and everybody wants it. Look at their marketing. GIANT MOVING EYE BLEEDINGLY BEAUTIFUL SCREENS OF GIANT BEAUTIFUL SPACESHIPS AND EXPLOSIONS? ....no. It's a couple dudes on a couch. Tiger feeling right at home while playing his game. Some chick giggling while the tunes of SMB are heard in the background. All of them having fun.
And correct me if I'm wrong, but the company selling fun is embarrassing the competition in every territory. The company focused on MORE, FASTER, BETTER, STRONGER, LONGER, HUGE, MASSIVE, AWESOME GRAPHICS...has fallen on its face and could potentially damage their parent company for a long, long time to come.
So get that mess out of your head. It sounds good, but it's wrong.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
And of course, all the arguing and pleading and debate isn't going to change the reality of the situation either. The Wii won. While that doesn't take away the great games on the other two systems and the great games that are to follow, it does mean with a high degree of certainty that it will be getting the lion's share of support.
So instead of raging against the machine, why not embrace reality and try to look forward to what's coming? PS3/360 fans aren't the first bunch of fans that have had to deal with being second place or worse. Heck, I'm a Sega fan. At least be glad Sony is still around, not having its corpse paraded around by a pachinko company.
So instead of raging against the machine, why not embrace reality and try to look forward to what's coming? PS3/360 fans aren't the first bunch of fans that have had to deal with being second place or worse. Heck, I'm a Sega fan. At least be glad Sony is still around, not having its corpse paraded around by a pachinko company.
Marketing can only take a product so far. Actually Nintendo's campaign has very little to do about feel, it's about what the DS is what it does (games). Wii is the same. The DS has a lot of inherent strengths in the way its designed that makes it appealing to a lot of people. I was at 300 and then Spider-Man 3 midnight showings and everywhere you look you see people with a DS and they're all playing something on it. I don't think it makes them feel better, but it's a very social thing to take out your DS and watch ten other people with their own as well.
Pictochat suddenly becomes not so useless now.
Pictochat suddenly becomes not so useless now.
test_account
XP-39C²
Segata Sanshiro said:
I think its a bit early to say that the Wii has won, but if that will be the reality in the future i agree to what you say, all system will still get great games even if they are selling most or fewest consoles for the 3. Also good that Sony is around indeed, more competition is good for the consumers.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
Deku said:
Marketing isn't everything--it won't turn shit into gold, that's certain. But it can take a great product and make it a phenomenon. There are plenty of great products that have little-to-no proper marketing and suffer because of it.
And actually responding to your post, that moment you're describing, the one where everybody is playing their DS's at the same time...that's a feeling. That feeling, as perverse as it sounds, is being part of the in-crowd. Everybody has one so everybody else wants one.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
test_account said:
So just how big of a lead will the Wii need to win? It's a 1.5 mill now. Selling anywhere from 3-1 to 8-1 to its most serious competition for its entire life. I used to say that Sony had 'till next April...but dude. C'mon.
It's over.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
I should note that I'm specifically referring to Japan, though it's looking very likely in the other regions as well. But in Japan, it's finished. FFXIII is not going to be enough to catch up to the Wii, even if the entire fanbase both has not picked up a PS3 yet and rushes out to buy one for FFXIII.test_account said:
test_account
XP-39C²
PantherLotus said:
It needs.. 50 million!
Seriously tho, it sure looks like there is no hope for PS3 to be #1 in Japan, but stranger things have happend. In 2-3 years, who knows.RiskyChris
Banned
Segata Sanshiro said:
I'm not ready to call US for Wii yet (it's possible the momentum of Halo 3/GTA4/price drop will trigger the proper exponential growth of 360's rise to heaven), but as a worldwide market I'm ready to say Wii has won.