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[Terrell]

I'm not saying it will be less expensive than FFXII to make (where did I say that?). I'm saying it is not "overly complex". In the sense that the way they make the game is extremely straightforward, nothing really new, hence why I compared it to games that are much more complex to make (without naming them, there are plenty).

The White Engine would have been used to make various other games, hence it would have been a long-term investment. I'm not sure how flexible it is at the moment. If it is flexible enough they could use it for their Wii, PS3, and 360 games. If it was made with the PS3 in mind then they are pretty much stuck, which would explain the recent acquisition of the Unreal license (which makes me think the White Engine might be extremely PS3-specific, hence it was less costly to get Unreal than make the necessary adjustment to make multiplatform games possible with their own engine).

Regardless, my comment was just on FFXIII not being, as you said, overly-complex. It is much less complex to make than a whole lot of games other companies are making, some of which are likely to be complete failures as far as profitability will go anyway.

Drawing an HD texture does not equal the same labor as drawing a non-HD texture in the slightest, seeing the trailers seems to indicate they have physics like crazy going on (heck, it looks like they're adding physics to Lightning's HAIR, for crying out loud) and despite what some may think, crafting an engine doesn't make designing elaborate 3D worlds and textures for HD any less difficult, it just saves some time that can be better used trying to craft these intricate models.

I'm sorry, but if anyone's thinking, after viewing screenshot after screenshot and seeing what's going on with this game, that it's the same labor and level of complexity, they're kidding themselves, and based on the things we've seen, it's several degrees beyond FFXII, so why wouldn't the complexity of development increase at the same rate?

 

[Vinnk]

If they really are producing games with enough content to justify the Cell and Blu-ray, I can't see how they are not going to be exponentially more expensive to make. As the process gets fine tuned, of course they will be cheaper, but with this first batch of games, if they only cost the same as a PS2 game to make, they probably arn't very good.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Play Crackdown. Honestly, it's one of the best examples of what the 360/PS3 have to offer to opening up gameplay. It's hard to go back to other 'free roam' games because they're insanely limited in scope in comparison. It's not just the draw distance (which is insane), it's just the sheer amount of scaleable real estate, with dozens of cars and citizens everywhere (and not disappearing when you simply leave the area for half a minute), explosions and bullets flying everywhere, with Havok physics running the whole show.

See a mountain? You can climb it. See a door? You can probably knock it down. See a river? You can swim across it. See a ledge? You can grab it.

It's pure sandbox and it couldn't be done on the Xbox/PS2/GCN or the Wii.

Ehh, I dunno. Other than perhaps detailed physics on everything, it doesn't sound like something that would be out of the realm of PS2 through Wii if developers weren't so stuck on detail of individual objects. It's not like PS2 has some internal flaw that necessitated X draw distance, only having Y characters on screen at once, or only letting you interact with Z items; these are design decisions.

 

[RiskyChris]

Ehh, I dunno. Other than perhaps detailed physics on everything, it doesn't sound like something that would be out of the realm of PS2 through Wii if developers weren't so stuck on detail of individual objects. It's not like PS2 has some internal flaw that necessitated X draw distance, only having Y characters on screen at once, or only letting you interact with Z items; these are design decisions.

GTA3 was too clunky on the PS2's hardware. I'm absolutely in the contingent that says sandbox gameplay needed more horsepower. Crackdown shows that we've hit a point where I think a great sandbox game can be made.

 

[jepense]

To contribute to the Ouendan discussion a few pages back:

Ouendan 2 (DS) - 35k

I happened to be in Nagoya last weekend (on business - lucky me) and ended up doing something similar to Vinnk's reports (which I appreciate quite a bit). I don't really know the city, so I visited five random shops I encountered and looked for Ouendan. It turned out to be sold out in three places out of these five (this was on Saturday). So indeed, the initial shipment doesn't seem to have been very big.

In one shop I overheard two girls asking for the Wii, and when the clerk told that they have it in stock, the girls went all giddy as if it was a big miracle that they managed to find the thing. It was pretty evident that Wii is still supply constrained.

That's all, you can now resume FF discussion.

 

[Moor-Angol]

Reading about 2 girls asking for a Wii makes me thinking...

it happened the same with DS when Nintendogs arrived on the shelves...

 

[Haunted]

love hotels.

the pimp hand is back.

 

[Magicpaint]

I bought Skyblazer. It's awesome.

I loved that game!

 

[tebiro boy]

Yes, obviously, but they didn't release VII vs VIII alone, they release VII International. You don't get to discount Playstation Best Price / International / Directors Cuts when you're talking about game sales.

When you're talking about the strength of a brand (as we were), it distorts comparisons. According to that chart FFX sold over 3m, but by including the International release it gives the impression that it sold better than FFIX (when actually the original sold 2.6m - 200k less than FFIX). How many of those 400k people who bought Int'l also owned the original? I'd bet 90% of them. So all it does is distort FF's true popularity.

BTW, it's not a budget rerelease, so don't equate it to 'Best Price', as that's completely different. It gets sold at pretty much full price, on the premise that it has a load of new stuff that makes it worth buying again.

No doubt FFXII Int'l will sell another few 100k. But that doesn't change the fact that it was the weakest-selling FF of recent times.

 

[Scalemail Ted]

How does every MC thread eventually end up discussing FF?

 

[Pachael]

How does every MC thread eventually end up discussing FF?

Well, VF5 didn't do much on the charts.

 

[Scalemail Ted]

Well, VF5 didn't do much on the charts.

Yeah, I bet Sega is sad about that... but you know... serves them right... Charolettes web for DS? WTF???? How is that a suprise title for E3? Screw them! I waited to hear them announce that. well, Who laughs now.. huh Sega! Whose laughing now. Mwa HAHAHAHAHA!

 

[jarrod]

I'd think SSBB has the better chance, actually. It's a much easier game to pick up and play, plus because it has multiplayer, it's the type of game that people play over a friend's, then wants to buy themselves. It was the same for SSBM -- not to mention Halo -- last gen.

Brawl might be more front-loaded actually, but it's not going to outsell Galaxy. It's appeal just isn't as mainstream, it's aimed more at core players and Nintendoholics.

 

[KINGMOKU]

Brawl might be more front-loaded actually, but it's not going to outsell Galaxy. It's appeal just isn't as mainstream, it's aimed more at core players and Nintendoholics.

I'll take that bet in any territory.

 

[jimbo]

So what's everyone's take on Forza 2 for the 360 in Japan. It comes out this thursday. Will it bomb or do decent for a 360 game? Will it cause any sort of spike in hardware sales?

 

[Pureauthor]

So what's everyone's take on Forza 2 for the 360 in Japan. It comes out this thursday. Will it bomb or do decent for a 360 game? Will it cause any sort of spike in hardware sales?

The issue's academic at this point, isn't it? >_>

 

[Leonsito]

So what's everyone's take on Forza 2 for the 360 in Japan. It comes out this thursday. Will it bomb or do decent for a 360 game? Will it cause any sort of spike in hardware sales?

Xbox360 HW > PS3 HW

 

[QVT]

Xbox360 HW > PS3 HW

Not this week, but if trends keep down for the PS3, when Trusty Bell and the Best Price version of Tenchu come out the same week its not possible it could be like a 10k to 8k thing. I doubt it'd be by much though just based on past trends. We'll have to see how things go.

 

[CNL]

8,000 ps3s sold....
To Sony. that must feel like sitting on a hot soldering iron.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

GTA3 was too clunky on the PS2's hardware.

Yes. Design decision, though. There could've been more cars and people simultaneously without things disappearing when you turned around, just like there could be even more cars and people in Crackdown if they'd used PS2-level models. Certainly finally doing these things on X360 is a good use of its power, but they could've also used the previous generation's power to similar ends. Even games like N64's Body Harvest allowed for a lot of variety over a large area, though its appearance suffered. Certainly the PS2 generation could do much much more beyond that.

 

[jimbo]

Not this week, but if trends keep down for the PS3, when Trusty Bell and the Best Price version of Tenchu come out the same week its not possible it could be like a 10k to 8k thing. I doubt it'd be by much though just based on past trends. We'll have to see how things go.

Do you know how the original Forza did for the Xbox in Japan? Was there any interest?

 

[milanbaros]

I'll take that bet in any territory.

I'm not sure about Europe. In Japan I think it will but NSMB may have revived the Mario brand. I think SSBB will beat mario in the US.

Edit: I hope you were talking about Mario vs SSBB.

 

[Phife Dawg]

So what's everyone's take on Forza 2 for the 360 in Japan. It comes out this thursday. Will it bomb or do decent for a 360 game? Will it cause any sort of spike in hardware sales?

Well judging by the latest Amazon data, it'll beat out Odin Sphere by a close edge and is gonna triumph over FFT.

In all seriousness: I expect it to chart at around 30th place. Hardware spike will be negligible.

 

[Vinnk]

So what's everyone's take on Forza 2 for the 360 in Japan. It comes out this thursday. Will it bomb or do decent for a 360 game? Will it cause any sort of spike in hardware sales?

It will both bomb AND do decent for a 360 game. Any game that sells less than 10,000 in it's first week is a bomb by game standards but still decent by 360 standards. I have seen no ads for this game other than some small in-store flyers.

 

[RiskyChris]

Does anyone have that cool bar chart with the sales of the recent consoles in the first X months? I can't for the life of me find it, and I need it for evidence... =)

Edit: After combing like 30 pages of the NPD thread, I found it!

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Hi five, fellow solstice fan

Anyway, it saddens me that even segata forgot about Skyblazer, probably the best sony imagesoft game that nobody bought

I freaking LOVED Skyblazer! The backgrounds and environments were top notch. The first time through the Tower of the Tarolisk left me in awe. The boss of Petrolith was so freaking awesome.

EDIT: I forgot about the music. Oh the music! That faux-Indian style gave the game so much spice, I didn't care that Sky controlled like a sack of potatoes on a bike.

 

[milanbaros]

Anyone have a similar chart for Japan?

 

[Wyndstryker]

Skyblazer and Solstice...two great games from my childhood...


Which reminds me. I need to get those two carts back from my friend who had them for like....6 years lol.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Anyone have a similar chart for Japan?

Wouldn't be difficult to make one with systems DC and later... though we're still a few weeks shy of Wii hitting the half year point.

 

[HolyCheck]

uh oh..... GCN > 360!

 

[mj1108]

uh oh..... GCN > 360!

360 had shortages. [/damage control]

 

[fernoca]

Brawl might be more front-loaded actually, but it's not going to outsell Galaxy. It's appeal just isn't as mainstream, it's aimed more at core players and Nintendoholics.

That depends...considering that Super Smash Bros. Melee was the only million seller the GameCube had in Japan...and Melee also outsold Sunshine in every region.

 

[Sweedishrodeo]

360 had shortages. [/damage control]

and the Wii is in great supply [/sarcasm]

 

[AdmiralViscen]

360 was in way shorter supply than Wii (or GameCube). That's a fact, not damage control.

 

[Vinnk]

360 was in way shorter supply than Wii (or GameCube). That's a fact, not damage control.

I need the "Not my problem" graphic...

 

[Krowley]

I need the "Not my problem" graphic...

well anyway, i'm pretty sure the 360 has outpaced the cube since then so there are really no bragging rights at stake.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Using all Famitsu for consistency, here are launch-through-26-weeks values which can go into a bar. I won't bother until Wii catches up, but if anyone wants to get to it first go ahead. Looks like there's some more obscure stuff early on I wasn't thinking of, too.

GBC: 1.52 M
NGP: 0.09 M
DC : 0.62 M
PoS: 1.03 M (PocketStation)
WS : 0.53 M
PS2: 2.60 M
WSC: 0.45 M
GBA: 3.10 M
GCN: 1.22 M
XBX: 0.26 M
DS : 2.20 M
PSP: 1.41 M
360: 0.14 M
PS3: 0.90 M

Wii: 2.32 M (3 weeks remaining)

 

[jj984jj]

uh oh..... GCN > 360!

uh oh..... 360 > PS3 and there is no shortage!

 

[AdmiralViscen]

well anyway, i'm pretty sure the 360 has outpaced the cube since then so there are really no bragging rights at stake.

Yes. By a lot.

 

[cartman414]

Wow. If the Wii has 3 more (almost) 6 digit weeks, the PS2 will have to relinquish the silver.

Still though, the GBA started out the best.

Edit: What site(s) do I look up to get console totals by week of release?

 

[Square2005]

Actually in Japan you're wrong.

FFI-III need to be added, here are the sales:
FFI - 520k (FC only)
FFII - 760k (")
FFIII - 1.40m (")

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Wow. If the Wii has 3 more (almost) 6 digit weeks, the PS2 will have to relinquish the silver.

Still though, the GBA started out the best.

It is worth noting that if I were to include system redesigns, DSL would trounce the GBA with 3.99 M. Also, considering Famitsu has been tracking Wii a bit lower than MC recently plus we're in a post-GW dip, no way Wii is catching up to PS2. At the 52 week chart we start talking about in November, yes.

 

[cartman414]

FFI-III need to be added, here are the sales:
FFI - 520k (FC only)
FFII - 760k (")
FFIII - 1.40m (")

Thanks Square2005.

I do wonder a little: why did FF6 outsell its predecessor by only 100,000? Shorter legs/more front-loaded?

 

[Gekkonidae]

Wow, I never realized that FFX-2 outsold FFXII. Does not bode well.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Edit: What site(s) do I look up to get console totals by week of release?

I got my Famitsu data from http://geimin.net/da/fa and compiled it into spreadsheet form (OpenOffice format or comma-separated values) and then just did some sum calculations where new systems were launching.

 

[Vinnk]

It's that time again. Time to prepare for this week's "Vinnk's Villiage". What games/systems should I be looking for this week?

Small Preview: My friend in America wants me to send him a copy of Ouendan 2 and I couldn't find one anywhere this weekend so it might be supply constrained.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Yes. Design decision, though. There could've been more cars and people simultaneously without things disappearing when you turned around, just like there could be even more cars and people in Crackdown if they'd used PS2-level models. Certainly finally doing these things on X360 is a good use of its power, but they could've also used the previous generation's power to similar ends. Even games like N64's Body Harvest allowed for a lot of variety over a large area, though its appearance suffered. Certainly the PS2 generation could do much much more beyond that.

I've seen nothing to indicate that this is remotely true on even the Xbox. You're giving the last gen consoles way too much credit. Things like RAM, fillrate, or computational power cannot be overcome by 'design'. There are only so many polygonal objects or AI characters or projectiles a system can keep track of before it chokes and sputters. With modern texturing techniques the poly-counts probably aren't the limiting factors in denizens in a given scene.

The difference between Saints Row and GTA San Andreas is almost embarrassing on a technical level, and the difference between Crackdown and Saints Row in gameplay and scope is very, very significant.

There seems to be a common misconception that all the PS3/360 have to offer is last-gen games in HD - that there hardware can add nothing to gameplay - this really isn't the case, and there are many games coming this year and next that will define their difference from the Wii.

I hate to derail the thread (with a rant on a decidedly American game) but I hate to see a great game get a bum rap.

 

[HolyCheck]

uh oh..... 360 > PS3 and there is no shortage!

hahaha oh god, your tag is SO true.


and to vinnk... a quick squiz at paper mario status still would be nice

 

[Hammer24]

It's that time again. Time to prepare for this week's "Vinnk's Villiage". What games/systems should I be looking for this week?

I´d like to know, how Forza2 is doing there. Thanks in advance!

 

[Grampa Simpson]

It's that time again. Time to prepare for this week's "Vinnk's Villiage". What games/systems should I be looking for this week?

Small Preview: My friend in America wants me to send him a copy of Ouendan 2 and I couldn't find one anywhere this weekend so it might be supply constrained.

Revenant Wings, one more time, please.