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[the thoroughbred]

PS3 however is notably behind the Wii right now, whereas Wii is not notably behind the PSP.

I'm talking about the present here. (Since the statement in question came in response to this thread and not in the beginning of the year.) Say, roughly the last five or six weeks as well as the immediate future.
Let's say there's a bar for "interest level" that makes a system relevant. Dra-Q's statement insinuated that this bar was such that only handhelds qualify. However, based on the current sales climate, if the bar is set so that both handhelds qualify, Wii qualifies as well.
The discussion referred to worldwide numbers and Capcom expected 450k. The game has sold 1600k.

Hold on, lets make it a rule.
When measuring market trends, lets use PS2, PS1, SNES as the precedents. There is not any valuable information deduced when drawing a comparison between a handheld and a home console in regards to one's success.

The recent rise in handhelds (05 - present) has skewed our perspective of general home console sales in Japan. As far as I remember PS2 sales used to hover around the 20-30k mark, with no major releases. So from that I'd say Wii has been slacking, especially this year.

Someone with actual YoY data and charts would definately compliment my above statement, if they would kindly post.

 

[Jokeropia]

^
The home console market has been slacking a bit this year (particularly in the beginning of it) compared to previous generations. However, the Wii is not slacking presently compared to the PSP. These are two different things.

Indeed, but to be a bit fair (or what i shall say), Dra-Q didnt say that he only referred to this week's of sales eventhough he wrote it in this thread though.

Whether or not he referred to only this week of sales or not, the statement was phrased to refer to the present.

"Every game from japan should only be on Handheld from now on. Srly, no one gives a fuck about consoles anymore."

"From now on" is self-explanatory. "Gives" is present tense. If you say that no one cares about consoles right now, you obviously need to consider what's going on right now. You can't say that no one cares about the Wii right now based on really week sales from the beginning of the year because right now it's doing better and the immediate outlook is positive as well.

 

[test_account]

Whether or not he referred to only this week of sales or not, the statement was phrased to refer to the present.

"Every game from japan should only be on Handheld from now on. Srly, no one gives a fuck about consoles anymore."

"From now on" is self-explanatory. "Gives" is present tense. If you say that no one cares about consoles right now, you obviously need to consider what's going on right now. You can't say that no one cares about the Wii right now based on really week sales from the beginning of the year because right now it's doing better and the immediate outlook is positive as well.

Ye, i see what you mean. If he ment this statement in a present state, to be a bit fair, when he said that statement, regarding the hardware sales only, then the Wii hardware sales had dropped 2 weeks in a row, which might have been an indication that the Wii situation wasnt really improving that much. About 2-3 months ago or so, then the Wii did see a smaller increase in hardware sales each week for about 8 weeks in a row though, so things looked good at those times, but then the Wii hardware sales dropped 2 weeks in a row, and this was after the release of Wii Sports Resort, which several of people though would increase the Wii hardware sales more. I guess it can be discussed how good Wii's outlook was looking when Dra-Q's statement was said. After this week's numbers (at about 24k or so), the outlook might look a bit better though

But it wasnt only the Wii hardware sales, the PS3 and the Xbox 360 hardware sales also went down in these 2 weeks. This downfall could maybe be looked at an indication that the console interest was going down again. So maybe this is what he ment that "no one" cares about consoles anymore? The PSP and the DS sales also went a bit down in these 2 weeks though, so maybe it was just a slow period in general, and maybe several of people are/were waiting to buy a Wii until Monster Hunter 3 and/or the black colored Wii comes out, but still, the console sales went a bit down in these 2 weeks.

I dont think that he litterally ment that no one cares about consoles anymore, but i think that he said it like this is get his point through more clearly that the handheld systems (both the DS and the PSP) are what sells the most these days in Japan, and that the console sales arent really that great, at least compared to the previous 2 console generations, and that the game developers might have been able to make money by just making games for the handheld systems. This is just a guess from my side what he maybe ment though, so i am not saying that he said "this" or "that". I would wait for Dra-Q to elaborate (if he wants to) on if he ment this particular week's of sales (or the few previous weeks) or if he ment the console sales within the last months or so before i guess more of what he ment

But i got the answer to my question that i asked you, why you only mentioned the DS, because you referred to this present time (the last few weeks or so) sales, and that the DS is the only gaming system that is selling much more compared to all the other gaming systems, and that is true as you say, i agree. So i now got the answer to my question, thanks

EDIT: I added some text.

 

[Jokeropia]

Ye, i see what you mean. If he ment this statement in a present state, to be a bit fair, when he said that statement, regarding the hardware sales only, then the Wii hardware sales had dropped 2 weeks in a row, which might have been an indication that the Wii situation wasnt really improving that much.

Not necessarily, because it's customary for a system to drop a bit in the weeks leading up to a new hardware SKU release, such as the black Wii. I'm surprised that it actually increased this week.

I dont think that he litterally ment that no one cares about consoles anymore, but i think that he said it like this is get his point through more clearly that the handheld systems (both the DS and the PSP) are what sells the most these days in Japan, and that the console sales arent really that great, at least compared to the previous 2 console generations, and that the game developers might have been able to make money by just making games for the handheld systems.

Such a statement would've made more sense last year or the beginning of this year. Recently Wii has seen a small revitalization (and I expect a bigger one to be imminent) while PSP has been slumping compared to previous levels.

 

[test_account]

Not necessarily, because it's customary for a system to drop a bit in the weeks leading up to a new hardware SKU release, such as the black Wii. I'm surprised that it actually increased this week.

Ye, that is true, i also mentioned that MH3 and/or the black colored Wii could be some reasons for the 2 weeks Wii hardware sales decrease in my previous post But seeing a downfall (it was not really a huge downfall though, but the Wii hardware sale did decrease a bit) in the Wii hardware sales about 2 week after Wii Sports Resort were released, which is probably one of the biggest Wii titles being released this year, this wasnt necessarily a good outlook, at least in my opinion. If Wii Sports Resort didnt really do much for the Wii hardware sales (at least there wasnt really a huge bump in the Wii hardware sale), being one of the biggest Wii titles this year, how would the outlook be for the other Wii games? It is pretty much impossible to know for sure before the games comes out for sale though, but i wouldnt rule out this question completely (i am not saying that you or anyone else are ruling out this question just to underline that, i am just saying that i wouldnt do it). And i guess that many people who are/were interested in Wii Sports Resort might already own a Wii console though.

Personally i also think that the Wii sales will increase now that Wii Sports Resort is out (it might lead to a bit increase in the Wii hardware sales each week as donny2112 predicted earlier), and that the black colored Wii and Monster Hunter 3 are right around the corner (or they might actually be out for sale right now ). I think it should be interesting to see how the Wii hardware sales will look in the upcoming weeks and months

The increase in the Wii hardware sales this week might have been due to Monster Hunter 3 being released this week. I am under the impression that Monster Hunter 3 has had a pretty good ad campaign, and maybe this has increased the awareness of the Wii itself on a general basis, and not just about Wii and Monster Hunter 3. Eventhough that the black colored Wii is also coming out this week, and i am sure that serveral of people wants a black colored Wii, maybe people still prefer a white colored console instead of a black coloroed console. And maybe several of people dont know about the Monster Hunter 3 bundle and/or that people bought a Wii for Wii Sports Resorts as well. This is just some of my guesses though

Such a statement would've made more sense last year or the beginning of this year. Recently Wii has seen a small revitalization (and I expect a bigger one to be imminent) while PSP has been slumping compared to previous levels.

That is true, the Wii has increased a bit within the last 10 weeks or so when it comes to the hardware sales as you say. But, the hardware sales hasnt really been that high though (at least compared to the DS and the PSP, and to the earlier years of the PS2), and this might show a lower interest when it comes to consoles. This goes for all consoles hardware sales, not just the Wii. But i think i know what you mean though, since the Wii has increase a bit in hardware sales, it shows increased interested/caring about consoles (or at least about the Wii), correct? If yes, i agree to this

The PSP sales have indeed gone a bit down compared to the PSP sales for like 2-3 months ago or so as you say, but the PSP sales is still pretty good, and it seems that still relatively many people are interesting in buying a PSP, at least in my opinion This could probably be said for the Wii as well though, but the PSP hardware sales are higher, which might indicate a bigger interested, at least in my opinion.

But even if the consoles interest might be at a lower point now compared to the previous console generations, i still belive that people are interested in consoles in Japan, but maybe people have been a bit more interested in handheld gaming instead of console gaming in this generation compared to previous generations? I think that it should be interesting to see how the console hardware sales will be in the upcoming times

EDIT: I added some text.

 

[donny2112]

PSP and Wii are not direct competitors, in my opinion. I've said this many times before. Spiegel would be one who disagrees with that opinion, for example. Even looking at the entire year-to-date, you can't say Japan cares about PSP and doesn't care about Wii.

Hardware YTD (MC):
PSP - 1.28m
WII - 714K

Software YTD (Famitsu from my database):
PSP - 4.08m
WII - 3.93m


What you can say is that third-party publishers care much more about PSP than Wii.

# of third-party games debuting in MC Top 50 YTD:
PSP - 53
WII - 17

 

[test_account]

PSP and Wii are not direct competitors, in my opinion. I've said this many times before. Spiegel would be one who disagrees with that opinion, for example. Even looking at the entire year-to-date, you can't say Japan cares about PSP and doesn't care about Wii.

Hardware YTD (MC):
PSP - 1.28m
WII - 714K

Software YTD (Famitsu from my database):
PSP - 4.08m
WII - 3.93m


What you can say is that third-party publishers care much more about PSP than Wii.

# of third-party games debuting in MC Top 50 YTD:
PSP - 53
WII - 17

I guess it can depend a bit on how we look at the competition. The PSP and the Wii are 2 different type of gaming system (the PSP being handheld/portable system and the Wii being a standalone system), so in this way they might now be direct competitors. But both systems are gaming systems, and might both appeal to gamers, so there might be some competition about which system and which system people wants to buy games for. And maybe there is some competitions between the PSP and the Wii when it comes to which system developers should develope for, which system that they think has the best sales potential for their game. But i think i know what you mean when you say that the PSP and the Wii isnt direct competitors.

In my previous posts, i didnt really mean to say that the PSP and the Wii are direct competitors, i mostly wanted to say that when it comes to the handheld systems (both the DS and the PSP), people seems to care more about these systems than consoles. I guess that maybe this is what Dra-Q mostly wanted to say when he said that "no one cares about consoles anymore". Afterall, he did say "consoles" and not just the Wii. And the PS2, the PS3 and the Xbox 360 hardware sales arent exactly too high. So maybe he was thinking more about every console combined. But this is just my guesses what he ment, i dont mean to say that this is what he ment. I can wait for him to elaborate on his statement if wants to do that

I also wanted to say that even if the PSP is behind the DS when it comes to hardware and software sales, i still think that the PSP is a handheld system that many people care about. The PSP is afterall selling more than any of the standalone consoles on a weekly basis, and the YTD software is also higher than any of the consoles, at least when it comes to 2009's YTD, although i must admit that i didnt know that the PSP and the Wii software sales for 2009 YTD were that close I also didnt know how many PSP and Wii 3rd party titles that had charted this year in Media Create's Top 50 list, so thanks for this info too

I dont and didnt mean to say anything bad about the Wii sales or anything like that, just to underline that The Wii hardware sales has afterall increased in the last 10 weeks or so, and this might be a good outlook for the weeks and months (and maybe even years?) to come, and Monster Hunter 3 and the black colored Wii being released today will probably also push the Wii hardware sales, so i know what Jokeropia ment when he said that people still care about the Wii, and since the hardware sales are increasing, i do agree that this is a sign that people care about the Wii

EDIT: I added some text.

 

[BishopLamont]

More support for PSP = less support for anything else including the Wii. In this way every console is competing with each other, whether directly like the 360 and PS3 which are both HD systems, or indirectly like the Wii and PSP. At the same time, the PSP and Wii supplement each other in the case of something like the MH3, where the Wii getting it because of easier porting to the PSP. Another example would be the 360 helping the PS3 because of similar power and expensive dev costs making most games multiplatform.

The DS being portable and low dev costs makes it the perfect console to develop for and still keep the exclusives it has. The Wii is just stuck in the middle, being a low power console to share HD ports but dev costs are higher then the DS to have it's own exclusives, and the only thing it has going for it is motion controls, something that many devs are just not excited about. Now that everything is starting to trend to what the market can realistically support, hopefully devs will give all the consoles the right support.

 

[test_account]

More support for PSP = less support for anything else including the Wii. In this way every console is competing with each other, whether directly like the 360 and PS3 which are both HD systems, or indirectly like the Wii and PSP. At the same time, the PSP and Wii supplement each other in the case of something like the MH3, where the Wii getting it because of easier porting to the PSP. Another example would be the 360 helping the PS3 because of similar power and expensive dev costs making most games multiplatform.

About more support and less support, i guess it might depend a bit on how well the games sell/how much the developers and publishers makes on each platform. If there are 2 platforms where the developers and publishers are making money on both 2 platforms, i guess that both of these 2 platforms could see good game support. But on the other hand, supporting 2 platforms with a good amount of games might require more developers, which cost more money, so maybe some developers/publishers can only afford to support 1 platform more than another. And if this is the case, then one of the platforms might see less support than the other platform indeed as you say

But ye, some platforms are helping eachother, like it might be more easy to port from the Wii to the PSP, and like the Xbox 360 and the PS3 are helping eachother because they got similar hardware power as you say, i agree

The DS being portable and low dev costs makes it the perfect console to develop for and still keep the exclusives it has. The Wii is just stuck in the middle, being a low power console to share HD ports but dev costs are higher then the DS to have it's own exclusives, and the only thing it has going for it is motion controls, something that many devs are just not excited about. Now that everything is starting to trend to what the market can realistically support, hopefully devs will give all the consoles the right support.

Well said, i agree I am looking forward to see how each gaming system will receive game support in the months/years to come. Hopefully all the gaming systems will be given the right support as you say

 

[Jokeropia]

I think Donny's theory is good. Wii Sports Resort is much more likely to cause a small baseline increase than any huge bump, and I think what actually happened supports this as well.

Monster Hunter 3 and the black Wii will almost certainly cause a much bigger hardware splash that may or may not lead to an increased baseline as well.

 

[test_account]

I think Donny's theory is good. Wii Sports Resort is much more likely to cause a small baseline increase than any huge bump, and I think what actually happened supports this as well.

Monster Hunter 3 and the black Wii will almost certainly cause a much bigger hardware splash that may or may not lead to an increased baseline as well.

Ye, i do agree that his theory has a high chance to happend, and the Wii hardware sales did also see a small increase for several of weeks before Wii Sports Resort was released as well. Maybe this was due to the anticipation of Wii Sports Resort? So donny2112's theory might be pretty accurate indeed

I guess that we will know the result regarding the increased Wii baseline a bit better maybe 1-2 months after MH3 and the black colored Wii have been released, since in the upcoming weeks, the Wii hardware sale boost will probably be affected much by MH3 and the black colored Wii as well, and not just by Wii Sports Resort. Of course, MH3 and the black colored Wii might also affect the Wii hardware sales for several of months though But i think it should be interesting to see how the Wii will contunie to sell in the upcoming weeks and months

EDIT: Thanks for the discussion by the way