Cosmonaut X
Member
Allan Holdsworth said:
Japanese title for Megaman.
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Media Create Sales: Nov 2-8, 2009
- Thread starter donny2112
- Start date
Japanese title for Megaman.
Allan Holdsworth
Member
Cosmonaut X said:
I know, but what MM game came out recently? Probably one of those crappy RPGs, I guess.
Cosmonaut X said:
Looking at Monster Hunter 3 you see that nice traditional games actually sell and I´m sure Tales of Graces will be the next decent selling game. Crystal Bearers on the other hand is just too quirky and had many things going against it. They just couldn´t deliver a mass appealing product, beginning with odd designs (only the main cast looks decent the others mostly like ugly mutants, especially those freaky Liltys).
making it a part of the Crystal Chronicles series (the latest one sold bad even on NDS and the Wii version was really a joke -> bad reputation). Really bad, dumb advertising what were all those crazy gameplay snippet for? The idea for telekinese is not a bad one but it looks like it´s the only thing you can do after the short bazooka sequence. It just seems chaotic and not like fun.
Most people want swords and stuff, but they completely cutted that off. That´s actually essential not only for a FinalFantasy.
And it surely doesn´t help when SQEX producers are whining beforehand that it won´t sell especially knowing that due to it´s natur Crytal Bearers was looked with alot scepticism from videogamers, the mediocre Famitsu score was actually only the tombstone after their miserable actions. Putting it head to head with Final Fantasy 13 release schedule wise (barely a month) is also an ingenious act. Especially after burning out even the most hardcore FF fans with tons (and sometime even bad) spin-offs.
I´m still interested in this game but they messed up alot of things.
vicissitudes
Banned
Don't mean to beat a dead horse, but FFCC's sales are seriously disappointing. I thought 100k+ first week for sure. Isn't this supposed to be the Wii's best holiday line-up? And FFCC was one of the big ones? First Mario and Sonic, now FFCC, is this trend going to continue? And all these games have done nothing for hardware so far. I still think December + NSMBWii will kick Wii sales into overdrive but now I'm not so sure...
Cosmonaut X
Member
Just to be clear, I'm not blaming the poor performance of FFCC:CB entirely on what I think is the poor perception of the Wii - there are other factors to consider here.
However, I do think that games are being overlooked on the platform by an audience who would usually be receptive to them because they perceive the system to be all about more casual games, or just a dumping ground for ill-thought-out, poorly produced schlock - thanks largely to third parties who produced exactly that, but also to Nintendo for not using their marketing muscle to promote the other side of the coin (their own and third parties more "traditional" titles) as heavily as they have their "expanded audience" titles.
Games like Monster Hunter Tri, with huge marketing campaigns, can do well, as can titles that have fanbases who will buy just about anything with the title on (RE, Tales etc.), but I think there's a big hole where titles that would have done well on something like the PS2 or DS are not doing as well as they could.
However, I do think that games are being overlooked on the platform by an audience who would usually be receptive to them because they perceive the system to be all about more casual games, or just a dumping ground for ill-thought-out, poorly produced schlock - thanks largely to third parties who produced exactly that, but also to Nintendo for not using their marketing muscle to promote the other side of the coin (their own and third parties more "traditional" titles) as heavily as they have their "expanded audience" titles.
Games like Monster Hunter Tri, with huge marketing campaigns, can do well, as can titles that have fanbases who will buy just about anything with the title on (RE, Tales etc.), but I think there's a big hole where titles that would have done well on something like the PS2 or DS are not doing as well as they could.
Cosmonaut X said:
So tell me, why did Code Age Commanders sell 36k in the first week? Was it because it was overlooked on PS2 by an audience who would usually be receptive to it, because they perceived the PS2 to be for more casual games or just a dumping ground for ill-thought-out, poorly produced schlock?
Edit: Oh and why did Blood of Bahamut sell only 31k in the first week? Maybe the DS is being overlooked by an audience who would usually be receptive to it too, because they perceive it to be for more casual games or just a dumping ground for ill-thought-out, poorly produced schlock.
The bottom line is that if a game has low appeal to audiences in general, it sells shit. It doesn't matter if it's a Square Enix game, and it certainly doesn't matter if it's a Final Fantasy game. It needs to appeal, or people won't buy it.
Cosmonaut X
Member
duckroll said:
Nah, probably because it was shit ;-)
I did say I wasn't blaming the poor sales of FFCC:CB entirely on what I think is the poor perception of the system, though, didn't I?
Cosmonaut X said:
I know what you mean and you aren´t really wrong but you are indeed blowing it up. Looking at the charts you´ll see that especially in Japan the audiences are sticking more and more to big franchises and its sequels, mainline games and not low budget spin-offs. Just look at the list of PS3 games that sold "decent" this year, Resident Evil, Street Fighter, Tekken, Tales of, Pro Evo, Musou, Gundam etc. all mainline games of big franchises and big dedicated fanbases. There was also Bayonetta but you know how anticipated and marketed it was, it also got awesome reviews and it´s obvious to everyone that it isn´t low budget like let´s say MadWorld and Co.. The real problem is that publishers are just doing a really bad job at delivering mass appealing software on Wii.
vicissitudes
Banned
Chris1964 said:
Based on other people's predictions, FFCC on GC, having Final Fantasy in the title, I don't know.
What are the big upcoming games? Taiko will probably be a slow burner and not really sell hardware. Tales of Graces should break 200k, and there's NSMB of course, but that's about it. Can't think of anything else that will do much. Only NSMB can really push some hardware, and only a handful of games will pass 100k. Pretty meh all around.
duckroll said:
I understand what you're getting at, but having played Crystal Bearers, it's not a bad game. You seem to be implying that the game is bad so it sold bad. I've never played Code Age Commanders so I have no idea what kind of game it is, or even what kind of marketing push it had. The original reveal for this game had some hype. People I know who were big Wii gamers at the time were excited about it. The dead spell, and the new reveal as to what the game was going to be pretty much killed whatever hype they had going for it at the time. There are a lot of factors here, but I agree with Cosmo in that the current state of the Wii here in Japan puts it in a strange situation as people who might have tried it wouldn't even consider picking it up.
You act like most people keep track of what studio made what. I'd be very surprised if that were the case. This game had Final Fantasy on it. I don't know anything about their first game, but the fact that it was part of the FF group, I was willing to see what it was about. I imagine that's the case for a lot of people. Trouble is, Square can't find a way to explain to people why they should be excited about this game. Maybe that's their biggest problem. <shrug>
Yeah. That is true also. However, the difference is that the PS3 is getting those games. The Wii isn't. People will go where those games are and right now, as far as consoles go, they're on the PS3. Though, the funny thing is yesterday, one of my students told me he picked up Bayonetta and told me to pick it up because the game was awesome. I asked if he picked up the PS3 version and he said no, because the 360 version got a 40 in Famitsu. Heh, heh. And here I was thinking that none of them read that....should have known better.
EDarkness said:
No, you misunderstand me completely. I am not implying that the game is bad so it sold bad. I am implying that people don't care for what it is. I don't care if a game is bad or not, this is sales-age, not review-age. There are plenty of games which appeal to me in particular, which I have no problems analyzing has being total bombs even before release, because I know for a fact that to general audiences there will be a disconnect and general disinterest.
Code Age was a pretty massive push by Square at the time as a massive cross-media project. They had a manga, a mobile game, a PS2 game, etc. Code Age Commanders itself was the main dish, pushed as the next game by the FFCC team and the FFCC director, and being a unique and alternative action RPG experience. It completely fell flat on its face because the reality is that people don't give a crap about "alternative" experiences in general.
This is a very common trend in the industry, and I don't see why it's so hard to understand. People like things which are familiar and look to be of high quality. When you try something alternative or different, and it is something hard to explain easily, expect it to bomb. There are rare cases where something new and different is well marketed and connects with audiences such that they pick it up and it becomes the next new thing, but that's very rare and not something that is often equated to RPGs in particular because of the nature of the fanbase.
What I am saying has nothing to do with a game's actual quality, but everything to do with consumer perception. My example with Code Age Commanders is fitting because I am pretty sure Cosmonaut X has most likely never even PLAYED the game before he commented that it was probably because the game is shit. If he can make a comment like that, then that same perception can easily be extended to Crystal Bearers.
EDarkness said:
That is not what I meant. Maybe I am misunderstood because no one here seems to actually know WHAT Code Age Commanders is. It was a very similar sort of announcement and had similar media attention. The game is action based, but it was marketed as an alternate RPG experience, which simply looked weird and confusing, and it seems to be a style of design the team itself wants to pursue.
That is what I meant, that if the team failed to capture the attention of anyone the first time, why would anyone think they would have more success this time round when it seemed like the same sort of marketing engine?
EDarkness said:
It´s not only a matter of bad game or good game. It has to appeal and it´s undeniable that Crystal Bearer is a very "special" game that isn´t exactly mass appealing, beginning with art direction and chaotic looking gameplay. Like I said before Crystakl Beareres was watched with a lot scepticism and when a game with the Final Fantasy brand gets mediocre score from Famitsu the scepticism won´t disappear, it actually rises.
Wii performance after price cut
So far it's outperforming both 2007 and 2008. Week 49 will be huge for Wii and the one that should give a clear advantage over PS3. New Super Mario Bros. Wii, PokePark Wii, Samurai Warriors 3 with hardware and controller bundles.
Code:
week 2007 2008 2009
40 20.704 25.330 35.392
41 20.575 22.877 30.741
42 24.932 26.024 29.965
43 27.502 24.292 25.917
44 37.617 23.123 28.888
45 34.546 24.726 31.810
46 36.230 26.787
47 54.362 35.298
48 74.764 49.848
49 115.057 56.702
50 170.558 91.641
51 232.907 131.054
52 152.209 134.958So far it's outperforming both 2007 and 2008. Week 49 will be huge for Wii and the one that should give a clear advantage over PS3. New Super Mario Bros. Wii, PokePark Wii, Samurai Warriors 3 with hardware and controller bundles.
duckroll said:No, you misunderstand me completely. I am not implying that the game is bad so it sold bad. I am implying that people don't care for what it is. I don't care if a game is bad or not, this is sales-age, not review-age. There are plenty of games which appeal to me in particular, which I have no problems analyzing has being total bombs even before release, because I know for a fact that to general audiences there will be a disconnect and general disinterest.
Code Age was a pretty massive push by Square at the time as a massive cross-media project. They had a manga, a mobile game, a PS2 game, etc. Code Age Commanders itself was the main dish, pushed as the next game by the FFCC team and the FFCC director, and being a unique and alternative action RPG experience. It completely fell flat on its face because the reality is that people don't give a crap about "alternative" experiences in general.
This is a very common trend in the industry, and I don't see why it's so hard to understand. People like things which are familiar and look to be of high quality. When you try something alternative or different, and it is something hard to explain easily, expect it to bomb. There are rare cases where something new and different is well marketed and connects with audiences such that they pick it up and it becomes the next new thing, but that's very rare and not something that is often equated to RPGs in particular because of the nature of the fanbase.
What I am saying has nothing to do with a game's actual quality, but everything to do with consumer perception. My example with Code Age Commanders is fitting because I am pretty sure Cosmonaut X has most likely never even PLAYED the game before he commented that it was probably because the game is shit. If he can make a comment like that, then that same perception can easily be extended to Crystal Bearers.
That is not what I meant. Maybe I am misunderstood because no one here seems to actually know WHAT Code Age Commanders is. It was a very similar sort of announcement and had similar media attention. The game is action based, but it was marketed as an alternate RPG experience, which simply looked weird and confusing, and it seems to be a style of design the team itself wants to pursue.
That is what I meant, that if the team failed to capture the attention of anyone the first time, why would anyone think they would have more success this time round when it seemed like the same sort of marketing engine?
Yeah. I totally agree with that. Like I said, Square Enix can't find a way to explain why we need to get excited about this game. People look at it and go "cool", but that's not enough to really get people to put cash down on something.
Chris1964 said:
PokePark isn't going to have much impact at all. It's not really a title people will really care that much about unless they're a hardcore Pokemon fan (ie: interested in things beyond the main series) and they also happen to have a Wii. It's more of a complimentary title than one which actually has any sort of push on its own imo.
For Sengoku Musou 3, I can't quite put a number to it just yet. But I have good reason to suspect it will do significantly worse than Sengoku Musou 2.
Cosmonaut X
Member
duckroll said:What I am saying has nothing to do with a game's actual quality, but everything to do with consumer perception. My example with Code Age Commanders is fitting because I am pretty sure Cosmonaut X has most likely never even PLAYED the game before he commented that it was probably because the game is shit. If he can make a comment like that, then that same perception can easily be extended to Crystal Bearers.
About an hour on a friend's import copy ;-)
EDIT:
Anyway, we're getting off what I hoped was the point I was making, so: duckroll, would you agree that there are a number of games on the system that are performing worse than they would if the system had a better perception amongst, say teen/young adult audiences? Or do you think I'm completely off-base?
duckroll said:
PokePark will have a small impact, but bigger than Crystal Bearers and other high-budget games. As for Sengoku Musou 3 of course it will sell significantly worse than 2 but:
I look the games from the impact they will have on hardware. Graces also has a hardware bundle.
duckroll said:
well, that exactly is the problem.
whenever there is a FF:CC announcement, SE is downright telling us " Yeap, we are going for another cheap, half-assed, mediocre game on the action RPG genre " In that sense "Crystal Chronicles" is absolutely tainted. People know what CC is all about and they also know that it´s not going to change. Your hypotetic CC game will never happen and people know it.
as for CB, It was all perfectly planned:
.- Low shipments
.- middle-low talent investment
.- middle-low budget
.- some ads but not too much as to make people believe it´s really worth it.
We sometimes think that the companies are trying to go for "the best game ever" with every game they produce but it´s rarely like that, Square-Enix knows damn well what CC was created for and those of us who expected anything from a crystal bearers title saleswise were a bit too optimistic, maybe even deluded.
Wrong word: higher budget games. I can put a ton of Wii games that came out this year in there. From the videos I saw it could some kind of appeal to the Pokemon fans. I don't think there are too many of them with a Wii. In three weeks we will know who is right.duckroll said:
Magicpaint
Member
The Crystal Chronicles name could have been a curse on Crystal Bearers after Echoes of Time Wii, but the game itself actually reminded me of Dawn of Mana (SD4) with the wacky physics thing going on, but I'm not sure if it actually plays like that (snce I haven't followed the game since then), but I just can't see the appeal of the style of gameplay CB was going for. I honestly believe Wii has a software problem in Japan, but I don't think CB would have done well anywhere else.
Cosmonaut X said:
I don't think that's an unreasonable claim, but I also don't think that this particular claim has anything to do at all with Crystal Bearers. That was mostly my point. Ultimately I think the perception of a piece of hardware by the consumer market is not really something that is overly important in the grand scheme of things. If there is a game which appeals directly to a large group of people, very few people in that group will actually go "nah, I'll pass" just because of the platform the game is on.
The perception of a piece of hardware is often directly related to the perception of the actual software which is on it. If the Wii suffers from a perception problem that there aren't many core games on it targeted at young adults, it would be because that is mostly true. If there is a huge influx of games which target that group of consumers, and they actually successfully appeal to to that group, then the perception of the hardware will change because of the software.
Chris1964 said:
If you mean that it has a better chance to sell hardware than games which are higher budget than Pokepark itself, then sure I totally agree. What I'm saying is that it isn't a significant or substantial amount of appeal. Being a Pokemon brand game, and coming from Nintendo directly, it is already in a better position than many third party games, but when compared with the bulk of Nintendo's own first party efforts, I just don't see that Pokepark is really a big deal. It's just a minor complimentary side project.
NeonZ
Member
EXGN said:
The Budokai Tenkaichi series always used the increasingly high number of characters as marketing power, this game has less characters than the 1st one and it's still basically a Sparking game, in spite of the name change...
I don't know who decided that the market would accept next gen games with significantly less features than previous gen ones, but he was an idiot. It's clearly not working at all.
Dengeki numbers for Nov. 2 - 8:
01./00. [PS3]　World Soccer Winning Eleven 2010 (Konami) 232,761 / NEW
02./05. [WII] Wii Fit Plus (Nintendo) - 72,259 / 852,929
03./07. [NDS] Tomodachi Collection (Nintendo) - 63,033 / 1,575,339
04./04. [PSP] Persona 3 Portable (Atlus) - 48,697 / 133,636
05./08. [NDS] Pokemon Soul Silver (Pokemon) - 42,594 / 1,484,149
06./01. [PS3] Bayonetta (Sega) - 32,863 / 169,800
07./02. [NDS] Hikari no 4 Senshi: Final Fantasy Gaiden (Square Enix) - 32,726 / 149,755
08./09. [NDS] Pokemon Heart Gold (Pokemon) - 31,294 / 1,415,116
09./00. [WII]　Mario & Sonic at the Vancouver Olympics　(Nintendo) - 23,994 / NEW
10./00. [NDS]　Summon Night X: Tears Crown (Bandai Namco Games) - 23,444 / NEW
11./03. [PS3] Tekken 6 (Bandai Namco Games) - 23,413 / 130,578
12./12. [NDS] Inazuma Eleven 2: Kyoui no Shinryakusha - Blizzard (Level 5) - 21,844 / 304,224
13./11. [NDS] Inazuma Eleven 2: Kyoui no Shinryakusha - Fire (Level 5) - 21,533 / 287,062
14./15. [WII] Wii Sports Resort (Nintendo) - 17,681 / 1,341,097
15./13. [PSP] Dissidia: Final Fantasy - Universal Tuning (Square Enix) - 16,776 / 36,651
16./00. [PS3] inFAMOUS (SCE) - 14,856 / NEW
17./06. [360] Bayonetta (Sega) - 13,165 / 74,965
18./00. [NDS]　Tamagotchi no Narikiri Channel　(Bandai Namco Games) - 12,393 / NEW
19./00. [PS3] 3D Dot Game Heroes (From Software) - 10,456 / NEW
20./21. [NDS] Dragon Quest IX: Hoshizora no Mamoribito (Square Enix) - 8,776 / ?
Other software:
[PS3] World Soccer Winning Eleven 2009 (Konami) - (FW: 182,000 / LTD: 446,000)
[WII] Mario & Sonic at the Beijing Olympics (Nintendo) - (FW: 71,000 / LTD: 575,000)
Random note: WE2010 has the 4th best opening week of a PS3 title.
Numbers by Famitsu:
01. MGS4 - 476,000
02. RGG3 - 357,000
03. RE5 - 322,000
04. WE2010 - 235,000 <------
05. TOV - 228,000
01./00. [PS3]　World Soccer Winning Eleven 2010 (Konami) 232,761 / NEW
02./05. [WII] Wii Fit Plus (Nintendo) - 72,259 / 852,929
03./07. [NDS] Tomodachi Collection (Nintendo) - 63,033 / 1,575,339
04./04. [PSP] Persona 3 Portable (Atlus) - 48,697 / 133,636
05./08. [NDS] Pokemon Soul Silver (Pokemon) - 42,594 / 1,484,149
06./01. [PS3] Bayonetta (Sega) - 32,863 / 169,800
07./02. [NDS] Hikari no 4 Senshi: Final Fantasy Gaiden (Square Enix) - 32,726 / 149,755
08./09. [NDS] Pokemon Heart Gold (Pokemon) - 31,294 / 1,415,116
09./00. [WII]　Mario & Sonic at the Vancouver Olympics　(Nintendo) - 23,994 / NEW
10./00. [NDS]　Summon Night X: Tears Crown (Bandai Namco Games) - 23,444 / NEW
11./03. [PS3] Tekken 6 (Bandai Namco Games) - 23,413 / 130,578
12./12. [NDS] Inazuma Eleven 2: Kyoui no Shinryakusha - Blizzard (Level 5) - 21,844 / 304,224
13./11. [NDS] Inazuma Eleven 2: Kyoui no Shinryakusha - Fire (Level 5) - 21,533 / 287,062
14./15. [WII] Wii Sports Resort (Nintendo) - 17,681 / 1,341,097
15./13. [PSP] Dissidia: Final Fantasy - Universal Tuning (Square Enix) - 16,776 / 36,651
16./00. [PS3] inFAMOUS (SCE) - 14,856 / NEW
17./06. [360] Bayonetta (Sega) - 13,165 / 74,965
18./00. [NDS]　Tamagotchi no Narikiri Channel　(Bandai Namco Games) - 12,393 / NEW
19./00. [PS3] 3D Dot Game Heroes (From Software) - 10,456 / NEW
20./21. [NDS] Dragon Quest IX: Hoshizora no Mamoribito (Square Enix) - 8,776 / ?
Other software:
[PS3] World Soccer Winning Eleven 2009 (Konami) - (FW: 182,000 / LTD: 446,000)
[WII] Mario & Sonic at the Beijing Olympics (Nintendo) - (FW: 71,000 / LTD: 575,000)
Code:
Hardware | This Week | Last Week | YTD | LTD
------------------------------------------------------------
NDS | 45,473 | 41,741 | 3,050,006 | 28,028,097
PSP | 50,250 | 58,951 | 1,787,832 | 12,937,150
Wii | 29,002 | 26,250 | 1,214,638 | 8,797,681
PS3 | 54,985 | 37,028 | 1,171,884 | 3,874,027
X360 | 4,998 | 5,121 | 314,896 | 1,166,079
PS2 | 1,975 | 1,910 | 1,939 |
------------------------------------------------------------
Total | 186,683 | 171,001 |Random note: WE2010 has the 4th best opening week of a PS3 title.
Numbers by Famitsu:
01. MGS4 - 476,000
02. RGG3 - 357,000
03. RE5 - 322,000
04. WE2010 - 235,000 <------
05. TOV - 228,000
pseudocaesar
Member
Road said:
Slim effect indeed. PS3 is kickin ass and taking names.
Road said:
I know this will sound funny , but Bayonetta need legs.
Road said:
I believe RGG4 can do better than that for first week (and overall too ).
as for SEGA HD games , next year SEGA will have EoE first and before RGG4 , and I think EoE can do +200K first week thing will be more interesting for SEGA HD front , I hope they bring Phantasy Star back again to consoles ( new Universe or V ) and AM2's Border Break , and maybe House of the Dead for the PSwand thingy since their HD lineup need to be better than now ( Bayonetta wasn't that big hit but it was decent as new IP , and RGG series maybe end with part 4 ) .
Totobeni said:
I'm a little skeptical about that. RgG2 is still the high point of the series in terms of sales, and I don't really think it has expanded the fanbase much since then. RgG3 had a significantly bigger opening than RgG2 did in the first week, but yet ultimately did not reach RgG2's LTD. With RgG4 coming out just a year later, I'm not really convinced it can do significantly better in both the first week, and the LTD. It would be a success if they can just get similar sales.
I wonder...
Dragona Akehi
Retired
dolemite said:
If you've actually read the M-C threads, everyone was fairly sure that Crystal Bearers would bomb and bomb hard. The only game that can 'save' the Wii that anyone had actually mentioned in such a fashion (and more in the "this is the only software that could possibly move hardware" type thing) is New Super Mario Bros. Wii.
But, you haven't actually read any M-C threads, have you?
Cosmonaut X
Member
dolemite said:
Visiting but not posting, it seems...
Dragona Akehi
Retired
dolemite said:
If you're going to admit that the only reason you came here was to troll... well then: ta-ta!
Dragona Akehi
Retired
duckroll said:
Stupidity.
Cosmonaut X
Member
Dragona Akehi said:
Dichromacy?