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cvxfreak said:
Sin and Punishment: Successor to the Sky had two commercials too, and look what happened to it.
Of course, they didn't have Bon Jovi.
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Media Create Sales: Nov 2-8, 2009
- Thread starter donny2112
- Start date
Sin and Punishment: Successor to the Sky had two commercials too, and look what happened to it.
Of course, they didn't have Bon Jovi.
EDarkness said:
While I'm not aiming this post at you in particular, I really just have to ask something concerning whenever a Wii game bombs. How long are we going to move the goal posts when something that clearly had a lot of effort put into it bombs at retail? Whether it be Sin and Punishment, Muramasa, TvC, Crystal Bearers, etc, etc, the similar line that comes up is something along the lines of "This was expected/This is no surprise. That was a niche game and was destined to fail, etc, etc." I mean, third party-wise, what exactly are the surprises? MH3?
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MechaX said:
That Taiko no Tatsujin drum game!
MechaX said:
I don't know if Sin and Punishment is a great example there. And I agree with you that Crystal Bearer's problem wasn't in the amount of advertising. I think its problems run way deeper than that, some the fault of Nintendo and some the fault of SE.
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
The Crystal Bearers biggest FF flop ever 
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John Harker said:The Crystal Bearers biggest FF flop ever
Wii version of Echoes of Time disagrees.
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Jonnyram said:Hardly a fair comparison seeing as it was just the DS game running on a TV
Hush you, I'm trying to alleviate the masses.
I don't think you guys understand. 4WoLFFG, FFCCCB and DissidiaFF UT were not meant to make any money. They were all simply elaborate marketing schemes disguised as games. They simply exist to remind everyone out there that FF games still exist, and that FFXIII is coming out in Dec. It's an awareness campaign, they don't expect anyone to actually buy these games. :lol
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duckroll said:
So the reason Nintendo doesn't advertise their non-elite games is so that the audience knows they still make Mario and Wii ___ titles?
It's a brilliant idea!
MechaX said:
Well, I can't speak for people, but being here in Japan and working with people (many of them who are gamers), it's pretty plain to see that the Wii has a horrible reputation. You can see it everywhere here. You could see it at TGS this year. Whatever goodwill Nintendo had in this area has been spent, and my personal opinion is that third parties killed it. They warped the mindshare and it's biting them on the ass. Even games like Animal Crossing, which a lot of people at school were waiting for simply disappointed people by not being new and refreshing and now they don't even bother. One of my students showed interest in the Wii version of Winning Eleven, but at the end of the day he purchased a PS3 and Winning Eleven for that system. I'll have to ask him why next class.
Anyway, there was no hype for this game at all. I never saw any real advertising on TV or in shops, none of the students were talking about it. I didn't see any at TGS, the line for this game was short and there were lots of stations to play on. To put it in perspective, I waited 20 minutes to play this game and about 30 minutes to play Red Steel 2. However, to play PSP Metal Gear was almost two hours. The Bayonetta area was jam packed with people, and so was Sony's booth. To me, that's pretty telling. I'm hoping that Mario does okay, but I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't do well as well as some people expect, either. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to bring about doom and gloom, but the Wii situation here just isn't that good. The thing is, I wonder if there's anything anyone can really do about it.
JoshuaJSlone said:
Hey Josh, while I do love reading the "if X stopped selling and Y continued at this week's rate" comparisons, I was wondering if you could add another comparison scheme to the mix, like this
"If X (lower installed base) and Y (higher installed base) continued selling at this week's rate, X would catch up in..."
I guess that would be a more interesting comparison me thinks.
EDarkness said:
There definitely seems to be a lot of truth to what you say, but man, you either converse with the most Wii-hating segment of Japan in existence or you exaggerate a bit- IIRC you were pretty down on both MH Tri and WSR right after launch.
Dragona Akehi
Retired
Hah, Crystal Bearer's first shipment isn't even 100k.
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GCX said:
I wanna blame Kawazu, but that's usual modus operandi.
TomcaT-SdB
One of the Founding Fathers of Saga
With Regards to CB, given the low initial shipment numbers, is SE supporting the game with decent advertising in Japan, or is it being sent out to die?
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TomcaT-SdB said:
Bon Jovi must have eaten the rest of the advertising budget.
duckroll said:Crystal Bearer's initial shipment is not even what 4WoL sold on the first day.
Yup. Pretty pathetic.
I wonder what happened? 3 year development cycle kill any interest and all money for the game? Is it the Wii? The Crystal Chronicles brand? Lack of advertising? It can't have just been the Famitsu score.
schuelma said:
Heh, well, happens when you hang out with a bunch of teens/young adults on a daily basis. They talk a lot of smack and some of the running jokes are about being forced to play Wii games. Sorry for coming off a little strong, as it's really not my intention, but I do want to give some people a bit of perspective about the general mindshare of the Wii here. Of course, walking into a few stores in Akihabara you can see that without even having anyone tell you. Same with TGS where there were very few Wii games present. It's pretty depressing, and I'm glad that Iwata finally acknowledged the current situation.
markatisu said:
No, but the image of the Wii might be turning people away without an aggressive marketing campaign by SE.
CB would have done much better on another system. One that is portable. Consoles are dead in Japan*
*save for this small PS3 resurgence but who knows how long that will last
http://www.inside-games.jp/article/2009/11/13/38786.html
An interesting note about 4WoL FFG. It seems that even though the sales are rather low for a "new" FF RPG title, it's not a failure. After selling 150k in two weeks, S-E has noted that stock is beginning to run out at certain outlets. To prevent a case where stock completely sells out before there are new shipments, they are planning a second shipment by the end of November.
For reference, the initial shipment was about 180k. I guess they're hoping for legs on the game, we'll see though, I'm not convinced that the game has staying power to continue selling beyond 200k. There's no word on how large the second shipment is yet, but at least S-E isn't being Atlus....
An interesting note about 4WoL FFG. It seems that even though the sales are rather low for a "new" FF RPG title, it's not a failure. After selling 150k in two weeks, S-E has noted that stock is beginning to run out at certain outlets. To prevent a case where stock completely sells out before there are new shipments, they are planning a second shipment by the end of November.
For reference, the initial shipment was about 180k. I guess they're hoping for legs on the game, we'll see though, I'm not convinced that the game has staying power to continue selling beyond 200k. There's no word on how large the second shipment is yet, but at least S-E isn't being Atlus....
TomcaT-SdB said:
I saw some in-store advertising last week, but haven't seen anything else. No commercials (though, I heard there were supposed to be some), no videos of the games in stores, either. I'd be surprised if anyone really even knew anything about it. However, there are ads for FFXIII everywhere, even at the local convenience stores. I saw an FFXIII ad at a local restaurant, also. People know that game is coming.
charlequin
Banned
vicissitudes said:Please don't say that.
Start getting used to the idea now, my friend. :lol
MechaX said:
I think you are basically always going to see the responses to this sort of thing being cloudier than you would like based on the fact that even when you have a game that is heavily advertised and promoted (like FF:CC:TCB here) you're still generally looking at a title that's been screwed or even self-sabotaged from the outset (see: FF:CC:TCB being neither a FF-type game to appeal to actual FF fans or a CC-type game to appeal to whoever bought the previous CC games, but instead some sort of terrible physics... thing.)
The Media Create leak proved legit. These are the remaining games (42-50 according to the Media Create site since they combine Pokemon and Inazuma Eleven). Now it remains to be seen how long it will last.
44. [NDS] Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey (Atlus Co.)
45. [NDS] You'll Incur Losses if You Remain Ignorant: How Money and Things Work DS (Nintendo)
46. [PS3] Tales of Vesperia (Namco Bandai)
47. [WII] Sin and Punishment 2: Successor to the Sky (Nintendo)
48. [PS3] Way of the Samurai 3: Plus (PlayStation 3 the Best) (Spike)
49. [PSP] Everybody's Cleaner (SCE)
50. [NDS] Mario Kart DS (Nintendo)
51. [NDS] New Super Mario Bros. (Nintendo)
52. [PS3] Colin McRae: Dirt 2 (Codemasters)
__. [ALL] Total Software Sales - 1.094.545 / 51.232.382
Starting next week and until FFXIII (4 wees) Wii overlaps PS3 in terms of amount and selling power of the upcoming software.
Difference Wii-PS3 YTD: 42.368
44. [NDS] Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey (Atlus Co.)
45. [NDS] You'll Incur Losses if You Remain Ignorant: How Money and Things Work DS (Nintendo)
46. [PS3] Tales of Vesperia (Namco Bandai)
47. [WII] Sin and Punishment 2: Successor to the Sky (Nintendo)
48. [PS3] Way of the Samurai 3: Plus (PlayStation 3 the Best) (Spike)
49. [PSP] Everybody's Cleaner (SCE)
50. [NDS] Mario Kart DS (Nintendo)
51. [NDS] New Super Mario Bros. (Nintendo)
52. [PS3] Colin McRae: Dirt 2 (Codemasters)
__. [ALL] Total Software Sales - 1.094.545 / 51.232.382
Starting next week and until FFXIII (4 wees) Wii overlaps PS3 in terms of amount and selling power of the upcoming software.
Difference Wii-PS3 YTD: 42.368
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Chris1964 said:
There you were!
MechaX said:
I personally have not seen a single Wii core game that I did not expect to bomb which has bombed. So I don't think it's about moving goal posts. Is is not possible to view it in that perspective?
If MH3 had bombed, that would have been a pretty big surprise. I expected it to sell about what it has sold so far. Before release, Dragona said she expected it to bomb, and I told her that I believe the 1 million shipment is "just right" and that the game would have a strong first week, and eventually sell out the 1 million shipment, but it might not ever get beyond that.
For pretty much every other Wii game so far, it has either been a shitty looking title in terms of consumer interest/awareness, or something released by publishers who typically don't have any swing at retail and hence cannot ship much to begin with. These games are expected to bomb. The only chance they have of any notable success is if the word of mouth is somehow VERY strong post-release, which has never been the case so far.
For Nintendo's first party games, something bombing is not unusual even on the DS. Their lack of interest in actually actively pushing core games developed by third parties is nothing new. They believe in a sink or swim mentality where they will give any game they published a few weeks of marketing, and it will live or die by it's own ability to capture an audience on the DS or Wii userbases. This is a harsh method and often results in games selling rather poorly.
For the record, I expect Tales of Graces to sell on par with ToS: DotNW. There is a good chance it will start a little higher than ToS: DotNW, but it will be below ToV PS3. The final LTD for the game should be around 280k to 300k in Japan. It could go beyond 300k if the world of mouth is strong, but I don't see the LTD going beyond 350k.
That is my perspective of third party core games on the Wii, and this is the perspective I have consistently carried for a long time now for people who follow these threads. I don't think it's about moving goal posts, or about trying to make the Wii sound better than it is - because that's the last thing I would be interested in doing. It is just the reality that when games which people don't expect to sell don't sell, that is not shocking.
Moor-Angol
Banned
Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles first week sales : 191.602
Final Fantasy Crystal Bearers first shipment : around 77.000
i think i don't need to add more words...
Final Fantasy Crystal Bearers first shipment : around 77.000
i think i don't need to add more words...
Cosmonaut X
Member
Just want to chip in to note disappointment at the first day sales for FFCC:CB, and to agree with EDarkness - I think the Wii has got a fucking mountain to climb in terms of perception amongst the more "traditional" gaming crowd. I don't think it's insurmountable, but it will take a great deal of effort from Nintendo to rekindle the interest that was there in the first year - interest that has been squandered by pretty much everyone involved.
Nuclear Muffin
Banned
Moor-Angol said:
A tainted brand... ("Crystal Chronicles", not "Final Fantasy" BTW)
Cosmonaut X said:
I dunno though. Even if the game is released on any other platform, why would the "traditional" gaming crowd be particularly interested in a non-traditional looking game?
I mean, I totally agree if we're talking about say, a game like Arc Rise Fantasia. It's a RPG I'm personally very interested in, because it's a traditional RPG, with an interesting turn based battle system, and it has a good amount of interesting staff on it. It didn't sell well at all, because MMV is a failure in Japan. But if it had been a better publisher, and possibly if it was on another platform, it might have sold better.
But with Crystal Bearers, there's none of that. I'm not even interested in the game. As a traditional gamer, I don't even feel it is a title I would buy on ANY platform, especially with the staff behind the game. Did Code Age Commanders sell well on the PS2? Hell no. Was it critically acclaimed? Fuck no. So why would the next game by the same team have any hope of doing well? Slapping the FF name on a game only goes so far to get people interested.
Nuclear Muffin said:
I don't completely accept this either. If a game from Square Enix is called "Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: The Uncharted World" and features art direction from Akihiko Yoshida, game design and direction by Hiroyuki Ito, and is a tradition action RPG with a massive overworld, many great looking dungeons, lots of optional quests, summons, awesome equipment, and an interesting battle system, I am more than confident that it would have no problems selling very well.
Kurosaki Ichigo
Member
Hey, not everything is bad...Sakatsuku did okay.
· [PSP] Sakatsuku 6 - 56,000 (47%)
Last year DS game did 41k first day.
Two years ago PS2 Sakatsuku 5 did 64k first day.
But the PS2 editions were declining pretty fast, in 2002 and 2003 they did >500k LTD.
· [PS3] Dragon Ball - 48,000 (38%)
Burst Limit did 60k first day and that wasn't anywhere near the PS2 titles. No first day available but it should be close to Infinite World PS2 (65k first week).
· [WII] Crystal Bearers - 26,000 (34%)
Hell, its barely better than Echoes of Time Wii (14k first day).
· [NDS] Rockman - 25,000 (41%)
On DS, first day comparison: 42k -> 44k -> 34k -> 25k.
The last one on GBA did 148k first day...
· [PSP] Lunar - 7,300 (37%)
Should do better than the GBA and DS Lunar, but in 1996-1999 the Lunar series did 100k to 200k for the Saturn releases, and 50k to 100k for the PS ports.
· [PSP] Hexyz Force - 7,000 (38%)
I don't think this one is bad either actually.
Riviera GBA 1st week - 9,540
Yggdra GBA 1st week - 17,728
Riviera PSP 1st week - 10,047
Yggdra PSP 1st week - 21,989
Knights in the Nightmare NDS 1st week - 9,301
Those are the five only Sting games on garaph, and Hexyz Force isn't made by the developer of those but the developer behind those Journey Kingdom, Baroque games that don't even chart (they are not on garaph). It could also outsell 3 of those 5 games when we get first week numbers.
bttb said:
· [PSP] Sakatsuku 6 - 56,000 (47%)
Last year DS game did 41k first day.
Two years ago PS2 Sakatsuku 5 did 64k first day.
But the PS2 editions were declining pretty fast, in 2002 and 2003 they did >500k LTD.
· [PS3] Dragon Ball - 48,000 (38%)
Burst Limit did 60k first day and that wasn't anywhere near the PS2 titles. No first day available but it should be close to Infinite World PS2 (65k first week).
· [WII] Crystal Bearers - 26,000 (34%)
Hell, its barely better than Echoes of Time Wii (14k first day).
· [NDS] Rockman - 25,000 (41%)
On DS, first day comparison: 42k -> 44k -> 34k -> 25k.
The last one on GBA did 148k first day...
· [PSP] Lunar - 7,300 (37%)
Should do better than the GBA and DS Lunar, but in 1996-1999 the Lunar series did 100k to 200k for the Saturn releases, and 50k to 100k for the PS ports.
· [PSP] Hexyz Force - 7,000 (38%)
I don't think this one is bad either actually.
Riviera GBA 1st week - 9,540
Yggdra GBA 1st week - 17,728
Riviera PSP 1st week - 10,047
Yggdra PSP 1st week - 21,989
Knights in the Nightmare NDS 1st week - 9,301
Those are the five only Sting games on garaph, and Hexyz Force isn't made by the developer of those but the developer behind those Journey Kingdom, Baroque games that don't even chart (they are not on garaph). It could also outsell 3 of those 5 games when we get first week numbers.
Allan Holdsworth
Member
What's Rockman?