Support NeoGAF

[Bebpo]

It's still baffling to see that Namco ended the current generation (or portable generation or whatever) without releasing a proper mothership Tales on psp.

They sort of did. ToPX Narikiri Dungeon is basically a mothership Tales in the same way ToD R was on the PS2.

...and it sold less than the PSP fanservice spinoffs.

So PSP is now home of fanservice spinoffs instead.

 

[Busaiku]

It's going to continue for every major Tales release now because why would Namco throw away easy money. 200k+ sales at 7000-8000yen for DLC expansion worth of new content? If you have the patience it's better to just wait for Tales of PS3 DC; unfortunately Tales fans do not have patience! :lol

I wonder if they're gonna just stick with one system though.
I think it'd be good for them to stick with multiple system releases, to get their foot on those multiple fanbases.

 

[Kenka]

http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/2010/12/09/ni_no_kuni_event/

Holy destruction ! That's one huge pre-order number _000000_

 

[Chris1964]

First week for major Tales games (Media Create) from 2008 to 2010:

[WII] Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World (Namco Bandai) - 137,000 / NEW
[360] Tales of Vesperia (Namco Bandai Games) - 108,328 / NEW
[NDS] Tales of Hearts (Namco Bandai) - 140,500 / NEW
[PS3] Tales of Vesperia (Namco Bandai) - 216,593 / NEW
[WII] Tales of Graces (Namco Bandai) - 143.215 / NEW
[PS3] Tales of Graces F (Bandai Namco) - 215.187 / NEW

[NDS] Tales of Hearts: Anime Movie Edition (Bandai Namco) {18/12/08} - 123.622
[NDS] Tales of Hearts: CG Movie Edition (Bandai Namco) {18/12/08} - 16.912

 

[Bebpo]

I wonder if they're gonna just stick with one system though.
I think it'd be good for them to stick with multiple system releases, to get their foot on those multiple fanbases.

There are no multiple fanbases when it comes to Tales. The PS3 re-releases and soon Tales of PS3 will show that.

 

[slaughterking]

Bamco is testing the water with a Tales of the Abyss port for the 3DS, though. We'll see what conclusions they'll draw from this.

 

[Grimmy]

They sort of did. ToPX Narikiri Dungeon is basically a mothership Tales in the same way ToD R was on the PS2.

...and it sold less than the PSP fanservice spinoffs.

So PSP is now home of fanservice spinoffs instead.

That's a bit disingenuous - it's a remake of a GameBoy Color game packaged with yet another repackaging of Tales of Phantasia, which already had one previous release on the PSP. You seriously call THAT a mothership game?

 

[duckroll]

Bamco is testing the water with a Tales of the Abyss port for the 3DS, though. We'll see what conclusions they'll draw from this.

They're probably just hoping to continue what they did on the PSP with the 3DS. It follows the same pattern too: they "tested" the PSP with a ToE port, and the system became the breeding ground for more ports and spinoffs.

 

[Bebpo]

Bamco is testing the water with a Tales of the Abyss port for the 3DS, though. We'll see what conclusions they'll draw from this.

Tales has always had a separate handheld line of smaller Tales games by internal and outsourced studios.

3DS will be the successor to the DS in terms of the main portable line with fanservice stuff sticking to PSP & PSP2 most likely.

That's a bit disingenuous - it's a remake of a GameBoy Color game packaged with yet another repackaging of Tales of Phantasia, which already had one previous release on the PSP. You seriously call THAT a mothership game?

Yeah it was bad marketing.

 

[Datschge]

NDX is as much of a remake as ToDR is, there's nothing disingenuous about that.

TotA on 3DS may end up being the belated appeasement to the ToS fanbase in the West. But after the PSP and DS games I can't imagine main Tales games on portable system ever working in Japan.

 

[Jokeropia]

So despite the extraordinary five day first week, MHP3 couldn't quite compete for biggest first week ever. I suppose they didn't have the supplies to really take advantage of the three extra days.

bullshit

Actually in the US at least, it's true.

 

[Grimmy]

NDX is as much of a remake as ToDR is, there's nothing disingenuous about that.

TotA on 3DS may end up being the belated appeasement to the ToS fanbase in the West. But after the PSP and DS games I can't imagine main Tales games on portable system ever working in Japan.

:lol You are comparing a remake of a game that originally sold 1.1 million copies in Japan alone (ToD) to a remake of a sidequest game on the GBC (Nakiriki Dungeon) that originally sold just 139,000 copies in Japan??? Right, nothing disingenuous at all....

 

[duckroll]

:lol You are comparing a remake of a game that originally sold 1.1 million copies in Japan alone (ToD) to a remake of a sidequest game on the GBC (Nakiriki Dungeon) that originally sold just 139,000 copies in Japan??? Right, nothing disingenuous at all....

You are arguing with 2 Tales experts when you yourself have not played the game and don't seem to know very much about it. I suggest you shut up now if you don't want to be completely owned very shortly by both of them.

 

[Grimmy]

You are arguing with 2 Tales experts when you yourself have not played the game and don't seem to know very much about it. I suggest you shut up now if you don't want to be completely owned very shortly by both of them.

Yes it's true I'm no Tales expert, and yes I know the NDX was more than just a mere remake, but categorizing a GBC remake as a mothership game is just wrong.

 

[Chris1964]

Killzone 3 is the next game the gets a release at February.

 

[Datschge]

but categorizing a GBC remake as a mothership game is just wrong.

So being a GBC remake is an insult now?

The GBC game in question was the first Tales spin-off game, an extension of the Phantasia story line by the two Tales veterans which form the backbone of "Team Destiny", Ishizuka and Ishizawa. Its game design was the foundation of Alfa System's later Tales of the World games. The remake was the first time any significant Tales Studio staff worked on PSP at all, with plenty overlap with the Hearts staff (itself the only time Tales Studio worked on the DS). It obviously wasn't worth it, why should a more "main" Tales game (whatever that means) get any more sales? =P

 

[vicissitudes]

Wtf WTF at GT5. Sigh :/

 

[boingball]

wow for the PSP numbers. I thought that the gap between DS and PSP had gotten to big to let my prediction that the PSP would be the best-selling gaming device this year in Japan come true. But 21k difference is easily doable if the MH effect does extend for one week.

 

[Spiegel]

So being a GBC remake is an insult now?

The GBC game in question was the first Tales spin-off game, an extension of the Phantasia story line by the two Tales veterans which form the backbone of "Team Destiny", Ishizuka and Ishizawa. Its game design was the foundation of Alfa System's later Tales of the World games. The remake was the first time any significant Tales Studio staff worked on PSP at all, with plenty overlap with the Hearts staff (itself the only time Tales Studio worked on the DS). It obviously wasn't worth it, why should a more "main" Tales game (whatever that means) get any more sales? =P

All of that don't change that it still was a 2D remake of a GBC spinoff. It's not the best title to measure interest on an all new hypotethical 3D Tales game, close to what the ToTW:RM games look. And iirc the remake outsold the original.

But this is meaningless because PS3 is now the home for the main Tales games and ToTW:RM3 will probably be the last Tales of on Psp.

 

[Datschge]

It's not the best title to measure interest on an all new hypotethical 3D Tales game, close to what the ToTW:RM games look.

Yeah right, that must be it...

 

[PistolGrip]

Next week's releases {16/12/10}

[PSP] Shining Hearts (Sega)
[PSP] Tears to Tiara Gaiden Portable (Aqua Plus)
[PSP] Kanuchi Futatsu no Tsubasa (Idea Factory)
[PSP] Tantei Opera: Milky Holmes (BushiRoad)
[PSP] Eiyuu Densetsu: Sora no Kiseki FC [PSP the Best] (Nihon Falcom)
[PSP] Eiyuu Densetsu: Sora no Kiseki SC [PSP the Best] (Nihon Falcom)
[PSP] Eiyuu Densetsu: Sora no Kiseki the 3rd [PSP the Best] (Nihon Falcom)
[PSP] Eiyuu Densetsu: Sora no Kiseki Set [Super Price Series] (Nihon Falcom)
[PSP] Zwei!! [Super Price Series] (Nihon Falcom)
[PSP] Vantage Master Portable [Super Price Series] (Nihon Falcom)
[PSP] Brandish: The Dark Revenant [Super Price Series] (Nihon Falcom)
[PSP] Suigetsu Portable [Best Edition] (GN Software)

[PS3] Dynasty Warriors: Gundam 3 (Bandai Namco)
[PS3] Call of Duty: Black Ops (Dubbed Edition) (Square Enix)
[PS3] Castlevania: Lord of Shadow (Konami)
[PS3] Umineko no Naku Koro ni: Majo to Suiri no Rinbukyoku (Alchemist)
[PS3] Sports Champions (Move Value Pack) (SCE)
[PS3] Skate 3 (Electronic Arts)
[PS3] Colin McRae: Dirt 2 [Codemasters the Best] (Codemasters)

Looks like PS3 may see a bump next month and PSP will not go down as much.

GT5 numbers are pathetic. Hopefully they will crank up the marketing in the coming weeks or else they are killing this franchise.

 

[dolemite]

Looks like PS3 may see a bump next month and PSP will not go down as much.

GT5 numbers are pathetic. Hopefully they will crank up the marketing in the coming weeks or else they are killing this franchise.

They aren't killing the franchise, it's just that the audience is moving elsewhere.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

Holy destruction ! That's one huge pre-order number _000000_

Whoa.

I hope the PS3 version is as big a success when the time comes too. It certainly looks gorgeous:

http://www.ninokuni.jp/ps3/movie.html

Take that engine, and make us a game based on Kiki's Delivery Service, Studio Ghibli. It would be awesome.

 

[Bebpo]

But this is meaningless because PS3 is now the home for the main Tales games and ToTW:RM3 will probably be the last Tales of on Psp.

Unless the PSP is giong to die in the next 6 months (which looks unlikely when you have HW sales like this week), I think we still have at least another 2-3 fanservice Tales games coming to PSP.

Tales of Vs. is pretty likely to get a sequel like Dissidia is getting. And I wouldn't be surprised if they did a Tales of Fandom vol.3 on PSP. Radiant Mythology 4 is the big "?" though. If it's a mid to late 2012 game it could be PSP, 3DS or even PSP2.

They aren't killing the franchise, it's just that the audience is moving elsewhere.

I'm not sure if this is a joke in reference to the DS rpg argument of the audience moving.

I hope it is, because otherwise I dunno where GT fans have to move! Certainly not to GT PSP!

The GT franchise has been on a slight decline and the fact GT5 is a near kusoge to a lot of the audience sure isn't going to help it. Especially after GT PSP being a letdown as well. GT6 will have to be excellent or the franchise is on its way out in a few more installments.

 

[Dalthien]

Next thing under attention is if Monster Hunter makes PSP suffer from Black/White syndrome, overshaddowing everything else coming to the system. The 3rd Birthday is the next big title after 2 weeks.

It certainly overshadowed everything this week. Over 300k for hardware, and only 3 games in the Top 20. Pretty amazing, actually!

 

[FINALFANTASYDOG]

Especially after GT PSP being a letdown as well. GT6 will have to be excellent or the franchise is on its way out in a few more installments.

Europe?

 

[TheFLYINGManga_Ka]

Wowsers at Monster Hunter!

Also, do you guys think GT5 sold less than expected? I wonder if Sony was projecting Monster Hunter-like sales?

 

[boiled goose]

The GT franchise is pretty much done for as a mega seller i think.
The franchise thrives because of marginal improvements in fidelity, features, and realism with each iteration.

We have hit the point of marginal returns. There is simply not enough new stuff to offer gamers I am afraid.

Tales fanbase on PS3 as expected. PS3 has gotten those types of games and the fanbase should be there for sure.

 

[Bebpo]

Europe?

Well, I was talking about Japan for the purposes of this thread. GT will survive because of worldwide sales, especially in Europe.

But in terms of it being a huge seller in Japan, I think it's definitely going to keep dropping and end up as a 300k mid-tier seller unless they make a really AAA GT game that brings the franchise back in positive word of mouth.

 

[Chris1964]

Well, I was talking about Japan for the purposes of this thread. GT will survive because of worldwide sales, especially in Europe.

But in terms of it being a huge seller in Japan, I think it's definitely going to keep dropping and end up as a 300k mid-tier seller unless they make a really AAA GT game that brings the franchise back in positive word of mouth.

I don't expect big things from US. Europe is the market that will drive the sales.

 

[jman2050]

Are people really so surprised by the Wii bump?

Nintendo owns the holidays, I'm not sure how much that needs to be beat into people's heads before they finally get it.

 

[Grimmy]

So being a GBC remake is an insult now?

The GBC game in question was the first Tales spin-off game, an extension of the Phantasia story line by the two Tales veterans which form the backbone of "Team Destiny", Ishizuka and Ishizawa. Its game design was the foundation of Alfa System's later Tales of the World games. The remake was the first time any significant Tales Studio staff worked on PSP at all, with plenty overlap with the Hearts staff (itself the only time Tales Studio worked on the DS). It obviously wasn't worth it, why should a more "main" Tales game (whatever that means) get any more sales? =P

Of course all that is true (except the "it wasn't worth it" part), but it doesn't change the fact that the original Nakiriki Dungeon sold 139,000 copies on the GBC. Nakiriki Dungeon 3 on the GBA sold around 113,000 copies. So that amount seems to be par for the course for this spinoff series. Nakiriki Dungeon X sold 161,000+ on the PSP, according to Media Create. I don't see why you suddenly think this remake should sell more out of the blue? Either a) the Tales team put their effort on the wrong spinoff series, or b) their expectations were met since it sold slightly better than the previous Nakiriki games. Either way blaming the PSP on the sales is, to me, strange.

 

[Moor-Angol]

Are people really so surprised by the Wii bump?

Nintendo owns the holidays, I'm not sure how much that needs to be beat into people's heads before they finally get it.

Nintendo owns the holidays since 2005....

 

[Kurosaki Ichigo]

Umineko talk, from siliconera:

Nakagawa also fielded a question on sales expectation for Umineko no Naku Koro ni: The Rondo of the Witch and Deduction. Alchemist are expecting to sell 100,000 copies of the game.

Not quite seeing it myself. Someone mentioned Alchemist PS2 Higurashi that did reach 100k, well that title, 8 days before it release (like Umineko right now) had the following points on comgnet preorder ranking:
- Limited Edition 233pt
- Normal Edition 57pt
Umineko is absent from the rankings and #20 is just at 23pt. Who knows, maybe comgnet got the least sexy illustration card so all the fans rather kill themselves than preorder there.

 

[Chris1964]

Nintendo owns the holidays since 2005....

With the exception of PS1/SAT period Nintendo owns the holidays since ever in Japan.

 

[test_account]

With the exception of PS1/SAT period Nintendo owns the holidays since ever in Japan.

Even in the earlier PS2 years? (assuming that we are only talking about home consoles).

 

[Rpgmonkey]

The numbers for Graces are pretty decent, but way more stagnant/consistent than I expected (not sure why I expected more of a difference for this series though). Wonder how much higher the next Tales is going to be over those.

Unless the PSP is giong to die in the next 6 months (which looks unlikely when you have HW sales like this week), I think we still have at least another 2-3 fanservice Tales games coming to PSP.

Tales of Vs. is pretty likely to get a sequel like Dissidia is getting. And I wouldn't be surprised if they did a Tales of Fandom vol.3 on PSP. Radiant Mythology 4 is the big "?" though. If it's a mid to late 2012 game it could be PSP, 3DS or even PSP2.

RM3 is (early Spring?) 2011, making RM4 a 2013, or early 2014 release based on the 2 or so years of development Tales games get, and at that point it's more likely to be a 3DS or PSP2 game. Besides a VS. 2 or something, I'm guessing they're already moving on to the 3DS/PSP2 by now and 2011's going to be the "last hurrah".

Gonna agree about the 3DS following the DS and getting more handheld mothership titles. Just hope they're more like Hearts (which seemed to have sold pretty well overall for something that isn't in the RM series or for the PS3, but I guess no one agrees) and less like Tempest/Innocence.

 

[Chris1964]

Even in the earlier PS2 years? (assuming that we are only talking about home consoles).

I'm not talking only for home consoles but even then GC saw big hw bumps every December.

 

[Kenka]

Are people really so surprised by the Wii bump?

Nintendo owns the holidays, I'm not sure how much that needs to be beat into people's heads before they finally get it.

Yes, but week-over-week rise is pretty sharp, even compared to last years, and especially if you add the fact that no proeminent software was launched. This is the source of the wow all around.

Of course Nintendo owns the Christmas period. The even succeeded in overshadowing the releases of MGS3, Tales of the Abyss and KH2 back in 2005.

 

[legend166]

So what are we blaming the (relative) bomba of GT5 on?

Constant delays? Taking way too long to release since the last one? General franchise fatigue? The game just isn't that good?

I don't know, it's the first Gran Turismo I've ever bought and I'm enjoying it. Seems odd it would be performing this crappy. I thought out of all the first party franchises Sony had, this was the sure fire mega hit.

 

[Bebpo]

So what are we blaming the (relative) bomba of GT5 on?

Constant delays? Taking way too long to release since the last one? General franchise fatigue? The game just isn't that good?

I'd wager all of those factors combined. Although I'd put the huge drop from week 1 -> 2 blame mainly on the "game isn't that good" factor. From what I hear shops are stacking up mountains of used copies already like FFXIII and GT5 doesn't have FFXIII's excuse of "you can beat it in a week and sell it" considering how huge the game is and the online component. So the sellback amount is probably more to do with consumer dissatisfaction, especially if they went in expecting true AAA title because of past games in the series.

 

[test_account]

I'm not talking only for home consoles but even then GC saw big hw bumps every December.

Ah ok, i understand, i thought first that it was only talk about home consoles

 

[schuelma]

Huh. I guess I probably underestimated the Nintendo holiday effect with the Wii. Don't think it will come anywhere close to last year's December, but I really thought this might be the PS3's year, relatively speaking.

Graces does well as expected.

 

[Chris1964]

Huh. I guess I probably underestimated the Nintendo holiday effect with the Wii. Don't think it will come anywhere close to last year's December, but I really thought this might be the PS3's year, relatively speaking.

Graces does well as expected.

This would demand PS3 coming close to last December's numbers.

 

[Kenka]

MC thread should gain momentum has the year passes by, I haven't been that excited for JP numbers since litterally years.

I can't wait to see who's gonna win the YTD wars and who's gonna score high in the next three weeks.

As far as we know, Ni no kuni numbers should exceed 600k first week ?

 

[donny2112]

PSP will not go down as much.

What's special about that line of PSP releases for next week?

PSP's weekly sales will continue to be due to MHP3 and December. As discussed earlier in the thread, weekly PSP new releases aren't going to be impactful on PSP hardware sales the next few weeks at least.

I guess I probably underestimated the Nintendo holiday effect with the Wii.

Yeah, December is a special time for Nintendo systems where you can pretend that the crash in January maybe won't be that bad this year. Same goes for PSP YTD > NDS YTD predictions for 2010. Don't dismiss the holiday effect. :lol

As far as we know, Ni no kuni numbers should exceed 600k first week ?

600K is the first week shipment, and this is a DS game. Could be shortages if it sells close to that the first week...

 

[Chris1964]

MC thread should gain momentum has the year passes by, I haven't been that excited for JP numbers since litterally years.

I can't wait to see who's gonna win the YTD wars and who's gonna score high in the next three weeks.

As far as we know, Ni no kuni numbers should exceed 600k first week ?

Ni no Kuni can sell anything from 0 to 600k.

 

[klee123]

namco decided to make SC 3 ps2 exclusive when SC2 sold best on gamecube.. so yeah.

I think it had to do with an inclusion of a certain Nintendo character more than anything.

 

[Datschge]

Of course all that is true (except the "it wasn't worth it" part), but it doesn't change the fact that the original Nakiriki Dungeon sold 139,000 copies on the GBC. Nakiriki Dungeon 3 on the GBA sold around 113,000 copies. So that amount seems to be par for the course for this spinoff series. Nakiriki Dungeon X sold 161,000+ on the PSP, according to Media Create. I don't see why you suddenly think this remake should sell more out of the blue? Either a) the Tales team put their effort on the wrong spinoff series, or b) their expectations were met since it sold slightly better than the previous Nakiriki games. Either way blaming the PSP on the sales is, to me, strange.

You are changing the topic. The topic was why the PSP is getting no "mothership" Tales title. With NDX it got a title with alike effort by the developer Tales Studio backing it (even though Bandai Namco as usual dropped the balls as a publisher) and the sales are nothing to write home about (I'd sure hope NDX sold better than the game it remade, with like 4 times the staff size...). The RM games are where Tales sales on PSP are at, meanwhile the ports' sales dropped to embarrassing lows, and the bigger single player efforts on both the PSP and DS simply don't compare with their counterparts on consoles. So we are most likely going to see a RM4 on PSP while true "mothership" big budget efforts will stay on PS3, with ports and lower budget experimental stuff going everywhere else.

 

[Parmenides]

Some thoughts:

Capcom is sitting on a gold mine.MHP3rd should develop some steady legs,

LINK 1

so PSP may outsell NDS in Japan.

LINK 2

It doesn't matter.PSP 2 will have a very hard time competing with the 3DS.



GT5P series had legs,

LINK 3

but Gran Turismo 5 can become one of the most front-loaded games…

LINK 4

everywhere.

LINK 5

Maybe GT5 will be the worst selling GT game. Too many complaints, mixed reviews …Kaz should be worried : bad word of mouth reputation can be acquired very easily, and it is very difficult to get rid of.



Wii may outsell PS3 in Japan.

LINK 6

Again, It doesn't matter.Tales of Graces F proves proves once again that the Nintendo Wii is inhospitable for third parties.

LINK 7

Sony has gained a competitive advantage over its competitor.In fact, PS3 most likely will become the market leader (by default),when it comes to third party software sales.

LINK 8

LINK 9

Given the fact that Sony has an excellent track record when it comes to exploiting,Nintendo's weakness,I'm sure Hiroshi Kawano is quietly working on some big deals. Everyone in Japan knows that the PS3 port of a JRPG released for the Nintendo Wii would outsell (and destroy) the original.