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[FINALFANTASYDOG]

So what are we blaming the (relative) bomba of GT5 on?

Constant delays? Taking way too long to release since the last one? General franchise fatigue? The game just isn't that good?

I don't know, it's the first Gran Turismo I've ever bought and I'm enjoying it. Seems odd it would be performing this crappy. I thought out of all the first party franchises Sony had, this was the sure fire mega hit.

Just of note: some bloggers pointed out the fact that part of the front-loading can be blamed to the "Limited edition"(basically if you buy the first shipment you got the limited edition) thus instead of waiting and buying it, everyone just bought it in the first week.

 

[Grimmy]

You are changing the topic. The topic was why the PSP is getting no "mothership" Tales title. With NDX it got a title with alike effort by the developer Tales Studio backing it (even though Bandai Namco as usual dropped the balls as a publisher) and the sales are nothing to write home about (I'd sure hope NDX sold better than the game it remade, with like 4 times the staff size...). The RM games are where Tales sales on PSP are at, meanwhile the ports' sales dropped to embarrassing lows, and the bigger single player efforts on both the PSP and DS simply don't compare with their counterparts on consoles. So we are most likely going to see a RM4 on PSP while true "mothership" big budget efforts will stay on PS3, with ports and lower budget experimental stuff going everywhere else.

How am I changing the topic? If you see my post above, I'm challenging the notion that Nakiriki Dungeon X is somehow a "mothership" game suddenly. If they spent 4x the staff to remake a game that originally sold 139,000 copies, packaged with a game they milked to death already, and somehow expect to get much, much bigger sales, then they are fools. A remake of a spinoff IS a spinoff and not suddenly a mothership game - regardless of budget and even quality, and I don't see how Namco could change this perception, even with a ton of marketing. As I stated above, a) the Tales team put their effort on the wrong spinoff series.

And even their PSP audience got sick of Namco milking the series by releasing PS2 port after PS2 port - I can't blame them for the "embarrassing lows" of those port sales. Just look at Bepbo's Tales collection - even such a big fan like him didn't bother getting the Tales of Rebirth and Tales of Destiny 2 PSP ports. Somehow blaming the PSP audience as "not being there for a mothership-like game" is disingenuous, and I stand by it.

 

[onken]

Kinda sad that ugly-ass Graces can sell as well as the gorgeous Vesperia, also poor GT5.

Also seriously why has there not been a PS3 version of a Monster Hunter game? Really thought they'd have at least announced a Tri port by now.

 

[antonz]

Kinda sad that ugly-ass Graces can sell as well as the gorgeous Vesperia, also poor GT5.

Also seriously why has there not been a PS3 version of a Monster Hunter game? Really thought they'd have at least announced a Tri port by now.

Its probably safe to say Nintendo stealing 3 from the PS3 means it will never appear on the PS3

 

[_Alkaline_]

Jesus, the PSP. :lol

Sony really must be thankful for Japan, because they're the only thing keeping that system alive. Well, Japan and Monster Hunter, but those go hand in hand. That franchise is such a beast.

What is the future of Monster Hunter? Would the 3DS pose itself as the suitable platform for it or will it remain a Sony-centric franchise?

 

[cvxfreak]

Jesus, the PSP. :lol

Sony really must be thankful for Japan, because they're the only thing keeping that system alive. Well, Japan and Monster Hunter, but those go hand in hand. That franchise is such a beast.

What is the future of Monster Hunter? Would the 3DS pose itself as the suitable platform for it or will it remain a Sony-centric franchise?

How has Monster Hunter been a "Sony-centric" franchise? It sells tons on the PSP, but the series also has a history with Nintendo. I'd bet $1 million that there would have been a Monster Hunter on DS if that platform could handle an entry. A 3DS entry is inevitable, I say.

 

[marc^o^]

How has Monster Hunter been a "Sony-centric" franchise? It sells tons on the PSP, but the series also has a history with Nintendo. I'd bet $1 million that there would have been a Monster Hunter on DS if that platform could handle an entry. A 3DS entry is inevitable, I say.

Of course, and that's the case for lots of franchises beyond Monster Hunter.

 

[onken]

Its probably safe to say Nintendo stealing 3 from the PS3 means it will never appear on the PS3

All we can do is guess at the reasons why it shifted platforms. Nintendo aren't really the sort of company that money-hats for exclusivity, so the safe bet is to assume it was Capcom's decision after they saw the explosion of the Wii (and the lure of cheaper dev costs was always there).

But here's the thing, we see time and time again 3rd party titles doing better on PS3, and especially since MH exploded on the Sony handheld, it seems logic to at least test the waters on PS3 even if it is at this late stage. There is literally no way they would lose money on such an experiment (especially if it was a Tri port) so Capcom really have nothing to lose.

And also, what the fuck are Sony doing amongst all this? They must have some of arrangement going on, considering the PSP only exists thanks to Monster Hunter, why aren't they on Capcom's case to get a PS3 version out?

 

[_Alkaline_]

How has Monster Hunter been a "Sony-centric" franchise? It sells tons on the PSP, but the series also has a history with Nintendo. I'd bet $1 million that there would have been a Monster Hunter on DS if that platform could handle an entry. A 3DS entry is inevitable, I say.

You know what I mean. Sure G and Tri were on Wii (Tri obviously being much more significant) but the majority of games have been on Sony consoles and its greatest dominance by far has been on the PSP. I realise that the DS probably wasn't capable of delivering the kind of Monster Hunter experience that would appease its fanbase but consequently it's virtually become a 'Sony franchise' in the same sense that Final Fantasy did for a while.

You would certainly think the 3DS will get a pretty comprehensive entry though. My guess is that the 3DS will receive its own series akin to the Portable series on the PSP, with the Portable series itself staying on the PSP2. I'll probably be completely wrong though. Have Capcom had any comment on it?

 

[donny2112]

PS3 most likely will become the market leader (by default),when it comes to third party software sales.

Eh? It already is for consoles.

It really shows the ineptitude, too, of third parties that they never cultivated a fertile ground on the Wii for traditional games. Nintendo could've done more to encourage development on the platform, also. Tons of missed opportunities for Wii this generation. Oh, well. Hopefully Wii 2 will correct a lot of that like 3DS seems to be trying to do.

 

[Kenka]

No early 1st day numbers for Ni no kuni ?

 

[onken]

No early 1st day numbers for Ni no kuni ?

lol it's barely 5pm release day, little bit early for numbers don't you think?

 

[Ogrekiller]

One wonders why Capcom has not made a full fledged MH game for smartphones. (No, MHi and that diary junk does not count.)

If MS had cut a deal ala GTA episodes with Capcom to make a real MH for WP7 it could work wonders.

 

[Defuser]

One wonders why Capcom has not made a full fledged MH game for smartphones. (No, MHi and that diary junk does not count.)

???

 

[Busaiku]

Do we even get first day numbers anymore?

 

[Kenka]

lol it's barely 5pm release day, little bit early for numbers don't you think?

Well that sucks. How many million-sellers does the DS have right now ? With 600k pre-orders, it is sure that Ni no kuni will knock at the club's door in a week or two.

Do we even get first day numbers anymore?

Same question I asked and the answer is : the day is not over yet.

 

[duckroll]

With 600k pre-orders, it is sure that Ni no kuni will knock at the club's door in a week or two.

600k pre-orders? Where did you get that? :lol

 

[onken]

Well that sucks. How many million-sellers does the DS have right now ? With 600k pre-orders, it is sure that Ni no kuni will knock at the club's door in a week or two.

Firstly, what sucks? Secondly, I don't think NNK hitting a million is guaranteed at all (though it's certainly possible, but not within in a week or two).

600k pre-orders? Where did you get that? :lol

Clearly he mixed up the shipment number.

 

[Busaiku]

No, my question was asking in general.
I believe we no longer get first day numbers from anyone.

 

[duckroll]

No, my question was asking in general.
I believe we no longer get first day numbers from anyone.

Unless a publisher decides to put out a press release, no we don't get leaked first day numbers anymore.

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

First week?

[WII] Tales of Graces (Bandai Namco) {10/12/09} - 143.309 / 143.309
[PS3] Tales of Graces F (Bandai Namco) {02/12/10} - 215.187 / NEW

In terms of quantity, the game has an extended epilogue or something, makes the game twice as longer or something.

Oh wow, Graces PS3 did much better. I was probably thinking of the Wii version's Ltd.

Despite the fact that the PS3 version launched in much more favourable circumstances (It didn't have to directly compete with both FF13 and NSMBWii in the same 2 weeks, which really killed the Wii version's chances) it does seem to imply that the fanbase is now with the PS3 (Tales of Vesperia is no doubt to thank for that)

 

[cvxfreak]

You know what I mean. Sure G and Tri were on Wii (Tri obviously being much more significant) but the majority of games have been on Sony consoles and its greatest dominance by far has been on the PSP. I realise that the DS probably wasn't capable of delivering the kind of Monster Hunter experience that would appease its fanbase but consequently it's virtually become a 'Sony franchise' in the same sense that Final Fantasy did for a while.

You would certainly think the 3DS will get a pretty comprehensive entry though. My guess is that the 3DS will receive its own series akin to the Portable series on the PSP, with the Portable series itself staying on the PSP2. I'll probably be completely wrong though. Have Capcom had any comment on it?

The thing is, I don't think we can tie Monster Hunter's success specifically to Sony. I also think the ties to the PSP are a little bit overstated. The conditions for the expansion of Portable's popularity, from my perspective here in Japan, are far more rooted in culture and societal realities here than they are because of the series' ties with Sony. Nor has Capcom been shy about spreading the love. It just so happens that the PSP is the most ideal home for portable MH right now. That can certainly change once the 3DS comes out. The PSP2 can also be a viable home for future iterations, but with the 3DS almost surely to outsell the PSP2 and being more than capable of handling the series, it makes sense to put it on the 3DS as well.

If Capcom's bringing TWO RE games to the 3DS... then I'd say that MH is a given. It just makes sense.

 

[jman2050]

One wonders why Capcom has not made a full fledged MH game for smartphones. (No, MHi and that diary junk does not count.)

Because Capcom actually likes money?

 

[Ogrekiller]

???

I said MHi doesn't count.

Because Capcom actually likes money?

All the more then they should do it. Face it, they ported Dead rising, RE4 and SF4 to the Iphone and they would pass up the chance to port their most profitable portable franchise to phones that are almost as powerful as the PSP?

 

[jman2050]

All the more then they should do it.

How does spending big bucks on a smartphone game make you money?

 

[duckroll]

MHP controls bad enough on the PSP as it is. It would be virtually unplayable on phones.

 

[Jonnyram]

with the 3DS almost surely to outsell the PSP2

Why do you say this? The PSP2 is a completely unknown entity at this point.

 

[Ogrekiller]

MHP controls bad enough on the PSP as it is. It would be virtually unplayable on phones.

If they can port SF4 to the iphone I'm pretty sure they don't give a damn about controls. besides, any camera setup they can cook up can't be worse than what they have for the psp.

How does spending big bucks on a smartphone game make you money?

DLC and paid updates man. In any case Epic did it and that's why I said I can see MS pulling a GTA stunt on them.

 

[cvxfreak]

Why do you say this? The PSP2 is a completely unknown entity at this point.

Well, that's also a good point. Without Pokemon and Mario though, it'd be hard for the opposite to happen.

 

[Pureauthor]

Why do you say this? The PSP2 is a completely unknown entity at this point.

No it's not. We know it's the successor to the PSP. That's something of a plus in Japan and something of a minus everywhere else.

Not to say any setbacks can't be overcome (and similarly, advantages can be squandered), but it's not a blank slate.

 

[cws]

Why do you say this?

Its a Nintendo Handheld, successor to the DS, is releasing first and will get supported by pretty much every important 3rd Party in Japan.

 

[marc^o^]

Why do you say this? The PSP2 is a completely unknown entity at this point.

I have no doubt PSP2 will be able to compete in its own way against 3DS technology and its dual screen, touchscreen, 3D creen, 2 cameras for AR games, gyroscope, analog stick.

PSP2 will have much more trouble fighting this:

DS Brand. Time to market. 1st party franchises.
And new: big 3rd party franchises.

 

[Kenka]

Clearly he mixed up the shipment number.

600k pre-orders? Where did you get that? :lol

Christ ! I was corrected twice in the previous page and still didn't hit. :-(

Yeah, way too optimistic :-( NES has 41 million-sellers right ? There is no way the DS catches up ?

 

[STG]

PSP2 will have much more trouble fighting this:

DS Brand. Time to market. 1st party franchises.
And new: big 3rd party franchises.

this
and I also expect the psp2 to be much much more expensive than a 3ds

 

[BishopLamont]

Why do you say this? The PSP2 is a completely unknown entity at this point.

The PSP failed to outsell the DS at the start of the generation when the playing field was pretty leveled, I don't see how it will manage to do it this time round.

 

[Seraphis Cain]

Wow, can't believe the new Naruto Gekitou Ninja Taisen (GNT Special) didn't even get on the Top 20. That's surprising, as the series has usually been pretty popular in Japan.

 

[duckroll]

Wow, can't believe the new Naruto Gekitou Ninja Taisen (GNT Special) didn't even get on the Top 20. That's surprising, as the series has usually been pretty popular in Japan.

It's a Wii game and it isn't published by Nintendo, I'm not sure what you expected.

 

[hsukardi]

The PSP failed to outsell the DS at the start of the generation when the playing field was pretty leveled, I don't see how it will manage to do it this time round.

PSP and DS were very neck and neck, actually the PSP was in the lead..

Until Nintendogs.
Brain Training.
Bla bla.

Whether 3DS can come out with such heavy hitting software at launch again is a question.. Of course, Nintendo will very likely be profitable again given how their evergreen franchises like Mario perform insanely well.

 

[AniHawk]

It's a Wii game and it isn't published by Nintendo, I'm not sure what you expected.

Monster Hunter Tri sold a million copies, why can't this one.

 

[Seraphis Cain]

It's a Wii game and it isn't published by Nintendo, I'm not sure what you expected.

Yeah, you're right actually. I checked the first week sales for the previous game in the series, and it only hit 21 it's first week. Guess it's been slipping for a while now. :lol

 

[BishopLamont]

PSP and DS were very neck and neck, actually the PSP was in the lead..

Until Nintendogs.
Brain Training.
Bla bla.

Whether 3DS can come out with such heavy hitting software at launch again is a question.. Of course, Nintendo will very likely be profitable again given how their evergreen franchises like Mario perform insanely well.

Well yeah thats my point...The DS had nothing and the PSP still didn't outsell it, once again, it didn't, PSP was never in the lead. Now look at the situation with the 3DS, strong first party, strong third party, PSP2 most likely will come later than the 3DS. How do you think the PSP will outsell it?

 

[gofreak]

The PSP failed to outsell the DS at the start of the generation when the playing field was pretty leveled, I don't see how it will manage to do it this time round.

You mean, when there was a 66% premium on the PSP's price over DS?

I wonder if there'll be a similar difference this time around (after 599, who knows, there could be! :lol)

I also do wonder though if 3DS will emerge as the best device and platform for 'the big third party franchises' Nintendo has new found access to and that will apparently be so key in 3DS success. Or more importantly if it will be perceived as the best place to play those games, or one that's good enough, vs what Sony brings.

I also wonder about the relationship between the DS brand and the lighter gamer, and if it's as strong as it was before.

I don't wonder so much about whether 3DS will outsell PSP2 - I mean, I think that's fairly obvious, more starkly in a global context - but I'm not sure everything is so pervasively rosy red apples for Nintendo as some think.

 

[BishopLamont]

You mean, when there was a 66% premium on the PSP's price over DS?

I wonder if there'll be a similar difference this time around (after 599, who knows, there could be! :lol)

I also do wonder though if 3DS will emerge as the best device and platform for 'the big third party franchises' Nintendo has new found access to and that will apparently be so key in 3DS success. Or more importantly if it will be perceived as the best place to play those games, or one that's good enough, vs what Sony brings.

I also wonder about the relationship between the DS brand and the lighter gamer, and if it's as strong as it was before.

I don't wonder so much about whether 3DS will outsell PSP2 - I mean, I think that's fairly obvious, more starkly in a global context - but I'm not sure everything is so pervasively rosy red apples for Nintendo as some think.

Yes during the time when everyone was on PSP's dick, gamers and developers alike.

 

[Spiegel]

Yes during the time when everyone was on PSP's dick, gamers and developers alike.

DS and PSP had a comparable amount of third party support in Japan in the first year and DS had a much bigger first party support. DS even got a new original DQ spinoff.

The first original S-E game on PSP was released in September 2007.

 

[BishopLamont]

DS and PSP had a comparable amount of third party support in Japan in the first year and DS had a much bigger first party support. DS even got a new original DQ spinoff.

The first original S-E game on PSP was released in September 2007.

There's no doubt some of the PSP titles would have been pushed back in favor of more DS games once the DS sales skyrocketed, you can't deny the hype the PSP had back then, CC was announced fairly early IIRC. It certainly deserved it though, the DS was gimmicky and butt ugly placed next to it and it was a "PS2 in your hands". Either way, we've been shown time and time again price is meaningless when brought up with disregard for anything else.

 

[marc^o^]

I also wonder about the relationship between the DS brand and the lighter gamer, and if it's as strong as it was before.

Your recent posts show your conviction lighter gamers won't buy portable consoles anymore. i wonder who is the lighter gamer according to you: does it exclude people who buy Nintendogs, Mario, Mario Kart and Mii titles? Are you referring to the soccer mom market? And if so how big is this lighter game market in the overall picture?

 

[Jonnyram]

And new: big 3rd party franchises.

There's nothing new about big 3rd party franchises on a Nintendo portable. DS already had DQ and FF, and they don't come much bigger than that in Japan, though MH may change that.

I only brought it up because DS didn't explode until the Touch Generations came along, but 3DS doesn't seem to have anything of a similar ilk. There is no doubt that 3DS will go along way on its 3D merits, but what comes after that? Touch generations captured a brand new audience, which is vitally important for Nintendo hardware each generation.

I don't know why, but I feel Sony are the underdogs now, which could work well for them. They lost a lot of pride with the PSP and PS3, because they weren't the instant success everyone had assumed after PS2 monopolised the industry for years. But now both platforms are flourishing.

 

[BishopLamont]

There's nothing new about big 3rd party franchises on a Nintendo portable. DS already had DQ and FF, and they don't come much bigger than that in Japan, though MH may change that.

I only brought it up because DS didn't explode until the Touch Generations came along, but 3DS doesn't seem to have anything of a similar ilk. There is no doubt that 3DS will go along way on its 3D merits, but what comes after that? Touch generations captured a brand new audience, which is vitally important for Nintendo hardware each generation.

I don't know why, but I feel Sony are the underdogs now, which could work well for them. They lost a lot of pride with the PSP and PS3, because they weren't the instant success everyone had assumed after PS2 monopolised the industry for years. But now both platforms are flourishing.

Being the underdogs in the console wars doesn't give you any advantage, doesn't work that way here.

You ask whats after 3D for the 3DS? Well whats after 3D for the PSP2? Do you expect Sony to out-innovate Nintendo here? Nintendo will win by default solely for the fact that Sony's first party is a joke compared to Nintendo's.

I think this has less to do with Sony being the underdog and more to do with you rooting for the underdog.

 

[gofreak]

Your recent posts show your conviction lighter gamers won't buy portable consoles anymore.

I'm not saying that. I think the market might be subject to shrinkage though. I think it may be in the process of being disrupted, as there'll be increasing overlap between those users and smartphone owners, and I think that type of user may be completely satisfied by the gaming available on smartphones, and a lot happier about the cost of it. I don't think that market will disappear, I just wonder if it will be as strong.

Since this is a media create thread, in the context of Japan specifically, I'm not sure if smart devices are as hot there as they appear to be elsewhere and if or how it's affecting 'lighter' gaming habits?

i wonder who is the lighter gamer according to you: does it exclude people who buy Nintendogs, Mario, Mario Kart and Mii titles? Are you referring to the soccer mom market? And if so how big is this lighter game market in the overall picture?

I don't know how big the lighter market is. I do think that Nintendo probably wouldn't have driven DS as high as it has without it though. Also, on the question of loyalty to Nintendo IP , in other contexts in the past people have never seemed to 'miss' Nintendo's IP so much that they have to buy a Nintendo machine just for it. Maybe it's different now, I'm not sure, but even if it was, if people who converted to the smartphone model of gaming came back to Nintendo machines just for Nintendo IP, I'm not sure they'd spend as much time or money as they had before i.e. it would still be a loss of share for Nintendo.

I'm not offering any answers here, I'm just asking the question if the relationship is and will be as hot as it was over the next few years.

 

[BoilersFan23]

Looks like PS3 may see a bump next month and PSP will not go down as much.

GT5 numbers are pathetic. Hopefully they will crank up the marketing in the coming weeks or else they are killing this franchise.

GT series just doesn't have the same impact it does in Japan anymore (realistic racers just aren't as popular). I could already tell that based on how GT PSP did. Hot Shots Golf 5 sold no where near as well on PS3 as it did on PS2. While the first Hot Shots Golf: Open Tee performed good on PSP (not great), sequel did way worse if I remember correctly. Hot Shots Tennis on PS2 did very well, but the much better PSP one didn't perform so great. Most Sony first party games just aren't that big in Japan like the PS1 days. TBH, I was only expecting 500k copies for GT5 on PS3. To me, if it sells over 500k, that's pretty good since I can't think of many PS3 games to top that amount.

I don't think the decline has much to do with GT series quality, more so with realistic racers not being as big as they once were.