Allan Holdsworth
Member
Not this again. LM is not a western game to the buying public.
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Media Create Sales: Week 11, 2013 (Mar 11 - Mar 17)
- Thread starter Chris1964
- Start date
Not this again. LM is not a western game to the buying public.
What's the context? Is this an English or Japanese situation? Because the only reason I could think of that you would ask that question in this thread is because you're thinking about the Japanese versions. Unfortunately, a hunch isn't enough for me to answer your question.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
English.
But nevermind that, this is not the appropriate place to ask it, I apologize.
not only has it just been released
1. It has numerous big games announced for it that can push sales.
2. Wii U may be in a diminished market, but Vita exists in a dying market. Sony is swimming up stream at times trying to keep their handheld division relevant.
3. Nintendo can't afford to let Wii U fail, Sony can't afford to make Vita successful. They've already lost a lot of money on it, and any further money hats, advertising, etc is likely sunk cost.
the list goes on. if you can't distinguish the difference in situations, it's no wonder you aren't concerned about Vita's future.
BishopLamont
Banned
Doesn't change the fact that it is a western developed game. Which is what makes the game sell, the key to a game selling great world wide is to mask whether its western or eastern, it becomes universal and everyone can enjoy it. Its why Nintendo games sell so well worldwide, not many developers can achieve this feat.
You mean blablabla dumb, useless comment post?
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Now you are just plugging your ears with your fingers.
Proper explanation was given in why what we have seen thus far from the short honeymoon period due to the one off price cut/bundles isn't enough and you choose to see it as a doomed post.
StreetsAhead
Member
At this point those crying out at perceived 'doom' posts are just as annoying as the Nintendo fans who did/do the same things.
The Vita has played its cards and while it's not been a complete failure the last two week, the price cut/SS combo has certainly not been the savior some were hoping for, at least not yet with no signs that it's going to. People claiming that 30K will be the new baseline for Vita, based on the release schedule, are kidding themselves. There's still time for games to appear to give it a healthy life, but until then the prognosis isn't good.
To tie it back into shinra's post, this is the difference between Wii U and Vita. Wii U only has 2 first party games, and only 3 games have sold anything of note. While there may be market overlap between current owners and future titles, it's simply too early to say that because it does still have its big cards to play, where as Vita has played all the cards it's had to show so far. Short of a new model or another big (maybe even 1st party) exclusive people care about, the game has pretty much run course. Wii U may continue to fail. It may never hit 2 million units, but there's hope because it's only just begun, while Vita has had 2 good weeks after almost a year of death.
MrCookiepants
Member
This makes me happy. I always thought LM1 was an underrated classic that had huge potential. Looks like I was right.
pieatorium
Member
05./02. [PSV] Soul Sacrifice # <ACT> (Sony Computer Entertainment) {2013.03.07} (¥5.980) - 29.121 / 121.517 (-68%)
20./13. [PSV] Senran Kagura Shinovi Versus: Otome Shoujotachi no Shoumei # <ACT> (Marvelous AQL) {2013.02.28} (¥6.980) - 6.902 / 118.364 (-60%)
StreetsAhead
Member
Pretty sure they were talking about for the rest of the unreleased games for 2013.
electroplankton
Banned
I was talking about the release schedule of 2013.
This is inflammatory nonsense.
It isn't. Soul Sacrifice did as well as could be expected for a new Sony IP on a struggling platform. Only people that expected a Monster Hunter killer are disappointed. The device has also held its sales better than many expected, for now.
pieatorium
Member
electroplankton
Banned
Yep, future games.
BishopLamont
Banned
Oh regarding SE and DQX, if they're disappointed by the results then they must be fools or liars. Why weren't there enough servers when the game launched then?
pieatorium
Member
They were happy at launch and said so repeatedly. That article was from February where presumably subscriptions have fallen off.
BishopLamont
Banned
Fair enough, last I heard subs were fairly high, we'll see when SE meets.
Do we have any historical evidence that otaku games can't help stabilize a platform from going down?
as I remember, on the release week of Demon Gaze & Monster Monpiece <Media Create Sales: Week 4, 2013 (Jan 21 - Jan 27)>
while they didn't push the vita sales significantly, they manged to stabilize and it held its position. It was the only platform at that week in media create charts which didn't go down in a slow week.
sechsterangriff
Member
Xbox 360 in Japan?
Soul Sacrifice Double Pack is in Media Create Top 30:
21./00. [PSP] Frontier Gate: Boost+ <RPG> (Konami) {2013.03.14} (¥3.990)
22./03. [PSP] Uta no Prince-Sama: All Star # <ACT> (Broccoli) {2013.03.07} (¥6.090)
23./23. [3DS] Mario Kart 7 <RCE> (Nintendo) {2011.12.01} (¥4.800)
24./15. [PSV] Phantasy Star Online 2: Special Package <RPG> (Sega) {2013.02.28} (¥5.229)
25./17. [PS3] Macross 30: Ginga o Tsunagu Utagoe # <RPG> (Bandai Namco Games) {2013.02.28} (¥8.380)
26./25. [3DS] Taiko no Tatsujin: Chibi Dragon to Fushigi na Orb <ACT> (Bandai Namco Games) {2012.07.12} (¥5.040)
27./24. [3DS] Touch Detective: Nameko Shigeru <PZL> (Success) {2013.02.28} (¥3.990)
28./18. [PSP] Shining Ark <RPG> (Sega) {2013.02.28} (¥6.279)
29./26. [3DS] Paper Mario: Sticker Star <ADV> (Nintendo) {2012.12.06} (¥4.800)
30./10. [PSV] Soul Sacrifice: "United Front" Double Pack <ACT> (Sony Computer Entertainment) {2013.03.07} (¥7.980)
Top 30
3DS - 12
PS3 - 9
PSV - 5
PSP – 4
http://www.gamer.ne.jp/news/201303210002/
21./00. [PSP] Frontier Gate: Boost+ <RPG> (Konami) {2013.03.14} (¥3.990)
22./03. [PSP] Uta no Prince-Sama: All Star # <ACT> (Broccoli) {2013.03.07} (¥6.090)
23./23. [3DS] Mario Kart 7 <RCE> (Nintendo) {2011.12.01} (¥4.800)
24./15. [PSV] Phantasy Star Online 2: Special Package <RPG> (Sega) {2013.02.28} (¥5.229)
25./17. [PS3] Macross 30: Ginga o Tsunagu Utagoe # <RPG> (Bandai Namco Games) {2013.02.28} (¥8.380)
26./25. [3DS] Taiko no Tatsujin: Chibi Dragon to Fushigi na Orb <ACT> (Bandai Namco Games) {2012.07.12} (¥5.040)
27./24. [3DS] Touch Detective: Nameko Shigeru <PZL> (Success) {2013.02.28} (¥3.990)
28./18. [PSP] Shining Ark <RPG> (Sega) {2013.02.28} (¥6.279)
29./26. [3DS] Paper Mario: Sticker Star <ADV> (Nintendo) {2012.12.06} (¥4.800)
30./10. [PSV] Soul Sacrifice: "United Front" Double Pack <ACT> (Sony Computer Entertainment) {2013.03.07} (¥7.980)
Top 30
3DS - 12
PS3 - 9
PSV - 5
PSP – 4
http://www.gamer.ne.jp/news/201303210002/
ok, thanks, I'll look into it.
but I was thinking that portables are the preferred platforms for otaku. so the story could be different.
Pachterballs
Banned
no. 8 and it sells sub 20k thats urgh. japan is such a small market.
resurrection? with those sales. Back to the grave.
That no.2 game. Is it available as DD on JAPpsn? Would be silly to lose sales to vita owners if they didn't do it
vita doing good. 150k in 3 weeks so far.
michaelius
Banned
Proper explanation = post stating that Soul Sacrafice was last system seller for Vita ?
Don't make me laugh.
We know nothing about Q3/Q4 releases - a lot will depend on what Sony managed to secure for this period.
shinra-bansho
Member
My recollection may be failing me, but I'm pretty sure there were time of death statements being issued for Vita around now.
As a question to all: What would be considered a turnaround for Wii U anyway?
---
Well, someone just ignored the point entirely didn't they? Again, it's not an implausible proposition that people who would buy a system for Mario Kart U would be the same people who are already buying the system for NSMBU.
Home consoles are the weakening market in Japan - so the Wii U holds no real advantage in this regard. In the West, handhelds in general are struggling to remain relevant.
I'm not sure what the bolded is supposed to imply? That Nintendo would eat multi-year multi-billion dollar losses to ensure its success? I doubt that. As for Vita I've said before I don't think Sony have the means or the will to make Vita a success.
I'm not sure why one would worry about a dead platform's future, when in the grand scheme it has none.
StreetsAhead
Member
Of the announced titles, which he was talking about, he is not wrong.
thehypocrite
Member
Those people complaing about the release schedule for the Vita need to hold it, in these past few days we have seen several game announcements, so there's still a willingness to publish software for the machine, it's also disingenuous in my opinion to require that every announced game needs to be an apparent system seller, as that something only the market can decide.
Is Vita in a worst position than before? no.
Is it saved? No.
Has their prospects improved? Yes.
Has it shown that can move certain type of software and make money for Publishers/Developers? Yes.
So I do expect more games will be announced for it, however the reality is that Vita in their current situation would not have a baseline of over 15k without the appropiate software, now is up to Sony to sell the platform to developers in Japan, they have the fortune of offerring PS3/PSV combo option which would allow Vita to received some level of support, but the same nature of the offer will stifle the amount of hardware that it can push on the Vita. however it can give it a decent catalog that would increase the userbase slowly.
Also Sony still has the redesign option open and the PS4 mobile machine to use, by itself, it won't save the system but it could help it somewhat. On the software front they still have GT, but I doubt that the strenght of the franchise would be conducive to a system seller, unless they make it more a local multiplayer Drive club with your friends kind of game and looking at how insular they are (PD) I doubt they'll do it. I do think they may have Claphanz working on their Animal Crossing/Life simulator game that would be announced for the holidays as it makes sense to me, but I think the optimistic scenario is that after all these cards are played Vita may have a 25k baseline if they are somewhat effective.
Is Vita in a worst position than before? no.
Is it saved? No.
Has their prospects improved? Yes.
Has it shown that can move certain type of software and make money for Publishers/Developers? Yes.
So I do expect more games will be announced for it, however the reality is that Vita in their current situation would not have a baseline of over 15k without the appropiate software, now is up to Sony to sell the platform to developers in Japan, they have the fortune of offerring PS3/PSV combo option which would allow Vita to received some level of support, but the same nature of the offer will stifle the amount of hardware that it can push on the Vita. however it can give it a decent catalog that would increase the userbase slowly.
Also Sony still has the redesign option open and the PS4 mobile machine to use, by itself, it won't save the system but it could help it somewhat. On the software front they still have GT, but I doubt that the strenght of the franchise would be conducive to a system seller, unless they make it more a local multiplayer Drive club with your friends kind of game and looking at how insular they are (PD) I doubt they'll do it. I do think they may have Claphanz working on their Animal Crossing/Life simulator game that would be announced for the holidays as it makes sense to me, but I think the optimistic scenario is that after all these cards are played Vita may have a 25k baseline if they are somewhat effective.
michaelius
Banned
Which is why it's hard to take him seriously - because month ago we had no idea what will be launching in June for Vita or most other platforms. In fact we still are missing a lot of release dates.
Sony themselves might have two 100k sellers for this period - Clap hanz only made a port of Mingolf to PS3 since Vita launch, and Sony Bend haven't shown anythin since same date (UGA is 100k seller in Japan IIRC).
Soul Sacrifice really missed the target it barely sold 150k units in 2 weeks and with a 70% decline it seems to be just a normal release instead of a supposed big system-seller, for a game as marketed and positioned as it was it´s a disappointment. It is one of the most successful games for PSV in Japan but that´s not exactly a big achievment so far. Even an enhanced Persona port and Miku game which sold under Segas own expectations sold more so far. I honestly can´t understand how users can get mad about stating the obvious like last week. Right now the only possibility to turn it around is if it will have decent legs.
The only noteworthy new announcement in the past weeks was FFX-2 and looking at how it is sold seperately unlike the PS3 version which includes both FFX games, the PS3 version looks even better than before the announcement. The other announcements have been obscure niche games so I doubt they will have any noteworthy impact on sales. Therefore he was correct they basically played all their open cards only GE2(PSP port) and FFX a game that is multiplat and just became even less attractive than the PS3 version this week. Like another poster pointed out he wasn´t talking about some "secrect not yet announced projects" but about known games.
UnchartedGA barely sold over 100k units in Japan even with the systemlaunch bonus advantage so it´s not exactly a system seller in Japan.
The only noteworthy new announcement in the past weeks was FFX-2 and looking at how it is sold seperately unlike the PS3 version which includes both FFX games, the PS3 version looks even better than before the announcement. The other announcements have been obscure niche games so I doubt they will have any noteworthy impact on sales. Therefore he was correct they basically played all their open cards only GE2(PSP port) and FFX a game that is multiplat and just became even less attractive than the PS3 version this week. Like another poster pointed out he wasn´t talking about some "secrect not yet announced projects" but about known games.
UnchartedGA barely sold over 100k units in Japan even with the systemlaunch bonus advantage so it´s not exactly a system seller in Japan.
Nobody from SE said subscriptions have fallen off. They also said they were making steady progress, so they still wanted more than they already achieved (which is also obvious from the free one week trial campaign at Tsutaya). The article also said they are taking a hit from server costs.
test_account
XP-39C²
Didnt Miyamoto also have a big influence on how the game was developed? I always thought that "western developed" were more about the style of the game, not necessarily that is just about people living in the west who does the coding, artwork, music etc. (who is composing the music by the way?).
It was released yesterday (March 20th).
Together with the PS3, right?
pieatorium
Member
You don't take server cost hits in the mmo game if your subscriptions are going well, unless it's short term to cover far more than your expected load which if it was the reason they would have talked about it.
test_account
XP-39C²
Yep, both the PS3 and the Vita version were released yesterday
redblack85
Member
PS Vita version console in stock on amazon.jp,up to #16(red) #20(Blue) #53(black 3G) #58 and #85(Silver Wi-fi+ 3G and Wi-fi) and #72 (black Wi-fi)
Okay but how do you interpret the only quote in the article, the one saying they were making steady progress? That wouldn't imply that subscriptions have suddenly fallen off but that the install base isn't increasing quite as quickly/much as they had hoped.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=47549552&postcount=1
Btw, last confirmed number of 400000 subscribers staying with the game for more than 3 months is from November, the first time this was even possible. Shortly afterwards the Tsutaya campaign was launched and the game still is selling.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
The article also implied subscriptions were steady though. Which is why it made little sense, DQX had the best debut for a SE MMO by a huge margin (quadrupling FFXI's debut, utterly destroying FFXIV) and we know the game already made back dev costs even. The read was then that maybe DQX wasn't the even larger hit that SE may have been expecting (which doesn't really jive with needing to add servers like they did) or that wires were crossed in reporting and that MMOs in general were being pointed to for lower results rather than DQX specifically.
Again, better to wait for SE's actual comments on it than take everything on MSN's interpretation.
Yep, both the PS3 and the Vita version were released yesterday
Well on the interview they had with... Kotaku? I think? Or was it Polygon? Don't matter.
In that interview, they state that they're closely supervised by Japan, but are given freedom.
Basically there's these "Boundaries" for the characters which you cannot cross. They develop within those and try to expand those boundaries by trying things sometimes. If it's not good they're driven back on course from Japan (wether it be good or bad is a different issue).
So yes, while it's quite controlled, I do believe they have certain freedom. It's certainly not a Miyamoto developed game
I agree with some things, but IMO, the Vita strategy with PS4 only works in detriment of the Vita platform. It's a good move to keep the hardware relevant, but not in a sales perspective.
Sammy Samusu
Member
I'll judge SS when it leaves the Top 50.
BishopLamont
Banned
You won't need to wait long.
Screamapillar
Member
LM was co-developed by Next Level and Miyamoto/ EAD. So it's not eastern vs western, it was a joint development by both eastern and western developers, and it doesn't matter in which territory it was made anyway, because it's a first-party Nintendo sequel made under the supervision of Miyamoto, so you won't be able to tell whether it's eastern or western anyway.
BishopLamont
Banned
Development by NLG with supervision from Miyamoto. Its a western developed game.
It'll have "ok" legs just because its MH clone with a decent marketing, but any break out success is ruled out just because of Vita's small userbase alone. You need a decent userbase to spread word of mouth to begin with to have a breakout hit.
grimshawish
Banned
I think it'll stay for a bit. Not 'legs' but it'll be a few weeks yet.
I do still believe Wii U is in a better position than Vita, but I think even the biggest Nintendo fan has to admit the lack of release dates for games that were already supposed to be out is a worrying sign about Nintendo's competence in this market.
I think what you mentioned earlier about having a clean slate with next FY could be true. Doesn't make it any less.. crappy, anyways.
Yep, both the PS3 and the Vita version were released yesterday
Thank you.
I think even Nintendo fans saw this already when Nintendo said that they won't do anything in the 1Q of the year. This coming 2Q will be crucial for WiiU since afaik, there will games coming out in this quarter that will likely push the hardware sales.
Screamapillar
Member
It's neither being marketed as a western-developed game, nor was Miyamoto the only staff member from Nintendo who was involved with it. So, I don't see your point. Producers from EAD including Miyamoto worked day-to-day with the team, much like Retro with Mario Kart 7 and DKCR. It is indistinguishable from a eastern-made game as far as anyone is concerned.
Screamapillar
Member
I mean...the biggest Nintendo fans have always had to deal with major software delays of big first-party games. Been like that since Nintendo 64.
I don’t understand how Nintendo came up with the original Wii U HW & SW forecasts. With such a barren release list in Q1 how was it possible to come up with 5 mil consoles shipped and 24 mil games?
Surely it’s not just guesswork and there is a method to predicting a forecast? Was it simply Nintendo thinking Nintendoland and NSMBU were enough to make this happen?
I remember those GC droughts. Brutal!!
Surely it’s not just guesswork and there is a method to predicting a forecast? Was it simply Nintendo thinking Nintendoland and NSMBU were enough to make this happen?
I remember those GC droughts. Brutal!!
Screamapillar
Member
Lol. GCN delays were the worst. Such awesome games, though, when they finally did come out. I forgive them.
But to your first point about the HW/SW forecasts, they were revised down from original targets because of the 3 month delay of Pikmin, W101, Wii Fit, and Game & Wario. Had all of those games had dates and begun being released one per month starting in January as originally planned, Wii U would have either met or exceeded the original forecasts. It also turned into a domino effect, because after Nintendo announced the software delay, other publishers saw the cliff coming, and they pushed back and canceled games. Rayman, Aliens, etc. That only made things worse.