electroplankton
Banned
Sales are bad, but evaluating a platform in its first months after a launch is never a good thing.
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Media Create Sales: Week 12, 2013 (Mar 18 - Mar 24)
- Thread starter Chris1964
- Start date
Sales are bad, but evaluating a platform in its first months after a launch is never a good thing.
It'll probably right itself to somewhere around GCN numbers. It's got some room to lower the price and it does have some big franchise cards to pull.
This isn't a good result given how much the market has grown. For Japan though I think the rest of this gen will move even more towards the 3DS if such a thing is even possible.
This isn't a good result given how much the market has grown. For Japan though I think the rest of this gen will move even more towards the 3DS if such a thing is even possible.
michaelius
Banned
I think you have much bigger problem in assumption that everyone owned Nintendo console in the past so they care about those.
But single machine ownership is norm and there are tons of people who started with Sega consoles, Amigas, PCs and Playstations as their first gaming machines.
And even if you had Nintendo console there's a reason half of those franchises are dead - few people were buying them when they were released.
So no it's not hard at all to not care about those games listed - I could play FE and probably would enjoy it greatly and maybe Zelda but that's nowhere near close to spending 200 euro to play them.
I'm now very tempted to check if you participated in one of "You can't judge Vita untill it's first Christmas" threads
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Twilight Princess on the Wii sold 523 000 and Skyward Sword did a pathetic 297 000
Wind Waker sold 743 000. That is a serious decline in the series.
EDIT: Its WW numbers, ignore my post.
Me: We don't know how a major Nintendo title will perform on the Wii U yet, good or bad.
Others: Mario U is already on the Wii U and didn't sell systems, and what titles will spur sales on afterwards?
Me: Mario U didn't change enough from its previous releases (if MK8/3D Mario is a graphical upgrade of MK7/Galaxy 2, it won't do anything either). We don't know the full third-party outlook.
Others: If there were third parties on board, we would have seen those titles announced by now.
And so on and so forth.
But you do like some of them, and that's the point. It's a bit shortsighted to say that you dislike all Nintendo games.
And Zelda on handhelds has went from 235,400 (Minish Cap) to 902,000 (Phantom Hourglass) to 586,000 (Ocarina of Time 3D). The fanbase has shifted onto handhelds.
Worldwide
AdventureRacing
Member
Me: We don't know how a major Nintendo title will perform on the Wii U yet, good or bad.
Others: Mario U is already on the Wii U and didn't sell systems, and what titles will spur sales on afterwards?
Me: Mario U didn't change enough from its previous releases (if MK8/3D Mario is a graphical upgrade of MK7/Galaxy 2, it won't anything either). We don't know the full third-party outlook.
Others: If there were third parties on board, we would have seen those titles announced by now.
And so on and so forth.
So what exactly is the problem here?
I'm just in Japan for vacation and I'm baffled at the exposure of Tomb Raider in Akihabara. Lots of ads in the stores (like Soul Sacrifice) it seems like a Wada's last wish.
Anyway, Road do you want me to buy some sales data report from here before it's too late? (Not very expensive ehhh? Haha ;D)
I took some pictures (last of us ads, Rising at 3900 yen, a bunch of people playing Dragon Quest VII in the streets...) that I'll upload later if anyone is interested (nothing really interesting but I'm having fun looking at this things in real life instead of this threads)
Anyway, Road do you want me to buy some sales data report from here before it's too late? (Not very expensive ehhh? Haha ;D)
I took some pictures (last of us ads, Rising at 3900 yen, a bunch of people playing Dragon Quest VII in the streets...) that I'll upload later if anyone is interested (nothing really interesting but I'm having fun looking at this things in real life instead of this threads
)He said dislike, not care.
I took some pictures (last of us ads, Rising at 3900 yen, a bunch of people playing Dragon Quest VII in the streets...) that I'll upload later if anyone is interested (nothing really interesting but I'm having fun looking at this things in real life instead of this threads
What the, already?!! In Japan??!!
I always struggle to comprehend the term Europe in this context as I live in the UK and used to live in post-communist Eastern Europe. Buying habits and trends are completely different. Anyways, that's a little off-topic. So is the 3DS baseline (as in completely unrelative to the current competition) somewhat low at 60-70,000 for a console/system leader?
electroplankton
Banned
I'm just in Japan for vacation and I'm baffled at the exposure of Tomb Raider in Akihabara. Lots of ads in the stores (like Soul Sacrifice) it seems like a Wada's last wish.
Anyway, Road do you want me to buy some sales data report from here before it's too late? (Not very expensive ehhh? Haha ;D)
I took some pictures (last of us ads, Rising at 3900 yen, a bunch of people playing Dragon Quest VII in the streets...) that I'll upload later if anyone is interested (nothing really interesting but I'm having fun looking at this things in real life instead of this threads
How much do they ship already? I think that is because of the first shipment.
Let's just wait for numbers after the Wii U gets a big release before judging it, okay thanks bye.
The point of the forum is to have discussions based on what is currently available.
If we're not going to have discussions, there's no point to having the forum.
Bruno MB
Member
I very much agree that Super Smash Bros would be the best candidate to provide a strong short-term boost to hardware sales. Another Mario 3D + Mario Kart combo? so tiresome. Mario Kart 7 launch looks still recent, it would be wiser to wait until next year.
In my opinion the ideal would be Super Mario 3D U + Super Smash Bros U for Holiday season. The biggest issue is that Super Smash Bros U probably will not be ready for this year.
People talk about Wii U reaching Gamecube or Nintendo 64 sales. Well, I always say that there is a big difference between these two systems, in order to reach Nintendo 64 level of sales you have to sell well in at least one region. Nintendo 64 sold 20,6 million units in America, that's not an easy goal to reach for a "fail" console. In Japan sold 5,54 million units, I just can't see Wii U selling more in that region even with very strong first-party sales. That amount is almost the best a Nintendo system can sell without third-party support and especially, without extremely successful evergreen titles like Wii Sports or Wii Fit.
Anyway, under any circumstance I consider the possibility of killing Wii U early, that's crazy talk. And the only positive thing I see is that a hugely overpriced Nintendo console without Nintendo games and zero third-party support still is selling around 8.000 - 10.000 units per week. It should be selling near 0 units because I can't see any incentive to buy this machine.
In my opinion the ideal would be Super Mario 3D U + Super Smash Bros U for Holiday season. The biggest issue is that Super Smash Bros U probably will not be ready for this year.
People talk about Wii U reaching Gamecube or Nintendo 64 sales. Well, I always say that there is a big difference between these two systems, in order to reach Nintendo 64 level of sales you have to sell well in at least one region. Nintendo 64 sold 20,6 million units in America, that's not an easy goal to reach for a "fail" console. In Japan sold 5,54 million units, I just can't see Wii U selling more in that region even with very strong first-party sales. That amount is almost the best a Nintendo system can sell without third-party support and especially, without extremely successful evergreen titles like Wii Sports or Wii Fit.
Anyway, under any circumstance I consider the possibility of killing Wii U early, that's crazy talk. And the only positive thing I see is that a hugely overpriced Nintendo console without Nintendo games and zero third-party support still is selling around 8.000 - 10.000 units per week. It should be selling near 0 units because I can't see any incentive to buy this machine.
Let's just wait for numbers after the Wii U gets a big release before judging it, okay thanks bye.
A "real" Mario game is no longer a big release? 2D Mario is the quintessential system seller.
It is tracking behind the GameCube, and the GC did not launch with a 2D Mario nor a Call of Duty Black Ops 2, the biggest third party game in the industry.
It is absolutely fine to judge the console now, and if things magically take a huge turnaround, it would still be accurate to look back and say "Yeah those first 3-5 months for the Wii U were abysmal"
IHaveCandy
Banned
The problem is that this was their biggest advantage with a year early release, and it's wasted.
airmangataosenai
Member
It shows baseline interest in the product itself and that it's low even compared to other poor performing platforms. And it isn't as if the current lineup is particularly bad either, it's actually arguably one of the strongest Japanese-centric release lists of all-time. Mario, Dragon Quest, and Monster Hunter all in the first 6 months? That's insane.
shinra-bansho
Member
There's a core base of users who will buy it to play key Nintendo titles.
On a slight aside, is it considered overpriced now?
It's certainly not "expensive" per se, but prior to launch calling it overpriced seemed taboo.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
And vice versa. People who judged the Vita in its first 3 months but then say how you should not judge the WiiU in the first 3 months.
I think its fine to judge a system in the first three months. You can get an idea of the interest and demand for the system at the current price for sure but to say that the first three months will dictate its future is a jumping to conclusions too soon.
electroplankton
Banned
A "real" Mario game is no longer a big release? 2D Mario is the quintessential system seller.
It is tracking behind the GameCube, and the GC did not launch with a 2D Mario nor a Call of Duty Black Ops 2, the biggest third party game in the industry.
It is absolutely fine to judge the console now, and if things magically take a huge turnaround, it would still be accurate to look back and say "Yeah those first 3-5 months for the Wii U were abysmal"
The strength of a 2D Mario is linked to the entry price point of the hardware.
A "real" Mario game is no longer a big release? 2D Mario is the quintessential system seller.
It is tracking behind the GameCube, and the GC did not launch with a 2D Mario nor a Call of Duty Black Ops 2, the biggest third party game in the industry.
It is absolutely fine to judge the console now, and if things magically take a huge turnaround, it would still be accurate to look back and say "Yeah those first 3-5 months for the Wii U were abysmal"
Me: We don't know how a major Nintendo title will perform on the Wii U yet, good or bad.
Others: Mario U is already on the Wii U and didn't sell systems, and what titles will spur sales on afterwards?
Me: Mario U didn't change enough from its previous releases (if MK8/3D Mario is a graphical upgrade of MK7/Galaxy 2, it won't do anything either). We don't know the full third-party outlook.
Others: If there were third parties on board, we would have seen those titles announced by now.
And so on and so forth.
Yup.
I could write a book about why New Super Mario Bros. U isn't selling systems now. Even so, it got people to buy the system at launch.
BishopLamont
Banned
Its fine to judge the system right now, its just stupid to say that the system will be discontinued. It feels like the same ones that say to give Vita a chance, won't do the same for the Wii U.
Bruno MB
Member
Well, the decent SKU (the market has rejected the basic model) is definitely not cheap at all in Japan (￥31.500), and ultra expensive where I live (350 euro).
It is true that comparatively its price in Japan is better than the rest of the world, when Japanese price was first announced people expected Wii U to cost 250 dollars / euro (basic model) and 300 dollars / euro (premium model).
That is true for pretty much all launch games, but if any game is going to move consoles it should be a 2D Mario game
Seems people are throwing the game under the bus to explain/excuse the lackluster Wii U sales across all 3 major markets, saying it is a bad game or not a "real" Mario game (what?!?)
BishopLamont
Banned
I think even Super Mario Universe/Galaxy 3 would have been a better launch title. The casuals that 2D Mario mainly attracts is much more price sensitive than the 3D Mario crowd. In hindsight you'd think 2D Mario is the better option, but thats before we knew of NSMB2 or the relatively higher priced Wii U. The launch of the Wii U is all sorts of miserables.
Seriously, Nintendo should have gave the game a new look, its the only thing lacking and underwhelming bout the game, I'm betting the Wii U would be in a much better shape if that happened.
airmangataosenai
Member
Pretty much, yeah.
Going back to older threads, much was made about how the Wii U was the first Nintendo hardware in over 15 years to launch with a new Mario platformer.
You are right that in hindsight that seems to maybe have been a better idea, but if the situation was the same we would all be sitting here saying "Why the F did they launch with a 3D Mario game!??? Everyone knows 2D Mario games sell better, here is data.jpg proving that!".
Too much focus is being put on those 3 games, it is not the fault of 2D Mario (or in any alternative reality the fault of 3D Mario/Mario Kart) that Wii U has not been doing well. It has been said a million times, but the basic issue is that the GamePad is clearly not resonating with consumers in any region the way they perhaps thought it would
Exterminieren
Banned
It's not a bad game, and it's certainly a real Mario game.
What it also is, however, is functionally identical in the eyes of the market to three titles on much more popular systems in recent years, with one just a few months beforehand.
Different artstyle + new music would have gone a long way, although it still would've been greatly hampered by New Super Mario Bros. 2. The level design itself is some of the best in the series.
shinra-bansho
Member
I just don't see price being the key issue; at ￥31,500, $350, €350 it's still far cheaper than the prices we saw at the start of this gen - and those systems sold comparatively well, even though at the time their sales weren't looked upon favorably.
...are supposed to be the source of the increased brand awareness you mentioned earlier.
God damn them flashbacks, these feels.
That´s why i said most and not much. Some IPs sold a bit better, some a bit worse, but the only IPs that grew proportional to the hardware base were NSMB and Mario Kart.
Bruno MB
Member
If you go by Dengeki numbers there are still a little bit over 100.000 units available.
Anyway, I can tell you that other tracker has Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance with a noticeable smaller amount of shipped units.
If it weren't for its Japanese sales which are great despite they shipped too many units, it would have been a sizable failure for Konami. It sold really bad in the US market, especially for a title that won't have legs, and I don't think it did much better in Europe.
I don't remember having said that its price was the main issue.
Me: We don't know how a major Nintendo title will perform on the Wii U yet, good or bad.
Others: Mario U is already on the Wii U and didn't sell systems, and what titles will spur sales on afterwards?
Me: Mario U didn't change enough from its previous releases (if MK8/3D Mario is a graphical upgrade of MK7/Galaxy 2, it won't do anything either). We don't know the full third-party outlook.
Others: If there were third parties on board, we would have seen those titles announced by now.
And so on and so forth.
But you do like some of them, and that's the point. It's a bit shortsighted to say that you dislike all Nintendo games.
And Zelda on handhelds has went from 235,400 (Minish Cap) to 902,000 (Phantom Hourglass) to 586,000 (Ocarina of Time 3D). The fanbase has shifted onto handhelds.
in regards to Mario Kart, the series has barely advanced in the graphical side. it is barely better than what it was with MKDD and that came out 10 years ago. graphics aren't what's going to break MK. i'd say MK and SSB are bigger system sellers than 2D Mario since those series have bigger hardcore fanbases than 2D Mario (2D Mario sells more but the casual side is much bigger)
the GC's launch would have been as horrid as the Wii U launch if SSBM wasn't there in the launch window.
I agree to a point, but the difference is Vita is vying for a dying market that is monopolized by Nintendo. Wii U is vying for a console market that could be strong for decades to come. Also the whole strength of first party games thing.
I think that's 1 of the 3 major factors, the other 2 being
Lack of advertising, and
In retrospect it's not actually much of a system seller. Neither the graphics or the gameplay will wow anyone like a fully 3D Mario game would, for example. For people to buy a $300 console the game typically needs to have a wow factor that is apparent at first glance.
Well said, but I think Microsoft is sitting pretty. Just as I made that long post about the potential of Wii U, Microsoft is in a similar position. They can afford to take risks and make mistakes and still be very successful long term.
On a purely anecdotal basis, SSB has solid system seller potential. Any time I went to someones house and they had GC, not only did they always have SSB:M, it was almost always the game in the console.
Predictions
[PSV] Hardware (28 days) - 76.543
[3DS] Cardfight!! Vanguard Ride to Victory (18 days) - 56.789
[3DS] Tomodachi Collection Shin Seikatsu (11 days) - 456.789
[PS3+360] Naruto Shippuden Ultimate Ninja Storm 3 (11 days) - 98.765
[PSP] 7th Dragon 2020 II (11 days) - 87.654
[PS3] Dragon's Dogma Dark Arisen (4 days) - 123.456
[PSV] Hardware (28 days) - 76.543
[3DS] Cardfight!! Vanguard Ride to Victory (18 days) - 56.789
[3DS] Tomodachi Collection Shin Seikatsu (11 days) - 456.789
[PS3+360] Naruto Shippuden Ultimate Ninja Storm 3 (11 days) - 98.765
[PSP] 7th Dragon 2020 II (11 days) - 87.654
[PS3] Dragon's Dogma Dark Arisen (4 days) - 123.456
Predictions
[PSV] Hardware (28 days) - 78.453
[3DS] Cardfight!! Vanguard Ride to Victory (18 days) - 51.003
[3DS] Tomodachi Collection Shin Seikatsu (11 days) - 395.205
[PS3+360] Naruto Shippuden Ultimate Ninja Storm 3 (11 days) - 82.489
[PSP] 7th Dragon 2020 II (11 days) - 75.356
[PS3] Dragon's Dogma Dark Arisen (4 days) - 92.439
[PSV] Hardware (28 days) - 78.453
[3DS] Cardfight!! Vanguard Ride to Victory (18 days) - 51.003
[3DS] Tomodachi Collection Shin Seikatsu (11 days) - 395.205
[PS3+360] Naruto Shippuden Ultimate Ninja Storm 3 (11 days) - 82.489
[PSP] 7th Dragon 2020 II (11 days) - 75.356
[PS3] Dragon's Dogma Dark Arisen (4 days) - 92.439
[PSV] Hardware (28 days) - 70,000
[3DS] Cardfight!! Vanguard Ride to Victory (18 days) - 60,000
[3DS] Tomodachi Collection Shin Seikatsu (11 days) - 500,000 (!)
[PS3+360] Naruto Shippuden Ultimate Ninja Storm 3 (11 days) - 100,000
[PSP] 7th Dragon 2020 II (11 days) - 70,000
[PS3] Dragon's Dogma Dark Arisen (4 days) - 140,000
[3DS] Cardfight!! Vanguard Ride to Victory (18 days) - 60,000
[3DS] Tomodachi Collection Shin Seikatsu (11 days) - 500,000 (!)
[PS3+360] Naruto Shippuden Ultimate Ninja Storm 3 (11 days) - 100,000
[PSP] 7th Dragon 2020 II (11 days) - 70,000
[PS3] Dragon's Dogma Dark Arisen (4 days) - 140,000
I've always considered the Wii U blatantly overpriced, and I've certainly posted it a few times on GAF.
If by "taboo" you mean it would displease the Nintendo fanbase to say something that could be perceived as a negative, sure.
electroplankton
Banned
The majority of IPs sold better, and way better. Just look at Super Smash Bros., Animal Crossing, Donkey Kong.
ElectricKaibutsu
Member
Every console is overpriced at launch.
Did you use these for N64 sales or do you have different figures?　Just asking because if you have the adjusted numbers (the ones in that post are old and Famitsu has changed them), can you share them?
On a scale from"sad" to "just kill yourself", how sad is it if I ever go to Japan I want to schedule one day to visit a library that has all the Media Create and Famitsu white papers? =P
You just have fun.
We can monitor games output over the past couple years. If you think Nintendo's output will accelerate, that's an argument of faith. If you have seen indications that, say, they've hired significant new staff, and created new development teams, that would help your argument. But just stating that things will turn around "because of course they will", that's not a defensible position.