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[Pai Pai Master]

The failure of the Vita is sad to see, but the failure of Sony to do anything about it is not sad. Just really, really disappointing. It sets a pretty awful precedent for anyone who's not a diehard PlayStation fan and I feel like this can directly influence the early sales of future platforms. Very few people are going to want to support a new PlayStation system if Sony now has a track record of doing something like this.

TGS is really starting to feel like the last straw. No Vita Game Heaven 2 like was promised makes me think they didn't have enough announcements to spread between the two events. I guess we'll see, but if TGS isn't full of the breakthrough announcements the system needs, 2013 is looking grim for the platform's sustainability.

 

[CronoShot]

I can't tell if Max Payne 3 did well or if everything else just did poorly.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

No Vita Game Heaven 2 like was promised makes me think they didn't have enough announcements to spread between the two events.

I genuinely forgot all about that.

Did they ever announce a cancellation or just keep going "No, it's cool, we'll do it. Sometime."

 

[Pai Pai Master]

I genuinely forgot all about that.

Did they ever announce a cancellation or just keep going "No, it's cool, we'll do it. Sometime."

They basically went on about how people misinterpereted what the first event was going to be, and said that they'd have some real announcements for Game Heaven 2. IIRC, it was supposed to be in July...then August...then they just stopped mentioning it.

 

[BadWolf]

The failure of the Vita is sad to see, but the failure of Sony to do anything about it is not sad. Just really, really disappointing. It sets a pretty awful precedent for anyone who's not a diehard PlayStation fan and I feel like this can directly influence the early sales of future platforms. Very few people are going to want to support a new PlayStation system if Sony now has a track record of doing something like this.

TGS is really starting to feel like the last straw. No Vita Game Heaven 2 like was promised makes me think they didn't have enough announcements to spread between the two events. I guess we'll see, but if TGS isn't full of the breakthrough announcements the system needs, 2013 is looking grim for the platform's sustainability.

After Gamescon I really have a feeling they will deliver at TGS.

 

[Takao]

They basically went on about how people misinterpereted what the first event was going to be, and said that they'd have some real announcements for Game Heaven 2. IIRC, it was supposed to be in July...then August...then they just stopped mentioning it.

Kawano actually never gave a time frame. Anoop (or whomever his source for the article was) mistakenly combined two separate comments. Supposedly some stuff was filmed in July. Once again, no one knows what's up.

 

[electroplankton]

This week Vita's numbers clearly shown a thing: the market doesn't want it, it doesn't have an interest in this product, period.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

After Gamescon I really have a feeling they will deliver at TGS.

Tearaway was a very nice surprise and very cool to see Sony dedicating one of their most acclaimed developers to Vita, but it's third party support that they need most. I think for there to really be a chance to revive the system, Soul Sacrifice needs to be huge and there needs to be a constant flow of third party games coming after and throughout 2013.

Kawano actually never gave a time frame. Anoop (or whomever his source for the article was) mistakenly combined two separate comments. Supposedly some stuff was filmed in July. Once again, no one knows what's up.

Okay, cool. Definitely a confusing situation...but at this point I'm questioning whether or not we'll ever see it. I'm feeling more and more like the announcements planned for the event were rolled into TGS, but I guess we'll see what Sony has planned next week.

This week Vita's numbers clearly shown a thing: the market doesn't want it, it doesn't have an interest in this product, period.

I think it's too early (or late, if Sony really has no intention of stepping it up) to come to that conclusion. We don't know what the Vita looks like as a platform with a healthy library. If the platform is failing without the chance to have one, we don't really know if the market is rejecting the product itself or its software availability. As we just saw last week and with Persona, sales are pretty strong when there's a game to buy for it, but fall off a cliff a week later.

 

[frankie_baby]

Millions? Defintely a million. Im only talking japan here

You get the point I'm making though

 

[Man God]

People largely don't buy the Vita based on its catalog, they buy it based on new releases. When it doesn't get quality new releases, people don't buy it, and after they've bought a Vita for those titles it goes back to square one.

 

[donny2112]

So will the 3DS pass the PS3 before Vita pass the Xbox 360 in lifetime sells?

How's Vita tracking next to Wonderswan?

 

[Somnid]

It's still kinda surreal to think that Vita is literally at that point where it might not even finish the race.

 

[Moor-Angol]

People didnt expect such a huge drop from last week although it only makes sense with how many bundles were sold last week.

people should remember how GC and 360 sold in the past


not a strong line-up, i mean a bunch of games released every week, some good title, but nothing else

remember when Tales of Symphonia was released ? GC > PS2
and the following week PS2 sold more than GC, as usual

360 was the same, poor line-up, not supported from both Microsoft and third parties, when Blue Dragon and Star Ocean 4 arrived, there was a very high bump.
but the following weeks....

if you have a good line-up with weekly releases, people goes to shops and buy the system
this is a basic rule, especially on japanese market

if you have a line-up with many weeks with no releases, people is not pushed to spend their money for the system


i hope that after this explanation you can understand why i was not surprised by seeing those numbers

 

[Pai Pai Master]

It's still kinda surreal to think that Vita is literally at that point where it might not even finish the race.

No one's fault but Sony's, IMO. As the platform holder they have a responsibility to make it attractive to consumers and developers. Outside of trying to grab the big western franchises like Call of Duty and Assassin's Creed, I haven't seen Sony engaging with third parties in any meaningful way to come up with a solution to this problem. Soul Sacrifice is the big exception, and with how Sony's been acting, I wonder which side initiated that.

 

[frankie_baby]

There was a suggestion after the persona bump that many people may have bought a vita for that game and then sold them back to stores after, last week vita got another big one week bump and I'm wondering if the sane could happen again and then possibly could there be a glut of second hand vita available and if going forward could that effect new vita sales?

Could anyone in Japan provide any insight into the situation with 2nd hand vitas in stores?

 

[Hammer24]

people should remember how GC and 360 sold in the past


not a strong line-up, i mean a bunch of games released every week, some good title, but nothing else

remember when Tales of Symphonia was released ? GC > PS2
and the following week PS2 sold more than GC, as usual

360 was the same, poor line-up, not supported from both Microsoft and third parties, when Blue Dragon and Star Ocean 4 arrived, there was a very high bump.
but the following weeks....

if you have a good line-up with weekly releases, people goes to shops and buy the system
this is a basic rule, especially on japanese market

if you have a line-up with many weeks with no releases, people is not pushed to spend their money for the system


i hope that after this explanation you can understand why i was not surprised by seeing those numbers

And people returned their 360 after playing the few market specific releases, thus the used market killed any sustainable userbase buildup.
Guess thats happening to the Vita now.

 

[tuffy]

People largely don't buy the Vita based on its catalog, they buy it based on new releases. When it doesn't get quality new releases, people don't buy it, and after they've bought a Vita for those titles it goes back to square one.

People seem to buy a 3DS to keep it. When a big new release shows up, or the 3DS LL arrives, there's bumps in "evergreen" catalog titles and those titles are always hanging around the chart somewhere.

The Vita, on the other hand, seems like it's bought as a rental. People buy it when there's a big new title, but nothing else sees a bump and its sales go back into the cellar immediately afterward. It's going to take a multiplayer title with some network effect that people want to keep on playing to buck this trend, I think.

 

[frankie_baby]

People seem to buy a 3DS to keep it. When a big new release shows up, or the 3DS LL arrives, there's bumps in "evergreen" catalog titles and those titles are always hanging around the chart somewhere.

The Vita, on the other hand, seems like it's bought as a rental. People buy it when there's a big new title, but nothing else sees a bump and its sales go back into the cellar immediately afterward. It's going to take a multiplayer title with some network effect that people want to keep on playing to buck this trend, I think.

At least people have stopped suggesting vita will be fine when monster hunter comes out for it

 

[Pai Pai Master]

3DS has new games every week. And more Nintendo Direct events than I can count (didn't know there was ANOTHER one until the thread popped up).

Personally I don't think there's an excuse for Sony to not be putting as much effort into making their platform strive as Nintendo seems to be. Granted, handhelds are Nintendo's bread and butter but this isn't Sony's first walk in the park, which is why a lot of people are surprised it's going the way it is.

It's not the same at all but reminds me of the FFXIV situation. Square was an underdog in the MMO market and created a game that did some smart things and carved itself a nice following, and was sustainable and successful for SE, much like PSP was for Sony. Then FFXIV/Vita come along and they seem to have forgotten everything they learned from the first go-around.

We need Vita: A Realm Reborn I guess.

 

[R-User!]

After Gamescon I really have a feeling they will deliver at TGS.

They'll deliver something alright...

Question is though, will it be a turd with a ribbon, or a platform-life-sustaining collection of software announcements.

We wait with baited breath!

 

[AndrewDean84xX]

It's pretty clear that the 3DS has replaced the DS, but sadly that can't be said for the Vita and PSP.

 

[Hammer24]

Could anyone in Japan provide any insight into the situation with 2nd hand vitas in stores?

Thats what Vinnk said in the old thread:

Plentiful. Mostly mint in box and a much better value than buying a new Vita. I think a lot of otaku gamers (not the mainstream) sold their first Vitas in preparation for the Miku bundle. Also it's easy to get a used Personal 4 on the cheap.

At least this was the situation last week. I haven't been to any stores this week. Baby on the way, lots to do.

 

[watershed]

It's pretty clear that the 3DS has replaced the DS, but sadly that can't be said for the Vita and PSP.

Unfortunately for Sony that's because the 3ds is also succeeding at replacing the psp. The only place the 3ds is struggling is with retaining the casual consumers that flocked to the ds.

 

[Mpl90]

05./01. [PSV] Hatsune Miku: Project Diva f # <ACT> (Sega) {2012.08.30} (¥7.329) - 16.807 / 174.816 (-89%)
[3DS] Hatsune Miku: Project Mirai and the Future Stars (Sega) - 14.404 / 103.141

Surprised to see not that much of a difference for the second week.

 

[liger05]

Even if anything is announced for PSVita at TGS, it probably won't be released this financial year. Is that too late?

I think it is. I dont see how the vita digs itself out of this hole. The 3DS isnt going anywhere and I still think the Wii U is just another nail in the coffin for the vita.

 

[frankie_baby]

Thats what Vinnk said in the old thread:

Thanks, must have missed and/or forgot about vinnk's post

 

[frankie_baby]

05./01. [PSV] Hatsune Miku: Project Diva f # <ACT> (Sega) {2012.08.30} (¥7.329) - 16.807 / 174.816 (-89%)
[3DS] Hatsune Miku: Project Mirai and the Future Stars (Sega) - 14.404 / 103.141

Surprised to see not that much of a difference for the second week.

What's the last number we had for Mirai? (Either mc or fam)

 

[electroplankton]

What's the last number we had for Mirai? (Either mc or fam)

Chris said it was close to 150k.

 

[frankie_baby]

Chris said it was close to 150k.

Not bad for a spin off that was derided by the "fan base" wonder how diva f would have done on 3ds

 

[jman2050]

There was a suggestion after the persona bump that many people may have bought a vita for that game and then sold them back to stores after, last week vita got another big one week bump and I'm wondering if the sane could happen again and then possibly could there be a glut of second hand vita available and if going forward could that effect new vita sales?

Could anyone in Japan provide any insight into the situation with 2nd hand vitas in stores?

This isn't a new thing. From what I recall the ridiculous value of trade-ins means it's popular to buy an unpopular console for a specific game, finish the game, and then return them to the stores for resale. Rinse and repeat for each big title. This was done with the GC as well.

If people are already doing that with the Vita then it's game over.

 

[LayLa]

had a spare half hour so made a graph (click to make larger). not as interesting as i thought it would be, but some stray observations - most hardware bunched into two groups with a clear gap between them (Wii/PS3/PSP and Vita/DS/360), with 3DS riding just above. PSP holding well, Wii with a downward trend but not as bad as i thought it would be? that DS dropoff at the start of the year makes me want to do a 2011 chart though!

 

[Chris1964]

The original 3DS is holding up against LL better than I thought it would.

DSi LL didn't kill DSi, there is no reason for 3DS LL to kill 3DS. Only with next slim revision.

 

[sphinx]

At that point a discontinuation (or soft discontinuation where they just let it fade out over time) would likely be the next step in about 6-12 months.

sony isn't going to do any moves beyond what they have been doing so far, either positive or negative ones

I don't see them thinking "holy shit, we are in trouble, let's ask Capcom or SE and beg them to throw Vita a bone" but I don't see them dropping the Vita all together either.

I'll repeat myself but yeah: we will see Vita's dead corpse floating around with isolated cases like Miku for around 4 years, which is the standard life expectancy for vegetative consoles, if GCN and XBX are any indication.

no comments from anyone at sony, no panic mode, no ponting fingers to blame anyone, no dreamcast scandals. in a year we'll still be saying "man! Vita is in danger!" .. truth is the Vita will live "in danger" forever.

in short, what we see is what we get.

 

[Boerseun]

I don't see why anyone should hold any sympathy for Sony's predicament. They were successful chiefly by moneyhatting the shit out of everything for two generations. The coffers were bound to dry up eventually.

 

[test_account]

I don't see why anyone should hold any sympathy for Sony's predicament. They were successful chiefly by moneyhatting the shit out of everything for two generations. The coffers were bound to dry up eventually.

What did they moneyhat for ~10 years?

 

[Laguna]

What did they moneyhat for ~10 years?

Tomb Raider, GTA, FinalFantasy come to mind also minor games like Soul Calibur 3.

 

[Graphics Horse]

also minor games like Soul Calibur 3.

Terrible move if that was the reason. SC2 would have made sense.

 

[sphinx]

Tomb Raider, GTA, FinalFantasy come to mind also minor games like Soul Calibur 3.

is there real proof that sony moneyhatted anyone?

 

[RukusProvider]

Damn, Sony's backed into a corner. I can't see how the Vita can keep going, unless it miraculously catches on in the west with AC and CoD.

This is just not going to happen. AC3 and CoD will not kickstart and maintain momentum for the vita.

 

[jman2050]

I don't see why anyone should hold any sympathy for Sony's predicament. They were successful chiefly by moneyhatting the shit out of everything for two generations. The coffers were bound to dry up eventually.

I think the moneyhat explanation is wrong but the basic idea is correct: Sony relies on third parties, they prospered for two generations because of it, but without third party support they have nothing.

 

[Little Green Yoda]

And the last two Animal Crossing titles were released only a few weeks apart worldwide. By contrast, AC 3DS is out in November in Japan, but NOA hasn't even committed to releasing it in Q1 2013 (just the first half of the year).

This probably explains partially why the 3DS isn't doing all that well outside Japan. Are the exchange rates affecting the motivation to localize these titles in a timely fashion, I wonder?

Games like 3D Land and Fire Emblem already showed projects and titles which have higher ambitions than there DS counterparts. Im sure this will continue in the future, especially once they have released the WiiU....

Didn't a lot of first party efforts shift from the DS to the Wii once the Wii released? Though I guess the runaway success of the DS (software-wise) provided Nintendo with a luxury they might not have with the 3DS.

 

[electroplankton]

I'll repeat myself but yeah: we will see Vita's dead corpse floating around with isolated cases like Miku for around 4 years, which is the standard life expectancy for vegetative consoles, if GCN and XBX are any indication.

?
GC did have Nintendo line-up with games that sold quite well in Japan. It was not a dead corpse, at least not in the first 3 years. Xbox, instead, didn't have anything relevant from Japan, it just received games aimed for the West.

 

[Canis lupus]

That's such a big drop for PDf and Vita...

 

[pulga]

Just bury it, Sony.

 

[Canis lupus]

Tomb Raider, GTA, FinalFantasy come to mind also minor games like Soul Calibur 3.

Proof for this?

 

[Kazerei]

had a spare half hour so made a graph (click to make larger). not as interesting as i thought it would be, but some stray observations - most hardware bunched into two groups with a clear gap between them (Wii/PS3/PSP and Vita/DS/360), with 3DS riding just above. PSP holding well, Wii with a downward trend but not as bad as i thought it would be? that DS dropoff at the start of the year makes me want to do a 2011 chart though!

Neat. It is pretty interesting how the lines separate into two groups.

 

[Man God]

Sony didn't actually moneyhat much at all during the PS1-PS2 days, companies just developed for the best selling platform and gave the scraps to the others.

OXBOX era MS did a ton of actual buy the studio/buy the game money hatting.

 

[muu]

I think the moneyhat explanation is wrong but the basic idea is correct: Sony relies on third parties, they prospered for two generations because of it, but without third party support they have nothing.

I don't really agree with this. They tried pretty hard to set up new IP on the PS1 era, and looking back there were many quirky, inventive titles that did pretty well. Yes they had the 3rd party support, but I enjoyed a lot of the original PS1 stuff as well. It was with PS2 that they decided to dump all their IP save for a scant few, and that's what got them in the hole they're in now. We see Nathan Drake, Gran Turismo, GoW guy and maybe that Infamous guy as some of the 'faces' of the Sony platform now, but imagine how different it could have been if they kept growing series like Popolocrois, Parappa, Jumping Flash, Arc the Lad, etc.

 

[sphinx]

?
GC did have Nintendo line-up with games that sold quite well in Japan. It was not a dead corpse, at least not in the first 3 years. Xbox, instead, didn't have anything relevant from Japan, it just received games aimed for the West.

Absolutely. Unlike vita, GCN had games and a solid lineup. Still, the hardware itself was sort of dead, with miku-like spikes here and there but it really never took off.

Vita is in a worse position without a strong first party input like nintendo's, just something to put into consideration.

so... did the dreamcast - Vita streams cross in that graph we've been using in the last weeks???

 

[Takao]

I don't really agree with this. They tried pretty hard to set up new IP on the PS1 era, and looking back there were many quirky, inventive titles that did pretty well. Yes they had the 3rd party support, but I enjoyed a lot of the original PS1 stuff as well. It was with PS2 that they decided to dump all their IP save for a scant few, and that's what got them in the hole they're in now. We see Nathan Drake, Gran Turismo, GoW guy and maybe that Infamous guy as some of the 'faces' of the Sony platform now, but imagine how different it could have been if they kept growing series like Popolocrois, Parappa, Jumping Flash, Arc the Lad, etc.

Or if they bought Crash Bandicoot from Universal ...