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[Mpl90]

Dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead doomed dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead doomed dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead doomed dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead doomed dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead doomed dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead ds dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead doomed dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead

Ooh, finally.

 

[[Nintex]]

I'm no Sony fan, but despite the huge drop and the supply constraint of the PSP, isn't this still better than it's 2 first weeks?. The real concern should be the software in fact.

Also Sony and Nintendo knows that handhelds are the systems of choice in Japan since last gen, just look at how pretty much all 3DS games that charted are hardcore games, against the casual ones that charted for the Wii. Vita will remain healthy, but Sony will have to kill the PSP if it keeps dropping hard every week, going against their strategy of keep them both.

You answered your question with the second half of your post. The handheld market is much larger than it was when both the PSP and DS launched but somehow not many Japanese players were interested in the Vita.

 

[kswiston]

FF XIII-2 sales are terrible, doesn't matter how you spin them.

Considering the first week numbers, this is about as good a second week as could be expected.

Final Fantasy XIII did 180k Week 2 off of a 1.5M launch week. Same week of the year as well I believe.

Tales of Xillia did 55k week 2 off of the same launch number as FF13-2

 

[Spiegel]

I'd say it's good considering that not only the World released just in the end of February and it has been released on a "little" userbase... but also that in the same month Gundam fans had the awesome Extreme Vs. to buy.

...Oh, and considering the competition of the other big 3DS titles.

EDIT: At least, it's far better than the Wii debacles XD

When is the "little" userbase excuse going to go away?

PSP 2006-08-07 3,825,233
SD Gundam G Generation Portable (PSP) - 155,634 (2006-08-03)


3DS 4,084,190
SD Gundam G Generation 3D (3DS) - 90,873 (2011-12-22)

 

[Opiate]

Warriors Orochi is covered in a previous post, so I'll post about G-Generation. Here are the last few years of first week sales for the series on various platforms:

SD Gundam G Generation DS (DS) - 53,000 (2005-05-26)

SD Gundam G Generation Portable (PSP) - 155,634 (2006-08-03)

SD Gundam: G Generation Cross Drive (DS) - 137,717 (2007-08-09)

SD Gundam G Generation Spirits (PS2) - 252,380 (2007-11-29)

SD Gundam G Generation Wars (PS2) - 175,304 (2009-08-06)
SD Gundam G Generation Wars (Wii) - 35,084 (2009-08-06)

SD Gundam G Generation: World (PSP) - 192,981 (2011-02-24)
SD Gundam G Generation: World (Wii) - 28,119 (2011-02-24)


SD Gundam G Generation 3D (3DS) - 90,873 (2011-12-22)


The series in general averages at about 300k LTD for each entry these days, with the major exception being the first DS release which sold less than 100k lifetime. In the distant past, the series did even better, with the older PS2 entries selling over 400k and over 500k lifetime, and a GBA entry which sold over 200k lifetime.

In general I think the 3DS entry is constrained by a smaller userbase, and being released in the same year where a PSP entry already satisfied the 300k userbase which regularly buys the games these days.

Thank you very much for the information, duck.

 

[DCharlie]

Sony should have been ponying up some cash for a MH title at launch. Don't know why they were so foolish.

"They arrived right before you did. I'm sorry"

 

[Hydrargyrus]

The simple answer is that Sony blew all their money already. It's not quite this simple in reality, of course (Sony still has liquidity and can still afford to reinvest in current ventures), but for simple, quick explanations, it's probably a good approximation.

Nintendo has been a conservative, careful company for decades. The result: they have ~11.5 Billion dollars in cash on hand, and 0 dollars in debt. Sony has been spending aggressively for a very long time, running their hardware at razor thin margins or even at a loss, and investing more heavily in third parties. The result: the entire company has ~7.4 Billion in cash, and ~12.9 Billion in debt.

Sony definitely was the goliath when they entered gaming; they had more money and more investment capital than Nintendo did. But prudent financial guidance from Nintendo and extremely aggressive guidance from Sony has, at the very least, leveled the playing field -- or even given Nintendo the advantage.

I'm really worry about the Sony's situation when the PS4 time comes. I mean, Vita is a fantastic console, but seems to me like Sony is making a extra effort to sell it at that price (that is expensive)... and if all of this doesn't goes well, the efforts with PS3 and PSVita could affect, in last term, at PS4

 

[Risk Breaker]

Are we now really surprised that 2nd week sales are low? lol They'll be bad for months probably.

 

[Leonsito]

Sales-Age is back at full force.

 

[milanbaros]

This holiday is really the last hurrah for the Wii. The Wii U will eat up what little sales the Wii is still getting, especially if it is released earlier than DECEMBER next year. I wonder if the Wii will even reach 13M LTD.

It is crazy how quickly the home console market has faded in Japan. We went from a record selling console last generation with the PS2, to the worst first place performance ever. I doubt things will improve next generation, especially since the 3DS and Vita are powerful enough to accommodate most types of games now. If you are making a title that will sell 75%+ of its copies in Japan, I don't see why you would even consider releasing it on consoles at this point.

Edit: fixed month typo

Yep. It just didn't have the staying power of the PS2 but 9/20 titles for the biggest selling week of the year in its 6th holiday season is actually pretty good.

 

[duckroll]

Considering the first week numbers, this is about as good a second week as could be expected.

Final Fantasy XIII did 180k Week 2 off of a 1.5M launch week. Same week of the year as well I believe.

Tales of Xillia did 55k week 2 off of the same launch number as FF13-2

When we're directly comparing a major FF console release with a major Tales console release sales wise, it becomes painfully obvious how much FF has fallen.

 

[Opiate]

lol?

This is another "smaller story but still interesting" this week. FF XIII-2 had a much smaller drop off, proportionally, than most mainline FF have had recently.

Of course, this is in part because 1) it's only psuedo-quasi-mainline, and 2) it started off so disastrously bad in the first place that a 90% drop was almost impossible.

 

[olimpia84]

Those Nintendo numbers...damn! They are rolling in cash for sure.
And Sony needs to do something about the PSV, those numbers are plain horrible. I will definitely hold off on buying one and see what the future holds for it.

 

[Opiate]

Those Nintendo numbers...damn! They are rolling in cash for sure.

Not necessarily. There is still good evidence that the system is being sold at a loss.

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

I am baffled at how people think Final Fantasy XIII-2 are terrible numbers. Terrible? Really? It is selling well. Will hit a million. No?

 

[Dr. Feel Good]

This is another "smaller story but still interesting" this week. FF XIII-2 had a much smaller drop off, proportionally, than most mainline FF have had recently.

Of course, this is in part because 1) it's only psuedo-quasi-mainline, and 2) it started off so disastrously bad in the first place that a 90% drop was almost impossible.

Would holidays have anything to do with it? Do we see FF mainline releases in the holidays often?

 

[Takao]

Those Nintendo numbers...damn! They are rolling in cash for sure.
And Sony needs to do something about the PSV, those numbers are plain horrible. I will definitely hold off on buying one and see what the future holds for it.

Sony doesn't have the luxury of overpricing their devices $80 at launch, so I wouldn't be holding my breath for a price cut unless sales reach current day PS2 numbers.

 

[kswiston]

When we're directly comparing a major FF console release with a major Tales console release sales wise, it becomes painfully obvious how much FF has fallen.

True. But the damage was done last week.

Final Fantasy needs a major mix-up. Considering S-E doesn't mind wasting mainline numbers on MMO titles that don't even appeal to the majority of their fanbase, I wonder how a 3DS FFXV would do. Beyond graphics, the series has yet to do anything that couldn't be reproduced on a handheld.

Would holidays have anything to do with it? Do we see FF mainline releases in the holidays often?

Final Fantasy XIII went from 1.5M week 1 -> 180k week 2 on the same week of the year.

 

[freddy]

I'm really worry about the Sony's situation when the PS4 time comes. I mean, Vita is a fantastic console, but seems to me like Sony is making a extra effort to sell it at that price (that is expensive)... and if all of this doesn't goes well, the efforts with PS3 and PSVita could affect, in last term, at PS4

Exactly. It's fine to have a loss leader strategy if it's working out for you but if Sony continues to post losses then the people making those decisions won't have a job for much longer. There's a very real chance then of Sony bringing in people who are prepared to trim the fat off the bone, so to speak.

 

[djplaeskool]

Those Nintendo numbers...damn! They are rolling in cash for sure.

If it was still $250, absolutely.
Right now, they are getting the platform out there in a big way, but they will need continued high software sales to make up for the lost revenue on per console margins.

 

[[Nintex]]

Not necessarily. There is still good evidence that the system is being sold at a loss.

Yep I wonder about Nintendo's next financial report, Mario 3D Land, Mario Kart 7 and the 3DS in general did great along with the tail of the Just Dance/Zumba Fitness hype that kept the Wii trucking but games like Zelda clearly underperformed. I can see their results swing into both losses and profits depending on the additional cash they sunk into the Wii U and 3DS's panic plan.

 

[RukusProvider]

I actually think Vita will have a better launch here in the US. Uncharted is a more popular title here and I think it will move some systems.

That said, I am yet again rethinking my preorder. If sales are this abysmal this thing it going to have a price drop VERY soon.

No it won't. You might see initial high numbers due to Sony fans and hardcore gamers that want to buy anything new but after that it'll drop off a brick.

Uncharted in the US isn't exactly a Gears/Halo/CoD juggernaut that people won't exactly be stepping over eachother to play it.

Vita in the US is a product for an audience that does not exist at a mass market level. Sony will learn that quickly.

 

[Somnid]

Not necessarily. There is still good evidence that the system is being sold at a loss.

Yeah but they at least have software sales.

 

[Johann]

The simple answer is that Sony blew all their money already. It's not quite this simple in reality, of course (Sony still has liquidity and can still afford to reinvest in current ventures), but for simple, quick explanations, it's probably a good approximation.

Nintendo has been a conservative, careful company for decades. The result: they have ~11.5 Billion dollars in cash on hand, and 0 dollars in debt. Sony has been spending aggressively for a very long time, running their hardware at razor thin margins or even at a loss, and investing more heavily in third parties. The result: the entire company has ~7.4 Billion in cash, and ~12.9 Billion in debt.

Sony definitely was the goliath when they entered gaming; they had more money and more investment capital than Nintendo did. But prudent financial guidance from Nintendo and extremely aggressive guidance from Sony has, at the very least, leveled the playing field -- or even given Nintendo the advantage.

It's probably more to do with development costs and Capcom's current development pipleline. A ground-up Monster Hunter for the Vita would require a lot of money and internal manpower. Even if Sony subsidized this move, there's still the problem of meeting the manpower requirements for such a large project without sacrificing quality control. Players would expect a certain standard of graphical quality if it was on the Vita. Capcom is stretched thin as it is. Dragon's Dogma's development has sucked up so many resources from within Capcom's internal development studios. The Devil May Cry series, usually developed in-house, is now outsourced to Ninja Theory. CyberConnect2 is developing Asura's Wrath. IIRC, Monster Hunter Portable 3rd HD for the PS3 was outsourced which resulted in a poorly received port.

Moving Monster Hunter to the 3DS would allow to reuse assets and have more manageable development requirements. They'll have an easier time with quality control. As far as platform incentives go, Nintendo is willing to publish these games in Europe/North America and handle advertising it. While Monster Hunter Tri wasn't too successful, they had great success with Dragon Quest 9.

 

[gconsole]

You can't compare the two directly though. Nintendo is only in the videogame business, Sony is so much more than that with cameras, phones, TV's, tablets, Blu-Ray, etc. Yes we can see the big picture but we don't know how those financials break down within each business (although maybe it's in their investor relation packets, I don't follow Sony) so the comparison doesn't work. I truly don't think this a smart way of analyzing Sony Computer Entertainment.

But either way a company would be out of their mind to drop $50 million on the promise of a title these days. Trends change, even MH isn't a guarantee.

Isn't Sony Computer Entertainment focus on videogame business? I don't follow your logic. Even only look at their videogame segment, SCE has been red for 3-4 years already. It shows how smart Sony do with their money in recent year (compare to Nintendo).

 

[test_account]

Sony just needs to concentrate on their phones, fighting with Nintendo over a distant second place is worthless

On a more serious note, 1st place or 2nd place doesnt really matter that much. What matters is to make profit. PSP is a distant 2nd place to the DS in LTD sales, but the PSP is still doing fine in Japan.

 

[Chuckpebble]

Maybe they should eliminate a SKU to cut down on buyer confusion and include a memory card at no extra cost.

 

[Anth0ny]

vita's dead as shit

almost as dead as Zelda in Japan

all hail Mario Kart.

 

[Alrus]

I am baffled at how people think Final Fantasy XIII-2 are terrible numbers. Terrible? Really? It is selling well. Will hit a million. No?

It won't. RPG don't usually have that kind of leg.

 

[jett]

Fuckin' apocalyptic.

Sony to go third party

 

[duckroll]

When is the "little" userbase excuse going to go away?

PSP 2006-08-07 3,825,233
SD Gundam G Generation Portable (PSP) - 155,634 (2006-08-03)


3DS 4,084,190
SD Gundam G Generation 3D (3DS) - 90,873 (2011-12-22)

I think there are other factors involved besides platform userbase as well. While some titles released early in a system's life could get a boost for simply being available, there are also titles which can be overlooked and ignored early in a system's life if the demographic for that particular game isn't fully on board the system yet.

Let's compare the two DS G-Generation games for example.

SD Gundam G Generation DS (DS) - 53,000 (2005-05-26) <-- Released 6 months after the DS launched, the DS userbase was 2,435,033 at the time.

SD Gundam: G Generation Cross Drive (DS) - 137,717 (2007-08-09) <-- Released almost 3 years after the DS launched, the DS userbase was 18,846,562 at the time.

I don't think the specific number of people who own the platform automatically dictate the userbase a game has. Increasing the DS userbase by another 16 million people certainly did not result in the next DS game selling 8 times more. But at the same time, the increased userbase did mean that it was likely that a huge percentage of the people who did buy G-Generation games who did not own a DS when the first game was released, had bought a DS by the time the next one was released. This is where userbase is meaningful.

The 3DS might have more overall owners than the PSP did at the time G Generation Portable was released, but we have to consider that the PSP was 2 years old by the time that game was released. This made it much more likely that over time, people who liked Gundam games have the chance to pick up the PSP, and there is a larger base for those gamers in the overall userbase. For the 3DS right now, that is obviously not the case.

If the userbase of the 3DS increases dramatically over the next year and more Gundam games are released on it, a subsequent exclusive G-Generation title on the 3DS would almost certainly do better.

 

[X26]

I hope Vita turns it around, I can not stand Nintendo and their ugly ass handheld design.

well if it makes you feel better nintendo isn't winning this race either

 

[duckroll]

Beyond graphics, the series has yet to do anything that couldn't be reproduced on a handheld.

Totally disagree here. There is one thing the series does constantly which cannot be reproduced on a handheld: it's a JRPG that sells millions outside of Japan.

 

[Sammy Samusu]

Omg Sammy Samasu is back.

Only God knows for how long.

vita's dead as shit

almost as dead as Zelda in Japan

all hail Mario Kart.

Iwata must be fuming, thanks God they have

Spoiler

Just Dance

!

 

[ksamedi]

Yep I wonder about Nintendo's next financial report, Mario 3D Land, Mario Kart 7 and the 3DS in general did great along with the tail of the Just Dance/Zumba Fitness hype that kept the Wii trucking but games like Zelda clearly underperformed. I can see their results swing into both losses and profits depending on the additional cash they sunk into the Wii U and 3DS's panic plan.

I think its impossible for them to get out of the red this fiscal year. They are already about 800 million dollars in the red and selling the 3DS at a loss. It would be amazing if they still managed to make a small profit this year. Next year will probably be very healthy, though, depending on how well the Wii U launch will go.

 

[Pooya]

I am baffled at how people think Final Fantasy XIII-2 are terrible numbers. Terrible? Really? It is selling well. Will hit a million. No?

if it has similar drop in other regions it will struggle to hit 2m world wide and that's terrible for a major FF game. I don't see why it wouldn't have a large drop in sales in other regions at this moment.

 

[RPGamer92]

I don't know what's worse, Vita mega-bombing or that there's no Vita games in the top 20

 

[Celine]

Dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead doomed dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead doomed dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead doomed dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead doomed dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead doomed dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead ds dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead doomed dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead

 

[djplaeskool]

if it has similar drop in other regions it will struggle to hit 2m world wide and that's terrible for a major FF game. I don't see why it wouldn't have a large drop in sales in other regions at this moment.

SE has made it a point to get a lot of major international gaming press into their regional offices for playtests and impressions of XIII-2 several times, long before it's actual release. The game is getting a LOT more preemptive positive buzz than XIII did. Will that offset post-XIII disappointment? Maybe....maybe not.

 

[Takao]

I hate that AR game, along with the crappy pool one.

 

[UncleSporky]

Not necessarily. There is still good evidence that the system is being sold at a loss.

I would be very interested in this evidence, if you have any links or data. Seriously, I don't doubt it at all, I'm just used to one specific quote being cited that always seemed dubious at best. (The Bloomberg Japan quote that seems to have been worded carefully to make it sound like Iwata said it was being sold at a loss.) If there's something in their financial reports that indicates it too, that'd be nice to see.

 

[Jinfash]

Only God knows for how long.

The lord is testing you. Stay strong, gurl.

 

[Jokeropia]

MH numbers are terribad

You can keep claiming this all you want, it still won't make it true.

 

[TheNatural]

There will be no stoppin'

Uh huh. It's when you go harder than someone.

This right here is Ninten-domination.

It's the combination of skill and concentration.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sby3CXsNH2Q

 

[faridmon]

17./12. [NDS] Magician's Quest: Osharena Mahoutsukai (Konami) {2011-12-10} - 50,074 / 131,184 (+43%)
18./20. [NDS] One Piece: Gigant Battle! 2 New World (Bandai Namco) {2011-11-17} - 49,921 / 257,379 (+76%)

Holy shit!

 

[ksamedi]

Totally disagree here. There is one thing the series does constantly which cannot be reproduced on a handheld: it's a JRPG that sells millions outside of Japan.

Yeah that´s a big problem with FF. I can imagine a handheld version doing very well for relatively low costs, yet lose sales outside Japan. Maybe with a good marketing push they can still achieve great numbers outside Japan, but that´s up for debate.

 

[Perfo]

SE has made it a point to get a lot of major international gaming press into their regional offices for playtests and impressions of XIII-2 several times, long before it's actual release. The game is getting a LOT more preemptive positive buzz than XIII did. Will that offset post-XIII disappointment? Maybe....maybe not.

Yeah, Square Enix's marketing for FFXIII-2 focused more on the west regions than Japan this time. If that will grant results must be seen, but I think it's clear that all the "operation FFXIII-2" was made with the west in mind. I hope it pays.

 

[ElFly]

Unless of course it's priced under $250 by the time it hits launch.

With the weak dollar as it is?

 

[UncleSporky]

vita's dead as shit

almost as dead as Zelda in Japan

all hail Mario Kart.

Too many syllables in the last two parts.

 

[duckroll]

This is another "smaller story but still interesting" this week. FF XIII-2 had a much smaller drop off, proportionally, than most mainline FF have had recently.

Of course, this is in part because 1) it's only psuedo-quasi-mainline, and 2) it started off so disastrously bad in the first place that a 90% drop was almost impossible.

I don't think 1) is really a factor here. I think the much bigger factor is that they shipped much more than they sold in the first week, which resulted in many retailers slashing the price rapidly during the holiday season, which probably contributed to a higher percentage of people who held off at launch deciding to pick it up after all at a discounted price. So I would say that it is a combination of 2) and the nature of the Japanese retail market.

Alternatively, there is another way to look at it, which does not discount the above conclusions, but helps to support it further. FFXIII-2 is also a game with built in DLC hooks, and a game designed to be more replayable than the normal RPG. We have no idea much real impact the word of mouth and consumer satisfaction is with the title has so far, but assuming that S-E's design decisions had a positive impact, it would mean that there are less used versions of the game being offloaded at stores, if players are happy to keep their game for the time being, which would also mean more new retail copies being sold post-launch.

As said retail copies are now easier to find for a lower price, that would also make them more appealing.