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[Sho_Nuff82]

I think there's an irony in the fact that Sony's more serious attempts at first-party commercial success in the west are ultimately being overshadowed by current third-party megafranchises.

It's not ironic - Sony's first party franchises outside of GT were never the reasons for their platforms' successes. Somewhere along the way the got the idea that they were. I was originally on the "MH for Vita is inevitable" train, but for every week that passes, it seems more and more likely that the fanbase is slowly but surely being dragged from PSP to 3DS. It really doesn't look like Sony has a master plan to reverse the current course, not at least until they can get the price down in the next 6-9 months.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

Not quite. Nintendo can always rely on its strong 1st party to bail them out, while Sony can't.

Sony needs moneyhats

 

[MikeE21286]

Sony needs moneyhats

Honestly, it woulnd't be the worst idea to open up their wallets.

 

[frankie_baby]

Sony needs moneyhats

does sony actually have money for the hats let alone the money to put in them

 

[mclem]

iOS and Smartphone development will keep Nintendo busy, no need to worry about that. Though i expect Nintendo to unveil a crapload of 3DS titles at e3 this year.

I'm thinking that the 3DS might take up a (slim) majority of their E3 conference, actually. It depends on how much Wii U stuff they actually have to talk about.

(And writing this does remind me that I ought to organise E3 Conference Bingo better this year. My random generator needs priming!)

 

[schuelma]

I'm thinking that the 3DS might take up a (slim) majority of their E3 conference, actually. It depends on how much Wii U stuff they actually have to talk about.

Considering the Wii U will be launching in less than 5 months from E3, I would hope Nintendo has a lot to show.

 

[mclem]

does sony actually have money for the hats let alone the money to put in them

I thought that moneyhats were hats *made* of money. I don't think they actually contain money as well.

 

[MatthewB92]

I'm thinking that the 3DS might take up a (slim) majority of their E3 conference, actually. It depends on how much Wii U stuff they actually have to talk about.

E3 will be about WiiU and 3DS. Might announce one random Wii or DS game but that's it.

 

[frankie_baby]

I thought that moneyhats were hats *made* of money. I don't think they actually contain money as well.

maybe you're right, i always thought they were hats filled with money, if you're right then sony definately cant afford the hats

could do with a lol smiley about now

 

[FoneBone]

Because Capcom lol.


I've never really seen an argument for MH-on-Vita that strikes me as good business sense without assuming some catastrophic failure meaning it's no longer viable on the 3DS. It's a series that's thrived on its local multiplayer (which inherently won't work crossplatform), which has also benefitted from keeping the userbase consistently moving from one title to another within a given platform. Purchasing a new title every few years is acceptable, but expecting someone who's already made the jump to 3DS to now *also* purchase a Vita for MH seems to be asking an awful lot.

You can't ever say never, of course. However, I think offering unique content in a new Vita release would annoy those people who've made the jump to 3DS. Those people who *haven't* made the jump? Yeah, they're a potential untapped audience for a Vita title, but then you're having to appeal to two distinct fanbases with a constant progression of unique releases, and is that really a sensible course of action?

Pretty much. I mean, a separate MH series on Vita makes more sense than an actual multiplatform MH4, but it still seems more like wishful thinking than something that would actually make business sense.

 

[jman2050]

On another note, I'm still somewhat surprised at how swiftly the DS got killed by Nintendo.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Sony needs moneyhats

If someone is going to invest in console quality development, they will get a bigger return just releasing it on 360/PS3.

Vita is a very awkward product to place, not only in the market but also in terms of how you develop for it.

 

[Takamura-San]

Makes me wonder if MH on the vita would've made that much of a difference.....

If it did... it's scary how much power capcom had over the future of a console.

Gravity Daze is not going to save the vita.... the vita needs a multiplayer game that makes people tell others to get it. MH on PSP was basically a MP game from what i gather.

 

[Luigiv]

sony needs all the buzz it can, there is only one possible reason for the retraction, its just flat out not true, wouldnt even surprise me if some of these supposed vita monhun rumours have been deliberately done by sony just to try and get some publicity

That's not really true. Capcom would take offensive was just letting their secrets out of the bag, willy nilly. We'll see what happens.

Rumour has it that this Vita MH will just be a straight port of MHP3. If that's the case, then that makes a lot of sense to me when considering the simultaneous MH3G and MH4 on 3DS. As discussed earlier in the thread, giving the Vita it's own original MH would just create confusion amongst the fans and unnecessarily split up the userbase, which could be detrimental to the series popularity. Releasing a straight port would, on the other hand, be a great way for Capcom to make a quick buck off the Monster Hunter starved Vita owners whilst still sending the message that they're not committing themselves to the platform, they're just throwing out a bone.

 

[GaussTek]

Thing is Nintendo is also bending for 3rd Party Support - they are publishing titles in the west, offering demos, paid dlc and stuff which probably would have been points that sony could have used to secure some exclusives.

But right now, with Nintendo improving their online plattform and the system sellin so well - most publishers will cater to the established userbase. They nintendo can`t and wont let the system die, price drop and MH Betrayal probably re-established that mindset. They arent screwin around this time.

I agree, and it was also a very strategical move. I bet a lot of people aren't buying Vita right now because they are waiting for a price cut 'just like Nintendo did'.

 

[duckroll]

If someone is going to invest in console quality development, they will get a bigger return just releasing it on 360/PS3.

Vita is a very awkward product to place, not only in the market but also in terms of how you develop for it.

This is an interesting comment, because it also highlights another reason why the PSP went on to do so well in Japan after the terrible early years. The PSP was in the similar situation where it was an awkward product to develop for simply because the PS2 had a much wider user base and there's no reason to make a really solid PSP game if you could make it a PS2 game instead.

Then what happened is the PS3 came into the market. Support for the PS2 started to wind down because the PS3 was pushed really hard as the successor. But PS3 games are more expensive to develop for, and many Japanese developers were interested in finding a way to retain that sort of develop cost and environment while still delivering such games to the market. So these naturally became PSP games.

 

[mclem]

Just wondering, where is the irony?

I'm guessing the fact that if you replaced 'Sony' with 'Nintendo' you could be talking about 1995. Third-party domination is what *made* the Playstation.

Aside from GT, Sony have pretty much always relied on third parties to move their systems, through each generation this was the case - they've tried to turn it around with the PS3 but it's only had a modest success, which is why I'm absolutely baffled they've let so many franchises go multiplatform, especially MH

On which thought... have Sony basically done all this themselves? They chase down tech as a huge selling point, the costs of meeting that tech means devs have to look into multiplatform releases, the costs of purchasing that tech means customers buy the multiplatform releases instead?

It seems like a completely selfdestructive cycle.

I wouldn't worry about the Vita; even thought it's a similar situation to the 3DS, and I never remember even that selling this low, it'll pick up Steam around E3 when all the cool games get announced.

Stealth announcement? If it did *that*, it'd be a whole different kettle of fish!

 

[BlazingDarkness]

This is an interesting comment, because it also highlights another reason why the PSP went on to do so well in Japan after the terrible early years. The PSP was in the similar situation where it was an awkward product to develop for simply because the PS2 had a much wider user base and there's no reason to make a really solid PSP game if you could make it a PS2 game instead.

Then what happened is the PS3 came into the market. Support for the PS2 started to wind down because the PS3 was pushed really hard as the successor. But PS3 games are more expensive to develop for, and many Japanese developers were interested in finding a way to retain that sort of develop cost and environment while still delivering such games to the market. So these naturally became PSP games.

Vita another late bloomer? Seems reasonable

 

[cw_sasuke]

I'm thinking that the 3DS might take up a (slim) majority of their E3 conference, actually. It depends on how much Wii U stuff they actually have to talk about.

(And writing this does remind me that I ought to organise E3 Conference Bingo better this year. My random generator needs priming!)

I dont know - e3 06 was the big Wii reveal but damn they got me hyped for the DS this year. Especially with brand new DS Lite and all those announcements. I think they`ll be able to repeat it this year.

On another note, I'm still somewhat surprised at how swiftly the DS got killed by Nintendo.

DS was seven year old at this point and sold over 32 million - it doesnt get any bigger.

 

[DECK'ARD]

That's not really true. Capcom would take offensive was just letting their secrets out of the bag, willy nilly. We'll see what happens.

Rumour has it that this Vita MH will just be a straight port of MHP3. If that's the case, then that makes a lot of sense to me when considering the simultaneous MH3G and MH4 on 3DS. As discussed earlier in the thread, giving the Vita it's own original MH would just create confusion amongst the fans and unnecessarily split up the userbase, which could be detrimental to the series popularity. Releasing a straight port would, on the other hand, be a great way for Capcom to make a quick buck off the Monster Hunter starved Vita owners whilst still sending the message that they're not committing themselves to the platform, they're just throwing out a bone.

And if you were Nintendo you would have stopped that happening when handing over lots of money, especially having been burnt before by Capcom.

I doubt anything will turn on up Vita until after MH4, it at all. Everything Capcom is doing now is about transferring the PSP userbase to 3DS is readiness for 4. 4 is their focus and cashcow, throwing scraps to Vita in the meantime is counterproductive.

 

[Galang]

Nice @ Gravity Daze sales! Game did a lot better than I expected, but I never really saw it as a game to push a lot of hardware.

Also revelations is holding a lot better than I expected too, pretty nice.

 

[Spiegel]

If I were Sony, in 2010 when MHP3 was in development, I would have funded MHP3G entirely for PSP and Vita to have it ready at launch with a small extra demo of MH next gen with fancy graphics for Vita. It wouldn't have mattered if it really wasn't a game planned at that point. But I'm sure Sony must have thought about this too and it simply wasn't possible. For one, MH3G was surely in planning stages.


PSP was MH, the more famous clones (PSP, GE) and original Final Fantasy games. To not have any of that or something similar announced at this point shows how mind-blowingly bad their Vita software planning have been.

 

[Mpl90]

Oh God

 

[BishopLamont]

Probably a bit off topic, but it is an interesting question as to how much of Nintendo's lessons learned with the 3DS can apply to their Wii U strategy. Some lessons are obvious and things Nintendo can improve upon- like having a better launch lineup. Some others (take away your competition's main 3rd party franchise and get notable 3rd party franchises in the systems first year) seem much more difficult to achieve with the Wii U.

Its easier than you think. Western developers are opposites of Japanese devs, they're multiplatform so all you need is a machine that has enough power to be ported to. Nintendo just has to find the right balance between power and price, they're gonna want to price it low enough to get a good head start on the competition similiar to how the 360 started, and to be competitive with the systems thats out now, it'll depend on how good their launch lineup is and how the current gen systems are trending here on out. When it comes to power, its safe to say Sony and MS is not going for crazy tech gap again like last gen and Nintendo is also not going to be going poor man's tech either. Just get the online right and please third parties, their first party - as always, will get the job done.

 

[iavi]

Nice @ the Gravity Daze sales, and that's without knowing how much it moved on PSN. It really couldn't spark any interest in the Vita though...Unfortunate.

 

[Luigiv]

This is an interesting comment, because it also highlights another reason why the PSP went on to do so well in Japan after the terrible early years. The PSP was in the similar situation where it was an awkward product to develop for simply because the PS2 had a much wider user base and there's no reason to make a really solid PSP game if you could make it a PS2 game instead.

Then what happened is the PS3 came into the market. Support for the PS2 started to wind down because the PS3 was pushed really hard as the successor. But PS3 games are more expensive to develop for, and many Japanese developers were interested in finding a way to retain that sort of develop cost and environment while still delivering such games to the market. So these naturally became PSP games.

Yes but the PSP was the natural choice because the system was already mildly successful at that stage (due to MH, which itself had nothing to do with that mentality). Before the same thing can happen on Vita, the system needs to get a good footing without this support first.

 

[cw_sasuke]

If I were Sony, in 2010 when MHP3 was in development, I would have funded MHP3G entirely for PSP and Vita to have it ready at launch with a small extra demo of MH next gen with fancy graphics for Vita. It wouldn't have mattered if it really wasn't a game planned at that point. But I'm sure Sony must have thought about this too and it simply wasn't possible. For one, MH3G was surely in planning stages.


PSP was MH, their more famous clones (PSP, GE) and original Final Fantasy games. To not have any of that or something similar announced at this point shows how mind-blowingly bad their Vita software planning have been.

Its really weird how the just let MH slide. Its like they didnt even care about the Japanese market and would be happy if Vita could succeed in the west. Though this assumes Sony would be willing to spend more than Nintendo would to secure an MH title.

And lets be honest, at the end the only reason why there was no MH on the DS was because it wasnt powerful enough. So it should be too surprising that Capcom would want to get their biggest IP on the successor of the DS as fast as possible.

 

[RurouniZel]

Oh God

Lolololol. Hilarious and sad all at once!

 

[jman2050]

And people wonder why there were lines for Love Plus.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

2 Mario games within 10 months of a new system? Hell yeah it's panic mode.

Nintendo: In Panic Mode since 1889

07.15.83 Famicom
07.15.83 Donkey Kong
07.15.83 Donkey Kong Jr.
09.09.83 Mario Bros.

02.21.86 Famicom Disc System
02.21.86 Super Mario Bros.
06.03.86 Super Mario Bros. 2

07.21.95 Virtual Boy
07.21.95 Mario's Tennis
09.28.95 Mario Clash

06.23.96 Nintendo 64
06.23.96 Super Mario 64
12.14.96 Mario Kart 64

10.21.98 Game Boy Color
04.08.99 Game & Watch Gallery 2
08.10.99 Mario Golf

03.21.01 Game Boy Advance
03.21.01 Super Mario Advance
07.21.01 Mario Kart: Super Circuit
12.14.01 Super Mario World: Super Mario Advance 2

09.14.01 Nintendo Gamecube
09.14.01 Luigi's Mansion
07.19.02 Super Mario Sunshine

12.02.04 Nintendo DS
12.02.04 Super Mario 64 DS
01.27.05 Yoshi: Touch & Go!

12.02.06 Wii
04.19.07 Super Paper Mario
07.26.07 Mario Party 8
09.20.07 Mario Strikers: Charged

12.24.08 Nintendo DSi
12.24.08 Dr. Mario Express
02.25.09 Mario Calculator
04.01.09 Mario Clock
10.07.09 Mario vs Donkey Kong: Minis March Again

 

[Smiles and Cries]

Oh God

what the hell

 

[DECK'ARD]

This is an interesting comment, because it also highlights another reason why the PSP went on to do so well in Japan after the terrible early years. The PSP was in the similar situation where it was an awkward product to develop for simply because the PS2 had a much wider user base and there's no reason to make a really solid PSP game if you could make it a PS2 game instead.

Then what happened is the PS3 came into the market. Support for the PS2 started to wind down because the PS3 was pushed really hard as the successor. But PS3 games are more expensive to develop for, and many Japanese developers were interested in finding a way to retain that sort of develop cost and environment while still delivering such games to the market. So these naturally became PSP games.

Yeah, PSP was bolstered by PS2 and an unwillingness to jump into HD.

I'm not sure Vita will benefit in the same way though as we enter a new generation, as the line has been crossed into very expensive development costs. PS2 was still manageable, 3DS is still manageable and obviously now an attractive proposition with how it is selling now. 3DS if it continues will cannibalise both the DS/PSP handheld market, which in terms of how many people you have to draw on for dedicated handheld sales may be basically all of them.

That's the reason for Nintendo's change of course and very aggressive strategy with 3rd parties. They want it all.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

Can Sony afford a Vita price cut?

you guys seem to talk about it like its a smart move right now

 

[BishopLamont]

Can Sony afford a Vita price cut?

you guys seem to talk about it like its a smart move right now

Even if they can afford it, is it worth it?

 

[I Stalk Alone]

Maybe the Vita will be lucky that the 3DS will not get a redesign until maybe around the start of the next japanese fiscal year in 2013. If vita can get a price drop to around ¥19,900 with a memory bundle by then and have a major release around that time maybe they can turn things around in japan.

Nintendo will not spread themselves out and do two hardware releases at the end of this year so there is a high chance some new redesign (bigger or smaller) for the 3DS will come around the early april next year coinciding with a launch of a 3DS only pokemom and smash brothers to follow. I think the lull after E3 is when the VITA should strike if it can afford to as nintendo will be very busy ramping up for WiiU and might loosen their grip in the handheld space for a few months. but it can be argued that WiiU being a tablet will also take away from VITA so who knows what will happen during that time.


Sony will need to be aggresssive with their plans for the next fiscal year regarding vita. I say as soon as they have a major system selling game announced for release this year they should drop the price about four or five weeks before release and go on an unprecedented marketing blitz.

Sony cannot do anything now as they have no big software releases and it will be a tough few months but I think sony are now expecting this and are ready to make announcements in april.

Two handhelds in Japan is good for competition and so developers can get some bargaining happening hopefully in their favour. What else can sony do to ride out this storm in the short term of around 7 weeks before they are able to make these new announcements for the next financial year?

It looks really tough for them at the moment with all the bad press attention the vita has been getting. Could be another GC situation if they are not careful. PSP had consistent software announcements in the beginning which helped garner confidence for other developer announcements since support was already there. This time it is a little different in that support has not been forthcoming and it is this reason that Sony needs to get its act together and start securing some development support worth mentioning.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Can Sony afford a Vita price cut?

you guys seem to talk about it like its a smart move right now

Losing money on hardware, and would be quite a hefty loss if the price-cut is going to have a significant impact, will be the last thing they want to do.

Also if not backed by software it won't have a long-term effect. They are in a catch-22 situation at the moment, need to get an install base to justify ongoing development for a second wave of software it badly needs.

The Western release really needs to bolster it's position, but I'd say that's completely up in the air at the moment how it will go. Not going to be a walk in the park though.

 

[TheBioLover]

Sony NEEDS to announce some more system sellers. Tell Activision to hurry the fuck up with CoD Vita, same with Ubisoft for Assassin's Creed Vita. BioShock Vita could be a system seller as well.

 

[Cygnus X-1]

Vita is really trending down dangerously. With nothing noteworthy at all in the horizon, and probably the only worthwhile title coming out anytime remotely soon being Persona 4 Golden... it's not going to be good for Sony at all.

Hardware sales seem to have touched the bottom though.

 

[Kazerei]

Hardware sales seem to have touched the bottom though.

I dunno about that...

 

[BishopLamont]

Sony NEEDS to announce some more system sellers. Tell Activision to hurry the fuck up with CoD Vita, same with Ubisoft for Assassin's Creed Vita. BioShock Vita could be a system seller as well.

Too bad none of that will help Japan sales.

But 3rd party still dominates the 1st party on Playstation platforms So i dont quite see where the irony part about Sony making more first party games is.



Haha.

Big fish in a small pond.

 

[test_account]

I'm guessing the fact that if you replaced 'Sony' with 'Nintendo' you could be talking about 1995. Third-party domination is what *made* the Playstation.

But 3rd party still dominates the 1st party on Playstation platforms So i dont quite see what is ironic with Sony making more first party games.

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/kotaku/2011/12/loveplus.jpg

Oh God

Haha.

 

[Gambit]

Sony NEEDS to announce some more system sellers. Tell Activision to hurry the fuck up with CoD Vita, same with Ubisoft for Assassin's Creed Vita. BioShock Vita could be a system seller as well.

for the Japanese market? I think none of these are system sellers

 

[Father_Brain]

Sony NEEDS to announce some more system sellers. Tell Activision to hurry the fuck up with CoD Vita, same with Ubisoft for Assassin's Creed Vita. BioShock Vita could be a system seller as well.

AC and CoD are still big question marks, but BioShock only existed on paper as of last October. It's not going to be ready until mid-2013 at the earliest, by which point it's more likely than not that Vita's ultimate success or failure will already have been decided.

As for Western launch numbers: I don't think it'll utterly bomb like some are predicting (<200K in the Feb. NPD), but the best-case scenario I can envision is slightly better than 3DS' first month (450K max).

 

[duckroll]

Yes but the PSP was the natural choice because the system was already mildly successful at that stage (due to MH, which itself had nothing to do with that mentality). Before the same thing can happen on Vita, the system needs to get a good footing without this support first.

It really wasn't just MH. I think I've thrown out the numbers before, and I don't really want to get all the numbers together now again to illustrate the point (unless there's a huge interest in the subject, then I could do it tomorrow), but basically while MHP remains the biggest success on the PSP in Japan, the franchise started booming on the PSP along with several other releases, and it can be seen that developers and publishers were already making more and more PS2 level titles for PSP during the 2005-2006 period, which coincides with when MHP was first released and started to gain popularity. It was a combined process and the other games also helped MHP, because the series didn't become super huge over night.

The general flow of more constant software helped the PSP sell, and as more people got the system they gravitated around MHP as a series. It's not like they released MHP and suddenly everyone bought a PSP on day one because they had been waiting for this game. The MH series wasn't even that popular on the PS2 in comparison. The explosion of MHP fever really only started in 2007-2008, by which time the PSP already had quite a number of ~200k+ titles.

The combination of MHP2's explosion along with having number series which were doing over 200k at the time with multiple releases over the years (Tales, Gundam, MGS) definitely triggered a much larger wave of developers to move in after that, as evidenced by the increase in software offerings each year moving forward from 2007. By then, it is as you said, the natural choice, but it didn't get there entirely on MHP alone.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Sony NEEDS to announce some more system sellers. Tell Activision to hurry the fuck up with CoD Vita, same with Ubisoft for Assassin's Creed Vita. BioShock Vita could be a system seller as well.

The lack of announcements really compounds the price problem. Even with the 3DS we knew MK, 3D Land, Kingdom Hearts, Metal Gear and everything else was coming long before launch. The system had a future mapped out, up to you when you jumped in and at what price but you knew what was coming. And we still know what big hitters are to come, plus anything else that is announced.

If publishers adopt a wait and see approach, so will consumers, and the combination of both could be fatal.

Vita looks to have as many people in the industry questioning it as outside it, due to the cost of developing for it, the track-record of PSP's software sales, and made worse by the problems in Japan. If the Western release turns some of this round then good, if it doesn't it's going to be very hard to fix indeed.

 

[Lethality]

Oh God

Can't burn the image out of my eyes!!! OH GOD!!!

 

[gkryhewy]

Hardware sales seem to have touched the bottom though.

Based on what? It just declined about 20% W-O-W in a week when it had the number two piece of software. Sub-10k sales incoming, possibly as soon as next week.

As for Western launch numbers: I don't think it'll utterly bomb like some are predicting (<200K in the Feb. NPD), but the best-case scenario I can envision is slightly better than 3DS' first month (450K max).

200k is much likelier than 450k IMO, but this is the MC thread.

 

[Nairume]

Hardware sales seem to have touched the bottom though.

That's what people said when it hit 15k and then went back up. Now it's at 13k.

 

[BishopLamont]

It really wasn't just MH. I think I've thrown out the numbers before, and I don't really want to get all the numbers together now again to illustrate the point (unless there's a huge interest in the subject, then I could do it tomorrow), but basically while MHP remains the biggest success on the PSP in Japan, the franchise started booming on the PSP along with several other releases, and it can be seen that developers and publishers were already making more and more PS2 level titles for PSP during the 2005-2006 period, which coincides with when MHP was first released and started to gain popularity. It was a combined process and the other games also helped MHP, because the series didn't become super huge over night.

The general flow of more constant software helped the PSP sell, and as more people got the system they gravitated around MHP as a series. It's not like they released MHP and suddenly everyone bought a PSP on day one because they had been waiting for this game. The MH series wasn't even that popular on the PS2 in comparison. The explosion of MHP fever really only started in 2007-2008, by which time the PSP already had quite a number of ~200k+ titles.

The combination of MHP2's explosion along with having number series which were doing over 200k at the time with multiple releases over the years (Tales, Gundam, MGS) definitely triggered a much larger wave of developers to move in after that, as evidenced by the increase in software offerings each year moving forward from 2007. By then, it is as you said, the natural choice, but it didn't get there entirely on MHP alone.

Right. PSP always had third party support, maybe not to the degree of DS, but it still had games that either wasn't possible on the DS, or sold shitty, or would have sold shitty had it been made on the DS instead. It always had its own niche of "non-ugly 3D games". MH kicked start the PSP as the mini successor to the DS.

 

[gamergirly]

Good sales. Vita needs something to pump it up