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[ghostlyjoe]

Y'all are arguing a moot point. The DS has been an incredible success, but even a rudimentary look at NPD and MediaCreate numbers indicate that the PSP has been quite a success as well, and the GBA continues to be a solid presence across the board.

So, Sony fans, take heart. Sony entered the portable arena at a great time -- it's a popular device even at a high price point, the market seems to be expanding, and there seems to be a well-balanced tier system in effect (the GBA at the low end, the DS in the middle and the PSP at the high end). All three systems have distinct capabilities and software libraries, making them quite complimentary.

Isn't it possible that -- just maybe -- these "competing" systems are actually working in tandem to raise the profile of portable gaming and make it more mainstream? Isn't it possible that these handhelds are feeding off one another, creating momentum for the market as a whole? Is it possible that Sony's introduction of the PSP is actually helping drive interest in the DS (all the PSP hype has more people investigating a handheld purchase; a fair percentage of those new customers might ultimately opt for a DS or GBA instead based on price or software); and vice versa)?

Let's stop antagonizing one another and, if you're a true supporter of either system, recognize that the overall market growth might not have been possible without this convergence of influences.

 

[puck1337]

I am not knocking anything on the PSP or touting anything on the DS here. The fact is that this handheld generation is a year old now and the DS has a dinstinct worldwide advantage, a distinct advantage in their native territory, a sales lead and upwards momentum in the US, and a close race in the UK. For Sony to "flip all of that around" would seriously be unprecedented in the history of video games.

At this point I would be surprised to see the handheld landscape changing much. Budgets are already being dictated on where sales and momentum are now. and with the two systems being 100% incompatible it's not like something that is in development for the DS now could be moved to the PSP later (or vice versa)

Things change very quickly in this industry. I'm not saying that they will change, just that they can, and very unexpectedly. There are only a handful of titles released each year that can exert a real influence on a system's sales. Add to or subtract from that number, and a platform's fortunes can change rather quickly.

 

[btrboyev]

Y'all are arguing a moot point. The DS has been an incredible success, but even a rudimentary look at NPD and MediaCreate numbers indicate that the PSP has been quite a success as well, and the GBA continues to be a solid presence across the board.

So, Sony fans, take heart. Sony entered the portable arena at a great time -- it's a popular device even at a high price point, the market seems to be expanding, and there seems to be a well-balanced tier system in effect (the GBA at the low end, the DS in the middle and the PSP at the high end). All three systems have distinct capabilities and software libraries, making them quite complimentary.

Isn't it possible that -- just maybe -- these "competing" systems are actually working in tandem to raise the profile of portable gaming and make it more mainstream? Isn't it possible that these handhelds are feeding off one another, creating momentum for the market as a whole? Is it possible that Sony's introduction of the PSP is actually helping drive interest in the DS (all the PSP hype has more people investigating a handheld purchase; a fair percentage of those new customers might ultimately opt for a DS or GBA instead based on price or software); and vice versa)?

Let's stop antagonizing one another and, if you're a true supporter of either system, recognize that the overall market growth might not have been possible without this convergence of influences.

its still selling decently, but its not selling software, Sony should be worried.

 

[xaosslug]

the DS has something like a 2 million system lead worldwide, MOST of that being in both systems' native territory, not to mention sales leadership and momentum in two of the three territories. AND AND AND PSP already released one of it's three ace in the holes with no proper MGS game announced and GT-psp a ways off yet. Not to mention one of Sony's usual other aces, square, is supporting the DS far more than PSP.

I mean anything can happen I suppose, but at this point it would take a (unprecedented) miracle for Sony to swipe leadership from nintendo in handhelds. When a system is leading a year into the generation by like 20% (or whatever it is) the generation has pretty much been set. About the closest case I can come to breaking that is SNES and Genesis, though SNES launched two years later not to mention that was the previous encumbent displacing the (figuratively) new upstart.

there's that word again. i think Izzy has said, many times, that PSP's SquareEnix support has only just begun. nobody knew anything of a Valkyrie Profile port before it was officially anounced. next year, my friend, next year.

Uh... Popolocrois was hand drawn, Arc used sprites and prerendered backdrops and Wild Arms/LOD were realtime 3D. Unless you're talking about cinemas, but then RG has amazingly impressive rendered cinemas. :/

Anyone who expected 200k or less for RG is a straight up moron.

yes, i'm talking CGI cinemas. and, though impressive in their own right and field, not on the same level as say FFXII's opening cinema, IMO. i <3 RG, by-the-by.

i am not a moron! name calling ain't cool, dude.

 

[soundwave05]

Nintendo really hasn't played their biggest trump card yet though ...

Pokemon.

And the other one is DS going to $99 next year ... that I think will cause large sales surges in North America, because it'll basically inherit all of the GBAs sales ... and GBA still kicks the shit out of both DS and PSP in North America right now.

DS sales will be bigger overall next year.

Impressive sales for Mario Kart DS, 1 million in Japan seems in the bag now.

 

[ghostlyjoe]

its still selling decently, but its not selling software, Sony should be worried.

It's selling very well -- in all territories. And software sales are stronger in U.S. and Europe than Japan. And UMD movies have perfomed quite well, too. What should Sony be worrying about? Unless they're in this race simply for bragging rights (HAHA, we outsold you! Na nee na!), they should be seeing real possibilites for substantial profits. Sony is a business, not a fanboy clubhouse.

 

[ghostlyjoe]

Nintendo really hasn't played their biggest trump card yet though ...

Pokemon.

And the other one is DS going to $99 next year ... that I think will cause large sales surges in North America, because it'll basically inherit all of the GBAs sales ... and GBA still kicks the shit out of both DS and PSP in North America right now.

DS sales will be bigger overall next year.

Impressive sales for Mario Kart DS, 1 million in Japan seems in the bag now.

Pokemon is popular. But be real. Nintendogs WAS the trump card. It gave them the lead, and they had a solid hand to back it up (MK, AC, etc.).

 

[Kevtones]

Not only is the PSP getting blown away in Japan, but its starting to have a serious lack of "momentum" in the US. People are getting tired with ports and crap. They don't want a GTA player it seems. At least this is what I'm getting at my Game Crazy. The only reason I ever sell PSPs these days is to get some damn commission because everyone and there mother needs a service contract on one of them. Overall I'd say the DS, at my store, all bundles, has been doing about 8 to 1 vs. the PSP this holiday season. Pretty staggering. Too bad we're so fucking sold out of Castlevania/Animal Crossing/Mario Kart/Advance Wars etc Someone actually bought Burnout Legends and King Kong as the two christmas games! AGH!

 

[Razoric]

It's selling very well -- in all territories. And software sales are stronger in U.S. and Europe than Japan. And UMD movies have perfomed quite well, too. What should Sony be worrying about? Unless they're in this race simply for bragging rights (HAHA, we outsold you! Na nee na!), they should be seeing real possibilites for substantial profits. Sony is a business, not a fanboy clubhouse.

Sony does that all the time. Fuck they did it with the PSP like 2 weeks ago. "PSP is the fastest to 10 million."

Sony is the king of bragging rights and they are losing it when it comes to the portable race. It seems nobody wanted out of the handheld ghetto afterall. :lol

But I agree with your initial post, I have both a PSP and DS and love them equally. I hope they both survive and do well.

 

[ThunderEmperor]

It's selling very well -- in all territories. And software sales are stronger in U.S. and Europe than Japan. And UMD movies have perfomed quite well, too. What should Sony be worrying about? Unless they're in this race simply for bragging rights (HAHA, we outsold you! Na nee na!), they should be seeing real possibilites for substantial profits. Sony is a business, not a fanboy clubhouse.

the should be worried, casue they are still not making a profit of the system and the selling of gams is what they are supposed to make profit from.

 

[ghostlyjoe]

Nintendo really hasn't played their biggest trump card yet though ...

Pokemon.

And the other one is DS going to $99 next year ... that I think will cause large sales surges in North America, because it'll basically inherit all of the GBAs sales ... and GBA still kicks the shit out of both DS and PSP in North America right now.

DS sales will be bigger overall next year.

Impressive sales for Mario Kart DS, 1 million in Japan seems in the bag now.

It's not going to inherit as many GBA sales as you think. Parents are dubious of the DS for younger children because of the complexity of the touchscreen/stylus control, and the SP is still by far the most attractive gaming device to that market.

For all Nintendo's talk about streamlined, intuitive interfaces, the GBA is still the simpler device and more attractive to those shopping for children.

 

[soundwave05]

It's not going to inherit as many GBA sales as you think. Parents are dubious of the DS for younger children because of the complexity of the touchscreen/stylus control, and the SP is still by far the most attractive gaming device to that market.

For all Nintendo's talk about streamlined, intuitive interfaces, the GBA is still the simpler device and more attractive to those shopping for children.

I really don't think so.

In North America I hear people still call it the "Game Boy DS" all the time ... when it gets to $99, especailly with the fact that it's getting a lot more software now, it'll basically take more of the GBA sales.

It's inevitable.

Nintendogs is easier to play than just about any GBA game to boot and there will be more software like that in the future.

What Nintendo really needs to do is get out a more compact DS redesign, just as they did with the GBA SP.

DS sales will defintiely be bigger next year.

 

[Kevtones]

I really don't think so.

In North America I hear people still call it the "Game Boy DS" all the time ...

I find that funny because thats what it is called in the Game Crazy computer system

 

[ghostlyjoe]

the should be worried, casue they are still not making a profit of the system and the selling of gams is what they are supposed to make profit from.

They set an unprofitable price point to help build and installed base, which they are doing. If they were worred about profitablility after 1 year, they would have priced the PSP higher. I doubt they're panicking at this point. It could be argued that the DS and PSP are selling independently (not cannibalizing one another's sales). Sony should be looking at PSP sales, not DS sales, and it has performed based on their own internal projections.

 

[ghostlyjoe]

I really don't think so.

In North America I hear people still call it the "Game Boy DS" all the time ... when it gets to $99, especailly with the fact that it's getting a lot more software now, it'll basically take more of the GBA sales.

It's inevitable.

Nintendogs is easier to play than just about any GBA game to boot and there will be more software like that in the future.

What Nintendo really needs to do is get out a more compact DS redesign, just as they did with the GBA SP.

DS sales will defintiely be bigger next year.

Nintendogs is very easy and intuitive. Advance Wars is far more complex than the GBA counterparts because of the dual-screen functions. As a whole, the DS is more awkward for a child to use and is more vulnerable to abuse.

I'm not really trying to shout you down, and I hope it doesn't come off that way. This is just the impression I get based on logical extrapolation and some anecdotal evidence.

 

[borghe]

Things change very quickly in this industry.

I don't agree with this. Nothing changes very quickly in this industry. There is change, but it happens over time. And it is never unexpected when it happens. As you said, there are only a few games a year which influence sales (which I agree with) and we pretty much know about those games for a minimum of 6 months or more before release.

there's that word again. i think Izzy has said, many times, that PSP's SquareEnix support has only just begun. nobody knew anything of a Valkyrie Profile port before it was officially anounced. next year, my friend, next year.

I really see no reason to respond to these. at this point you are two steps away from sounding like megat*n all over again. I will say that I don't see VP being the tip of the iceberg. to me it looks more like the typical second place support SquareEnix has been throwing the runner up since announcing Q and FF:CC. But if you look which unit clearly has the most support from SE, the answer is obviously DS.

 

[xaosslug]

Nintendo really hasn't played their biggest trump card yet though ...

Pokemon.

And the other one is DS going to $99 next year ... that I think will cause large sales surges in North America, because it'll basically inherit all of the GBAs sales ... and GBA still kicks the shit out of both DS and PSP in North America right now.

DS sales will be bigger overall next year.

Impressive sales for Mario Kart DS, 1 million in Japan seems in the bag now.

i'm gonna go right ahead and doubt that. sorry.

when PS3 comes out, i expect Sony to drop prices across the board. who's to say the much sought after, but seemingly out of reach from a justifiable portable gaming device price point, PSP won't detour $199 and go straight to $149, the sweet spot the dominating DS hit? what if next year SquareEnix re-releases FFVII through FFIX PSP exclusive and it does gangbusters above and beyond the competition? what them?

 

[soundwave05]

Nintendogs is very easy and intuitive. Advance Wars is far more complex than the GBA counterparts because of the dual-screen functions. As a whole, the DS is more awkward for a child to use and is more vulnerable to abuse.

I'm not really trying to shout you down, and I hope it doesn't come off that way. This is just the impression I get based on logical extrapolation and some anecdotal evidence.

The thing is its the kids that make the decision anyway, not the parents.

The parents usually are the ones who just want to buy the cheapest one possible "littly Johnny what about a Game Boy SP instead?" ... I don't think most parents know the first thing of how the DS or SP are different aside from when they get to the store and look at the price.

Believe me I never heard "why don't you stick with your NES, the SNES with its added X, Y and L/R buttons is too complicated for you" from my parents back in the day :lol

Kids know, because they'll have one of their friends bring DS + Nintendogs to school and then at recess they'll all crowd around it.

 

[Frankfurter]

It's selling very well -- in all territories.

Neither PSP nor DS sold 'well' in the past ~3 months in the USA. About 360k for each of them in November imho is quite near to ... bad. It's about what Gamecube sold in last years November, although PSP has GTA and DS Mario Kart!

 

[soundwave05]

i'm gonna go right ahead and doubt that. sorry.

when PS3 comes out, i expect Sony to drop prices across the board. who's to say the much sought after, but seemingly out of reach from a justifiable portable gaming device price point, PSP won't detour $199 and go straight to $149, the sweet spot the dominating DS hit? what if next year SquareEnix re-releases FFVII through FFIX PSP exclusive and it does gangbusters above and beyond the competition? what them?

At this point, FFVII-IX could just as easily end up on the DS, so who the fuck knows. DS is really kicking the snot out of the PSP in Japan and don't think Square-Enix hasn't noticed.

We know Pokemon is coming and we know where that's going.

I don't think Sony can eat massive losses on the PSP with the PS3 coming out at the same time, I can see a $199 price drop, but beyond that, is getting into wishful thinking territory.

 

[xaosslug]

I don't agree with this. Nothing changes very quickly in this industry. There is change, but it happens over time. And it is never unexpected when it happens. As you said, there are only a few games a year which influence sales (which I agree with) and we pretty much know about those games for a minimum of 6 months or more before release.


I really see no reason to respond to these. at this point you are two steps away from sounding like megat*n all over again. I will say that I don't see VP being the tip of the iceberg. to me it looks more like the typical second place support SquareEnix has been throwing the runner up since announcing Q and FF:CC. But if you look which unit clearly has the most support from SE, the answer is obviously DS.

oh, I’m no insider. never said i was. it's all hopeful speculation/expectation. not unlike most Nintendo fans' for PSP's premature failure.

 

[Doogdogg]

i'm gonna go right ahead and doubt that. sorry.

when PS3 comes out, i expect Sony to drop prices across the board. who's to say the much sought after, but seemingly out of reach from a justifiable portable gaming device price point, PSP won't detour $199 and go straight to $149, the sweet spot the dominating DS hit? what if next year SquareEnix re-releases FFVII through FFIX PSP exclusive and it does gangbusters above and beyond the competition? what them?

Unless they're completely re-makes, I don't see them selling that well. Look at the ports for GBA, they sell around 100-200k-ish.

Final Fantasy III remake is SE's biggest handheld title in their history. That's coming to DS.

 

[borghe]

It's not going to inherit as many GBA sales as you think. Parents are dubious of the DS for younger children because of the complexity of the touchscreen/stylus control, and the SP is still by far the most attractive gaming device to that market.

as a parent, and in direct contact with many parents who gave DSes as xmas gifts this year, I can handidly disagree with this statement. DS is typically seen as MORE intuitive than the GBA because of the touchscreen. especially given that the big sellers either use the touchscreen exclusively (AC, dogs) or don't use the touch aspect of it at all and use the second screen in a very intuitive way (MKS).

Just saying, this xmas I saw probably almost a dozen and a half DSes given out to kids I know, all the way down to 7. This is a) more than any other handheld given out at one time and b) probably the one system I have seen given to "younger" gamers more than any other, including GBA.

Not only will pokemon see every last one of those GBA sales, but by the time it comes out (next year?) there will be a whole new generation of pokemon players ready to go with their DSes. Pokemon DS could seriously be the best selling poekmon of all time. And if Nintendo puts it online from the start, replace 'could' in that previous sentence with 'will'.

oh, I’m no insider. never said i was. it's all hopeful speculation/expectation. not unlike most Nintendo fans' for PSP's premature failure.

if this is referring to me, then it is in fact you who is calling the PSP a failure. All I am saying is that trends are pretty much set. How PSP and DS are selling is likely to be how they sell here on out with little fluctuation. Nowhere have I said PSP is a failure. It is you who is saying I am saying it is a failure, because I am saying it likely won't outsell DS. It is you who is getting fairly defensive (with blind "YOU WAIT AND SEE"'s) when being told this.

If PSP manages to outsell DS worldwide, so be it. But at this point that would literally be a first in the history of video games. Hell, if it even just breaks its trend set from its first year of sales that would be a first in the history of video games.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Y'all are arguing a moot point. The DS has been an incredible success, but even a rudimentary look at NPD and MediaCreate numbers indicate that the PSP has been quite a success as well, and the GBA continues to be a solid presence across the board.

So, Sony fans, take heart. Sony entered the portable arena at a great time -- it's a popular device even at a high price point, the market seems to be expanding, and there seems to be a well-balanced tier system in effect (the GBA at the low end, the DS in the middle and the PSP at the high end). All three systems have distinct capabilities and software libraries, making them quite complimentary.

Isn't it possible that -- just maybe -- these "competing" systems are actually working in tandem to raise the profile of portable gaming and make it more mainstream? Isn't it possible that these handhelds are feeding off one another, creating momentum for the market as a whole? Is it possible that Sony's introduction of the PSP is actually helping drive interest in the DS (all the PSP hype has more people investigating a handheld purchase; a fair percentage of those new customers might ultimately opt for a DS or GBA instead based on price or software); and vice versa)?

Let's stop antagonizing one another and, if you're a true supporter of either system, recognize that the overall market growth might not have been possible without this convergence of influences.

I agree with what you're saying. The thing is, EVERYONE was predicting that the PSP would mop the floor with the DS, and that this would (really, we meant it this time) be the downfall of Nintendo. No one expected the DS to do nearly this well... people would have, at best, expected it to merely "keep up" with the PSP from day 1.

Basically, people are so surprised that they can't help but focus on Nintendo's unexpected success. A lot of people thought their whole talk about non-games was a load of BS, but they've proven to be exactly correct so far.

What Nintendo is doing has the potential to change the gaming industry, even if they aren't #1 in sales worldwide. The success of the DS and its non-games in Japan, coupled with the (expected) transfer of that success to the Revolution, will encourage Japanese developers to embrace new control schemes and new styles of games. And I think we can all agree that, even though Japan may not be the overall largest gaming market, it still has the most power when it comes to game development and publishing. So, if Nintendo succeeds in Japan, then the japanese game development community and game industry may also change along with them, which will change the entire global gaming industry due to the power of Japanese developers and publishers.

That's why I think people are so focussed on Nintendo's success and why it has GAF in a frenzy.

 

[Yamauchi]

I could end up being totally wrong, but I don't think Sony is going to drop the price of the PSP significantly in the coming months. The new president is on a cost-cutting campaign with Sony expected to post a loss this year of $100 million. The tie ratio for the PSP is dismal, so they aren't making up for the hardware loss on licensing fees. However, the PSP has been a success for the most part. It's selling steadily in NA, the EU, and doing quite well in Japan. It's just overshadowed by the DS's mega-success, which now accounts for over 50% of the Japanese gaming market.

 

[The Faceless Master]

as a parent, and in direct contact with many parents who gave DSes as xmas gifts this year, I can handidly disagree with this statement. DS is typically seen as MORE intuitive than the GBA because of the touchscreen. especially given that the big sellers either use the touchscreen exclusively (AC, dogs) or don't use the touch aspect of it at all and use the second screen in a very intuitive way (MKS).

Just saying, this xmas I saw probably almost a dozen and a half DSes given out to kids I know, all the way down to 7. This is a) more than any other handheld given out at one time and b) probably the one system I have seen given to "younger" gamers more than any other, including GBA.

Not only will pokemon see every last one of those GBA sales, but by the time it comes out (next year?) there will be a whole new generation of pokemon players ready to go with their DSes. Pokemon DS could seriously be the best selling poekmon of all time. And if Nintendo puts it online from the start, replace 'could' in that previous sentence with 'will'.

man, reading that paragraph almost gives me chills thinking about the kind of monster hit an online pokemon game on ds could be...

 

[soundwave05]

Meh, let Nintendo have their moment.

Sony's used to being the one pushing people around in this industry, its nice for a change to have them be humbled a bit and take a distant no.2 role in their home territory to boot.

Last year when Sony announced PSP would be about $200 USD equivalent in Japan, people thought the DS would be DOA in Japan ... what the DS has done this year over there is unprecidented.

It's really reinvigorated the entire Japanese game market, without question. We haven't seens sales like this out of Japan in a loooooooooooong time.

Not even Playstation 1 or 2 have ever sold over 500k in a non-launch week in Japan, let alone over 600k.

 

[The Faceless Master]

I agree with what you're saying. The thing is, EVERYONE was predicting that the PSP would mop the floor with the DS, and that this would (really, we meant it this time) be the downfall of Nintendo. No one expected the DS to do nearly this well... people would have expected it to merely "keep up" with the PSP from day 1.

Basically, people are so surprised that they can't help but focus on Nintendo's unexpected success. A lot of people thought their whole talk about non-games was a load of BS, but they've proven to be exactly correct so far.

What Nintendo is doing has the potential to change the gaming industry, even if they aren't #1 in sales worldwide. The success of the DS and its non-games in Japan, coupled with the (expected) transfer of that success to the Revolution, will encourage Japanese developers to embrace new control schemes and new styles of games. And I think we can all agree that, even though Japan may not be the overall largest gaming market, it still has the most power when it comes to game development and publishing. So, if Nintendo succeeds in Japan, then the japanese game development community and game industry may also change along with them, which will change the entire global gaming industry due to the power of Japanese developers and publishers.

That's why I think people are so focussed on Nintendo's success and why it has GAF in a frenzy.

uh, have you just been skipping the DS vs PSP threads the past couple years? *many* people at GAF said the DS would win handily

 

[soundwave05]

uh, have you just been skipping the DS vs PSP threads the past couple years? *many* people at GAF said the DS would win handily

Not really a year ago, when Sony announced the PSP price in Japan, most people on this board stated the DS was finished.

Even I thought they were in big trouble.

The critics have kinda shut up the past few months though because they've really had no choice. You can't argue with sales numbers like that.

It's shifted from "Nintendo is doomed, PSP will overtake the portable market just like the PSOne did to the N64!" to "GTA and Winning Eleven will kill the DS", now to a more sombre "well PSP can still come back! Big price cuts in 2006! It's selling well to a different demographic!" etc.

 

[John Harker]

Now show me Secret of Evermore, Vandal Hearts, Kartia, Zombies ate my Neighbor, Super Mario RPG, Final Fantasy Tactics 2 for the DS and we have all we need in one little space.

Now put them online, and we wont even need a next gen for another 5 years or so.

 

[xaosslug]

At this point, FFVII-IX could just as easily end up on the DS, so who the fuck knows. DS is really kicking the snot out of the PSP in Japan and don't think Square-Enix hasn't noticed.

We know Pokemon is coming and we know where that's going.

I don't think Sony can eat massive losses on the PSP with the PS3 coming out at the same time, I can see a $199 price drop, but beyond that, is getting into wishful thinking territory.

i think it's wishful thinking to speculate on what Sony can and can't afford to eat chashflow-wise, unless you're a Sony-employed accountant. we just don't know.

 

[soundwave05]

i think it's wishful thinking to speculate on what Sony can and can't afford to eat chashflow-wise, unless you're a Sony-employed accountant. we just don't know.

We know they're going to take heavy losses on the PS3, and knowing MS, they'll probably start triggering a price war next year.

If they could cut the price so easily this year, why didn't they do it? North America could badly have used a price cut instead of the Gigapak.

 

[xaosslug]

We know they're going to take heavy losses on the PS3, and knowing MS, they'll probably start triggering a price war next year.

If they could cut the price so easily this year, why didn't they do it? North America could badly have used a price cut instead of the Gigapak.

umm, because it's selling? don't tell me if you were selling something on Ebay that was in some form of (it is one of THE tech gadgets this Christmas season) demand you would premium price it just to sell it fast. why low price when it sells fine high? does that make sense?

 

[borghe]

i think it's wishful thinking to speculate on what Sony can and can't afford to eat chashflow-wise, unless you're a Sony-employed accountant. we just don't know.

actually we do. sony is a public company. and if you have been following sony electronics financials, you would know that they aren't doing spectacular. not horrible, but what soundwave05 says really is right. There is no way SEL/SCEI can afford to be losing major money on TWO systems right now. Sony will need the PSP to be self sufficient by the time PS3 comes out. And with a tie ratio of still around 2:1 and assuming a high $10 licensing fee per game, that means Sony can roughly at best lose $20 per system on PSP. I highly doubt they have cut costs enough over the last year to not only break even, but be able to sustain a $50 price cut on top of that.

you said it yourself (or I think it was you). Sony is in this to make money, not to say "WE WIN". You don't make money by cutting the price on a system that's already selling well if the system is barely on the border of breaking even.

My guess at this point is that sony will cut the price as soon as they can afford to, and it won't likely be prompted by anything Nintendo does. I also don't see it being cut anytime before summer. Knowing that they were losing money on PSP at the start, I don't see them having been able to lower costs by at least 12%, if not (probably) more, in the course of just over a year.

 

[xaosslug]

if this is referring to me, then it is in fact you who is calling the PSP a failure. All I am saying is that trends are pretty much set. How PSP and DS are selling is likely to be how they sell here on out with little fluctuation. Nowhere have I said PSP is a failure. It is you who is saying I am saying it is a failure, because I am saying it likely won't outsell DS. It is you who is getting fairly defensive (with blind "YOU WAIT AND SEE"'s) when being told this.

If PSP manages to outsell DS worldwide, so be it. But at this point that would literally be a first in the history of video games. Hell, if it even just breaks its trend set from its first year of sales that would be a first in the history of video games.

what? why are you using quotation marks? i never said that, and i never used all caps. don't put words in my posts.

 

[soundwave05]

Actually PSP/DS sales aren't *that* impressive in North America.

As people have mentioned, 350k or thereabouts is GameCube-territory for North America.

GBA outsold both of them in November combined ... that audience is more likely to go DS than PSP in 2006, with DS going to $99 and Pokemon coming out, but that's just a hunch.

 

[xaosslug]

actually we do. sony is a public company. and if you have been following sony electronics financials, you would know that they aren't doing spectacular. not horrible, but what soundwave05 says really is right. There is no way SEL/SCEI can afford to be losing major money on TWO systems right now. Sony will need the PSP to be self sufficient by the time PS3 comes out. And with a tie ratio of still around 2:1 and assuming a high $10 licensing fee per game, that means Sony can roughly at best lose $20 per system on PSP. I highly doubt they have cut costs enough over the last year to not only break even, but be able to sustain a $50 price cut on top of that.

you said it yourself (or I think it was you). Sony is in this to make money, not to say "WE WIN". You don't make money by cutting the price on a system that's already selling well if the system is barely on the border of breaking even.

My guess at this point is that sony will cut the price as soon as they can afford to, and it won't likely be prompted by anything Nintendo does. I also don't see it being cut anytime before summer. Knowing that they were losing money on PSP at the start, I don't see them having been able to lower costs by at least 12%, if not (probably) more, in the course of just over a year.

don't think i ever said that... ::shugs::

but again, says who? seriously? they are not going bankrupt, you make it sound like they're bound by budget, which they are not. not the gaming devision, at least. you really shouldn't plan that victory party just yet.

 

[Fuzzy]

Sorry I'm late with these replies, I had to catch up on this thread.

http://www.everythingandnothing.org.uk/vg/dspsp.php

It has the correct DS numbers so I guess the PSP 140k numbers are correct also.

Lol, that's just my guess so don't take it too seriously.

See ioi, when you put guesses on the site without saying so it confuses people.

What's with all the people in this thread being "offended" by sales estimates all of a sudden? Does it hurt you in some way? This isn't even something new.

It hurts me. When it comes time for me to guess December NPD numbers people won't believe me.

 

[jarrod]

yes, i'm talking CGI cinemas. and, though impressive in their own right and field, not on the same level as say FFXII's opening cinema, IMO. i <3 RG, by-the-by.

i am not a moron! name calling ain't cool, dude.

What does FFXII have anything to do with this?

Let me lay this out for you. New big budget Sony RPGs nearly always sell really well. Level 5 is now known as the Dragon Quest developer, bringing that association with them. Nobody in their right mind should've guessed <200k sales for Rogue Galaxy... in fact people likely should've been expecting a bit more than what it managed. Like 400-500k. It's not doing badly... but it's also not doing outstandingly great considering it's budget, scope and pedigree. I'd say it's really on the lower end of "expected".

What should Sony be worrying about?

The very real possibility of it's ambitious Japanese support drying up, similar to Dreamcast and GameCube before it. Japan has always been PlayStation's strongpoint, with unheralded Japanese support and software diversity. Japan's also famously single plaform minded, proven to overwhelingly follow the market leader.

So what happens who you take a PlayStation and subtract it's unparalleled Japanese development? You get an Xbox.

Japanese software just isn't selling on PSP post launch, in any region actually. Sony really needs to do something and soon.

 

[Kseutron]

Not really a year ago, when Sony announced the PSP price in Japan, most people on this board stated the DS was finished.

Even I thought they were in big trouble.

The critics have kinda shut up the past few months though because they've really had no choice. You can't argue with sales numbers like that.

It's shifted from "Nintendo is doomed, PSP will overtake the portable market just like the PSOne did to the N64!" to "GTA and Winning Eleven will kill the DS", now to a more sombre "well PSP can still come back! Big price cuts in 2006! It's selling well to a different demographic!" etc.

Can someone post that good old "who wants to play pokemon Dash ?" with one guy holding a DS and 3 other guys holding a PSP around the table ?

YES, one year ago when the PSP launched in JAPAN people in GAF were all like "SELL UR DS ITS ALL OVER". The PSP was (and still is) so sexy, powerful, cheap (considering its technology), had some pretty good launch games (ridge racer, lumines, minna no golf...) and was nowhere to be found... 500$ PSP on ebay, remember ?

Well this time seems really really far far away now, and many people including myself never thought it would end this way. Of course things might change in the future, but god damn... They still can lower the DS price, redesign it and Pokemon is not event out Yet. Online Pokemon people !. FF3, New mario bros, Nintendogs 2 (they'd be crazy not to launch it), zelda, Seiken detsetsu, ETC will also strenghten the DS's position in Japan and it seems at the very least to be on par with the PSP in EU and USA right now. Iwata must be smiling cuz Nintendo is really winning its bet with the DS as we speack.

 

[ghostlyjoe]

Actually PSP/DS sales aren't *that* impressive in North America.

As people have mentioned, 350k or thereabouts is GameCube-territory for North America.

GBA outsold both of them in November combined ... that audience is more likely to go DS than PSP in 2006, with DS going to $99 and Pokemon coming out, but that's just a hunch.

So you're speculating that DS is gonna run away with this thing in the next year or two? Even if it does, that certainly doesn't mean the PSP can't turn profits -- or even thrive -- in a distant 3rd place (behind GBA, DS). At the current rate of adoption, what kind of lifetime figures are we looking at?

 

[soundwave05]

PSP games are just too friggin' expensive.

Right now I'd be hard pressed to buy more than two per year tops.

When the games are the same price as console games, it kinda just flips on a different mentality in your head ... kinda like "do I *really* need this? Should I just buy a console game instead?".

 

[GaimeGuy]

don't think i ever said that... ::shugs::

but again, says who? seriously? they are not going bankrupt, you make it sound like they're bound by budget, which they are not. not the gaming devision, at least. you really shouldn't plan that victory party just yet.

you know... about a year or two ago, it was revealed that sony was over 50 billion dollars in debt, I think..

 

[Dalthien]

It hurts me. When it comes time for me to guess December NPD numbers people won't believe me.

I'll still believe you.

 

[soundwave05]

So you're speculating that DS is gonna run away with this thing in the next year or two? Even if it does, that certainly doesn't mean the PSP can't turn profits -- or even thrive -- in a distant 3rd place (behind GBA, DS). At the current rate of adoption, what kind of lifetime figures are we looking at?

I never said the PSP wouldn't do well itself.

DS is just at an unprecidented level in Japan right now.

 

[Link]

yes, i'm talking CGI cinemas. and, though impressive in their own right and field, not on the same level as say FFXII's opening cinema, IMO. i <3 RG, by-the-by.

Are you actually suggesting that graphics have anything to do with sales? In Japan? You really have no right to be arguing here if you do.

EDIT -

It hurts me. When it comes time for me to guess December NPD numbers people won't believe me.

I was asking if it was hurting the people that are "offended" by the people giving educated guesses.

 

[GaimeGuy]

So you're speculating that DS is gonna run away with this thing in the next year or two? Even if it does, that certainly doesn't mean the PSP can't turn profits -- or even thrive -- in a distant 3rd place (behind GBA, DS). At the current rate of adoption, what kind of lifetime figures are we looking at?

At the current rate of adoption? Probably 25 million hardware sales, at best, worldwide for the PSP, assuming it lasts 5 years.

 

[cicero]

You bet your ass I'm bitter. An original IP by Sega that's legitimately good falls into an abyss while a deluge of non-game poppycock like fucking ANIMAL CROSSING and TAMAGOTCHI sell boatloads and you guys just cum all over the walls. Nevertheless, I'm treading on touchy ground here and should take my leave.


Enjoy the victory...bitches.

Drinky? Is that you?!??

 

[soundwave05]

Nah I see pretty high totals for the PSP ... 40-50 million quite handily I think.

 

[Fuzzy]

PSP games are just too friggin' expensive.

Right now I'd be hard pressed to buy more than two per year tops.

When the games are the same price as console games, it kinda just flips on a different mentality in your head ... kinda like "do I *really* need this? Should I just buy a console game instead?".

Don't worry you'll fell better when buying next gen titles for $10 US more than they are now. :lol

So you're speculating that DS is gonna run away with this thing in the next year or two? Even if it does, that certainly doesn't mean the PSP can't turn profits -- or even thrive -- in a distant 3rd place (behind GBA, DS). At the current rate of adoption, what kind of lifetime figures are we looking at?

GCN anyone?