Meet the Fantastic Four

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Mr. Nobody said:
Nope this is just exactly like port begging, the only difference is that studio-begging isn't a bannable offense in the OT.

But you're absolutely right, the kind of posts or threads that ask for the rights to revert to Marvel are just as annoying as a Mega Man and Metroid Prime thread.
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Yeah, I'm not denying it gets repetitive and annoying, I'm just saying it's not nearly as base and petty as "Oh, this game looks cool. Not on PS4? Well that's lame, it should be."
 
TDLink said:
It happened only two years ago with Daredevil.
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Because Daredevil is seen as a less valuable franchise than Fantastic Four. Which Marvel themselves have basically shown that they agree with by bringing him back as a TV series and not another movie. Daredevil was a flop, I believe. Elektra (which I believe is the same license) was an even bigger one. Whomever owned the rights probably thought that no matter how much money we put into this franchise, it's ceiling as a major motion picture just isn't worth the money to keep making movies in perpetuity (or rush the movie that we're currently making into production and end up with another movie that might barely make its money back). For as "B level" as the FF are in the Marvel Universe, I think everyone would agree that they are a more valuable property (i.e. have shown they can make more money) than Daredevil or Ghost Rider or Punisher.
 
BobbyRoberts said:
Nobody sets out to make a bad movie. The executives who greenlight films don't make the movies themselves, and they certainly don't hire people they think are going to make them a BAD one. They may not care whether or not the movie is GREAT, but it is not in their interests that the people they hire turn out a noncommercial piece of shit.

Many of the people port-begging don't seem to understand this. They argue as if the executives themselves are writing the scripts and lining up the shots and cutting the flick.

Fox doesn't hire Josh Trank off of Chronicle, and let him hire Michael B. Jordan to be Johnny because they want to make a bad movie. That's absolutely not the aim. That's not a studio who is trying to take the path of least resistance towards total mediocrity.
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I understand that. I don't think they are setting out to make a bad movie. I do think they don't care whether or not the movie is great, just like you said here. In my last post I said they are making a new movie (supposedly) rather than letting the rights revert because they want to increase the property's value for a higher sell price or to make successful sequels.

However, even though FOX does not aim to make a bad film does not mean they are without fault. I'm aware the executives at FOX have no creative control over the film. Another difference they share with Marvel Studios...where an executive (Kevin Feige) is in fact presiding over each film the studio produces. Part of this difference, this lack of oversight, is why some of these puzzling creative decisions are being made. Sure, some executive at FOX is not changing the F4's backstories and trying to make them more "grounded." However, some executive(s) at FOX are in fact allowing it to happen. They trust Josh Trank and the decisions he is making due to his previous work on Chronicle and are letting him run without oversight. That's a great thing for a studio to do with a good Director/Writer. In this case, from the sound of where things are going, it may not have been the wisest move. Time will tell. Right now from the outside of the project it seems like a trainwreck.
 
hodayathink said:
Because Daredevil is seen as a less valuable franchise than Fantastic Four. Which Marvel themselves have basically shown that they agree with by bringing him back as a TV series and not another movie. Daredevil was a flop, I believe. Elektra (which I believe is the same license) was an even bigger one. Whomever owned the rights probably thought that no matter how much money we put into this franchise, it's ceiling as a major motion picture just isn't worth the money to keep making movies in perpetuity (or rush the movie that we're currently making into production and end up with another movie that might barely make its money back). For as "B level" as the FF are in the Marvel Universe, I think everyone would agree that they are a more valuable property (i.e. have shown they can make more money) than Daredevil or Ghost Rider or Punisher.
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Iron Man, Blade, Captain America, Thor, and Hulk were also movie licenses that Marvel regained the rights to. All the movies made thus far were properties that were previously licensed to other studios. It is silly to call it port begging if that is the only way they have made any movies. Even Black Widow was licensed out.
 
TDLink said:
Right now from the outside of the project it seems like a trainwreck.
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Hey, I get that. I understand entirely. And there's a TON of movies that have looked like trainwrecks that ended up being good. Some even great. And there's some trainwrecks that ended up being the "Buddy" sketch by Adam Sandler through and through, all idiocy and flaming crashed cars. :)

But what we don't know about Fantastic Four right now VASTLY outnumbers the factoids we do know, and a lot of people's judgment is unfairly colored by this romanticization of Marvel and their corporate genius.

Which is leading to the port-begging that is really fucking annoying :)

numble said:
It is silly to call it port begging if that is the only way they have made any movies. Even Black Widow was licensed out.
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You don't seem to actually know what you're talking about, which make sense considering you're still trying to defend the port-begging.

They licensed their properties out because they thought they could make money on them. The narrative that Marvel only sold the rights to these properties because they were desperate is bullshit. They sold the rights to their most valuable characters because they thought it'd be a nice secondary line of income if it actually worked, and they wouldn't have to incur much risk on their end to collect on it.

The people who made those initial deals gave as much of a fuck about the characters and their stories as the executives at these studios do now.
 
hodayathink said:
Because Daredevil is seen as a less valuable franchise than Fantastic Four. Which Marvel themselves have basically shown that they agree with by bringing him back as a TV series and not another movie. Daredevil was a flop, I believe. Elektra (which I believe is the same license) was an even bigger one. Whomever owned the rights probably thought that no matter how much money we put into this franchise, it's ceiling as a major motion picture just isn't worth the money to keep making movies in perpetuity (or rush the movie that we're currently making into production and end up with another movie that might barely make its money back). For as "B level" as the FF are in the Marvel Universe, I think everyone would agree that they are a more valuable property (i.e. have shown they can make more money) than Daredevil or Ghost Rider or Punisher.
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I think Daredevil is on TV/Netflix rather than a film because that's simply how Marvel is wanting to expand their universe. They can't release that many films a year and want to rapidly expand what they're doing, television is their obvious option there. They are just replicating what they did with Avengers by doing Defenders on TV. I don't think that necesarilly indicates that Daredevil is a smaller property than any of the ones they have made or are making films for. It is just the direction they are choosing to go with. Now, Daredevil himself also typically has smaller scale stories that are less, well, fantastic. That inherently lends itself to the television format better than something like Iron Man which would require a large special effects budget and likely come across as cheap when spread over 13 hours. I don't think that means Daredevil is less valuable though.

I disagree with the notion that the Fantastic Four are more valuable. They are a bit more requiring of a larger budget due to the special effects needed for their powers...but that doesn't make them more valuable. Like I said before, they didn't get a third film for a reason. A new film is being made (supposedly) now for a reason. Neither of those reasons are because the property made them a ton money in the past.

The Fantastic Four are not Spider-Man or the X-Men. People just honestly don't care about them. Even if Marvel gets them back, pretty much everyone agrees it's unlikely that we'll actually see a Fantastic Four film out of them.
 
TDLink said:
I think Daredevil is on TV/Netflix rather than a film because that's simply how Marvel is wanting to expand their universe. They can't release that many films a year and want to rapidly expand what they're doing, television is their obvious option there. They are just replicating what they did with Avengers by doing Defenders on TV. I don't think that necesarilly indicates that Daredevil is a smaller property than any of the ones they have made or are making films for. It is just the direction they are choosing to go with. Now, Daredevil himself also typically has smaller scale stories that are less, well, fantastic. That inherently lends itself to the television format better than something like Iron Man which would require a large special effects budget and likely come across as cheap when spread over 13 hours. I don't think that means Daredevil is less valuable though.

I disagree with the notion that the Fantastic Four are more valuable. They are a bit more requiring of a larger budget due to the special effects needed for their powers...but that doesn't make them more valuable. Like I said before, they didn't get a third film for a reason. A new film is being made (supposedly) now for a reason. Neither of those reasons are because the property made them a ton money in the past.

The Fantastic Four are not Spider-Man or the X-Men. People just honestly don't care about them. Even if Marvel gets them back, pretty much everyone agrees it's unlikely that we'll actually see a Fantastic Four film out of them.
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There are some really good FF stories Marvel can adapt. The last two movies sucked, hence the apathy. They have a great cast, especially when you get the kids in, and they have the best villains when they are done right. It just a matter of picking the right story and getting a good cast, something Marvel has proven they can do.
 
James Woods said:
Marvel is never gonna do shit with Blade, brehs :(
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If the Defenders quartet does well, I could see Marvel going a bit bolder and establishing a Marvel Knights line for Netflix or DTV. Have some lower budget series or TV shows for stuff like Blade, The Punisher, etc.
 
Part of the reason fantastic four is so unpopular is because of the two horrible movies. For the non-comic reading public, that's all they have to go on. Fantastic Four, while sometimes hokey, is one of the major pillars of the marvel universe alongside x-men, spider-man, and the avengers. A really well done fantastic four movie would do well. Technically the incredible already pulled it off.
 
BobbyRoberts said:
They licensed their properties out because they thought they could make money on them. The narrative that Marvel only sold the rights to these properties because they were desperate is bullshit. They sold the rights to their most valuable characters because they thought it'd be a nice secondary line of income if it actually worked, and they wouldn't have to incur much risk on their end to collect on it.

The people who made those initial deals gave as much of a fuck about the characters and their stories as the executives at these studios do now.
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Yeah, that's not really the case. Marvel was going bankrupt in the 90s. They sold the rights because, like you said, it was a low risk secondary line of income. Those initial sales and then the success of the Blade, X-Men, and Spider-Man films are what kept the company afloat and then gave them the resurgence that allowed Marvel Studios to even become a thing.

Also, even though Marvel cares about money first and foremost, I do believe the people running Marvel Studios (particularly Kevin Feige) actually does care about the properties. Watching the films that have been put out these last few years, the care is obvious. And that care is there because it creates even more cash flow for Marvel.

BLACKLAC said:
What can they even do right now?

Not many(any?) black action stars with a martial arts background. And lets not forget the swagger.
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There are always unknowns. That definitely is not the reason. He just doesn't factor into their current plans. He probably has high TV potential depending on how these Defenders shows go.
 
Affeinvasion said:
Part of the reason fantastic four is so unpopular is because of the two horrible movies.
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They were unpopular before that. The films didn't really change it one way or the other.

TDLink said:
Yeah, that's not really the case. Marvel was going bankrupt in the 90s. They sold the rights because, like you said, it was a low risk secondary line of income. Those initial sales and then the success of the Blade, X-Men, and Spider-Man films are what kept the company afloat and then gave them the resurgence that allowed Marvel Studios to even become a thing..
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No, that is the case. It's been pointed out in multiple articles before, and pretty thoroughly in "Marvel Comics: the Untold Story" - which is a REALLY good read.

Marvel's bankruptcy problems weren't ever going to be solved by the selling of their character's film rights, and they weren't. The movie/tv rights had always been seen as a secondary hustle to the publication side of things, a pipe-dream pursued by the more adventurous at the company.
 
B-Dubs said:
There are some really good FF stories Marvel can adapt. The last two movies sucked, hence the apathy. They have a great cast, especially when you get the kids in, and they have the best villains when they are done right. It just a matter of picking the right story and getting a good cast, something Marvel has proven they can do.
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Affeinvasion said:
Part of the reason fantastic four is so unpopular is because of the two horrible movies. For the non-comic reading public, that's all they have to go on. Fantastic Four, while sometimes hokey, is one of the major pillars of the marvel universe alongside x-men, spider-man, and the avengers. A really well done fantastic four movie would do well. Technically the incredible already pulled it off.
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Sure, they could. I mean, if they can make a Guardians of the Galaxy movie of course they can make Fantastic Four. The thing is, Marvel already has a slate of films set up through 2028. And it's probably pretty solidified at this point at least through the next 5 years. If they get the property back this year that doesn't leave any room for a F4 movie any time soon...making it pretty unlikely that anything is used other than the villains for things like their cosmic universe (if GotG takes off).
 
TDLink said:
I disagree with the notion that the Fantastic Four are more valuable. They are a bit more requiring of a larger budget due to the special effects needed for their powers...but that doesn't make them more valuable. Like I said before, they didn't get a third film for a reason. A new film is being made (supposedly) now for a reason. Neither of those reasons are because the property made them a ton money in the past.

The Fantastic Four are not Spider-Man or the X-Men. People just honestly don't care about them. Even if Marvel gets them back, pretty much everyone agrees it's unlikely that we'll actually see a Fantastic Four film out of them.
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Notice I said "seen as" a lesser franchise, not "is" one. Per Wikipedia, the Daredevil movie grossed $180 million on a $75 million budget. The first Fantastic Four movie did $330 million on a $100 million budget. The second grossed $290 on a $130 million budget. And both of of those FF movies weren't seen as very good, with the second one being outright panned. Those numbers by themselves are enough for any Hollywood exec to see FF as a more valuable franchise.
 
Mr. Nobody said:
Do you own the Evanescence soundtrack?
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Nah but I listened to their music on the radio. Also I won't be judged. That film got two thumbs up and a bunch of three out of four star reviews that I read. It was only the stink of Gigli that tainted that shit. Deal with it.

EDIT: Wait I did own the Daredevil soundtrack. Whatever I don't give a fuck. In fact I am gonna go listen to that Finger Eleven song on Spotify.
 
James Woods said:
Nah but I listened to their music on the radio. Also I won't be judged. That film got two thumbs up and a bunch of three out of four star reviews that I read. It was only the stink of Gigli that tainted that shit. Deal with it.

EDIT: Wait I did own the Daredevil soundtrack. Whatever I don't give a fuck. In fact I am gonna go listen to that Finger Eleven song on Spotify.
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It really wasn't that terrible. I somewhat enjoyed it when it released. It was nowhere near as bad as say Spider-man 3 or X3.
 
JdFoX187 said:
Everyone knows WHY people want the property to revert to Disney. The problem is every one of these threads devolves into the same complaints. It's not just F4. There are people in the ASM2 threads complaining that Marvel Studios would make a better movie and Sony is simply whoring it out with no care in the world. Go into an X-Men: DoFP thread and you have people complaining about how Marvel Studios would make a true authentic X-Men movie with "real" costumes and badass Cyclops.

There is very little hope this movie will be anything other than complete shit -- especially with all of the issues in getting it off the ground. But the deck is stacked against it from the onset because people are already convinced unless it's Marvel Studios, it's going to be shit and it should revert back.
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This reply basically ignores everything from the post it is a reply to. You say everyone knows why fans want the rights to revert back, then ignore that many fans want the rights to revert back not for better F4 movies, but for the other characters that are included in the rights. So they can be included with other movies where it makes sense for them to appear.
 
Mr. Nobody said:
Uh oh a couple months!

Wow so maybe if like we send a really super special letter to Fox they'll see how much the fans want it back at Marvel and they'll change their minds.

Maybe make a youtube tribute too about comic book fans thinking Marvel is the right choice!

Golly Gee Willickers I'll bet it'll work!



Now I remember why I stay out of most gaming side threads.




Nah, but posts saying AWWWW JUST GIVE IT BACK TO MARVEL ALREADY! PLS! are pretty stupid.
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And how is your post any better?
 
Prototype said:
The casting is terrible. Like Ben Afflick as batman terrible.
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Iv given this some though and I think hes going to nail it. He looks good enough and hes a good actor even though he stared in some bad movies, but by no means were the movies bad from his acting. They were just bad movies.
 
I'd argue Daredevil has a much better chance at working in a serialized format.
 
Dead Man said:
Yes, you are a precious individual snowflake and everyone else is part of the hive.
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well aren't you a cute little thing trying to get at me.

You can always predict someone port begging in the next FF/X-men/Spider-man threads much like you can always tell someone is going to post about megaman in a capcom thread.
 
Mr. Nobody said:
well aren't you a cute little thing trying to get at me.

You can always predict someone port begging in the next FF/X-men/Spider-man threads much like you can always tell someone is going to post about megaman in a capcom thread.
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This isn't port begging.

Its not like nintendo owns zelda but can't make zelda games because terrible business deals and Sony makes shit ones. This is a hostage situation
 
Mr. Nobody said:
well aren't you a cute little thing trying to get at me.

You can always predict someone port begging in the next FF/X-men/Spider-man threads much like you can always tell someone is going to post about megaman in a capcom thread.
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1. This isn't port begging

2. You can predict it, but not which poster it will be and if they have ever talked about it before. NOBODY is going into every single thread and hoping for the rights to revert. A series of individuals is doing that. You said you post was better because you weren't going into every single thread, the implication being that everyone else was. Which is one of the sillier positions to hold.

3. You are kind of shitting up the thread with this bullshit.
 
Dead Man said:
1. This isn't port begging

2. You can predict it, but not which poster it will be and if they have ever talked about it before. NOBODY is going into every single thread and hoping for the rights to revert. A series of individuals is doing that. You said you post was better because you weren't going into every single thread, the implication being that everyone else was. Which is one of the sillier positions to hold.

3. You are kind of shitting up the thread with this bullshit.
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That depends in a way cause this thread isn't even about the FF movie that much anymore

Yeah, I suppose it's wrong of me to generalize, I can't predict which posters it will be by name, I'm not blaming anyone.

I'm just saying it's a really annoying trend that DOES shit up threads on the movies that aren't marvel studio oriented. I like to think the port begging comparison is apt still.

Or hostage situation whatever. I can't say it's a hive mind cause it's a lot of people spread across the internet feel the same about the properties not tying in with the rest of this newly establish marvel cinematic universe.

Whatever. Chances are I'm going to get banned again. So I don't care dead, it's not bullshit to me, well at least this post isn't . I'm calling it how I see it. I do apologize for my mocking posts earlier. They're not right.
 
Mr. Nobody said:
That depends in a way cause this thread isn't even about the FF movie that much anymore

Yeah, I suppose it's wrong of me to generalize, I can't predict which posters it will be by name, I'm not blaming anyone.

I'm just saying it's a really annoying trend that DOES shit up threads on the movies that aren't marvel studio oriented. I like to think the port begging comparison is apt still.

Or hostage situation whatever. I can't say it's a hive mind cause it's a lot of people spread across the internet feel the same about the properties not tying in with the rest of this newly establish marvel cinematic universe.

Whatever. Chances are I'm going to get banned again. So I don't care dead, it's not bullshit to me, well at least this post isn't . I'm calling it how I see it. I do apologize for my mocking posts earlier. They're not right.
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No need for bans (not backseat modding, don't ban me!) and I get the frustration with threads full of comment x or y or z. It's just not really analogous to port begging for me, just a lot of people wanting the cohesive universe they know from the comics. A lot of people do whine about Fox not being Marvel, but I think most of the issues with licensing come from the splintered nature of the stories which is the opposite of the comics.
 
As long as we're poking holes in analogies for not being 1:1 comparisons, calling it a "hostage situation" is just as silly as "port begging." Fox isn't some malicious force, keeping the F4 away from Marvel because they feed on the tears of internet fanboys. They're a company that purchased an IP and are now using that IP in a way they hope will be profitable, as is their right. Since they own it. Cause Marvel sold the movie rights to them. It's theirs.
 
ReiGun said:
As long as we're poking holes in analogies for not being 1:1 comparisons, calling it a "hostage situation" is just as silly as "port begging." Fox isn't some malicious force, keeping the F4 away from Marvel because they feed on the tears of internet fanboys. They're a company that purchased an IP and are now using that IP in a way they hope will be profitable, as is their right. Since they own it. Cause Marvel sold the movie rights to them. It's theirs.
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Except that they weren't doing anything with the IP until the last minute. It is looking like another FF'94 situation, which is a scummy thing to do considering they seemed to have no plans to do anything until their rights were about to expire. They are taking their ball and going home despite not being interested in sports.
 
Okay, I can understand why they wanted to have a black guy in there, but why not have Ben or Reed be black instead? Johnny and Sue being siblings is one part of the backstory that shouldn't be changed IMO.
 
SpoonyBard said:
Okay, I can understand why they wanted to have a black guy in there, but why not have Ben or Reed be black instead? Johnny and Sue being siblings is one part of the backstory that shouldn't be changed IMO.
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Trank is good friends with Michael B. Jordan. They worked together on Chronicle. That's why Johnny Storm is black.
 
SpoonyBard said:
Okay, I can understand why they wanted to have a black guy in there, but why not have Ben or Reed be black instead? Johnny and Sue being siblings is one part of the backstory that shouldn't be changed IMO.
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Because maybe they're not casting black actors just for the sake of being black and Jordan is a better fit for Johnny than anyone else. And who says they won't be siblings anymore?
 
Trank going from watching 'Chronicle' is a director to watch. The cast is extremely solid. the writer is OK, I'm looking forward to the movie. I know people hate that Marvel can't have the FF in the MCU, but it is what it is now.

Hey if the film bombs we can probably expect Fox to 'lend' Marvel studios the FF.
 
Dabanton said:
Trank going from watching 'Chronicle' is a director to watch. The cast is extremely solid. the writer is OK, I'm looking forward to the movie. I know people hate that Marvel can't have the FF in the MCU, but it is what it is now.

Hey if the film bombs we can probably expect Fox to 'lend' Marvel studios the FF.
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Same here people don't seem to recognize how much better this cast is from the previous films they make not match the age of the traditional team but this film is obviously taking some inspirations from the Ultimate line of comics especially with their origin which fits the grounded take everyone states when describing this film. If the film truly a mix between Chronicle and The Rami Spider-man films I think it'll work out fine.
 
BobbyRoberts said:
2012 is not "last minute." That's when Fox picked Trank to direct this thing. Word of Michael B. Jordan as Johnny Storm first started leaking around May of 2013.
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They only announced the full cast two months ago, and at the time not even all of them were signed on. One of the main stars still hasn't seen a script or costume as of less than a week ago. Directors get attached to projects in advance all the time without any real progress being made. Just look at the directors of the Deadpool movie. They may have vaguely worked on it as early as two years ago, but from what we can tell they havent done much until recently.
 
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